The last Trumpet NOT in Rev

[Trax]

Do the first thing first and then proceed to the second. To determine the last trumpet,
one must follow these two steps:
1. Determine what the sound of the trumpet is
2. Use info from point #1 to identify what the last use is

Many use this verse to say the last of seven trumpets in Rev is the last trumpet:
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the
trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be
changed.

But their whole approach is completely backwards. Many people have the mindset
of going at it backwards. They follow these steps:
1. Identify the last use
2. Use info of point #1 to determine what the sound of the trumpet is.
That is saying, "the last trumpet is the last of the seven trumpets blown in Rev, so
the sound of the last trumpet is an angel blowing a trumpet."

If they don't know what the sound of the trumpet is, they have no clue when
the last use of it will be. This backwards approach leads people to point out
the last of the seven trumpets, in Rev, is the last trumpet mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52.
IT CAN"T BE.

1. The sound of the trumpet is the voice of the Son of God (Ex chp 19 &20, Rev 1:10, Rev 4:1,
John 5:25)
2. The seven trumpets in Rev, are seven angels blowing a trumpet, not the same thing.
NOT the voice of the Son of God.

1 Cor was written around 55 AD and Rev was written around 95 AD, forty years later.
Paul refered to things already established and not to something coming forty years
later. The people would have been confused and God is not the author of confusion (1Cor 14:33)

When Paul was talking about speaking in tongues, he made a very good point that is useful here:
1Co 14:7-8 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give
a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? (8) For if the
trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
You simply have to know the sound of the trumpet. If you don't, how WILL you prepare yourself?
How WILL you determine the last use of the trumpet? The answer is simple: You Can't!

1. Identify the sound of the trumpet. Is it an angel blowing a trumpet OR the voice of
the Son of God?
2. Use the info determined in point #1 to determine a last use of it.

If you say its the voice of the Son of God then the seven trumpets blown by seven angels
is ruled out. If you say its the seventh angel blowing a trumpet, then you go against
scripture. Its that simple. People are confused about the issue and God isn't the
author of this confusion (1 Cor 14:33) People confuse themselves when they go
about it backwards.

1. Determine the sound
2. Determine its last use

 

[nathan3]

Sound of the trump ? Your not asked to determine that. Your told its the last,. thats it. The last is The seventh. ALL the trumps are in Revelation.

Your allowing your self to come to a conclusion based off false assumptions. You hardly gave nor considered any scripture.Then by default it is assumption . : / I would not feel comfortable to conclude anything that way. It''s a recipe for disaster .

 

[Blain]

Do the first thing first and then proceed to the second. To determine the last trumpet,
one must follow these two steps:
1. Determine what the sound of the trumpet is
2. Use info from point #1 to identify what the last use is

Many use this verse to say the last of seven trumpets in Rev is the last trumpet:
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the
trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be
changed.

But their whole approach is completely backwards. Many people have the mindset
of going at it backwards. They follow these steps:
1. Identify the last use
2. Use info of point #1 to determine what the sound of the trumpet is.
That is saying, "the last trumpet is the last of the seven trumpets blown in Rev, so
the sound of the last trumpet is an angel blowing a trumpet."

If they don't know what the sound of the trumpet is, they have no clue when
the last use of it will be. This backwards approach leads people to point out
the last of the seven trumpets, in Rev, is the last trumpet mentioned in 1 Cor 15:52.
IT CAN"T BE.

1. The sound of the trumpet is the voice of the Son of God (Ex chp 19 &20, Rev 1:10, Rev 4:1,
John 5:25)
2. The seven trumpets in Rev, are seven angels blowing a trumpet, not the same thing.
NOT the voice of the Son of God.

1 Cor was written around 55 AD and Rev was written around 95 AD, forty years later.
Paul refered to things already established and not to something coming forty years
later. The people would have been confused and God is not the author of confusion (1Cor 14:33)

When Paul was talking about speaking in tongues, he made a very good point that is useful here:
1Co 14:7-8 And even things without life giving sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give
a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known what is piped or harped? (8) For if the
trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?
You simply have to know the sound of the trumpet. If you don't, how WILL you prepare yourself?
How WILL you determine the last use of the trumpet? The answer is simple: You Can't!

1. Identify the sound of the trumpet. Is it an angel blowing a trumpet OR the voice of
the Son of God?
2. Use the info determined in point #1 to determine a last use of it.

If you say its the voice of the Son of God then the seven trumpets blown by seven angels
is ruled out. If you say its the seventh angel blowing a trumpet, then you go against
scripture. Its that simple. People are confused about the issue and God isn't the
author of this confusion (1 Cor 14:33) People confuse themselves when they go
about it backwards.

1. Determine the sound
2. Determine its last use

As i read your post i could feel a sort of sense of understanding in your words, perhaps the lord has chosen you to be his voice to prepare the people. This part especially made me excited(if the
trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?) I have told god how i would love to fight for his name, to become empowered by him to serve him to the fullest. I said i wanted my eye's to burn for their protection and my eye's to burn of love for his sheep just as his does. I don't remember where i read where his eye's were like fire but I knew when i read it why his eye's burned and i could see his flaming eye's in my mind. This is why i want to be raptured and be empowered by him- well actually these are but a few of them but all my reasons to be raptured are to serve him like i have always wanted. Thank you for your thread

 

[Trax]

Sound of the trump ? Your not asked to determine that. Your told its the last,. thats it. The last is The seventh. ALL the trumps are in Revelation.

Your allowing your self to come to a conclusion based off false assumptions. You hardly gave nor considered any scripture.Then by default it is assumption . : / I would not feel comfortable to conclude anything that way. It''s a recipe for disaster .

If people don't know what they are looking for, they'll never find it. That is just your plain and simple
common sense. When they get tired of looking, they'll do one of two things:
1. Decide on something they like
2. Decide on something that is the most convenient

You, and others like you, fail to know what the sound of the trumpet is.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the
trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What part of "Lord Himself" and "with a shout" and the trumpet being His voice, as I have told
you before, are you having trouble putting together? You speak against knowing what the sound is.
It IS important. God's word even spells it out in 1 Th 4:16 Nathan, you and others, don't even know
what the sound of the trumpet is, but quick to point out when it happens. You haven't found
what you are looking for, because you don't know what it is that you are looking for. You even state
a case that it isn't something we aren't suppose to do. REALLY?????

This case of the last trumpet in Rev is doctrine built around what sounds good, or is convenient
to those who have no clue of what they are looking for. You got to figure out what the
sound of the trumpet is. God gave the use of a trumpet. There is the feast of trumpets.
Trumpets were used when they moved in the wilderness. The feast of trumpets had a "LAST TRUMP."
The movement in the wilderness had a "LAST TRUMP." What has God given, in the past, that is
a picture of something spiritual that is going to happen? You can not apply any of this
to arrive at the truth, because you don't know what the sound of the TRUMP is. You are going to have
to figure it out BEFORE you can arrive at its use.

 

[Blain]

If people don't know what they are looking for, they'll never find it. That is just your plain and simple
common sense. When they get tired of looking, they'll do one of two things:
1. Decide on something they like
2. Decide on something that is the most convenient

You, and others like you, fail to know what the sound of the trumpet is.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the
trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What part of "Lord Himself" and "with a shout" and the trumpet being His voice, as I have told
you before, are you having trouble putting together? You speak against knowing what the sound is.
It IS important. God's word even spells it out in 1 Th 4:16 Nathan, you and others, don't even know
what the sound of the trumpet is, but quick to point out when it happens. You haven't found
what you are looking for, because you don't know what it is that you are looking for. You even state
a case that it isn't something we aren't suppose to do. REALLY?????

This case of the last trumpet in Rev is doctrine built around what sounds good, or is convenient
to those who have no clue of what they are looking for. You got to figure out what the
sound of the trumpet is. God gave the use of a trumpet. There is the feast of trumpets.
Trumpets were used when they moved in the wilderness. The feast of trumpets had a "LAST TRUMP."
The movement in the wilderness had a "LAST TRUMP." What has God given, in the past, that is
a picture of something spiritual that is going to happen? You can not apply any of this
to arrive at the truth, because you don't know what the sound of the TRUMP is. You are going to have
to figure it out BEFORE you can arrive at its use.

Don't let your heart be troubled Trax, in the days of jesus not many people wanted to be believe the truth because they didn't like it. This is escpecailly true in our generation, it puts peoples mind at ease to reject the words of the wise and continue simple ways. This does not mean they will not eventually understand but some people are just not ready yet. I enjoy reading your posts because they make perfect sense, as if not a single word is spoken in your words but the lords. As if he is speaking through you, of course he often does this with people they just don't realize it

 

[nathan3]

If people don't know what they are looking for, they'll never find it. That is just your plain and simple
common sense. When they get tired of looking, they'll do one of two things:
1. Decide on something they like
2. Decide on something that is the most convenient

You, and others like you, fail to know what the sound of the trumpet is.

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the
trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with
the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

What part of "Lord Himself" and "with a shout" and the trumpet being His voice, as I have told
you before, are you having trouble putting together? You speak against knowing what the sound is.
It IS important. God's word even spells it out in 1 Th 4:16 Nathan, you and others, don't even know
what the sound of the trumpet is, but quick to point out when it happens. You haven't found
what you are looking for, because you don't know what it is that you are looking for. You even state
a case that it isn't something we aren't suppose to do. REALLY?????

This case of the last trumpet in Rev is doctrine built around what sounds good, or is convenient
to those who have no clue of what they are looking for. You got to figure out what the
sound of the trumpet is. God gave the use of a trumpet. There is the feast of trumpets.
Trumpets were used when they moved in the wilderness. The feast of trumpets had a "LAST TRUMP."
The movement in the wilderness had a "LAST TRUMP." What has God given, in the past, that is
a picture of something spiritual that is going to happen? You can not apply any of this
to arrive at the truth, because you don't know what the sound of the TRUMP is. You are going to have
to figure it out BEFORE you can arrive at its use.

I guess I'm going to have to document everything I say from The Bible. To a T. Cross the t's and dot the i's. We all must do that.

 

[GRA]

Let me see if I got this...

'trump' => "voice of the Son of God"

'last trump' => "the last time the voice of the Son of God will be heard"

You mean... After the rapture --- I will never hear my Lord's voice again...???

.

 

[Trax]

I guess I'm going to have to document everything I say from The Bible. To a T. Cross the t's and dot the i's. We all must do that.

By going with the seventh trumpet in Rev as being the last trump, a person has to settled
on it being an angel with a trumpet. For me, I chose to determine what the trump is, by
what God's word states. All I've done is give good advice and point people in the right
direction.

Many people go into many religions, many philosophies, many cult doctrines, because they
do not apply the same principle:
1. Know what it is, that you are looking for
2. Then go find it.

Since they don't know, they get tired of looking and go with what seems best to them
or is convenient. They are looking for Christ and they don't know it. They never find what
they are looking for.

 

[GRA]

...what the trump is, by what God's word states.

I believe that God's Word states that a trump is............

A trumpet.

Strongs is generally helpful. Let us see what it says...

G4536:

~ a trumpet
~ a trumpet which sounds at God's command
~ the trumpet which will sound at the last day - ( 1 Corinthians 15:52 )



.

 

[Trax]

Let me see if I got this...

'trump' => "voice of the Son of God"

'last trump' => "the last time the voice of the Son of God will be heard"

You mean... After the rapture --- I will never hear my Lord's voice again...???

.

No, I'm saying your crowd isn't going to find the truth because you don't have a clue as to
what the trump is and what Paul was refering to and what spiritual truth he was conveying.
And you aren't even trying to figure out what the trump is. The last trump of WHAT???
I see no where in 1 Cor 15:52 that states "the last time a trumpet blowing mentioned in the
Bible, is the trumpet I, Paul, am refering to," No, that idea is a conclusion arrived at, by not
knowing what the trump is. When you know what the trump is, you can write off the seven
angels with seven trumpets.

You will have to decide to go with what the Bible describes (the Lord Himself shall descend
from heaven with a shout), or go with an angel blowing a trumpet. For me, I chose to believe
the Bible. I chose to believe the Lord Himself. Its the doctrine you have locked in your own
mind that arrives at the conclusion of it being the last time the Lord speaks. As I stated,
the feast of trumpets had a last trump. The movement in the wilderness had a last trump.
The issue of a "last trump" is refering to the last trump of a feast or movement, but the
trump itself is the voice of the Lord. And THAT rules out an angel blowing a trumpet.
The last trumpet of WHAT? Well, not knowing what the last trump is, people pick something
that sounds good or is convenient. "Hey, they have trumpets blowing in Rev, and thats the
last book of the Bible, so, that must be it!" Well, that goes against the Bible saying, the Lord
Himself will shout.

 

[Trax]

I believe that God's Word states that a trump is............

A trumpet.

Strongs is generally helpful. Let us see what it says...

G4536:

~ a trumpet
~ a trumpet which sounds at God's command
~ the trumpet which will sound at the last day - ( 1 Corinthians 15:52 )



.

Num 10:1-10 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, (2) Make thee two trumpets of
silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling
of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. (3) And when they shall blow with
them, all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of
the congregation. (4) And if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are
heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee. (5) When ye blow
an alarm, then the camps that lie on the east parts shall go forward. (6) When ye blow
an alarm the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall take their
journey: they shall blow an alarm for their journeys. (7) But when the congregation is to
be gathered together, ye shall blow, but ye shall not sound an alarm. (8) And the sons of
Aaron, the priests, shall blow with the trumpets; and they shall be to you for an ordinance
for ever throughout your generations. (9) And if ye go to war in your land against the
enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall
be remembered before the LORD your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies.
(10) Also in the day of your gladness, and in your solemn days, and in the beginnings
of your months, ye shall blow with the trumpets over your burnt offerings, and over the
sacrifices of your peace offerings; that they may be to you for a memorial before your
God: I am the LORD your God.

When the last trump happens, we take our journey.

 

[GRA]

Let me see if I got this...

'trump' => "voice of the Son of God"

'last trump' => "the last time the voice of the Son of God will be heard"

You mean... After the rapture --- I will never hear my Lord's voice again...???

.

Its the doctrine you have locked in your own mind that arrives at the conclusion of it being the last time the Lord speaks.

I was being sarcastic...



.

 

[peterT]

No, I'm saying your crowd isn't going to find the truth because you don't have a clue as to
what the trump is and what Paul was refering to and what spiritual truth he was conveying.
And you aren't even trying to figure out what the trump is. The last trump of WHAT???
I see no where in 1 Cor 15:52 that states "the last time a trumpet blowing mentioned in the
Bible, is the trumpet I, Paul, am refering to," No, that idea is a conclusion arrived at, by not
knowing what the trump is. When you know what the trump is, you can write off the seven
angels with seven trumpets.

You will have to decide to go with what the Bible describes (the Lord Himself shall descend
from heaven with a shout), or go with an angel blowing a trumpet. For me, I chose to believe
the Bible. I chose to believe the Lord Himself. Its the doctrine you have locked in your own
mind that arrives at the conclusion of it being the last time the Lord speaks. As I stated,
the feast of trumpets had a last trump. The movement in the wilderness had a last trump.
The issue of a "last trump" is refering to the last trump of a feast or movement, but the
trump itself is the voice of the Lord. And THAT rules out an angel blowing a trumpet.
The last trumpet of WHAT? Well, not knowing what the last trump is, people pick something
that sounds good or is convenient. "Hey, they have trumpets blowing in Rev, and thats the
last book of the Bible, so, that must be it!" Well, that goes against the Bible saying, the Lord
Himself will shout.

It sounds like you are so desperate not to go through the great tribulation that you see what you like in the Bible and make it up as you go along.

You don’t want to have to forsake all; you don’t what to lose your stuff, and have to give up anything and have to live by faith in Gods provision.

You just want the roses and don’t want the thorns that come with the roses.

You don’t want to be tried and tested for your faith, you don’t want to do any suffering like the disciples and Jesus and the prophets did.

I think you might be a fair weather Christian.

No trying, no testing, no purging, no purifying, NO trying of one faith, and then No coming through as gold.

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

How do you think God is going to remove stop and wrinkle from the church in the last days?.

Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

 

[GRA]

I believe that God's Word states that a trump is............

A trumpet.

Strongs is generally helpful. Let us see what it says...

G4536:

~ a trumpet
~ a trumpet which sounds at God's command
~ the trumpet which will sound at the last day - ( 1 Corinthians 15:52 )



.

When the last trump happens, we take our journey.

Yet - unlike every other case in scripture where a trumpet is present in the context - the rapture trumpet has nothing to do with an actual trumpet?



.

 

[Trax]

It sounds like you are so desperate not to go through the great tribulation that you see what you like in the Bible and make it up as you go along.

You don’t want to have to forsake all; you don’t what to lose your stuff, and have to give up anything and have to live by faith in Gods provision.

You just want the roses and don’t want the thorns that come with the roses.

You don’t want to be tried and tested for your faith, you don’t want to do any suffering like the disciples and Jesus and the prophets did.

I think you might be a fair weather Christian.

No trying, no testing, no purging, no purifying, NO trying of one faith, and then No coming through as gold.

Matthew 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

How do you think God is going to remove stop and wrinkle from the church in the last days?.

Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish

Peter, before all the known creation of God as witness, take a stand on the issue now:

1. Do you say the last trump is the voice of the Son of God
2. Or one of seven angels blowing a trumpet

TAKE A STAND PETER! Show the world where you stand. I don't have time for your nonsense.
The issue is "what is the last trump". What is YOUR stand on it! NOT when it happens,
but WHAT IT IS! Tell us today! Right here, right now, before all, your stage is set to proclaim
a doctrine, the voice of the Son of God or an angel blowing a trumpet? And your answer is......?

 

[peterT]

Peter, before all the known creation of God as witness, take a stand on the issue now:

1. Do you say the last trump is the voice of the Son of God
2. Or one of seven angels blowing a trumpet

TAKE A STAND PETER! Show the world where you stand. I don't have time for your nonsense.
The issue is "what is the last trump". What is YOUR stand on it! NOT when it happens,
but WHAT IT IS! Tell us today! Right here, right now, before all, your stage is set to proclaim
a doctrine, the voice of the Son of God or an angel blowing a trumpet? And your answer is......?

My answer is you are a funny man mate

 

[Trax]

My answer is you are a funny man mate

Peter, I was dead serious with you. I was not joking, not at all.
To be honest with you Peter, I go out of my way to not read anything you
post and to leave you alone. Its time for you to do the same for me.
Just skip over my post and leave me alone. You replied in the exact same
manner I was expecting. Its TIME to leave me alone and move on. I gave you one
last chance to focus on the issue and your conduct held true. Go bother someone
else and leave me alone.

 

[Trax]

Ok, i figured out the ignore feature. I wished I had known it earlier.
Would have saved me a lot of trouble.

 

[peterT]

Sorry I can’t help to respond to doctrine that is radula’s and that’s based on wishful thinking

 

[RickyZ]

I don't get what the debate is about. We see a series of 7 trumpets blown by 7 angels; after the last trumpet blows, the Lord returns with a shout, the shout being a totally separate and distinct event from the trumpet blast. The last trumpet isn't replaced by the shout, it heralds the shout.

And I'd give it an attitude check here too. The more desperately I hear a man promote his position, the less inclined I am to listen to it.