The Need for Apostolic Ministry

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Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#61
No new foundation is to be laid but built upon but Paul said be careful how we build , the Apostles would have to be in agreement with the Originals not building new doctrine but enforcing it , the thought that the apostles were grand leaders is not so but were humble men that sacrificed their lives for Christ the need for apostolic ministry is of more need now to bring some healing upon lives to train the church its body to be at war to set aside the variances of denominational divisions or do away with them for an apostle comes with a special anointing from God and has an open ccommunication with The Lord ...we must remember the priesthood of Jesus He came with blessings like Melchizedek came blessing with bread and wine now Jesus came blessing with the same but fulfilled the promise with his own body and His blood laid on the cross ....a sign of His sacrifice the cross His blood His life spilled on the cross for all of us to live , and we will remember His death in Our hearts when we take His flesh it simbolizes to live upon the Word of God to Die by Living his righteousness everyday waking up starting new , take this cup this is the blood of the new covenant do this in remembrance of me says the Lord , the blood of his sacrifice by drinking of the cup we acknowledge the start of a new life the new life we live ,we also a knowledge His death and die with our Lord but live with Him Forever , a the putting away the Old man and living by the Word fully confessing The Lord With our daily lives as a living sacrifice ....A symbolism of Our new lives with Christ ... The apostles today will not be in disorder but in accordance one mind in Christ one body in Spirit one Accord a selflessness .. To bring a unity not dissensions that the Word be made manifest ..
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#62
Sincerely want to be a real Apostolic Ministry? Forget most of what you learned in Church. Trace the Church history all the way back to the Nicolaitons. Start there, do the research to make sure you have the only true doctrine, the one of Messiah. The rest will fit together like a puzzle.
Yes, what church generally teaches is not the Biblical 'method' of church. Paul said that no foundation can be laid except the true foundation: Jesus Christ. I.e. nothing can be preached that doesn't come from the true foundation or else it is false or not whole.
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#63
No new foundation is to be laid but built upon but Paul said be careful how we build , the Apostles would have to be in agreement with the Originals not building new doctrine but enforcing it , the thought that the apostles were grand leaders is not so but were humble men that sacrificed their lives for Christ the need for apostolic ministry is of more need now to bring some healing upon lives to train the church its body to be at war to set aside the variances of denominational divisions or do away with them for an apostle comes with a special anointing from God and has an open ccommunication with The Lord ...we must remember the priesthood of Jesus He came with blessings like Melchizedek came blessing with bread and wine now Jesus came blessing with the same but fulfilled the promise with his own body and His blood laid on the cross ....a sign of His sacrifice the cross His blood His life spilled on the cross for all of us to live , and we will remember His death in Our hearts when we take His flesh it simbolizes to live upon the Word of God to Die by Living his righteousness everyday waking up starting new , take this cup this is the blood of the new covenant do this in remembrance of me says the Lord , the blood of his sacrifice by drinking of the cup we acknowledge the start of a new life the new life we live ,we also a knowledge His death and die with our Lord but live with Him Forever , a the putting away the Old man and living by the Word fully confessing The Lord With our daily lives as a living sacrifice ....A symbolism of Our new lives with Christ ... The apostles today will not be in disorder but in accordance one mind in Christ one body in Spirit one Accord a selflessness .. To bring a unity not dissensions that the Word be made manifest ..
Yes, apostles do much to promote unity among Christians and churches and different races and ethnic groups rather than cause or foster or promote or water the denominationalism and divisions and cliques that we have today. Without revelation, we can never really know what the Bible is saying, so I pray that God will give everyone reading this particular thread revelation about what His Word says about the apostolic ministry and all the other ministries for today as well as how God feels about this ministry and the other four for our day and time. God bless all.
 
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danschance

Guest
#64
I guess I should ask why you believe that. The Bible says that everything that Jesus started endures till eternity. This includes the apostolic ministry.
I believe there are apostles on the earth now, but I think your logic is flawed above.
 
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danschance

Guest
#65
And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, Eph. 4:11
I find this verse helpful in this debate. To those who claim apostles are no more then we do not have pastors, teachers or evangelists either, as they are all listed together. There are apostles today, but they are not the same as they were in the the early church. We are entering into a new phase, they count down to the end of this age. The apostles God is raising up now are the harbingers of what is to come. Those apostles who are to come will be fighting to keep the church in order and viable.
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#66
Danny my boy, for once we agree.... I do believe their is still people God use to baptize with the Holy Spirit. It is a gift God gave to the Apostles. when we read Acts 8 and the conversion of the City of Samaria. We see how Philip went tot he city and cleaned it of all evil, but even after they were all baptized by this HOLY SPIRIT FILLED man, the Holy Spirit did not fall on NONE of them YET.

And when the Apostles heard of Samaria, they send John and Peter, and they layed hands on them and they all reveived the Holy Spirit... This would rather mullify the water baptism that Philip gave them. What is the use of a water baptism if the Spirit does not FALL on you. Even done by a Holy Spirit filled Philip. The people still needed the HANDS of the Apostles...

How is it done today? Who can share with us about how you received the Holy Spirit, and also give Scripture of how it is similar to someone in the Bible... I have not received Him YET, but I do believe I will. Amen!
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#67
I believe there are apostles on the earth now, but I think your logic is flawed above.
It's easy to disagree. A superior Life in Christ is one of agreement. We remain agreeable until further is revealed. I like one of many available paraphrases for Ps. 133:1 which says, "How good and how pleasant it is when brethren dwell together in unity." My own paraphrase says, "How good and how pleasant it is when brethren agree agreeably in agreement." Amen. In Christ, it isn't about good or bad logic but about agreement. Love it is, alone, that covers a multitude of sins. On the other hand, it is also right to ask what my logic is before disagreeing. Most communication is non-verbal, therefore, discerning what a person is saying on paper is also not necessarily simple.
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#68
Danny my boy, for once we agree.... I do believe their is still people God use to baptize with the Holy Spirit. It is a gift God gave to the Apostles. when we read Acts 8 and the conversion of the City of Samaria. We see how Philip went tot he city and cleaned it of all evil, but even after they were all baptized by this HOLY SPIRIT FILLED man, the Holy Spirit did not fall on NONE of them YET.

And when the Apostles heard of Samaria, they send John and Peter, and they layed hands on them and they all reveived the Holy Spirit... This would rather mullify the water baptism that Philip gave them. What is the use of a water baptism if the Spirit does not FALL on you. Even done by a Holy Spirit filled Philip. The people still needed the HANDS of the Apostles...

How is it done today? Who can share with us about how you received the Holy Spirit, and also give Scripture of how it is similar to someone in the Bible... I have not received Him YET, but I do believe I will. Amen!
Cobus, the Bible says God's ways are higher than ours. In summary, that means that God is light years ahead of us in intelligence (intelligence here covering not just His knowledge but also His ways). I say this first to help you understand that the Bible doesn't spell out everything but that for the most part, generalities are given to us as an overall so that we would depend on the Spirit to 'fill in the blanks'. The Bible is like a house that is built but without any furniture or people living within; the Holy Spirit, when He teaches us, is like reading between the lines or adding furniture and life to the inside of the house. Solomon said, "Through wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches" (Pro. 24:3-4). The Bible is the house (wisdom); the Holy Spirit is the One who adds the understanding and knowledge, establishing us (understanding) in the truth and blessing us (knowledge) with it. I say all this to say that the Bible shows several different ways that the Holy Spirit 'fell on people' (e.g. He came on John the Baptist in the womb, on Jesus at the Jordan, on the 120 on Pentecost like wind and fire, on Cornelius' household as Peter simply preached, on others by the laying on of hands, etc.); but the Bible doesn't restrict how people may be baptized in the Spirit. The Bible gives an overview and basically says, "This is the way, walk in it" (Isa. 30:21); but it is the Holy Spirit who fills in all the blanks, answering questions and addressing issues not directly addressed in the Bible. I can share how I received the Holy Spirit:

I was actually on an Amtrak train en route from Baltimore to Atlanta in March '98. I was already a Christian but was convinced that God didn't know who I was and resolved to live life my way in Atlanta; but when everyone had fallen asleep and I was still wrestling with insomnia (or maybe it was that Mountain Dew I drank), I opened the Bible and flipped listlessly through it. As I was thinking, "This Book is 2,000 years old, irrelevant for today", the Holy Spirit suddenly rushed into my coach and over my head like wind and completely filled it... and the rest is history.

There are apparently different types of infillings also. Few things regarding God's ways can be cornered, confined, or restricted to our own beliefs as God's ways are higher than ours and cannot possibly be leashed by our finite minds and beliefs and thoughts. For instance, read the story of when Philip preached to the Ethiopian eunuch in Acts 8. The Bible says that after Philip baptized the eunuch in water, the Spirit caught Philip away, and the eunuch went on his way rejoicing... but is there something between the lines that the Bible doesn't mention? Previously, Philip ministered in Samaria, but apostles were needed to come down and cause the Spirit to fall. There was no apostle around when Philip baptized the eunuch in water, yet would God, who apparently acknowledged the need for people to be baptized in the Spirit just recently with Philip in Samaria, send this important official back to Candace, Queen of Ethiopia, hoping he would spread the gospel without baptizing him in the Spirit? It seems to me that the eunuch received his Spirit baptism at the very time that the Spirit separated Philip from him (caught Philip away) sort of like when God suddenly caught Elijah away from Elisha but left Elisha with Elijah's mantle. It's food for thought, and whoever wishes to know (and seeks) will have it revealed to him. So, the Bible doesn't tell all the ways the Spirit baptizes people; but if He can baptize a baby inside the womb, it's hard to think that He can't baptize a person at any moment (as mine happened) or time, even an astronaut at work in outer space.
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#69
Danny my boy, for once we agree.... I do believe their is still people God use to baptize with the Holy Spirit. It is a gift God gave to the Apostles. when we read Acts 8 and the conversion of the City of Samaria. We see how Philip went tot he city and cleaned it of all evil, but even after they were all baptized by this HOLY SPIRIT FILLED man, the Holy Spirit did not fall on NONE of them YET.

And when the Apostles heard of Samaria, they send John and Peter, and they layed hands on them and they all reveived the Holy Spirit... This would rather mullify the water baptism that Philip gave them. What is the use of a water baptism if the Spirit does not FALL on you. Even done by a Holy Spirit filled Philip. The people still needed the HANDS of the Apostles...

How is it done today? Who can share with us about how you received the Holy Spirit, and also give Scripture of how it is similar to someone in the Bible... I have not received Him YET, but I do believe I will. Amen!
Cobus, I forgot to add that you should read the story of Philip's encounter with the eunuch which is right after the incident you referred to above. I think that looking at it after reading what I shared will give some new light on the occurrence between Philip and the eunuch and perhaps an unwritten occurrence that happened between the eunuch and the Holy Spirit. Also, you said to give an example of someone in the Bible whose experience is similar to [mine]. Paul. Paul had his plans made up and was en route from one place to another when the Lord suddenly apprehended him and turned his life around. Now, the Bible records that Ananias prayed for Paul (Saul) and said that Jesus sent him to do so in order that Paul receive his sight and be filled with the Spirit. Right after that happens, the Bible then says Paul got baptized. (There's no hard and fast rule regarding both water and Spirit baptism.) I myself was en route from one city to another with my own plans (not killing Christians, however) when the Lord and the Holy Spirit intercepted me in a totally unexpected way. Some people receive all three at the same time (conversion, water baptism, and Spirit baptism); most people receive them separately as we often see in the Bible. My own favorite two instances of the Holy Spirit falling are the day of Pentecost and Cornelius' house.
 
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danschance

Guest
#70
we have to remember that the role of the apostles in the church is a -foundational- role...

ephesians 2:19-22..."So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord, in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit."

if there are new apostles being appointed today...then that would imply that there is new foundation being laid in the church today...

which would raise the question...why would the church need new foundation?

the truth is that the foundation has already been laid...by the original new testament apostles...the church doesn't need new foundation...we just need to build on the foundation the apostles already laid down...

now there are apostles today...they are all in heaven now...but their apostolic ministry continues as they continue to serve as the foundation that the church is being built on...so they are still apostles...

but there aren't any new apostles because there is no need for the church to be refounded...
Where does it say that all the apostles do is lay a foundation? Did they not do much more?

In the New Testament we see apostles engaged in evangelism, casting out demons, healing the sick, raising the dead, ministering church discipline, planting churches, writing scripture, dealing with heresy and confronting false doctrine. Most of the things on my list are still needed today. The only thing I see on my list that one might call foundational is writing scripture and that is certainly laid.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#71
Yes the issues today are many too many we will see a change but remember the scripture 13 Enter all of you in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leads to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leads unto life, and few there be that find it.
 
May 3, 2013
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#72
After the 12 I see no need for more apostles, particularly if these are "above" Jesus´ teachings.

Mar 10:42 Jesus called all the followers together. He said, "The non-Jewish people have men they call rulers. You know that those rulers love to show their power over the people. And their important leaders love to use all their authority over the people.
Mar 10:43 But it should not be that way with you. Whoever wants to be your leader must be your servant.
Mar 10:44 Whoever wants to be first must serve the rest of you like a slave.
Mar 10:45 Follow my example: Even the Son of Man did not come for people to serve him. He came to serve others and to give his life to save many people."

Hierarchy systems have made what we now believe is the ideal "church"...

Here´s an article some might read:

How the Apostolic Pentecostal Religion was Started - Yahoo Voices - voices.yahoo.com
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
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#74
Well the apostolic church was started originally by the apostles themselves but due to much corruption due to the rebellious there are many that do not accept authority that take God's word as a convenience but God ordained the order but the unleavened would be believers always oppoaing
 
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Reformedjason

Guest
#75
Maybe it should be said that we need to be more like the apostles which would tell you be more like christ. The true apostolic age is over. We are now in the age of the church.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#77
No the apostolic age is still here just no real believers , who is willing to believe who will preach a true gospel not according to personal perception but under the complete backing of God almighty , one that listens to the holy Ghost one that obeys true doctrine left by the apostles just not picking and choosing and not truly seeking from Jesus through the Holy Ghost , not a hearer of the Word but a doer ? For Jesus said why do you call me Lord ? Because if He were truly Lord we would do what He says and disobeying the apostles is like disobeying God for the apostle Paul said that if any man deemed himself to be spiritual or a prophet , let him a knowledge that the things He writes unto us are the commandments of God , but if a man be ignorant let him be ignorant , as for me I will believe the holy Word and not a man or science not my own thoughts but strictly under guidance of the Holy Ghost in Jesus through His Holy Word for Jesus said he that maketh himself as a child shall enter the kingdom of heaven , we must believe and live in all manner of holiness for Jesus even said we must be perfect as He is , for it is written be holy for I am holy , not live in disgrace but in grace to remain under grace , because it is possible to not know Jesus at all and say they do because it is nothing more than lip service because it is written these people honor me with their lips but their hearts are so far away , in these words say they tell me they love me but their actions do otherwise denying Him that created them in very action God's true language the language of the mind body and soul aligned with Him a true faith excersized this is a commandment after all for we were once sinners but now we are dead to our sins and alive in Christ partakers in His death , and also partakers in His resurrection in His image so that He does the work for us , the question is , are you dead for Christthat he may live instead ? Has the man of war died in you ? That you may enter the promised land ? DO you obey God ? As for me and my house we serve the Lord , who do you serve ? Who is your Lord ? Don't let him answer you depart from me those that worketh iniquity on that day but instead remain on his right side by doing the will of the Father , Jesus will judge according to the word , so if you do not live by the word the same word will have already judged you because you have not truly have died for Christ but instead let us die for Christ to be alive in us doing the will of a him that sent Him be holy for he is Holy in all manner and speech and action . listen the giftings are still there the offices are still there but nobody listens or do they? What God has ordained stands for ever ....
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#78
My favorite sermon in the Book of Acts is when spoke to the Athenians from where we get some notable philosophers. Even Luke commented with subtle disdain that the Athenians did nothing but sit around and talk about new ideas and philosophies. We find that our world is basically the same today. People who intellectualize things aren't able to grasp the things of God but consider them to be incredibly absurd. It's no wonder that Pauls' address to the Athenian philosophers is my favorite sermon in Acts; I'm surrounded by 'philosophers', and the only way to reach people who use their brains all the time is to speak their language.

We tend to over-spiritualize the Bible without being aware of it. For instance, we generally believe (subconsciously; we aren't aware we believe this way though we live it every week) that there are set times for God (Sunday morning and night, maybe Wednesday, etc.) and then set times for us. There's no drop of truth or even rationale in that belief system; God requires our whole life. Church isn't about set times but about living under God's Grace all the time. We also sometimes over-simplify the Bible. One of the ways we do this is by reading what it says on the surface and then saying, "And there's nothing more to know." Really. The Bible is eerily silent on some very pressing issues: slavery, child abuse, molestation. Even where the Bible specifically condemns certain things, it leaves other things out. If we are to be judge the Bible the way we do, then we must in all integrity say that we are free to believe or do whatever the Bible doesn't specifically address or condemn. Let me introduce (or attempt to introduce) a better way to understand what the Bible is saying when it is saying something and when it is silent:

Regarding the apostolic ministry and apostles for today (as well as prophets and most other things where there's a large consensus), many Christians who say this ministry is no longer for today have no 'proof' but what they misconstrue on the surface of the Bible. Let me share a secret, a gift which I know only those who desire to know will ever be able to employ: if you really want to understand (know more than the surface reading) what the Bible is and is not saying-- what it means where meaning isn't explained in writing-- you must stop relying on what you read but on what you see. Hidden in what Paul says is this principle: "The Kingdom of God does not consist in (is not dependent on, is not built on, is not maintained by) words but in power" (1Cor. 3:20). How does this apply to looking for what the Bible shows more than what it says? This way: we all must admit that there are indeed places where the Bible does contradict itself on the surface or in the words. God did this to 'force' us to think-- to think of or look for a better way to look at the Bible. And that's the secret; don't just read; look. The Bible seems to say we need faith to be healed... but we see Jesus healing all people... and common sense tells us that they didn't all have faith as if they were better people than we are today who aren't being healed. The answer (or knowledge or wisdom) is not in what is written on the pages as it is in what is shown or acted out. When we go by the writing, we argue and debate; but when we look at what is actually shown, our disagreements will be much less from lack of knowledge and more for motives like selfish ambition, personal problems with each other, etc. Jesus said to the Saducees, "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God" (Mt. 22:29). We are also in error not primarily because of our different beliefs, but because we usually don't know the Scriptures nor God's power.

Finally, what I mean to say by all this as regards apostles and apostolic ministry today: when you look at the Bible's words, you may become a Pharisee and never know it till Jesus stands right in front of you (i.e. you may reject and resist His words without knowing you are doing it!); but if you will look (let your non-religious, non-separation-of-Church-and-life part of you just be) at all the functions of the first apostles, then you will begin to see that apostles today isn't about doctrine, discussion, and debate (all the religious things); it is about common sense and practicality. The offices that apostles are created to fill still exist today, and therefore apostles must still fill them. This is the simple way of looking at the Bible. Believe me, looking at the Bible the simple way will save you from Pharisaism in a hurry. This is why Jesus says that unless we come to Him as little children (seeing things simply and not complicating things), we can't enter or experience His Kingdom here but will be dry boards who can barely get along with especially unbelievers where Jesus got along swimmingly with them.

Two men went to cut down a tree. One brought his favorite axe, because he thought he could chop down anything with it; the other brought his large chainsaw, because he had heard that the tree they had to cut down was a very large one. When they found the tree they would cut down, it was a very large oak. The one with the axe looked at the size of the tree, then at his axe. He then grudgingly admitted to the one with the chainsaw that his axe wasn't going to cut it' and that they needed to use the chainsaw. So it is with the apostolic ministry today.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
2,105
39
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#79
The kingdom of Heaven is a kingdom of the Spirit a righteous kingdom , so what I have to say is what God has shown me to live as I were in heaven not the flesh but we must be diligent and not fight the word that they may find themselves enemies of God but instead believe for God has ordained like so he gave some apostles some prophets some evangelist some pastors and teachers all for the edification of the body of Christ that there should be no schism do not reject the word but be doers of the word not living in ignorance but in truth
 
Feb 17, 2010
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#80
Allin, sorry I respond only now. Yes about the Eneuch I have this in my mind. The man had a hunger for the Word of God, but there were no NEW TESTIMENT for him to know tht Jesus is the ONLY way. So all God did with Phillip was to let the Eneuch put His focus on Jesus (the Holy Spirit).

Here is the Scripture we SHOULD NOT FORGET... God ays people will hate His disciples but despite the fact that they are already hated for HIS Name sake, they should STILL ENDURE to the end BEFORE they will be saved. Now this is the thing I have to know.... Why do people hate God's disciples, and they are still not ssaved? I would understand if they are FILLED with the Holy Spirit, but they DO NOT HAVE HIM YET!

You see when God saves a person God implants HIS HOLY SPIRIT in the flesh of the OLD MAN. And the man becomes a NEW CREATURE IN CHRIST. That is what salvaation means. And that happens at the END OF THE ENDURING PART. No man is saved, and are not FILLED with the Holy Spirit. And that Spirit will NEVER leave the man again (1 John 3:9). Making the man a HOLY MAN OF GOD (2 Peter 1:21). This man CANNOT sin and DOES NOT sin EVER! (1 John 5:18) This man is a NEW CREATURE with a NEW MIND; God' mind! Ezek 36:26 and 27.

Alling a man BORN of God is now a human, he is a heavenly CREATURE in CHRIST. God says ALL is new... even the MIND. The complete transformation of the BORN OF GOD MAN, is God working on a man untill the man LOOKS EXACTLY like HIS SON CHRIST JESUS! That is what God does, and that is what God teach. If a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, that person is EXACTLY as glorious as Jesus was when He was here.

You see God's salvation is HIS SALVATION and the saved are HIS COMPLETE WORK... How wonderful God is to still save sinners.