The Heresy of Perfectionism
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T
see where this he**** leads?
downgrading Christ, downgrading the Law and exhalting man.
Downgrading Christ?????. Huh?????
Did Jesus Christ not call himself the Son of Man??. And sorry, how does calling Christ a man like us downgrade him. Considering the fact that i meant when HE WAS ON EARTH AND NOT NOW WHEN HE IS IN HEAVEN.
Was Jesus a Spirit while he was on earth????
Zone plz cut it off
downgrading Christ, downgrading the Law and exhalting man.
Downgrading Christ?????. Huh?????
Did Jesus Christ not call himself the Son of Man??. And sorry, how does calling Christ a man like us downgrade him. Considering the fact that i meant when HE WAS ON EARTH AND NOT NOW WHEN HE IS IN HEAVEN.
Was Jesus a Spirit while he was on earth????
Zone plz cut it off
Ok. Paul called himself *wretched* because he was trying to be humble. Living a sinless life doesn't make you automatically Proud!. Except ofcourse you are trying to show it off. And even after you claim to live a sinless life, you have to keep struggling for higher places, because the battle against the flesh is one you keep fighting till the day you die. The fact that somebody now lives sinless doesn't make him Perfect!.
Jesus Christ was sinless, he was a man like me and you on earth!, he was tempted like me and you (and yet without sin). he is the example we are supposed to follow as believers!. So We Can Be Sinless Like Him.....
IT IS DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.. (By the way Jesus Christ been sinless didn't make him Proud)
Pleas about Johns' word, i think you need to read the remaining part of that scripture to understand what he meant. And stop making that part of the scripture sound like what it isn't[/quote]
i love ur heart and words brother but it only looks good in books,lets live it b4 we speak it or else we would be reguarded as hypocryte, cuz we are judeged by every words we speak..bible says our righteousness is like filthy rags b4 him so yeah..grown in holiness, its awesum to seek his kingdom and his rightousness,grow in him,seek his face worship him,spend hrs wid him so that even wen u will fall u will know his mercy love and grace so that u can stand up,but if u say ur a perfect one day if u fall it will be much harder to get up again cuz u will think that standard to be too high..
Just an advice froma person whos fallen b4
Jesus Christ was sinless, he was a man like me and you on earth!, he was tempted like me and you (and yet without sin). he is the example we are supposed to follow as believers!. So We Can Be Sinless Like Him.....
IT IS DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.. (By the way Jesus Christ been sinless didn't make him Proud)
Pleas about Johns' word, i think you need to read the remaining part of that scripture to understand what he meant. And stop making that part of the scripture sound like what it isn't
[/quote]i love ur heart and words brother but it only looks good in books,lets live it b4 we speak it or else we would be reguarded as hypocryte, cuz we are judeged by every words we speak..bible says our righteousness is like filthy rags b4 him so yeah..grown in holiness, its awesum to seek his kingdom and his rightousness,grow in him,seek his face worship him,spend hrs wid him so that even wen u will fall u will know his mercy love and grace so that u can stand up,but if u say ur a perfect one day if u fall it will be much harder to get up again cuz u will think that standard to be too high..
Just an advice froma person whos fallen b4
T
Ok. Paul called himself *wretched* because he was trying to be humble. Living a sinless life doesn't make you automatically Proud!. Except ofcourse you are trying to show it off. And even after you claim to live a sinless life, you have to keep struggling for higher places, because the battle against the flesh is one you keep fighting till the day you die. The fact that somebody now lives sinless doesn't make him Perfect!.
Jesus Christ was sinless, he was a man like me and you on earth!, he was tempted like me and you (and yet without sin). he is the example we are supposed to follow as believers!. So We Can Be Sinless Like Him.....
IT IS DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.. (By the way Jesus Christ been sinless didn't make him Proud)
Pleas about Johns' word, i think you need to read the remaining part of that scripture to understand what he meant. And stop making that part of the scripture sound like what it isn't
Jesus Christ was sinless, he was a man like me and you on earth!, he was tempted like me and you (and yet without sin). he is the example we are supposed to follow as believers!. So We Can Be Sinless Like Him.....
IT IS DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.. (By the way Jesus Christ been sinless didn't make him Proud)
Pleas about Johns' word, i think you need to read the remaining part of that scripture to understand what he meant. And stop making that part of the scripture sound like what it isn't
i love ur heart and words brother but it only looks good in books,lets live it b4 we speak it or else we would be reguarded as hypocryte, cuz we are judeged by every words we speak..bible says our righteousness is like filthy rags b4 him so yeah..grown in holiness, its awesum to seek his kingdom and his rightousness,grow in him,seek his face worship him,spend hrs wid him so that even wen u will fall u will know his mercy love and grace so that u can stand up,but if u say ur a perfect one day if u fall it will be much harder to get up again cuz u will think that standard to be too high..
Just an advice froma person whos fallen b4[/QUOTE]
lol @ youngprophet. Yes it looks good on paper, and i will do my own part to live this kind of life. Now i'm not saying i've reached there yet, i'm just saying PEOPLE who call themselves CHRISTIANS should STOP teaching that it is IMPOSSIBLE to live a SINLESS life
lol @ youngprophet. Yes it looks good on paper, and i will do my own part to live this kind of life. Now i'm not saying i've reached there yet, i'm just saying PEOPLE who call themselves CHRISTIANS should STOP teaching that it is IMPOSSIBLE to live a SINLESS life [/quote]
good boi will give u one quote
The more men pray, the less worldly they become. The less they pray, the more worldly they become. I am, of course, speaking of professing Christians at this point."
Leonard Ravenhill
[/quote]good boi will give u one quote
The more men pray, the less worldly they become. The less they pray, the more worldly they become. I am, of course, speaking of professing Christians at this point."
Leonard Ravenhill
see where this he**** leads?
downgrading Christ, downgrading the Law and exhalting man.
Downgrading Christ?????. Huh?????
Did Jesus Christ not call himself the Son of Man??. And sorry, how does calling Christ a man like us downgrade him. Considering the fact that i meant when HE WAS ON EARTH AND NOT NOW WHEN HE IS IN HEAVEN.
Was Jesus a Spirit while he was on earth????
Zone plz cut it off
downgrading Christ, downgrading the Law and exhalting man.
Downgrading Christ?????. Huh?????
Did Jesus Christ not call himself the Son of Man??. And sorry, how does calling Christ a man like us downgrade him. Considering the fact that i meant when HE WAS ON EARTH AND NOT NOW WHEN HE IS IN HEAVEN.
Was Jesus a Spirit while he was on earth????
Zone plz cut it off
if you do not understand God Incarnate, what can i say?
if you think you can be perfect, Jesus died for no reason.
most perfectionism beliefs come from charismatic experientialism.
if you're not involved in that, having had your sensitivity to the True Holy Spirit dulled, you'll figure it out soon enough....a good place to start is stop diminishing SIN by likening it to football or "shortcomings".
call it what it is, confess it, and turn from it. pretending you don't sin is a HORRIBLE delusion.
love you
zone.
God bless you Fire On The Altar and Cobus ..
Now eternally grateful, so Perfect was misunderstood right?. Maybe you just don't want to understand
the word Perfect as it was meant to mean in the bible because you're too Lazy to achieve it, or you are
Blinded by the lie that we can not live a Perfect, Sinless Life.
And zone if you bring up this thread a million times, I will be against you a million times..( Doesn't mean
we are not still buddies and i still have a lot of respect for you)..
..Now eternally grateful, so Perfect was misunderstood right?. Maybe you just don't want to understand
the word Perfect as it was meant to mean in the bible because you're too Lazy to achieve it, or you are
Blinded by the lie that we can not live a Perfect, Sinless Life.
And zone if you bring up this thread a million times, I will be against you a million times
..( Doesn't meanwe are not still buddies and i still have a lot of respect for you)..
Without getting off topic, and starting a new debate or discussion -
Let me mention a few things about your 'perfection' and as it pertains to salvation:
Do you use electricity (I mentioned the Amish - they never have). Do you realize tens of
thousands have lost their lives or have been displaced from their homes and sources of
life by one quick event in Japan? One event can lead to the death of tens of thousands
more in the US or elsewhere in the world.
Do you eat meat (I mentioned Vegans- they never have). Do you realize that 700
THOUSAND people die each year in the US from heart diseases and cancer that are
directly attributable to Red Meat, salt, fat, and sugar. The raising of animals for food, and
the associated waste of fertilizers, pesticides, herbicides, water, growth hormones,
antibiotics, di esel fuel (and waste), and the waste products of such animals is leading the
nation to disaster (UN and NOAA reports - recently pointing to the US as a Demon in such
things).
I mentioned Sugar - Diabetes is a major disease today, and directly attributable to sugar.
Ddo you know how many people suffer, cost the taxpayers BILLIONS of dollars, and enrich
and empower evil organizations such as Insurance and Drug companies and Doctor's
Associations?
Jeremiah called for repentance from the Christmas Tree -- I see excuses and
rationalization, but no awareness, insight or obedience. We can do whatever we want
today, Jesus nailed it all to the cross -- right? -- wrong!
This is NOT a call to perfectionism, or to asceticism. It is a call to awareness and
repentance, and the starting of a movement to minimalism, self denial, self control and
the sharing of these simple concepts with others. Since it's inception in the early 1970's,
the US has Never met the requirements of the Clean Air/Clean Water Act. This is also
directly attributable to consumption by both individuals and corporations. Recent
statistics from the Department of Health and Human Services, the CDC, and organizations
such as the American Lung Association and American Cancer Association show such
things are directly related to the literal 'salvation' of millions.
Jeremiah 8:6
I hearkened and heard, but they spake not aright: no man repented him of his
wickedness, saying, What have I done? every one turned to his course, as the horse
rusheth into the battle.
Matthew 11:20
Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because
they repented not:
Matthew 12:41
The men of Nineveh shall rise in judgment with this generation, and shall condemn it:
because they repented at the preaching of Jonas; and, behold, a greater than Jonas is
here.
Acts 11:18
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath
God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Acts 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where
to repent:
Revelation 3:19
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and
repent.
good boi will give u one quote
The more men pray, the less worldly they become. The less they pray, the more worldly they become. I am, of course, speaking of professing Christians at this point."
Leonard Ravenhill[/quote]
ther is another one of ma fev
"I would rather teach one man to pray than ten men to preach."
J. H. Jowett
The more men pray, the less worldly they become. The less they pray, the more worldly they become. I am, of course, speaking of professing Christians at this point."
Leonard Ravenhill[/quote]
ther is another one of ma fev
"I would rather teach one man to pray than ten men to preach."
J. H. Jowett
E
Amen. This is why this teaching is so dangerous and must be fought! I have seen many a man and woman who i thought were mature in Christ realize they can not live under this condition crash and burn because of it. or when a sin area they were hiding is exposed. they fall and never recover. (or if they do, they never mature)
I have also seen many a baby in christ never come to really know christ, because it does ot take long to realize you can not live under these conditions.
Christ fullfilled the law for salvation. He has not taken the law out of our hearts though. He still wants us to see his law as not damning, but for our benefit.
people want to place themselves back under law though. Paul taught against this heresy.
I have also seen many a baby in christ never come to really know christ, because it does ot take long to realize you can not live under these conditions.
Christ fullfilled the law for salvation. He has not taken the law out of our hearts though. He still wants us to see his law as not damning, but for our benefit.
people want to place themselves back under law though. Paul taught against this heresy.
T
Zone and the rest, you can really go on talking what you like. Really, i'm so done with this thread .. You can also believe what you want .. But before i leave, i'd like to say one thing
I'm not saying we have to be Perfect, saying that you're Perfect is utter Pride. I'm saying it is possible to live a sinless life because Jesus did. And he is our example
Tanx and Bye
.. You can also believe what you want .. But before i leave, i'd like to say one thingI'm not saying we have to be Perfect, saying that you're Perfect is utter Pride. I'm saying it is possible to live a sinless life because Jesus did. And he is our example
Tanx and Bye
E
Ok. Paul called himself *wretched* because he was trying to be humble. Living a sinless life doesn't make you automatically Proud!. Except ofcourse you are trying to show it off. And even after you claim to live a sinless life, you have to keep struggling for higher places, because the battle against the flesh is one you keep fighting till the day you die. The fact that somebody now lives sinless doesn't make him Perfect!.
Jesus Christ was sinless, he was a man like me and you on earth!, he was tempted like me and you (and yet without sin). he is the example we are supposed to follow as believers!. So We Can Be Sinless Like Him.....
IT IS DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.. (By the way Jesus Christ been sinless didn't make him Proud)
Pleas about Johns' word, i think you need to read the remaining part of that scripture to understand what he meant. And stop making that part of the scripture sound like what it isn't
Jesus Christ was sinless, he was a man like me and you on earth!, he was tempted like me and you (and yet without sin). he is the example we are supposed to follow as believers!. So We Can Be Sinless Like Him.....
IT IS DIFFICULT NOT IMPOSSIBLE.. (By the way Jesus Christ been sinless didn't make him Proud)
Pleas about Johns' word, i think you need to read the remaining part of that scripture to understand what he meant. And stop making that part of the scripture sound like what it isn't
You think you can love your enemy unconditionally. Never lust for anything period. Never tell a little white lie. Never know to do what is right but because it will keep you from something you want to do, you do not do it. Never think of self even one iota, etc etc.
God says if you call your brother a fool you are in danger of helfire. You have never thought of any of your brothers and sisters were fools?
it is easy for us to look at other people and think we are holy and righteous. But when we get right down to it and look at ourselves in Gods eyes. we would see how truely sinfull we are. even when we think we are sinless!
Paul did not call himself wretched because he was trying to be humble. He admitted that he wanted to do (not sin) he did not do, That he did not want to do (sin)_ he did.. He even stated with his mind he will serve christ. But with his flesh (which was never taken away) he will sin. But it is not him who sins, but the flesh which is in him. Talk about me not following along with the whole passage!
As for John. Again, because the english translated the greek and instead interpreted a complete negative (can not sin) which is not found in the origional text. I am supposed to agree with the translators and not see scripture for what it says?
Did John contradict himself. Why would John say if we (believers) say we have no sin we are liars. Then later say if we sin we can not be saved? For that is a sharp contradiction!
Try studying the word as a whole, and not pic and chose text which support your belief and ignoring the rest of scripture. Scripture CAN NOT CONTRADICT!
I have fallen before also. If I lived my life every day thinking I was sinless, or could be sinless, i would not realise the sin I have in my life which is damaging to me and others. I would become a pharisee, thinking I have made it. When in reality I can not see the sin in my own life,
ma parents preach in Nepal and they tell me there are two things they cannot preach in nepal one is prosperity as in money and the other is good life cuz gosple bleeds there man,and there i learnt one thing i don care abt perfection i will worship him wid wha i have and he will take care of the rest.Getting to know God and growin in holiness is the most amaizing thing that we as a christians can do..anyone can preach but the thing is i always say it are we seekign him wen no man is watching,that where we maturity comes from,we may not read bible in hebrew or greek but we can weep over how thank ful we are for that word that has been given to us in the language we understand,i even know a guy who actually copied the new testiment cuz he couldnt afford to buy one,come on guys its time to adore God,have reverence on his name cuz its holy,and in all our imperfection he will have grace,am not telling anyone to sin what i am saying is to stay focoused in God and we will understand grace and we willnot want to sin and even if we do,cuz of the new heart that God has been working in us we wil be quick to repent.
AMEN!
of course we do not want to sin...who better to explain the conflict to us than PAUL?
this is one reason we know the Bible is true - it does not gloss over what we are.
but in Christ we are so grateful and changing, we are NEW!
and yes....even when no one is looking. same as when people ARE looking....what lost sinner will ever believe they can be perfect?
where is the Great Exchange? where is the Wisdom of God in His imputation of Christ's Righteousness?
just who are we exhalting?
thank you sam.
love zone.
of course we do not want to sin...who better to explain the conflict to us than PAUL?
this is one reason we know the Bible is true - it does not gloss over what we are.
but in Christ we are so grateful and changing, we are NEW!
and yes....even when no one is looking. same as when people ARE looking....what lost sinner will ever believe they can be perfect?
where is the Great Exchange? where is the Wisdom of God in His imputation of Christ's Righteousness?
just who are we exhalting?
thank you sam.
love zone.
E
Yes, this is what separates us from the holiness group. They think they can be perfect. and are blinded to the sins they have (like the pharisees who even Jesus stated were righteous according to the law) The rest of us, realise we can not be perfect. Praise God and have a gratitude for what he has done for us. And are on th elook out for areas in which we are week and fail. Striving always to grow in Christ.