The pilots group

[RickyZ]

A boy is born and grows with an innate connection to aviation. It leads him to hang out at airports, where he meets people and ends up snagging rides in people's planes. Of course the people mentor and allow him to handle the controls, and before long he's flying the planes as if it were his second nature.

The boy decides that to round out his experience he needs to read some pilot manuals. So he reads and as he does he thinks 'gee yes according to what I've done this is what this paragraph means' and 'oh hey I never would have understood this page if I hadn't had the practical experience with it'. The pilots manual comes together and makes perfect sense by virtue of his already having worked the controls.

So the boy joins a pilots group. But he finds among the group that there are those who have studied in depth, and memorized, every single page of the manual. But they've never actually been in a plane, much less handled the controls, and somehow in that lack of experiencial understanding they have decided that planes can't fly. And so they spend their time quoting the manual and relating that to their misconception that planes can't fly.

So who's right here? Those who ignore the buzzing going on over their heads and insist that the maual says you can't fly, or the boy who understands the manual by virtue of having actually put it's concepts to work?

 

[T_Laurich]

Very nice analogy about trusting in the full Power of God... He is the same from 4,000 years ago till now... And actually following what the bible helps us to understand...

(At least that is what I got from it)

 

[BeanieD]

Very well done, and when we look at it like our lives as christians, it makes perfect sense. I know those who have read the "manuel" from front to end many times but still have no clue about the reality.

Amen Ricky Z God bless

 

[RickyZ]

Thank you. As adamantly as some claim the gifts are dead, that's how adamantly I intend to prove that they aren't.

But I think my last paragraph was mis-spoken. It shouldn't be a competition of who's 'right', it's more about who's understanding is fuller. When we see thru the glass darkly it's hard to claim 'right' because even a 'right' vision will be clouded. It's more about degree of clarity and completeness of understanding, and the pitfalls of an incomplete understanding. And again, the greatest pitfall of an incomplete understanding is that God cannot work miracles or gifts thru those who don't understand that He does still work them.

That, and possibly blaspheming the Holy Spirit (even if it is done innocently).

 

[AvalonXQ]

So who's right here? Those who ignore the buzzing going on over their heads and insist that the maual says you can't fly, or the boy who understands the manual by virtue of having actually put it's concepts to work?

If someone insists that planes can't fly, you can go out and show them one; you can take them out to fly in one.

Where can I go to have someone show me a miracle? I don't believe I'm "ignoring the buzzing over my head;" I believe I've encountered a lot of fraudulent miracles and have yet to be shown a real one. If it's possible to see one, I would really like to.

 

[zone]

If someone insists that planes can't fly, you can go out and show them one; you can take them out to fly in one.

they won't take you to the airport to show you a plane and take you up in one, because you apparently 'don't believe planes can fly/exist'.

the plane as the illustration is intellectually dishonest, since we all see and fly in planes every day.

i can tell you that as a dull Christian-sky-pilot, who only 'studies the manual' but 'parently does it in spite of not believing a plane exists - or can fly - that makes me pretty pitiful, wouldn't you say?

nah...this is the kind of stuff that makes a mockery of what's recorded and totally ignores the purpose of the miracles anyway - to confirm the Deity of Christ and the authority He gave His eyewitnesses, so that all who hear their words would believe that Jesus is the Son of God, who takes away the sin of the world.

 

[AvalonXQ]

So, nobody is going to tell me where I can go to see a miracle? I can tell you where to go to see an airplane.

 

[Brother_Don]

if we can not see the miracles in our every day lives, it doesn't matter where we go to see one, we won't see it.

 

[RickyZ]

So, nobody is going to tell me where I can go to see a miracle? I can tell you where to go to see an airplane.

Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

 

[AvalonXQ]

Matthew 13:58 And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

So, as was said earlier, your analogy is not an honest one. People believe planes can fly because we see planes flying. When I ask you where I can see a miracle, you come up with excuses as to why I can't see one.

 

[phil36]

I understand what you are saying ricky. It is very true that you can know scripture yet not live it. However, it's the word and the Holy Spirit working that changes hearts in the first place... but to come back to your analogy, having your heart renewed by the HOLY spirit should drive you to the 'manual' and live it.

 

[RickyZ]

So, as was said earlier, your analogy is not an honest one. People believe planes can fly because we see planes flying. When I ask you where I can see a miracle, you come up with excuses as to why I can't see one.

Fair enough. How about if Jesus comes up with excuses as to why you can't see them?

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/74773-why-you-see-why-you-dont.html

 

[AvalonXQ]

Fair enough. How about if Jesus comes up with excuses as to why you can't see them?

Jesus never said that miracles were the same as flying planes - that was all you.

But thanks for letting me know that I won't see miracles unless I already believe that they happen today. That tells me all I need to know about how real they are.

(Hint: not as real as airplanes.)

 

[RickyZ]

So, I tell you in my words, you don't buy that;

I show you in Jesus' words, and you don't buy that either...

Ephphatha!

(which means “Be opened!”).

Mark 7:34


The point is, you don't have to go anywhere to see miracles happen. If you have faith and believe, they will happen around you. I went to the beach, and saw a miracle. I went to a concert, and saw a miracle. I went on a wild goose chase, and saw a miracle. All because I was willing to seek the Lord about something, and when He was willing, to be the conduit thru which His power went from Spiritual to physical. And that would never happen if I did not know that miracles are indeed just as real as airplanes.

 

[AvalonXQ]

So, I tell you in my words, you don't buy that;

I show you in Jesus' words, and you don't buy that either...

Ephphatha!

(which means “Be opened!”).

Mark 7:34


The point is, you don't have to go anywhere to see miracles happen. If you have faith and believe, they will happen around you. I went to the beach, and saw a miracle. I went to a concert, and saw a miracle. I went on a wild goose chase, and saw a miracle. All because I was willing to seek the Lord about something, and when He was willing, to be the conduit thru which His power went from Spiritual to physical. And that would never happen if I did not know that miracles are indeed just as real as airplanes.

And that's the difference - someone can take me in an airplane and it will fly exactly the same way even if I don't believe in it.

 

[overcomer2]

If someone insists that planes can't fly, you can go out and show them one; you can take them out to fly in one.

Where can I go to have someone show me a miracle? I don't believe I'm "ignoring the buzzing over my head;" I believe I've encountered a lot of fraudulent miracles and have yet to be shown a real one. If it's possible to see one, I would really like to.

I read this and immediately thought of this scripture:
[h=3]Luke 16:31[/h]
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

 

[RickyZ]

And that's the difference - someone can take me in an airplane and it will fly exactly the same way even if I don't believe in it.

So you'll put your faith in the tangibility of an airplane, but none in the words of your Lord.

Wow. Tell me, why believe in a God if you're not going to believe what He says?

 

[notuptome]

I can fly airplanes and the hangars are full of pilots who never get off the ground. They speak of their exploits and are truly legends in their own minds. Pilots who have actually flown an airplane can see right through their fantastic tales and know they are not genuine.

There are miracles everyday in our lives. Many are the direct result of the prayers of faithful saints of God laying hold of the throne of grace in intercessory prayers. There are however no miracle workers like the Lord Jesus in the church today. Those with the gift of perception will perceive the rest of the story. For others it would truly be a miracle if they understand.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[john832]

Very well done, and when we look at it like our lives as christians, it makes perfect sense. I know those who have read the "manuel" from front to end many times but still have no clue about the reality.

Amen Ricky Z God bless

I know some who have never read the manual, talk about not having a clue.

 

[john832]

Just out of curiosity, would you like to take a transatlantic flight on a 787 flown by a pilot that has never cracked a book?