The law of Christ

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1still_waters

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I have no problem getting that, but what you may not get is that the law still has purpose and it saddens me that Christians cannot see that. When faith comes, the law doesn't vanish, it's is seen with a spiritual eye of understanding for the law is spiritual. Right? King David had faith in God and He loved it. Shouldn't we love it too?
This verse leads me to believe law is only to speak to those under the law.

Romans 3
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are [h]under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works [i]of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for [j]through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
But we're not under law, we're under Christ.

28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”


31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, [w]but of the free woman.
But it also says...
Romans 3
through the Law comes the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7
I would not have come to know sin except [e]through the Law; for I would not have known about [f]coveting if the Law had not said,
The law can be used to shine light on remaining sin and make us knowledgable of it.
But once that light has been shown, we must cling to the Son.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Sorry. The covenant is with Israel in the Old Testament and with God's children through Christ in the New Testament. The law of Christ is New and the law of God is Old. When excluding the human reactions to either one, is the spiritual intent of the words spoken contained in both covenants the same as what came from both God and Christ?

Is the law of God different than the law of Christ?
The moral law is the same, not the multitude of other laws.
Though the moral is the same it appears to be part of the regenerate's person's new nature written on fleshy tablets of our heart by His Spirit and not on stone.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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This verse leads me to believe law is only to speak to those under the law.

Romans 3


But we're not under law, we're under Christ.



But it also says...
Romans 3


Romans 7


The law can be used to shine light on remaining sin and make us knowledgable of it.
But once that light has been shown, we must cling to the Son.
So this brings me back to the original question. Is the law of Christ different than the law of God?
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Care to show us this?

Faith in the promise extended to all...

Genesis 3:15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
 
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1still_waters

Guest
So this brings me back to the original question. Is the law of Christ different than the law of God?
OT law = tutor pointing to Christ.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [a]tutor.
Law of Christ = bearing others burdens.
Gal 6
2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
Based on that alone, I'd say the OT law can only point us toward Christ, while the law of Christ makes us like Christ, so we are like him and bear the burdens of others.
 

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
I see the OP has changed.
So this brings me back to the original question. Is the law of Christ different than the law of God?
Define both so we are talking about the same thing.
 
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OT law = tutor pointing to Christ.


Law of Christ = bearing others burdens.
Gal 6


Based on that alone, I'd say the OT law can only point us toward Christ, while the law of Christ makes us like Christ, so we are like him and bear the burdens of others.

Galatians 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Now I agree with that as far as bearing the burdens of others. That has everything to do with loving our neighbor as ourselves because Jesus agreed that love is the fulfilling of the law. It's an attitude rather than works without faith.

Leviticus 19:13-18
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

But let me ask the question in a different way. Were God's intentions different through Christ's law than what they were through Moses?
 
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1still_waters

Guest
Now I agree with that as far as bearing the burdens of others. That has everything to do with loving our neighbor as ourselves because Jesus agreed that love is the fulfilling of the law. It's an attitude rather than works without faith.

Leviticus 19:13-18
13 Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
14 Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
15 Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
16 Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge , nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

But let me ask the question in a different way. Were God's intentions different through Christ's than what they were through Moses?
Yes his intentions through Moses were to expose our weakness through commands, and to point us toward Christ through the tutor of the law.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Yes his intentions through Moses were to expose our weakness through commands, and to point us toward Christ through the tutor of the law.
But does that make Christ's law different from His Father's law? Keep in mind that Jesus is the Creator of all things including principalities.Maybe I ought to start another thread asking who gave the law to Moses, Jesus or God? LOL
 
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1still_waters

Guest
But does that make Christ's law different from His Father's law? Keep in mind that Jesus is the Creator of all things including principalities.Maybe I ought to start another thread asking who gave the law to Moses, Jesus or God? LOL
Yes OT law is different than NT law, if you want to call it "law".
OT law was a tutor that pointed to Christ.

Those of us in Christ have Christ, so no need for a tutor to point us to what we already have.

OT law had moral demands, but also rules on what to not touch along with strict days to observe. All as a way of tutoring and pointing to Jesus.
4 Now I say, as long as the heir is a [a]child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is [b]owner of everything,2 but he is under guardians and [c]managers until the date set by the father.3 So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the [d]elemental things of the world.4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under [e]the Law,5 so that He might redeem those who were under [f]the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.6 Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!”7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir [g]through God.
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods.9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless [h]elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again?10 You observe days and months and seasons and years.11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored [i]over you in vain.
Gal 3
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a [ai]tutor.
NT "law" if you want call it that is about clinging to the one the tutor told us about, as we have faith working through love, as we bear burdens, as we live by the Spirit.

6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.
16 But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
2 Bear one another’s burdens, and thereby fulfill the law of Christ.
 
Mar 4, 2013
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Yes OT law is different than NT law, if you want to call it "law".
OT law was a tutor that pointed to Christ.

Those of us in Christ have Christ, so no need for a tutor to point us to what we already have.

OT law had moral demands, but also rules on what to not touch along with strict days to observe. All as a way of tutoring and pointing to Jesus.


Gal 3


NT "law" if you want call it that is about clinging to the one the tutor told us about, as we have faith working through love, as we bear burdens, as we live by the Spirit.
Ok now I know what you believe. You don't use the tutor to bring others to Christ then because you have told others that if they have faith they don't need to pay any attention and learn the tutor?

I have another question which will hopefully be my last one today (smile)

Moses was a righteous man but he was prohibited from entering into the promised land. Why would that be?
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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But does that make Christ's law different from His Father's law? Keep in mind that Jesus is the Creator of all things including principalities.Maybe I ought to start another thread asking who gave the law to Moses, Jesus or God? LOL
Given to Moses by angels...

Hebrews 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
 
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1still_waters

Guest
Ok now I know what you believe. You don't use the tutor to bring others to Christ then because you have told others that if they have faith they don't need to pay any attention and learn the tutor?

I have another question which will hopefully be my last one today (smile)

Moses was a righteous man but he was prohibited from entering into the promised land. Why would that be?
You don't think I use the tutor to bring others to Christ because I believe Christians live by the Spirit and no longer need a tutor because they possess the one the tutor was talking about?

I'm hoping this is a misunderstanding, and not the starting stage of constructing a straw man, :p
 
Mar 4, 2013
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You don't think I use the tutor to bring others to Christ because I believe Christians live by the Spirit and no longer need a tutor because they possess the one the tutor was talking about?

I'm hoping this is a misunderstanding, and not the starting stage of constructing a straw man, :p
Not at all. If we preach that the law is invalid because of faith, then the instructions are also invalid because we are incapable of relating the law to the sacrifice of Christ and also our living sacrifice of obedience. The law of the New Testament confirms that. After all Jesus quoted the law to Satan. It still has an enormous amount of power when one has a viewpoint of its spiritual relevance as Paul did. So again I ask why Moses didn't enter into the promised land? I ask this as comparing Spiritual with Spiritual. I am getting to a conclusion however. Does this imaginary "strawman" have anything thing to do with the wizard? (smile)
 
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1still_waters

Guest
Not at all. If we preach that the law is invalid because of faith, then the instructions are also invalid because we are incapable of relating the law to the sacrifice of Christ and also our living sacrifice of obedience. The law of the New Testament confirms that. After all Jesus quoted the law to Satan. It still has an enormous amount of power when one has a viewpoint of its spiritual relevance as Paul did. So again I ask why Moses didn't enter into the promised land? I ask this as comparing Spiritual with Spiritual. I am getting to a conclusion however. Does this imaginary "strawman" have anything thing to do with the wizard? (smile)
None of that is even the scope of the thread.
You were asking

Is the law given to Moses spiritually different than the law of Christ?

Give a distinct yes or a no when answering this question.

Hopfully this will eleviate confusion that causes circular rhetoric that has no end.
I answered that.
Now you're using your initial post as a hook into another topic.

The OT law is spiritually different as I've already shown.

I think I've answered your question, and I have no desire for another round of going around the mulberry bush.

 
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None of that is even the scope of the thread.
You were asking



I answered that.
Now you're using your initial post as a hook into another topic.

The OT law is spiritually as I've already shown.

I think I've answered your question, and I have no desire for another round of going around the mulberry bush.

[/QUIsOTE]
Really it does have to do with the same topic because it is related to the salvation of Christ which is the law of Christ." Right?:)
 
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1still_waters

Guest
None of that is even the scope of the thread.
You were asking



I answered that.
Now you're using your initial post as a hook into another topic.

The OT law is spiritually as I've already shown.

I think I've answered your question, and I have no desire for another round of going around the mulberry bush.

[/QUIsOTE]
Really it does have to do with the same topic because it is related to the salvation of Christ which is the law of Christ." Right?:)
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise.29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?“Cast out the bondwoman and her son,
For the son of the bondwoman shall not be an heir with the son of the free woman.”


31So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, [w]but of the free woman.
24 [s]This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children [t]who are to be slaves; [u]she is Hagar.
5 [a]It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery.
............
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
Galatians 4:9-11 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Galatians 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.

Galatians 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Romans 3:20-24 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus.

Romans 7:4-6 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Galatians 2:4-5 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: to whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

1 John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1 John 4:7-8 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

Galatians 5:16-18 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Galatians 2:18-21 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

2 Corinthians 3:3-6 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

Romans 8:1-9 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: that the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God. But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Matthew 7:3-5 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 Love is patient, love is kind and is not jealous; love does not brag and is not arrogant, does not act unbecomingly; it does not seek its own, is not provoked, does not take into account a wrong suffered, does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rejoices with the truth; bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away.
 
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Ok now I know what you believe. You don't use the tutor to bring others to Christ then because you have told others that if they have faith they don't need to pay any attention and learn the tutor?

I have another question which will hopefully be my last one today (smile)

Moses was a righteous man but he was prohibited from entering into the promised land. Why would that be?
None of that is even the scope of the thread.
You were asking


I answered that.
Now you're using your initial post as a hook into another topic.

The OT law is spiritually as I've already shown.

I think I've answered your question, and I have no desire for another round of going around the mulberry bush.
Really it does have to do with the same topic because it is related to the salvation of Christ which is the law of Christ." Right?:)
Oh well. that's the way it goes.