The Holy Spirt, 3rd person in God, fact or fiction?
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... . as it is written
:read:
Mga Hebreo: 4. 7. Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
. ... so as it is written
:read:
Awit: 95. 8. Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
~;> and
:read: (as it is written)
Mga Hebreo: 3. 4. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5. And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6. But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
:read:
Mga Hebreo: 4. 7. Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
8. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
9. There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
10. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
11. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
12. For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
13. Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.
. ... so as it is written
:read:
Awit: 95. 8. Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work.
~;> and
:read: (as it is written)
Mga Hebreo: 3. 4. For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
5. And Moses verily was faithful in all his house, as a servant, for a testimony of those things which were to be spoken after;
6. But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.
7. Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8. Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9. When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10. Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
11. So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
12. Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Hehehe, you're funny. You did it again!
You no sooner got done apologizing for calling the Spirit of God an "it", only to call Him an "It", yet again.
It [the Holy Ghost/Spirit] is the Spirit of God.
Did you mean to say, He is the Spirit of God?
You no sooner got done apologizing for calling the Spirit of God an "it", only to call Him an "It", yet again.
It [the Holy Ghost/Spirit] is the Spirit of God.
Did you mean to say, He is the Spirit of God?
I am not sure if I remember a passage where the Ruach HaKodesh is referred to by "He".
Certainly we know that the Ruach HaKodesh caused Miriam to conceive, but that accomplishment is beyond my realm of understanding. (Certainly glad it happened!)
The more I think about it, and reflect on Scripture, I am pretty sure I don't want to diminish the Ruach HaKodesh by referring to said Spirit as "man" or "he" or "it" or "person".
Jesus Himself called Holy Spirit a "He"....this is how distinct beings are referred to.
John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
THE SEVEN SPIRITS......... (interesting take...just F.Y.I......)
The Sevenfold Ministry of the Spirit[edit]
In one interpretation, the "Seven Spirits" represent the sevenfold ministry of the Spirit as depicted in the Book of Isaiah. As it is written: "The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD, and He will delight in the fear of the Lord." Isaiah 11:2-3 (NASB). Including the Spirit of the Lord, and the Spirits of wisdom, of understanding, of counsel, of might, of knowledge and of fear of the LORD, here are represented the seven Spirits, which are before the throne of God.[SUP][4][/SUP] The reference to the lamb in Revelation 5:6 relates it to the Seven Spirits which first appear in Revelation 1:4 and are associated with Jesus who holds them along with seven stars.[SUP][5][/SUP]
An alternative view is that the seven graces ("charisma") of Romans 12:6-8 reflect the seven spirits of God. The Holy Spirit manifests in humankind through these graces, reflecting the seven spirits of Yahweh. The seven graces are: 1) insight (prophecy); 2) helpfulness (service or ministry); 3) instruction (teaching); 4) encouragement; 5) generosity (giving); 6) guidance (leadership); and 7) compassion. This agrees with Isaiah 11:2-3 if "the Spirit of the Lord" is recognized as categorical and "the delight in the fear of the Lord" is added.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
Seven Distinct Spiritual Beings[edit]
In the New Testament, the Greek term "Dynamis" (translated by some as "Virtues") suggests a class of exalted spiritual beings; perhaps parallel to the "chief Princes" (Sar rishown) in the Old Testament, of which the Archangel Michael is stated to be one (Daniel 10:13).[SUP][6][/SUP]"Dynamis" is used by the Apostle Paul to refer to spiritual beings in Romans 8:38; Ephesians 1:21, 3:10, 6:12; and Colossians 1:16, 2:10 & 15. "Powers and principalities" can apply to both angelic and demonic beings, but more often in the New Testament to demonic beings. However, it should be noted, most translators take "Dynamis" to mean 'strength', 'power' or 'ability', not 'virtues'.
Symbolic of Perfection[edit]
Sevenfold may also be connected with the Biblical understanding of the number 7 representing perfection. The "Seven Fold Spirit of God" could be the "perfect" Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit.[SUP][7]
Seven Spirits of God - Wikipedia, the free...
[/SUP]
The Sevenfold Ministry of the Spirit[edit]
In one interpretation, the "Seven Spirits" represent the sevenfold ministry of the Spirit as depicted in the Book of Isaiah. As it is written: "The Spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the Spirit of wisdom and understanding, the Spirit of counsel and might, the Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD, and He will delight in the fear of the Lord." Isaiah 11:2-3 (NASB). Including the Spirit of the Lord, and the Spirits of wisdom, of understanding, of counsel, of might, of knowledge and of fear of the LORD, here are represented the seven Spirits, which are before the throne of God.[SUP][4][/SUP] The reference to the lamb in Revelation 5:6 relates it to the Seven Spirits which first appear in Revelation 1:4 and are associated with Jesus who holds them along with seven stars.[SUP][5][/SUP]
An alternative view is that the seven graces ("charisma") of Romans 12:6-8 reflect the seven spirits of God. The Holy Spirit manifests in humankind through these graces, reflecting the seven spirits of Yahweh. The seven graces are: 1) insight (prophecy); 2) helpfulness (service or ministry); 3) instruction (teaching); 4) encouragement; 5) generosity (giving); 6) guidance (leadership); and 7) compassion. This agrees with Isaiah 11:2-3 if "the Spirit of the Lord" is recognized as categorical and "the delight in the fear of the Lord" is added.[SUP][citation needed][/SUP]
Seven Distinct Spiritual Beings[edit]
In the New Testament, the Greek term "Dynamis" (translated by some as "Virtues") suggests a class of exalted spiritual beings; perhaps parallel to the "chief Princes" (Sar rishown) in the Old Testament, of which the Archangel Michael is stated to be one (Daniel 10:13).[SUP][6][/SUP]"Dynamis" is used by the Apostle Paul to refer to spiritual beings in Romans 8:38; Ephesians 1:21, 3:10, 6:12; and Colossians 1:16, 2:10 & 15. "Powers and principalities" can apply to both angelic and demonic beings, but more often in the New Testament to demonic beings. However, it should be noted, most translators take "Dynamis" to mean 'strength', 'power' or 'ability', not 'virtues'.
Symbolic of Perfection[edit]
Sevenfold may also be connected with the Biblical understanding of the number 7 representing perfection. The "Seven Fold Spirit of God" could be the "perfect" Spirit of God, the Holy Spirit.[SUP][7]
Seven Spirits of God - Wikipedia, the free...
[/SUP]
Jesus Himself called Holy Spirit a "He"....this is how distinct beings are referred to.
John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
Have you looked at the Greek? Why are you so against Holy Spirit as being God and a distinct being and yet being one with the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ?
All the "He" is in 3rd person singular = which is talking about a being.
Person: 3rd Person
Number: Singular
Here is the link below for the Greek text:
John 14:16 Interlinear: and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age;
Jesus Himself called Holy Spirit a "He"....this is how distinct beings are referred to.
John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
[SUP]17 [/SUP] that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
Have you looked at the Greek? Why are you so against Holy Spirit as being God and a distinct being and yet being one with the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ?
All the "He" is in 3rd person singular = which is talking about a being.
Person: 3rd Person
Number: Singular
Here is the link below for the Greek text:
John 14:16 Interlinear: and I will ask the Father, and another Comforter He will give to you, that he may remain with you -- to the age;
In V16, there is no Greek word there for "he".
In V17, the Greek word used for "him" is G846 (au-tos'), which if you look in other passages, is also translated as "her", "they", "their", "his", "hers",etc.
We can debate all day, but still, I rather say the Ruach HaKodesh or Holy Spirit, than to call it a "him" or "person".
If you like saying person, just say person, but don't expect me to do the same as you.
This is the Apostolic Bible Polyglot, from the Greek-English Interlinear..The spirit of truth; whom the world is not able to receive, for it does not contemplate it, nor knows it. But you know it, for with you it abides, and in you it will be.
John 14:17 (ABPen, MBM)
Now they refer to the Spirit as "it".
Maybe you will say they rejected the Holy Spirit also?
You like to fling around that accusation, hoping to shine.
John 14:17 (ABPen, MBM)
Now they refer to the Spirit as "it".
Maybe you will say they rejected the Holy Spirit also?
You like to fling around that accusation, hoping to shine.
Yeshua is the Hebrew name for the Lord.
The English spelling of Yeshua is Joshua.
The Greek spelling of Yeshua is Iēsous. The English spelling for Iēsous is “Jesus.”
Those who argue and insist we call Jesus by his correct name, Yeshua, are concerning themselves with trivial, non-essential matters. English speakers call him Jesus, with a "J" that sounds like "gee." Portuguese speakers call him Jesus, but with a "J" that sounds like "sjeh," and Spanish speakers call him Jesus, with a "J" that sounds like "hey." Which one of these pronunciations is the correct one? All of them, of course, in their own language.
The Bible doesn't give preeminence to one language (or translation) over another. We are not commanded to call upon the name of the Lord in Hebrew only. God knows who calls upon his name, whether they do so in English, Portuguese, Spanish, or Hebrew. He is still the same Lord and Savior.
Acts 2:21
21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
The English spelling of Yeshua is Joshua.
The Greek spelling of Yeshua is Iēsous. The English spelling for Iēsous is “Jesus.”
Those who argue and insist we call Jesus by his correct name, Yeshua, are concerning themselves with trivial, non-essential matters. English speakers call him Jesus, with a "J" that sounds like "gee." Portuguese speakers call him Jesus, but with a "J" that sounds like "sjeh," and Spanish speakers call him Jesus, with a "J" that sounds like "hey." Which one of these pronunciations is the correct one? All of them, of course, in their own language.
The Bible doesn't give preeminence to one language (or translation) over another. We are not commanded to call upon the name of the Lord in Hebrew only. God knows who calls upon his name, whether they do so in English, Portuguese, Spanish, or Hebrew. He is still the same Lord and Savior.
Acts 2:21
21 ‘And it shall be that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.’
The KJB calls the Spirit of Christ, which is the Holy Spirit an "it" at least once. There is another place that I cannot find at the moment.
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Autos = is a personal pronoun. - ( personal means a person - a being ) - in verse 17 where is says "He shall abide with you".....is 3rd person singular - which is referring to "autos" which is "He"
Person: 3rd Person
Number: Singular
Holy Spirit is a being just like the Lord Jesus Christ so in effect you are denying His deity and in essence His work in your life. You are denying the 3rd person of the Trinity which is a major tenant of the true Christian faith.
Without Him - Holy Spirit teaching you all things - the scriptures will only be looked at through natural minds which is why you continually leave out Christ in your religion.
Person: 3rd Person
Number: Singular
Holy Spirit is a being just like the Lord Jesus Christ so in effect you are denying His deity and in essence His work in your life. You are denying the 3rd person of the Trinity which is a major tenant of the true Christian faith.
Without Him - Holy Spirit teaching you all things - the scriptures will only be looked at through natural minds which is why you continually leave out Christ in your religion.