If the Holy Spirit is indeed God, then where is this God figure in Revelation? He seems a little left out of the picture with the Father and the Lamb recieving all the credit in the end.
Hello Victor,
I replied to your post a short while ago. I provided scriptures and included comments which, I hope, were helpful in distinguishing between the Holy Spirit, (part of the trinity), and Angels, (beings created to be messengers and warriors in the service of God).
I also attempted to explain the potentially heretical conclusion which one would have to draw in order to accept what you propose.
Because you are unsure of what you believe, I think it's important to provide you with as much information as I can, regarding the fundementals of Christianity, so that you're not mislead.
There are some who, have admittedly made it their purpose to 'sow seeds of doubt', and to advance an evil agenda, in service to satan, in the hope of causing weak or ignorant Christians to fall away. I have no time for those who make it their purpose to willfully attack the church.
I look forward to your response, indicating that you either understand the explanation, provided or that you require further evidence.
The book of the Revelation, is a book which primarily deals with the unfolding of end-time events. It isn't the most likely source I'd select, for substantiating or refuting a belief in The Holy Spirit's place in the trinity.
Without re-reading John's Revelation, I already know that chapter 22 vs. 17 , following the words of Jesus, states " The Spirit and the Bride say come".
If that doesn't suffice. Let me draw a connection just to inform you of something you perhaps, have overlooked. There is a dangerous doctrinal conclusion which must be drawn, if anyone is to accept your argument as having any merit. What you are alleging, begins to erode the very fundementals of the Christian faith at its very roots. Let me explain.
In Matthew 1:18 , The events leading to the Birth of Christ are explained. it says,
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit.
In order for me to accept the alleged connection you've drawn, (claiming that the Holy Spirit was in fact an angel), I would also have to accept that Mary was with child through an angel.
It is accepted as basic bible truth, among most Christian denominations that Mary was divinely impregnated by the Holy Spirt.
The position of angels is clearly explained in Hebrews 1:13
To which of the angels did God ever say, 'Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet. Aren't all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?
Throughout scripture, both OT and NT, angels have only been portrayed as 'messengers' and 'warriors'. The only time copulation between angels and human beings ever took place, was in Genesis 6:3 , the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.
Angels were referred to at least twice in the OT, as 'sons of God'. In the book of
Job, 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD...
Other scriptures, considered to be foundational, explain what occurred following the water baptism of Jesus.
Luke 4:1 ... Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan. ..
Once again, in order to substantiate your theory, we would have to believe that an angel, (not God), was within Jesus and also within his people.
Acts 2:4 ... all of them were filled with the Holy Spirit ...
Rom. 8:9 ... You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you ...
There are many scriptures which clearly distinguish between the position and function of the Holy Spirit and the position and function of angels.
You seem more concerned with upholding the doctrine of "christianity" than for honest answers pertaining to scripture. I never said anyone was possessed by an angel. Paul preached the simplicity of Christ. The Holy Spirit Job is to lead us into all truth.
John 14:15-26
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; FOR HE DWELLETH WITH YOU, AND SHALL BE IN YOU.
18I will not leave you comfortless: I WILL COME TO YOU.
19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
21HE THAT HATH MY COMMANDMENTS, AND KEEP THEM, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, AND WILL MANIFEST MYSELF TO HIM.
22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, WHOM THE FATHER WILL SEND IN MY NAME, he shall TEACH YOU ALL THINGS, AND BRING ALL THINGS INTO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1ST we keep the commandments
Then Jesus prays to the Father and the FATHER sends the Comforter
The Comforter (Spirit of Truth) which the world cannot receive because it sees him not
Jesus states that “I WILL COME TO YOU!”
Jesus states that the world will see me more, but you live because he lives
He states AGAIN that WHOEVER keeps the commandments HE WILL MANIFEST HISELF!
He was ask how we would see Him.
He AGAIN REPLIES that if you love Him, to KEEP His Words and both the FATHER AND SON WILL MAKE OUR ABODE WITH THEM!
NOW He states that if ANY man does not keep His sayings, then that man doesn’t love HIM. We see that the words are not His but the FATHER’S!
He then says that these things has He spoken to them, while yet being present with them
He says the Comforter which is the Holy Ghost whom the FATHER WILL SEND IN HIS NAME, he would teach them ALL THINGS and bring ALL THINGS INTO THEIR REMEMBRANCE!
There has to be a meaning to this! Is the Holy Spirit God or an angel BEARING THE MESSAGE OF TRUTH!!?
LET’S SEE IF THERE’S A STORY IN THE BIBLE THAT WE CAN COMPARE IT TO!
Numbers 27:15-22
And Moses spake unto the Lord, saying,
16Let the LORD, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
17Which may go out before them, and which may go in before them, and which may lead them out, and which may bring them in; that the congregation of the LORD be not as sheep which have no shepherd.
18And the LORD said unto Moses, Take thee Joshua the son of Nun, a man in whom is the spirit, and lay thine hand upon him;
19And set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation; and give him a charge in their sight.
20And thou shalt put some of thine honour upon him, that all the congregation of the children of Israel may be obedient.
21And he shall stand before Eleazar the priest, who shall ask counsel for him after the judgment of Urim before the LORD: at his word shall they go out, and at his word they shall come in, both he, and all the children of Israel with him, even all the congregation.
22And Moses did as the LORD commanded him: and he took Joshua, and set him before Eleazar the priest, and before all the congregation:
Moses inquired of the Lord to set a man over the congregation
Mosed was told by the Lord to take Joshua, IN WHOM IS THE SPIRIT
Moses was to PLACE SOME OF HIS HONOUR(GLORY) UPON HIM
How does this to apply to the story in John with Jesus?
1. Clearly Joshua is filled with the Holy Spirit so WHY DOES MOSES HAVE TO GIVE JOSHUA SOME OF HIS HONOUR (GLORY) TO HIM!?
Surely God the Holy Spirit doesn't need a MAN'S GLORY!
Well, when the Father sends the Comforter He will bring into remembrance all that Jesus said to the disciples. Jesus said that I will come unto you, clearly this has to be God!
Well, let's see
Joshua 1:1-8
Now after the death of Moses the servant of the LORD it came to pass, that the LORD spake unto Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' minister, saying,
2Moses my servant is dead; NOW THEREFORE ARISE, GO OVER THIS JORDAN, thou,AND ALL THIS PEOPLE, UNTO TO THE LAND WHICH I DO GIVE THEM, EVEN TO THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL.
3Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses.
4From the wilderness and this Lebanon even unto the great river, the river Euphrates, all the land of the Hittites, and unto the great sea toward the going down of the sun, shall be your coast.
5There shall not any man be able to stand before thee all the days of thy life: AS I WAS WITH MOSES, SO I WILL BE WITH THEE: I will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
6Be strong and of a good courage: FOR UNTO THIS PEOPLE SHALT THOU DIVIDE FOR AN INHERITANCE THE LAND, which I sware unto their fathers to give them.
7Only be thou strong and very courageous, that thou mayest observe to do according to all the law, which Moses my servant commanded thee: turn not from it to the right hand or to the left, that thou mayest prosper withersoever thou goest.
8THIS BOOK OF THE LAW SHALL NOT DEPART OUT OF THY MOUTH; but thou shalt meditate therein day and night, that thou mayest observe to do according to all that is written therein: for then thou shalt make thy way prosperous, and then thou shalt have good success.
What else was Joshua commissioned to do with Israel?
Joshua 1:10-13
Then Joshua commanded the officers of the people, saying,
11Pass through the host, and command the people, saying, Prepare you victuals; FOR WITHIN THREE DAYS YE SHALL PASS OVER THIS JORDAN, TO GO IN TO POSSESS THE LAND, which the LORD your God giveth you to possess it.
12And to the Reubenites, and to the Gadites, and to half the tribe of Manasseh, spake Joshua, saying,
13REMEMBER THE WORD WHICH MOSES the servant of the LORD commanded you, saying, The LORD your God hath given you rest, and hath given you this land.
What does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit? Joshua had it just to name one of many. John was filled with the Spirit from his mothers womb.
Jesus was OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
To be filled: Eph.5:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD:
To be of: John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
THE WORD OF GOD MADE FLESH!
WHO CARRIED THE WORD OF GOD TO MAN?
EXODUS 23:20-21
Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
