The myth of "head" vs "heart" knowledge

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tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
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#61
The real truth is however, that many a person, in fact, many a preacher, has 'head knowledge' knowing much history, language, culture, Bible references and such "knowledge", and yet, in practice, we see the greasy gracers, the prosperity gospels, the building worship and etc.


This is correct. But, again, it is not such knowledge (and understanding) that we primarily talk about here, see post # (which actually is my reply to one of your prior posts).

The mind can indeed be filled with basically anything, that's why it is so important to guard it. But I would caution against the term "head knowledge" anyway. Because all knowledge, regardless of source, ends up in the same place. The Holy Spirit works also in that same room.
 
Oct 31, 2011
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#63
=Crossfire; If there are no distinctions then, according to your logic, all who profess Jesus are saved and there is nothing that distinguishes the wheat from the tares, the sheep from the goats. That is exactly the problem with intellectualized Christianity. Far too many assumptions are made which derive from the carnal understanding (interpretations) of men (the sinful flesh). There is little, if no reliance at all, on the indwelling Holy Spirit, which explains a lot of the bad behavior that obviously accompanies intellectualized Christianity.
I think all who profess Jesus are saved, even if head knowledge does not result in obedience, what we do that is opposed to Godly ways separates us from God but through heart knowledge there is always a way back. God does not accept us because or through what we do, even though our obedience is so very important.

Carnal knowledge has permeated the church today, it is true. It results in rampant disobedience. I think this starts with a lock of head knowledge because they are not looking at scripture as a unified whole from one triune God. If one scripture seems to disagree with another over the course of the thousands of years scripture covers, they blame it on scripture’s change rather than their lack of understanding.

As a case in point, we are told in scripture that the Law of Moses is obsolete and the old shall pass away. It is up to us to understand what of that law has passed away, but God expects us to do this as we know that nothing of God principles can ever change. Our head knowledge is very important.
 
Aug 11, 2012
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#64
To sum up this parable, Jesus himself is describing the Church.
38 and the field is the world

The wheat are true believers and the tares are what I call "the religious lost". The religious lost are people who say they are saved, they say they believe the Bible and that Jesus is the son of God however, they do nothing but cause serious problems in the church.
and the field is the world, and the good seed, these are the sons of the reign, and the darnel are the sons of the evil one, 39 and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is a full end of the age

The workers (angels) are able to discern to the wheat (true believers) from the tares (the religious lost) because when each began to form grain (bare fruit) their seed (fruit) looked different. However, because the roots the tares were so intertwined with the wheat, rather than allow the workers (angels) to rip the tares out of the ground (would have uprooted much wheat in the process), the farmer (God) allows them to grow together until the day of the harvest (2nd Coming).
and the reapers are messengers. 40 'As, then, the darnel is gathered up, and is burned with fire, so shall it be in the full end of this age, 41 the Son of Man shall send forth his messengers, and they shall gather up out of his kingdom all the stumbling-blocks, and those doing the unlawlessness, 42 and shall cast them to the furnace of the fire; there shall be the weeping and the gnashing of the teeth.

aggelos - angels

the parable of the sower is not about wheat and tares inside the the church.
it is about the whole world.
the reapers are not christians/workers, they are the angelic host.
the disciples asked if they as workers/christians should pull up the tares and Jesus said no, the angels would do it.
 
L

LawofLove

Guest
#65
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
2Pe 1:6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
2Pe 1:7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
2Pe 1:8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.


Here in lies the way of sanctification notice it starts with knowledge. Then from the knowledge of knowing our Lord Jesus brings the fruit of temperance which in no way can man get on his own. Here we find the new birth start.

When someone says you only have head knowledge that means one of two things.(1) If it is carnal knowledge it will be like some who believes God is around but dos not know God as a friend so you see no fruit in that persons life. Paul says in 1cor 13:2 we can have all knowledge but with out love it means nothing. Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

(2)But if someone is truly seeking God that knowledge will be seen as Gods love for us witch will move our heart (feelings) and when the feelings are truly changed then temperance can take place. Note we can not change our own feelings. We are born with the lust of the flesh and only God can change our heart/feelings.

Then you can say you have found the "divine nature"

2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#66
Hey can i pipe in here? No? ok. :)
nice post lawoflove!
 
Aug 11, 2012
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#67
There are handful of excellent examples of Calvinism gone right; Hudson Taylor, George Whitefield & Andrew Murray to name a few.
75 million reformed christians are gone wrong?

These men were God fearing, bible believing Christians who loved God with all their heart, mind soul & strength AND LOVED PEOPLE more so than there own lives as history shows.
yes, they were godly men.

but - not one of those men ever claimed to fulfill the whole of the law as Jesus did.
neither by letter or as regenerate men saved by grace.
not a single one of them can be shown to make that claim.
no christian who understands what Jesus came for will ever claim they fulfill the 2 great commands as He did.
this is a claim of perfection.
i, for one, can make no such claim.
 

tribesman

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2011
4,612
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#68
...When someone says you only have head knowledge that means one of two things.(1) If it is carnal knowledge it will be like some who believes God is around but dos not know God as a friend so you see no fruit in that persons life. Paul says in 1cor 13:2 we can have all knowledge but with out love it means nothing. ...
That "knowledge" would actually be ignorance then in this context. To be ignorant about something does not mean that one is unintelligent. But it does mean that one lacks applicable knowledge of something. Relevant to the thread Luke 11:52 and Rom.10:2-3 has been named as examples. Another example would be Nicodemus, who was not an unlearned man, whom Jesus scolded for not knowing what he should have known as a "master of Israel". Nicodemus was ignorant of the new birth. However Nicodemus knew that Jesus was a teacher of God and was wise enough to ask from and listen to Him.
John.3

[1] There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
[2] The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
[4] Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
[5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
[6] That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
[7] Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
[8] The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
[9] Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
[10] Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
[11] Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
PS. You made a good point of the relation to temperance.
 
L

LawofLove

Guest
#69
That "knowledge" would actually be ignorance then in this context. To be ignorant about something does not mean that one is unintelligent. But it does mean that one lacks applicable knowledge of something. Relevant to the thread Luke 11:52 and Rom.10:2-3 has been named as examples. Another example would be Nicodemus, who was not an unlearned man, whom Jesus scolded for not knowing what he should have known as a "master of Israel". Nicodemus was ignorant of the new birth. However Nicodemus knew that Jesus was a teacher of God and was wise enough to ask from and listen to Him.
PS. You made a good point of the relation to temperance.

I think what happens to meany Christians is they spend so much time looking for truth in Gods word and they forget who truth is. And I quote Frank Phillips "In our search for truth there may be something that is blinding us to truth.''


In other words they see Jesus as a way out but they don't see how to use that to get out, they are blinded by Legalism so it never moves their heart to Surrender it only moves there Intellect then they force action by their own selfish motive to look the part to fit in. And they can't see that If we just surrender to Gods holy spirit the fruit will grow on its own. They focus on this or that bad habit and don't see any change to their heart only the way they think about sin. I agree that its all in the head but I don't want my mind witch is carnal nor do I want my feelings that are carnal. I want Jesus's mind and a new heart that comes from that. And there is a Dichotomy in the since that Jesus's mind is his and it is not the same one we are born with in the flesh. In that when Adam and Eve sinned there in lies the division into two parts. So people think they can change this mind they are born with rather than let Jesus give them a new mind. So only true heart knowledge is having the mind of Christ and the carnal mind is still of man so only Intellectual change comes form reading the bible with out a surrendered life.

Php_2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Eze_36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.
 
Aug 11, 2012
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#70
one has either been called out and born again or they have not.
there's no difference between head and heart.
 
Jun 24, 2010
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#71
one has either been called out and born again or they have not.
there's no difference between head and heart.
There is nothing wrong with having knowledge and good doctrine, but if we do not humble ourselves and become broken in our heart before God, knowledge will puff us up (1Cor 8:1, 13:4) and we will never discern and know the love of God that surpasses knowledge (Eph 3:19).
 
Aug 11, 2012
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#72
There is nothing wrong with having knowledge and good doctrine, but if we do not humble ourselves and become broken in our heart before God, knowledge will puff us up (1Cor 8:1, 13:4) and we will never discern and know the love of God that surpasses knowledge (Eph 3:19).
the heart is a muscle which pumps blood.
 
May 2, 2011
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#73
the heart is a muscle which pumps blood.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Luke 6:45

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Matthew 12:34
 
Aug 11, 2012
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#74
A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh. Luke 6:45

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. Matthew 12:34
what happens when someone receives a literal heart transplant through surgery? do they take on the sin and personality of the donor?
 
May 2, 2011
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#75
what happens when someone receives a literal heart transplant through surgery? do they take on the sin and personality of the donor?

Is a "wolf" in sheep's clothing a real wolf?

Is a "brood of vipers" just a bunch of snakes?

Is a roaring lion really speaking of a four-footed beast with a Maine (sic)?

Things that make ya go .... Hmmmm




 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
2,150
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#76
Is a "wolf" in sheep's clothing a real wolf?

Is a "brood of vipers" just a bunch of snakes?

Is a roaring lion really speaking of a four-footed beast with a Maine (sic)?

Things that make ya go .... Hmmmm
To be honest I lost this thread several posts ago. :D
 
G

GRA

Guest
#77
Do not confuse brain with mind. The brain is nothing more than an internal biological organ that decays along with the rest of our bodies. It is the mind that receves knowledge. The brain is only the biological storage unit. The mind is what may be equated with the "inner man." This is what servives beyond this life. It seems that mind and heart are some times used synomous in scripture, yet there are other times when they seem to be spoken of as two distinct things as in Phil. 4:7 - "And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." I don't know that I have an answer for this. If someone has a better understaning of this I would be intrested in hearing your thoughts on this.
I believe that I have an answer which may be helpful...

"Coming soon --- I think, I hope, I plan - Lord willing..."

.
 
G

GRA

Guest
#78
I believe that I have an answer which may be helpful...

"Coming soon --- I think, I hope, I plan - Lord willing..."

.
"I haven't forgotten --- I'm a workin' on it..." :)

.

 
G

GRA

Guest
#79
DISCLAIMER: The following discussion is naturally based on my 'world-view' - the collective summation of my knowledge, understanding, and perspectives of the reality which is "my world"...

First, I need to define some terms...

The following are the characteristically distinguishable 'realms' of human existence - as determined by self-awareness:

~ Physical
~ Physiological
~ Psychological
~ Mental
~ Emotional
~ Spiritual

'Physical' is the realm of the passive components of the body.

'Physiological' is the realm of active processes of the body - where direct communication (electrical or chemical) occurs within a body component or between body components.

'Psychological' is the realm of active processes of the mind - where physical-reality perception-and-thought occur.

'Mental' is the realm of intellect - where the thought and reasoning of the mind occur.

'Emotional' is the realm of feelings/desires - where the thought and reasoning of the heart occur.

'Spiritual' is the realm of the living essence of the person.

The following defines different identifiable "parts" of a human being in terms of the 'realms' of human existance that each occupies:

'Body' -> { Physical Physiological }
'Brain' -> { Physical Physiological Psychological Mental }
'Mind' -> { Psychological Mental Emotional Spiritual }
'Heart' -> { Emotional }
'Spirit' -> { Spiritual }

The brain overlaps both the body and the mind (which do not overlap) - connecting them together - and is the "portal" through which the body and the mind communicate - and through which the spirit keeps the body alive. At death ("brain dead"), the connection is broken and the body separates from the mind. The mind continues (because it still has the spirit), but the body stops functioning (because the brain is no longer being kept alive by the spirit - and the body cannot live without the brain).


To be continued...


????? ("Why do the fixed-width fonts not work?") :confused:


.
 
Feb 23, 2011
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#80
It is not good to lean unto one's own understanding (or self). We must learn to trust God. We are to be like children in our trust in God but we are not to be like children in knowledge. Many professing christians are refusing to believe that God through the Holy Spirit in the Word really can give accurate understanding of crucial matters. This is the knowledge that God gives in regeneration. It is divine in origin, it does not originate from human intellect. This knowledge affects the whole being of the blessed man who receives it. And this whole man (head, hand, feet etc) are to use this gift to SERVE GOD AND NEIGHBOR.

But there are some that despises this knowledge and unwisely chop up the term knowledge into a heart and head section. Instead they look to some "mystical", murky place, either in themselves or up in the blue, that they call "heart" which they set their hope to. Wrongly thinking in vain that there's a huge gulf between "heart" and "head". This is nothing but unbiblical human sophistry and pietist nonsense which crept in relatively late. Much of it stems from romanticism, a philosophy that became popular in the 1800s.

The Bible says that man thinks with his heart and that which his mouth speaks (and how he acts) shows his heart. From that we can also judge/discern (up to a point, I must add) what is in a man's heart. If someone for example is teaching heresies or speaking lies in hypocrisy or continually are making unrighteous judgments - then his heart is not "right". Examples of this is found in scriptures like Prov.23:7, Ezk.38:10, Luke 9:47, 2Tim.3:8 and Tit.1:15 etc.

The Bible does not make any dichotomy between heart and head, they are to understood as being one. Scriptural examples of this would include Gen.6:5,24:45,27:41, Exo.8:15,35:35,36:2, Deut.2:30,11:18,15:9, 1Kings 3:9, Ps.14:1,15:2,49:3, Prov.2:10,14:10, Eccl.7:22, Isa.33:18, Dan.5:20, Matt. 13:15, Luke 1:46-47,2:19, Acts 8:22, Rom.1:28,10:9-10 Phil.1:27 and Heb.4:12 etc.

Insisting that there is a gulf between heart and head leads to a foolish rejection of knowledge and instead comes a dependence upon feelings and "experiences", and thus a false standard. Now, if you lack knowledge in a field what do you have in its stead? Ignorance! Do a search in the Bible and look up what it says about knowledge vs ignorance. It doesn't take a scholar to spot that it says much about knowledge in the positive and much about ignorance in the negative. An undisputable fact is that these two words are actually often marked as indicators of being saved vs being lost. We're talking about very serious stuff here! However, there is a saying of Paul, in the context of not eating meats offered to idols, that knowledge puffs up while charity edifies. Needless to say, unless knowledge is acted upon in love it bears not the fruit intended. There is no difference there from faith.

Sometimes you will hear notions that the Pharisees were "religious experts" of their day and supposedly had a lot of "knowledge". Views like these are not uncommon but have no ground in facts. Although they were very zealous about their worship, they actually lacked knowledge. In reality they had gone astray from the path of the Saints of old and Jesus rebuked them for NOT having applicable knowledge (Luke 11:52). Paul likewise said that the unbelieving pharisees were indeed zealous for God, but not according to knowledge and that they were ignorant of God's righteousness (Rom.10:2-3). They were certainly sincere and commited in their zeal - but they were ignorant about that which was crucial and therefore - lost. This same thing is a reality today in christianity.
It would be infinitely more helpful to provide an exegesis and exposition of the various types of knowledge in scripture and contrast them to each other and wisdom, prudence, and understanding.

There is, indeed, a difference in various knowledges in scripture; but "head" versus "heart" doesn't help much.