The most self centered....

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
#21
Christians are Jesus' chosen people who have more than spread and preach the gospel in all 247 countries. He calls us "the salt of the earth" and now He is ready to call His Church home to tell it "job well done faithful servants." Jesus will deal with those so-called unfaithful Christians.
Yes I agree, but it doesn't alter the fact that what the OP said is true. I will give you an example. We have a Christian center in our town for all the churches to use. It comprises of a cafe, bookshop and video centre.

I asked them if I could use it for a new ministry I was starting and they said no because they were listening to some gossip about me which may or may not be true as they never told me what it was.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
#22
PEOPLE are self centred, arrogant and uncaring. Christians are people not gods, the difference is that the un-perfect Christian will always aspire to be better, to please a holy and perfect God whereas the atheist/agnostic is quite happy to go about life pleasing his/herself. You only have to walk into a church to see that Christians in the main behave differently, it's hard to explain how but they are just different, I recognised this before I became a Christian, I knew Christians were "nice" but the sad fact is they often trip-up - sometimes daily in their attempts to be Christ-like but they never stop trying.

We fail because life happens and we're not always close to God - we take our eyes off Him. Satan temps us and we make poor decisions, Satan can't make us do these things but he does come up with the suggestion, the temptation. If we kept our eyes on God 100% of the time - and I know that is pretty much impossible, but if we did we would never fail.

The church is never perfect because it is made up of imperfect people, having said this there are some excellent churches which in the main are made up of loving, caring and kind individuals, these churches are increasing in congregation size here in the UK - going against the general trend. It's simply a case of finding the right church.
Sounds like to me that you have denied reality. No one said that perfection was required, but the fact is church is religion for a lot of people. It is not encounters with a living God. And it is a fact that a lot of christians, especially leaders, are on the promotion treadmill so sanctification and sacrifice are unknown qualities.

Promotion often comes by who you know and what you say, not what you do.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
#23
First I think it would be unfair to call Christians the most self centered, arrogant uncaring people in the world. I think you "see it more" and notice it more because we are called to be different.
I see where you are coming from and I do understand what you are saying. Because sin has entered the world humans (in general) are self centered. Because of sin we kinda want to be the center of the universe so to say.
I think that what you are saying is why church attendance and membership has gone down over the years. Because of our sin people outside the church don't see any difference. We are called to be different from the world but do we show it?
Now I may be wrong on this assumption but it's just an assumption. It seems to me (just from what you have written) you have been hurt pretty bad by people within the church. Is that correct? If so be very careful you don't put us all in the same pile.
I'll admit at one point I did become prideful and self righteous but over the years God has shown my why and how I became that way. If we try to run our own lives (as I did) we become that way. It has to be Jesus first others second then us third.
Now I hope I said all this correct. I am not perfect and I do not know it all but this is what I see. Sorry this is so long and I really hope this helps. Not for me but for the Glory of God.
I suppose avoiding the obvious is one way of dealing with it. I have read a book on Church Discipline and if we put into practice what it said the church in general would have a lot less members than it does now.
 

mustaphadrink

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2013
1,987
371
83
#24
The intent here is that we tend to our own business and stay out of other peoples business. The Lord is quite capable to tending to each and every sheep in His flock. Live your life so close to Christ that you do not need to say a word of condemnation toward any believer. Folks will see more of Christ in what you do than they will ever see in what you say.

How can we have compassion on the world if we cannot have compassion on our own family of believers?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
In that case roger we have to remove large parts of the New Testament where Paul and others laid down the law about what was acceptable behavior and dress.

I visited the church I used to attend in the 60s and a young woman was asked to speak. I sat listening and I become very aware of the fact that her clothing left nothing to the imagination. It was so tight everything poked out. I could not listen to what she was saying because of her inappropriate attire.

After the meeting, I spoke to her and said that she might like to give some thought to here attire when she speaks. Apparently she was offended by what I said and complained to the leadership who in turn told me off for saying it. They said they were quite happy with her attire and I thought that God obviously wasn't that is why he had to get someone outside of the fellowship to say something.

The fact is, if you wink at something that is not acceptable, you often wink at other things that are not acceptable.
 
W

weakness

Guest
#25
The intent here is that we tend to our own business and stay out of other peoples business. The Lord is quite capable to tending to each and every sheep in His flock. Live your life so close to Christ that you do not need to say a word of condemnation toward any believer. Folks will see more of Christ in what you do than they will ever see in what you say.

How can we have compassion on the world if we cannot have compassion on our own family of believers?

For the cause of Christ
Roger[/QUOTWhy then are we exhorted to "judge amongst ourselves, Rebuke ,reprove , exhort with all authority,To actually care enough to say the truth to our bros and sisters. Speaking the truth is having compassion. I know people can go hypocritical and under criticize themselves. But this is no excuse to get to close to the edge thinking you will fall in. fear again.God made Christ a body and its not his intent that we individual lead the life of the Spirit. I think if God didn't want us to speak to each other he wouldn't have given us a mouth. What your saying goes against more teaching than it supports.Why is telling some one what you are being led to tell them condemnation? Why did God give us a measure of the Gift and nature of Christ himself to be pastors,and teachers ans evangelist and prophets and helps and governments and love and wisdom and knowledge , It isn't for ourselves. I think most myself included sometimes just don't want anybody telling us our lives are a mess ,unChristian and selfish. The world sees it all the time but we are such hypos we refuse to see it ourselves.Really I think Most christians are so off the mark it really doesn't matter what you say to them .they will some how justify their continued wallowing. Your judging,Thats not love ,its between me and God.God loves me I can keep on living in the flesh........If you were riding in a car with one of your kids ,and were about to hit a cliff, would you just act(and I mean act) or would you scream "lookout"What a mess ,Just like the scripture warn.Ye Christ is the great shepherd ,but maybe he wants us to be shepherds too. Maybe if more were obedient to the command to sell all we have and lay up treasure in heaven, that would speak louder than words ,but that just some obscure mistake or something, and rarely is chosen.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#26
We r back to the 'don't ask, don't tell' program in the 'body'. You don't dare say a word about any error because you aren't perfect either.
Well I'm sorry. When I see a preacher saying he cheated an old woman on a roofing job and God was happy about it, I gotta speak up.
When the youth leader is praising a filthy movie before the young people, I gotta speak up.
When filthy communication is going on at the church dinner, I gotta speak up.
When a poor sister is being put down for taking to many left overs home, I gotta speak up.
When robbing widows is church practice, I gotta speak up.
When snubbing a street person that wandered into our holy sanctuary, I gotta speak up.
Ill not belabor the point.

Yes I sin daily but I hate it and repent when I do. I have never made sin a career choice. That's the difference some of you are missing here.
My main point was selfishness, self centeredness that way to many refuse to even consider working on. That needs rebuking. Some oppose me on this. Well your wrong. Are you living with a 'career choice' of open sin and rebellion?

I do know this to be true. Throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one that yelps the loudest is the one that got hit.

There should not be one voice rising up against what I'm putting forth. This is not just a small problem here or there. This is pandemic throughout the ekklesia of God and needs to be addressed. I know why the body is ailing in many things because I lived it in the body for years. On this site I and a few others have pointed to scripture by the truck load, much in repetition, exposing the false structure we call 'church' only to have many berate us while not speaking to the scripture. It's called spinning.

That's arrogance. Nobody wants to be told they're doing things contrary to God's heart and design. Unteachable is the defining word here.
The Life of the body is Christ. That Life will no longer manifest in a rebellious people who r to proud to even think for a moment that maybe we need to take a closer look at what He has commanded in our gatherings.

No truth, no Life, ....no life, no fruit. It's as simple as that. My hearts desire is for the children of God to come into their full inheritance in Him.
We cannot esteem our brother better than ourselves when we have not 'put on Christ' to the full. Kind and caring servanthood one to another. It's missing and 'church' as it is defined today stands in the way.
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#27
Certain things weigh heavy on me. I'll let them ride for a long time before speaking to them. I want to make sure that it's not 'just me'.

I've observed this condition for years, more years than I care to disclose. It's this. Christians are the most self centered, arrogant, uncaring people I have ever known. Not all, but way to many. What gives? Let's talk.

If I were to list every incident I've encountered, I'd fill volumes.
We are to esteem our brother better than ourselves. Patient, kind, gentle, not puffed up, etc.. But God help the saint that believes the same treatment will come back to him. What a blow. What a let down. Now get over it. It's just the way the 'church' is and here's why.

God set certain things in order for the body of Christ, the relationship between brothers and sisters. Some of those attributes are outlined in 1Cor. 13. The increase of these spiritual traits grow and strengthen by our fellowship in the Spirit.
But church is not set up for that spiritual growth. In fact it is in direct opposition to that purpose and function, making impotent His ecclesia.
This is something that has bothered me for quite some time, although my issue may be a little different than yours. My church seems to be cold in terms of fellowship. This is something I am thirsting for desperately, and I have had to obtain a few friends out in the world in order to tide me over, so to speak. I would love to have good, Christian friends to bolster me when I'm feeling down or need someone to talk to. I'd also like to be there for them when they need the same. I'd also just love to hang out sometimes and really get to know someone and have them get to know me.
No matter who I bring it up this issue with at my church, the answer is the same. They all invariably say, as if programmed, that "no church is perfect" and that I must "look to Christ, alone, for strength". What kind of heartless answer is that? Why are we to meet as a church if all we need to do is look to Christ? I can sit at home all alone and do that.
It's really starting to hurt me, deep down in my soul. It's even affecting my perception of Christ Himself. If I see no love from God's people, what kind of impression does that give me of God?
 
Last edited:
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#28
Members of ANY church or religion can be "self-centered, arrogant, and uncaring people"!! That type of behavior does not apply ONLY to christians.
Of course it doesn't. We don't expect unsaved people to know any better. Christians, on the other hand, should.
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
#29
This is something that has bothered me for quite some time, although my issue may be a little different than yours. My church seems to be cold in terms of fellowship. This is something I am thirsting for desperately, and I have had to obtain a few friends out in the world in order to tide me over, so to speak. I would love to have good, Christian friends to bolster me when I'm feeling down or need someone to talk to. I'd also like to be there for them when they need the same. I'd also just love to hang out sometimes and really get to know someone and have them get to know me.
No matter who I bring it up this issue with at my church, the answer is the same. They all invariably say, as if programmed, that "no church is perfect" and that I must "look to Christ, alone, for strength". What kind of heartless answer is that? Why are we to meet as a church if all we need to do is look to Christ? I can sit at home all alone and do that.
It's really starting to hurt me, deep down in my soul. It's even affecting my perception of Christ Himself. If I see no love from God's people, what kind of impression does that give me of God?
You really need to change your church - it's that simple. It's very rare for anyone to fit in with their first choice of church, like anything else you shop around until you find what you are looking for. Meanwhile this is a pretty good place to fellowship.
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#30
You really need to change your church - it's that simple. It's very rare for anyone to fit in with their first choice of church, like anything else you shop around until you find what you are looking for. Meanwhile this is a pretty good place to fellowship.
The problem is that this isn't my first church. I've been bouncing around from church to church for awhile now, after a period of having just walked away from it altogether. I eventually returned to the church I last attended in 1999, which is the one I'm at now.
I think it's a culture problem. I know the unsaved world in my neck of the woods has "busyness" as its religion. It seems to have thoroughly infected the church. People at church only care about their own families and, to a lesser extent, their cliques. I could die tomorrow and no one would likely notice for a very long time, if at all.
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
#31
The problem is that this isn't my first church. I've been bouncing around from church to church for awhile now, after a period of having just walked away from it altogether. I eventually returned to the church I last attended in 1999, which is the one I'm at now.
I think it's a culture problem. I know the unsaved world in my neck of the woods has "busyness" as its religion. It seems to have thoroughly infected the church. People at church only care about their own families and, to a lesser extent, their cliques. I could die tomorrow and no one would likely notice for a very long time, if at all.
I feel for you. People are flawed and churches can become more about people than God. Busyness is not just a problem in your culture - it's a worldwide problem and even more reason to slow down and seek the Lord. I don't want to suggest you stop attending church, we all need to connect with other Christians (I have my own problems with that!) I think for many people it's why they find themselves here. I think if you are not already doing so you should be praying about this. God found my church for me, I see no reason why He wouldn't do the same for you.
 
Aug 26, 2014
392
4
0
#32
I feel for you. People are flawed and churches can become more about people than God. Busyness is not just a problem in your culture - it's a worldwide problem and even more reason to slow down and seek the Lord. I don't want to suggest you stop attending church, we all need to connect with other Christians (I have my own problems with that!) I think for many people it's why they find themselves here. I think if you are not already doing so you should be praying about this. God found my church for me, I see no reason why He wouldn't do the same for you.
That's likely good advice, but I find I've grown distrustful of God due to all of this. It's hard for me to pray and believe He's even listening anymore. I worry about the effect this had had on my faith, but I'm weary of it and have almost given up.
 
B

biscuit

Guest
#33
[h=1]What does the Bible say about narcissism?[/h]
Question: "What does the Bible say about narcissism?"

Answer:
Narcissism is the term used in psychology to describe a preoccupation with self. It is a Greek term taken from the name of the mythological Narcissus, who fell in love with his own image and was doomed to die because he would not turn away from it. A narcissist is a person who displays a high level of selfishness, vanity, and pride. He sees everything from a “how does this affect me?” perspective. Empathy is impossible for the narcissist because his only perspective is the one centered on self. In psychology, narcissism is seen as a broad spectrum of conditions ranging from normal to pathological.

The Bible says that we are born sinful since the fall (Romans 5:12). This means that we are born with only sinful tendencies and no ability to be “good” or righteous on our own. What we call “human nature” the Bible calls “the flesh” (Galatians 5:19-21). Part of our sin nature is a total focus on self. This focus, also called “egocentrism,” is how babies see and experience the world. Narcissism is like egocentrism in that the adult still relates to the world like an infant, a perspective that impedes personal growth and relationships.

Psychological theories about narcissism suggest that the narcissistic person uses defense mechanisms to idealize self so that he does not have to face his own mistakes (sin) or flaws (fallen state). The diagnosis of narcissistic personality disorder outlines the behavior patterns of a narcissistic person as being haughty, non-empathetic, manipulative, and envious; he also possesses a sense of entitlement and grandiosity. From a biblical perspective, it is clear that these heart conditions are due to pride, which is sin (Proverbs 16:18). The Bible tells us to “look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others” (Philippians 2:4). The narcissist routinely disobeys this command.

Pride is a reason people do not feel they need a savior or forgiveness. Pride tells them they are “good” people or have a “good” heart. Pride also blinds people to their own personal responsibility and accountability for sin. Narcissism (pride) masks sin, whereas the gospel reveals the truth that leads to remorse for sin. Narcissistic traits can be dangerous because, at their worst, they will lead a person to destroy others to satisfy the lust of the flesh (2 Timothy 3:2-8).

The Bible addresses the issues related to narcissism as part of our sinful natural self (Romans 7:5). We are slaves to the flesh until we place our faith in Jesus, who sets the captives free (Romans 7:14-25; John 8:34-36). Believers are then slaves to righteousness as the Holy Spirit begins the transforming work of sanctification in their lives. However, believers must surrender to the Lord and humble themselves in order to have God’s perspective rather than a selfish one (Mark 8:34). The process of sanctification is turning away from self (narcissism) and turning toward Jesus.

All people are narcissists until they either learn how to cover it and get along in the world or until they recognize their own flesh and repent of their sin. The Lord helps people to grow out of narcissism when they receive Jesus as their savior (Romans 3:19-26). The believer is empowered to begin loving others as himself (Mark 12:31).

Recommended Resources: The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A. Carson andLogos Bible Software.

[HR][/HR]
Related Topics:
 
M

MadParrotWoman

Guest
#34
That's likely good advice, but I find I've grown distrustful of God due to all of this. It's hard for me to pray and believe He's even listening anymore. I worry about the effect this had had on my faith, but I'm weary of it and have almost given up.
Don't let people's coldness allow you to distance yourself from God. Pray - truly you are being heard. Sometimes God moves in ways we don't understand but they always turn out for the best. We look back and see where God had been working for our benefit. Maybe God has a church lined-up for you but He needs you to seek it out, now if you weren't unhappy in your present church you would have no reason to seek this church He has in mind for you!

Trust in the Lord, he loves you and never give up!
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,236
6,530
113
#35
There are all too many instances where you are absolutely correct. Unhappily some mistake being self-centered with repeating the words from the Word with understanding. Discernment must take its place in the latter instances.


Certain things weigh heavy on me. I'll let them ride for a long time before speaking to them. I want to make sure that it's not 'just me'.

I've observed this condition for years, more years than I care to disclose. It's this. Christians are the most self centered, arrogant, uncaring people I have ever known. Not all, but way to many. What gives? Let's talk.

If I were to list every incident I've encountered, I'd fill volumes.
We are to esteem our brother better than ourselves. Patient, kind, gentle, not puffed up, etc.. But God help the saint that believes the same treatment will come back to him. What a blow. What a let down. Now get over it. It's just the way the 'church' is and here's why.

God set certain things in order for the body of Christ, the relationship between brothers and sisters. Some of those attributes are outlined in 1Cor. 13. The increase of these spiritual traits grow and strengthen by our fellowship in the Spirit.
But church is not set up for that spiritual growth. In fact it is in direct opposition to that purpose and function, making impotent His ecclesia.
 
O

oldthennew

Guest
#36
Yet,
you have touched our hearts and our prayers are with you.

now-a-days mis-trust is the norm, and there is good reason for this emotion -
false preachers and teachers are numerous and flaunt their wealth and
power right in front of us all on the TV, which filters down to the
brick-and-mortar-every-corner-denominations.

so many are out of work and homeless and hungry, while so many
of the 'established religions' are sitting on mountains of wealth.
but, we must not equate the 'weakness' of religion with the strength of God.
every institution is flawed as well as the people.

we understand the feelings that people have of detachment and abandonment
from modern-day churches, we have had much experience in this area.

the basic problem is that the churches gather-in the flock=evangelize,
and then the sheep are not fed or nourished properly, and then the result is,
they cannot feed or nourish one another properly, a vicious cycle really.

having observed this present day neglect of Biblical Principles in so many
churches, has caused my wife and myself much grieving.
so many are wandering in the wilderness of modern-day-churchianity.

the results of 'watering=down' the Word of God is more than evident
in our society and is showing-up in the hearts and minds of our
precious brothers and sisters, who are only hungry and longing for a
family from whom that they can be fed Spiritually, Emotionally,
and many times needing a very present, Physical helping.

for those who have found a 'caring=nurturing' church,
you are truly blessed beyond belief.
but for those who are honestly seeking fellowship and love
and cannot find it anywhere, then it's time to be strengthened
in God's Word, which means, fill-in those lapses and free time
with intense and diligent Bible Study,
not with the numerous 'satanic-distractions' of our present, evil world.

Show your Lord and Master, Jesus Christ, that you mean business,
and you WILL find Peace with Him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#37
I'll always maintain that if we, as believers, would align our gatherings closer to the NT mark, much of the selfishness, aloneness, hurt, and rejection would dissipate. Not all, but much of it.
 
Aug 20, 2014
771
7
0
#38
I'll always maintain that if we, as believers, would align our gatherings closer to the NT mark, much of the selfishness, aloneness, hurt, and rejection would dissipate. Not all, but much of it.
Self-righteous false doctrine cleaves the Christian church, the body of believers, apart.

[h=3][/h]
 
Aug 20, 2014
771
7
0
#39
When I was a child during Bible study we were each assigned verses to remember and recite on Easter Sunday before the whole congregation, as we were in Sunday school.

My verse was John 3:16, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

To this day I recall that. And in moments like this it amazes me that there are people who will deny that scripture says what it says. As if eternal has a whole other meaning. I think it is that plague of the flesh that causes such egoism to pronounce itself superior to God's will and Christ's sacrifice. And quite possibly a very strong predisposition to self-deprecation. They believe they are only the flesh and they are not worthy of eternal life, irrevocable salvation, or Heaven.

This is why they believe one screw up and they're out of the "Heaven club" and damned again.

Nothing in scripture would ever sponsor that belief. But that is what many argue as they hope to convince others they're not special either. It's sad. And amazingly brazen that there are people who would challenge God and call him a liar.
Perhaps they're atheists and their hobby is that of POE. That would certainly explain how the one constant they all share in common is lack of knowledge of scripture. They simply excerpt what they read out of context on Bible sites and argue from a godless perspective that Jesus did not bring eternal salvation to the world.

God surely knows. :(

Isaiah 55:6-7

“Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
 

Yet

Banned
Jan 4, 2014
3,756
69
0
#40
There is unity.....in the Spirit. If there is no unity, do you suppose that might be because there is no present Spirit. And if there is no Spirit, why not? Where the Spirit of The Lord is there is liberty. Eleuthera: not enslaved.


We are ordered not to quench the Spirit. So what would quench the Spirit of God in our assembly?
How about not obeying His word concerning our relationship with each other in the gathering....how we hold our meetings?
Many on this site deny the Lord that bought them (set at nought His teaching) 2Peter 2:1 concerning this topic. It is very clear that Christ is to be Head of our fellowship and that He should have the freedom to work through each individual as He so chooses.
So since His prescription for His body which is an open participatory meeting is not what we do, folks are left impotent and dry spiritually.

This leaves a void for the unchristian attributes of the world to take root in the individual believer. In a word, satan has won. He has defused the body of Christ. He has made lame His people as a functional representation of Himself to a lost world.

The world looks at way to many Christians and sees no difference in them from themselves. Sometimes if there is a difference, it's not for the better but for the worse. (We gather not for the better, but for the worse).

Unity has become a joke. Can the Spirit work with the flesh? Can one brother who has done his homework to get into the Spirit of God, work with another brother who has not, but does his thing for The Lord in the flesh absent His Spirit? This is the major problem of what I call churchianity.

Again, we are not taking heed to what we are to be in Him, or how we are to esteem others better than ourselves. To many doing just the opposite, esteeming themselves better than all the others through the ungodly hierarchical construct in the local body. Instead of servants serving one another in the humility and fear of The Lord, it has become a 'king of the mountain' club.
So hence the spirit of the world....'another spirit, another gospel, another Jesus'.
 
Last edited: