The Pope Is Antichrist - Teaching done by Pastor Gregory Gregory A. Miller

[Widdekind]

The "Beast" waged war against the Saints, and over-came them for 42 months (Rev 11,13), from 67-70 AD.

The "Beast" wage war against the Saints thereafter (Rev 17), but was eventually defeated (Rev 19), in the 4th century AD.

"Beast" = pagan Roman empire
"7 heads" = Caesar, Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula, Claudius, Nero...
"7 horns" = later pagan emperors
Word-warrior (Rev 19) = Church converting Roman world with preaching of Gospel = Council of Nicaea, Constantine, Theodosius (4th century AD)

Earth & human history moved beyond that epoch in ancient times. There is no more "Babylon" (Jerusalem fell in 70 AD), there is no more "Beast" (Rome fell in 476 AD), there is no more "Millennium" (Constantinople fell in 1453 AD).

The modern era is the "End Times" = Rev 20:7-9

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Word-warrior (Rev 19) = Church converting Roman world with preaching of Gospel = Council of Nicaea, Constantine, Theodosius (4th century AD)

the person in that passage is -christ himself- at his return...not constantine...

more likely constantine is the first horseman that comes when the first seal is opened...

and like i already pointed out elsewhere...the corrupt byzantine empire and its often equally corrupt church were hardly a millennial reign of christ...

 

[peterT]

The "Beast" waged war against the Saints, and over-came them for 42 months (Rev 11,13), from 67-70 AD.

The "Beast" wage war against the Saints thereafter (Rev 17), but was eventually defeated (Rev 19), in the 4th century AD.

"Beast" = pagan Roman empire
"7 heads" = Caesar, Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula, Claudius, Nero...
"7 horns" = later pagan emperors
Word-warrior (Rev 19) = Church converting Roman world with preaching of Gospel = Council of Nicaea, Constantine, Theodosius (4th century AD)

Earth & human history moved beyond that epoch in ancient times. There is no more "Babylon" (Jerusalem fell in 70 AD), there is no more "Beast" (Rome fell in 476 AD), there is no more "Millennium" (Constantinople fell in 1453 AD).

The modern era is the "End Times" = Rev 20:7-9

Which man’s BOOKS do I have to read to learn all that ?

That’s just nonsense.

 

[Widdekind]

Rachel --

in Christ's second coming, he will have glowing eyes, and a sword-tongue ??

Was there ever, on earth, a monstrous beast, with 7 heads, and 10 horns ??

Revelation is symbolic. The fantastic images ("Beast", Word-warrior) are symbols. They are like hieroglyphs. The symbols mean something, but are not themselves the real thing.

"Beast" = pagan Roman empire
Word-warrior = Church (Christ = Church = body of believers)
sword-tongue = preaching Gospel
glowing eyes = animated by Holy Spirit
victory over Beast = conversion of pagan empire
"slaying" foes = converting pagans, whose Baptisms "slay" them to the world, as they are reborn Christians​

Revelation is symbolic. Revelation is a string of fantastic hieroglyphic runes. Those symbols must be interpreted, not taken literally. Revelation is not talking about "Beasts" and sword-tongued glowing-eyed Word warriors; but the conflict between the pagan Roman empire, and the Church, in symbolic code.

the person in that passage is -christ himself- at his return...not constantine...

more likely constantine is the first horseman that comes when the first seal is opened...

and like i already pointed out elsewhere...the corrupt byzantine empire and its often equally corrupt church were hardly a millennial reign of christ...

 

[Widdekind]

Revelation...

Revelation is written in symbolic code. But Revelation includes its own "secret decoder". In Rev 13 & 17, the word "Wisdom" (Hagia) clues us in, to decode the book.

"Beast" = 666... is Nero Caesar
"7 heads" of which "5 have fallen, 1 is" = Caesar, Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula, Claudius, Nero

Note, the "7 heads" are also "7 hills", the 7 hills of Rome. In 64 AD, 5/7ths of Rome was destroyed by a fire (10 of 14 districts). So, 5 Caesars had passed away, and 5 hills had been burned down.

Revelation was written circa 66 AD, under the 6th Caesar of Rome (Nero), whose name is numerologically equivalent to 666.

Which man’s BOOKS do I have to read to learn all that ?

That’s just nonsense.

 

[7seven7]

Where are your statistics that support this claim?
I realize that what is happening in the U.S. may not be an accurate representation of the world (maybe somebody has the world stats and we could compare them to U.S. stats to see how they compare and see if the decline of Catholicism is world wide or if the U.S. is an isolated case.
Just as an example let’s look at the Catholic church in the U.S. In 1965 there were 58,632 Catholic priests, in 2012 ther were only 38,964 a decline of almost 20,000 which is approximately a 33 ½% decrease. In 1965 only 549 out of 17637 (or approximately 3%) of Catholic parishes were without a resident priest pastor, in 2012 3389 out of 17,644 parishes (or approximately 19.2%) of Catholic parishes were without a resident pastor an increase of 16%. In 1965 the U.S. population was 194,302,963 and according to The Offical Catholic directory there were 45.6 million Catholics making the Catholics about 23% of the U.S. population. In 2012 the U.S. population was 312,780, 968 and according to The Official Catholic directly there were 66.3 million Catholics making the Catholics about 21% of the U.S. population, a decreas of approximately 2%. You can see more stats on U.S. Catholic churches HERE <click

JMHO but from my perspective it looks like Catholicism is on the decline. If Protestants were clamoring back to the papacy wouldn’t Catholicism be on the rise, instead of declining?


What wound did Catholicism suffer that has now been healed? I don’t see the world wonder after Catholicism.

Since 1970, Catholicism has seen a global shift southwards - the proportion of Catholics living in Europe has declined, while Africa has seen a growth in the number of Catholics - from 45 million in 1970 to 176 million in 2012. Asia has also seen a growth in Catholicism and now represents almost 12% of the total Catholic population in the world, or 137 million people.

Seems the USA is not isolated in the decline, but there sure is a massive growth in many parts of the world "wondering" after Catholicism. Numbers don't matter anyway. But some of the most well versed Protestants have turned to the Holy Catholic Church after years of battle with their pride and egos coming to terms with the Truth that the Catholic Church holds. Not saying the Catholic Church is the only Church to hold any truth. Would you like me to name some, and maybe even post some of their conversion stories? Lets remember here that these were some of the most WELL VERSED Protestants and most educated in Protestant beliefs. Let me know if you like and I'll post some of their conversion stories up. Its really beautiful to hear the enthusiasm in their voices after realising so much Truth. God bless.

P.S- Scott Hahn is a good one to start with. Look him up on Youtube. Brilliant

 

[peterT]

Revelation...

Revelation is written in symbolic code. But Revelation includes its own "secret decoder". In Rev 13 & 17, the word "Wisdom" (Hagia) clues us in, to decode the book.

"Beast" = 666... is Nero Caesar
"7 heads" of which "5 have fallen, 1 is" = Caesar, Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula, Claudius, Nero

Note, the "7 heads" are also "7 hills", the 7 hills of Rome. In 64 AD, 5/7ths of Rome was destroyed by a fire (10 of 14 districts). So, 5 Caesars had passed away, and 5 hills had been burned down.

Revelation was written circa 66 AD, under the 6th Caesar of Rome (Nero), whose name is numerologically equivalent to 666.

Which man’s BOOKS do I NEED to read to learn all that ? lol

That’s just nonsense.

 

[7seven7]

I just thought about something else after looking up those stats about Catholic numbers around the world. It seems that the numbers of Catholics around the world are declining in the more well-to-do countries and increasing in the less fortunate countries. Christ came for the sick and the poor, and the oppressed. I love the way His Church strengthens in the regions where it is most needed. I love how His Church is always shown to be doing work (proven by stats like those i've shown above for a start) in those less fortunate and oppressed regions. Amen. Praise the Lord!!!
"And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

 

[ChosenbyHim]

ChosenbyHim, it might be more profitable if you wrote out what you believed, instead of posting links to what other people believe. Of course, that is just my opinion!

Hey there Angela, I thank you for sharing your opinion with me. Well I do share what I believe on this Christian Forum. I do that quite often.

And here are a few of the things which I believe and know: I believe that the King James Authorized Holy Bible is God's perfect and inerrant word. I believe in the Pre-tribulation rapture.

I am against the Post Trib. view of the rapture because it is a false teaching and it falsely teaches that Christians will have to go through the tribulation, which is totally false.

I am for & I believe in the the pre-millenial view which is that Jesus Christ will physically reign from the city of Jerusalem for 1,000 years. And Jesus Christ will reign on this Earth from Jerusalem for 1,000 years. You can be assured of that.

I am against the Post millennial view because it wrongly teaches that man will bring in the 1,000 year kingdom. Which is heresy. Man couldn't even bring 250 years of peace to come about on this earth. So how in the world could mankind bring in a thousand years of peace? Man cannot bring it in. Therefore this view that man will bring in the 1,000 year kingdom is the most dumb and idiotic theory and idea ever developed by men.

And I also am against the Amillennial view. Which wrongly teaches that Christ will not reign on this Earth for 1,000 literal years. So the amillennialists deny the Physical future rule and messianic reign of the Lord Jesus Christ.

And that is why I am against the Amillennial view, it denies the Lord Jesus Christ a physical 1000 year reign from Jerusalem. And that is why the amillennial view teaching is wrong and is dangerous heresy.
And the Amillennial view is nothing but humanistic nonsense, just like the post-millennial view is.

Now let me say this Angela, in regard to what Brother Pastor Gregory A. Miller believes about Billy Graham as being the forerunner to antichrist. I agree with Pastor Miller. I also believe that apostate Billy Graham has done much harm to the Body of Christ.

Graham has been very friendly with the pope and the Roman Catholic Church. He even praised the Roman Catholic Mass by calling it a "very beautiful thing" (Those are Billy Graham's own words). Billy Graham is such an apostate, just look at what he said about salvation:

"I used to think that pagans in far-off countries were lost -- were going to hell -- if they did not have the Gospel of Jesus Christ preached to them. I no longer believe that. ... I believe there are other ways of recognizing the existence of God -- through nature, for instance -- and plenty of other opportunities, therefore, of saying yes to God." - Billy Graham


​

In 1966: Billy Graham said, "I find myself closer to Catholics than the radical Protestants. I think the Roman Catholic Church today is going through a second Reformation" (Philadelphia Evening Bulletin 24 may, 1966. See graduation photo from Catholic College)

In 1973: Billy Graham recommended Roman Catholic literature in the ecumenical Key '73 meetings held across North America; he especially recommended a biography of the Pope John XXIII containing hundreds of pages of devotion to Mary and the Saints, worship of the host (wafer) at the Mass, and his [the Pope's] trust in the sacraments as the means of salvation. Graham advertised this book as "a classic in devotion" (2/86 The Gospel Standard; Key '73: Congregational Resource Book).

In the year 1993: At a 7/12 interview by Joan Lunden on ABC-TV's "Good Morning America," Billy Graham said: "I'm delighted the Pope is coming [to Denver for a Catholic youth conference] ... I admire the Pope even though I don't agree with him on everything ..." [The Pope in talks this year insists that he is the infallible "Vicar of Christ." How can anyone who proclaims the one and only true Gospel ever be "delighted" that a counterfeit christ would come with a false gospel to beguile thousands of youth?]


And that is a valid question. And the reason why Billy Graham was delighted to hear that the pope was coming to youth conference is the same reason why Billy Graham admires the pope. And that is this: Billy Graham is a lukewarm apostate who is afraid of any confrontation.

Billy Graham has affirmed Roman Catholicism as the true gospel and the roman Catholics who came forward at his crusade meetings to accept Christ, those same Catholics were directed back to the Catholic churches which they had left. Not surprisingly, Billy Graham also praised Pope John Paul II as a preacher of the true gospel (Saturday Evening Post, January/February 1980). Graham also said that he and the pope agreed on almost everything. And that is unfortunate, because Pope John Paul II was trusting in Mary to save him. The Pope was not trusting in Christ Jesus for his salvation.

Also, Billy Graham received the Catholic International Franciscan Award for his contribution to true ecumenism and his sincere and authentic ecumenism. And according to the Minneapolis Star, Graham received that aware in April 21 of 1972.

Just sharing with you that documentation and information showing why Billy Graham was in deep error and apostasy in his life and ministry should be enough to show you why I believe what I believe about Billy Graham.

And sharing the video teaching by Pastor Gregory A. Miller was very profitable. Did it not occur to you Angela that one of the reasons why I shared Brother Miller's video in this Forum is that I agree with him about what he said in this video about Billy Graham? That's one of the reasons I took the time to post his video on this discussion forum. One reason is that I agree with Brother Miller's video. He was right for exposing Billy Graham.

And the other reason for sharing this video is that the masses have been tricked into believing that Billy Graham was some how a faithful minister of the Gospel. When in fact, Billy Graham is not a faithful minister. Billy Graham denied Jesus Christ as being the only way to Heaven.


Therefore I have a responsibility to warn you all about Billy Graham. Billy Graham is a false prophet and a apostate who is dangerous.

And Angela I will continue to share what other faithful Ministers of the word of God and King James Bible believing pastors out there believe in regard to different issues. And I hope you can see that the purpose of me posting this video was to simply share the truth with you all. The truth about Billy Graham. A lot of the stuff that I post on here will always be about Sound Bible Doctrine and if I share other pastors videos, you can be assured that I will only share the work and videos done by Pastors who stand by the Authorized King James Bible.

 

[zone]

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Scripture defines antichrists us for us. Which of the only 4 verses that use and define antchrists are the Catholics guilty of transgressing? Which of those 4 verses tell us antichrist is a boogeyman aka “the Antichrist” that rules the world ?

well doulos
we agree on something.

so who then, is antichrist?
are there exception clauses?
anybody get grandfathered out of that?

 

[zone]

Revelation...

Revelation is written in symbolic code. But Revelation includes its own "secret decoder". In Rev 13 & 17, the word "Wisdom" (Hagia) clues us in, to decode the book.

"Beast" = 666... is Nero Caesar
"7 heads" of which "5 have fallen, 1 is" = Caesar, Augustus, Tiberias, Caligula, Claudius, Nero

Note, the "7 heads" are also "7 hills", the 7 hills of Rome. In 64 AD, 5/7ths of Rome was destroyed by a fire (10 of 14 districts). So, 5 Caesars had passed away, and 5 hills had been burned down.

Revelation was written circa 66 AD, under the 6th Caesar of Rome (Nero), whose name is numerologically equivalent to 666.

hmmm...but:

Revelation 17:9
This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated;

the woman is actually the focus.
she is seated on those seven heads, which are referred to as mountains...in this chapter.

the woman was jerusalem. (i believe Revelation 17 is a different scene and scenario)



here are the Caesars (Roman Empire including Judea - specifically Jerusalem, the woman sitting on many waters, which are peoples tongues and nations....): 10 of them. ten horns.

Daniel 7:7
After this I saw in the night visions, and behold, a fourth beast, terrifying and dreadful and exceedingly strong. It had great iron teeth; it devoured and broke in pieces and stamped what was left with its feet. It was different from all the beasts that were before it, and it had ten horns.

Revelation 12:3
And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great red dragon, with seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads seven diadems.

okay...there are the 10 caesars who ruled the empire during the lifetime of Jesus on earth beginning with Augustus, and beyond to Titus...the closure of Daniel's prophecy.

but there are seven heads in Rev 12:3. they're not mentioned in Daniel.
who are they?

Revelation 13:1
And I saw a beast rising out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, with ten diadems on its horns and blasphemous names on its heads.

there are those two powers, together considered one beast.

so we have the Caesars...and who else?

the 7 Herods who ruled Judea under the Caesars?

they called themselves the kings of the jews.

and the Herods are most certainly identified with the great dragon.

in the days of those kings, the Stone cut without hands smashed the feet of the image - which had toes of iron and clay.
the would mingle, but not hold together.

so is rev 17 just another vision of the same scene? or is it different in an important way?

 

[peterT]

Hey there Angela, I thank you for sharing your opinion with me. Well I do share what I believe on this Christian Forum. I do that quite often.

And here are a few of the things which I believe and know: I believe that the King James Authorized Holy Bible is God's perfect and inerrant word. I believe in the Pre-tribulation rapture.

I am against the Post Trib. view of the rapture because it is a false teaching and it falsely teaches that Christians will have to go through the tribulation, which is totally false.

.

There is an event for the birth of Jesus. Three kings, born in a manger, etc etc.

There is an event for the death of Jesus. Raised from the dead after three days, etc etc.

There is an event for the 1000 year reign and we shall reign on the earth. etc etc.

There is an event for New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven etc etc.

There is an event at the last trumpet, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible etc etc.

But there is an event for Jesus coming Immediately after the tribulation, the angels gather the elect, one shall be taken and the other left etc etc.Matt24

But there is NO event in the Bible were Jesus comes BEFOR the tribulation.

But you can squeeeeeeeze some verses to make it sound like there is a pre-trib coming if you like, but there is NO event in the Bible were Jesus comes before the tribulation.


It’s just strong delusion.

There is no Jesus coming in the Bible before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were Jesus comes in the clouds before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible, of a last trumpet sounding or any trumpet sounding before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were the dead rise before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were the living rise before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were the angels do any reaping before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were you see us being gathered in the air or in the clouds before the tribulation.

There is no story in the Bible showing that Jesus will come before the great tribulation

“NOTHING” “ ZIP” DIDDLY-SQUAT. “0”.

But there is an event were Jesus comes, Immediately after the tribulation.

These so-called bible scholars have feigned the pre-tribulation coming/rapture from their own imagination.

 

[savedNblessed]

I thought Jesus had said ”Go and make disciples” and NOT play a guessing game about who the Anti-Christ is?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

There is an event for the birth of Jesus. Three kings, born in a manger, etc etc.

There is an event for the death of Jesus. Raised from the dead after three days, etc etc.

There is an event for the 1000 year reign and we shall reign on the earth. etc etc.

There is an event for New Jerusalem coming down from God out of heaven etc etc.

There is an event at the last trumpet, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible etc etc.

But there is an event for Jesus coming Immediately after the tribulation, the angels gather the elect, one shall be taken and the other left etc etc.Matt24

Well yes Peter, it is called the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Also known as the Second Advent.

But there is NO event in the Bible were Jesus comes BEFOR the tribulation.

But you can squeeeeeeeze some verses to make it sound like there is a pre-trib coming if you like, but there is NO event in the Bible were Jesus comes before the tribulation.

There is an event where Jesus comes before the time of Jacobs Trouble. It is called the catching away of the saints. Also referred to as the Imminent Rapture of the Body of Christ.

It’s just strong delusion.

There is no Jesus coming in the Bible before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were Jesus comes in the clouds before the tribulation.

Yes there is. It is called the catching away of the saints, also known as the Rapture of the Body of Christ.

There is no event in the Bible, of a last trumpet sounding or any trumpet sounding before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were the dead rise before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were the living rise before the tribulation.

There is no event in the Bible were the angels do any reaping before the tribulation.

At the Rapture of the Body of Christ, the angels are not doing any reaping. Every Christian, whether dead or alive will be translated in the twinkling of an eye and they will instantly be changed. Every Christian will have their new glorified body and we will meet the Lord Jesus in the air.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (King James Bible)

There is no event in the Bible were you see us being gathered in the air or in the clouds before the tribulation.

There is no story in the Bible showing that Jesus will come before the great tribulation

“NOTHING” “ ZIP” DIDDLY-SQUAT. “0”.

Actually there is.

1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porteropeneth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he callethhis own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. - John 10:1-6 (King James Bible)

You see Peter, John 10:1-6 is a parable which Jesus spake unto the Jews but they understood it not. This parable is a picture of the Rapture. Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:51: 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. - 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (King James Bible)

Note that it is the Rapture that is a mystery. The Second Advent or Second Coming of Jesus Christ is not a mystery.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. - Matthew 24:29-31 (King James Bible)

So Peter, let me ask you. From reading that passage in Matthew 24, does that look like a mystery? The sun being darkened, the moon not giving its light, the stars falling from Heaven, and so forth.? The clear answer is no. That's because the Second Coming of Christ is not a mystery. The Rapture and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ are two different events.

Let me ask you another question though. Where does the Apostle Paul mention anything about the sun being darkened and the moon not giving its light in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 and also 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18? I mean if the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ are the same event, then why doesn't Paul list those same signs in 1 Cor. 15? Or 1 Thess. 14?

Well again, that's because the Rapture and the Second Coming are two completely different events. There is a reason why Paul described the catching away of the saints as a mystery.

But there is an event were Jesus comes, Immediately after the tribulation.

These so-called bible scholars have feigned the pre-tribulation coming/rapture from their own imagination.

No they have not Peter. The Bible Pastors and Preachers I know of who defend and preach the Pre-Tribulation Rapture have studied the Scriptures thoroughly and by rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15) have learned and have been assured of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Body of Christ.

Let me show you something here Peter that can help you out:

[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. - Matthew 25:31-46 (King James Bible)



[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. - Revelation 19:11-16 (King James Bible)




Now if you read both passages that I just gave you, and if you read them in context, you should be able to see that both passages are referring to the Second Coming Of Jesus Christ.


Now let me explain something to you Peter if you are not already aware of it. The armies in heaven which come back with Jesus, the armies which follow Him upon white horses are His saints. And we are His saints. When we die and go to heaven or when we get translated at the Rapture, we become as the angels are.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And last of all the woman died also.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
[SUP]32 [/SUP]I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine. - Matthew 22:23-33 (King James Bible)




And that is the Scripture to show you that we will indeed be as the angels of God in heaven.

So by you saying that there is no event where Jesus comes before the tribulation is not true.
You are wrong when you say that Peter. Because Jesus does come back, but He comes back for His church, which is His bride. You see Peter, at the Rapture of the Church Age Saints, Jesus Christ does not come physically to the earth. At the Rapture or Translation, Jesus Comes and lands in the clouds (1 Thess 4:17).

Now at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ physically returns to the Earth and His feet touch the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:1-4).

One event, Jesus only comes back for His church. And He meets them in the air, on the clouds ( 1 Thess. 4:15-18).

And the Second Advent is where Jesus Christ comes back to the Earth and sets up His throne and sits thereon, and gathers all the nations unto Himself and judges them. (Zech. 14:1-4, Matthew 24:29-39 and Matthew 25:31-46).

So Peter, there is a major event that is going to take place before the Time of Jacob's trouble (aka the Tribulation) and it is the Rapture of the Body of Christ. The Scriptures do teach of a pre-tribulation Rapture. And if you cannot see that it is either because you are not rightly dividing the word of truth, or it may have been because you just had been ignorant of what the Scriptures taught in regard to the imminent rapture.

When you study the Scriptures, you have to be dispensational. You have to rightly divide the word of truth.

A lot of these post-trib rapture teachers refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. They refuse to be dispensational. And because they are not dispensational, they end up making a mess of the Bible. These post-trib teachers get messed up doctrinally. They deny Eternal Security, then they deny the Pre-trib. Rapture. And because they do not rightly divide the word of truth, they have to spiritualize the Scriptures many times. And the Roman Catholic church is known for spiritualizing the Scriptures.

People like Steve Anderson who attack dispensational teaching and preaching. And it is no surprise that Steve Anderson is for the Post -Trib. Rapture theory. Steve Anderson refuses to rightly divide the word of truth, and because of that he is a novice and is messed up doctrinally.

So Peter I exhort you to start rightly diving the Scriptures. When you obey the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15, you will see that the King James Bible does indeed teach a pre-tribulation rapture.

Christians will not have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. We are not appointed to wrath ( See 1 Thess. 5:9)

In the time of Jacob's trouble, God's wrath will be poured out. I mean think about it Peter, and use some common sense. We as Christians are the Body of Christ (See 1 Cor. 12:12-14, 27). And if we Christians are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh ( See Ephesians 5:30). Then why wold the Body of Christ have to go through God's wrath on this earth for seven years?

I mean have you ever asked yourself that question Peter?

So again Peter, the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is not some theory that a few men came up with in 1830. The Pre-Tribualtion Rapture is a Bible Doctrine. It is a solid Truth in the Scriptures.

And I recommend you look up Some Teachings and sermons by Brother Bryan Denlinger on the Pre-Trib. Rapture. He is an excellent Bible teacher and preacher and he rightly divides the word of truth.

 

[peterT]

Well yes Peter, it is called the Second Coming of Jesus Christ. Also known as the Second Advent.





There is an event where Jesus comes before the time of Jacobs Trouble. It is called the catching away of the saints. Also referred to as the Imminent Rapture of the Body of Christ.



Yes there is. It is called the catching away of the saints, also known as the Rapture of the Body of Christ.




At the Rapture of the Body of Christ, the angels are not doing any reaping. Every Christian, whether dead or alive will be translated in the twinkling of an eye and they will instantly be changed. Every Christian will have their new glorified body and we will meet the Lord Jesus in the air.

15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18 (King James Bible)



Actually there is.

1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep. 3To him the porteropeneth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he callethhis own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers. 6This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them. - John 10:1-6 (King James Bible)

You see Peter, John 10:1-6 is a parable which Jesus spake unto the Jews but they understood it not. This parable is a picture of the Rapture. Paul said in 1 Cor. 15:51: 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. - 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 (King James Bible)

Note that it is the Rapture that is a mystery. The Second Advent or Second Coming of Jesus Christ is not a mystery.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. - Matthew 24:29-31 (King James Bible)

So Peter, let me ask you. From reading that passage in Matthew 24, does that look like a mystery? The sun being darkened, the moon not giving its light, the stars falling from Heaven, and so forth.? The clear answer is no. That's because the Second Coming of Christ is not a mystery. The Rapture and the Second Coming of Jesus Christ are two different events.

Let me ask you another question though. Where does the Apostle Paul mention anything about the sun being darkened and the moon not giving its light in 1 Corinthians 15:51-55 and also 1 Thessalonians 4:15-18? I mean if the Rapture and the Second Coming of Christ are the same event, then why doesn't Paul list those same signs in 1 Cor. 15? Or 1 Thess. 14?

Well again, that's because the Rapture and the Second Coming are two completely different events. There is a reason why Paul described the catching away of the saints as a mystery.



No they have not Peter. The Bible Pastors and Preachers I know of who defend and preach the Pre-Tribulation Rapture have studied the Scriptures thoroughly and by rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15) have learned and have been assured of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Body of Christ.

Let me show you something here Peter that can help you out:

[SUP]31 [/SUP]When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
[SUP]35 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
[SUP]39 [/SUP]Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[SUP]42 [/SUP]For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[SUP]43 [/SUP]I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. - Matthew 25:31-46 (King James Bible)



[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. - Revelation 19:11-16 (King James Bible)




Now if you read both passages that I just gave you, and if you read them in context, you should be able to see that both passages are referring to the Second Coming Of Jesus Christ.


Now let me explain something to you Peter if you are not already aware of it. The armies in heaven which come back with Jesus, the armies which follow Him upon white horses are His saints. And we are His saints. When we die and go to heaven or when we get translated at the Rapture, we become as the angels are.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]The same day came to him the Sadducees, which say that there is no resurrection, and asked him,
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother:
[SUP]26 [/SUP]Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And last of all the woman died also.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
[SUP]32 [/SUP]I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine. - Matthew 22:23-33 (King James Bible)




And that is the Scripture to show you that we will indeed be as the angels of God in heaven.

So by you saying that there is no event where Jesus comes before the tribulation is not true.
You are wrong when you say that Peter. Because Jesus does come back, but He comes back for His church, which is His bride. You see Peter, at the Rapture of the Church Age Saints, Jesus Christ does not come physically to the earth. At the Rapture or Translation, Jesus Comes and lands in the clouds (1 Thess 4:17).

Now at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ physically returns to the Earth and His feet touch the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:1-4).

One event, Jesus only comes back for His church. And He meets them in the air, on the clouds ( 1 Thess. 4:15-18).

And the Second Advent is where Jesus Christ comes back to the Earth and sets up His throne and sits thereon, and gathers all the nations unto Himself and judges them. (Zech. 14:1-4, Matthew 24:29-39 and Matthew 25:31-46).

So Peter, there is a major event that is going to take place before the Time of Jacob's trouble (aka the Tribulation) and it is the Rapture of the Body of Christ. The Scriptures do teach of a pre-tribulation Rapture. And if you cannot see that it is either because you are not rightly dividing the word of truth, or it may have been because you just had been ignorant of what the Scriptures taught in regard to the imminent rapture.

When you study the Scriptures, you have to be dispensational. You have to rightly divide the word of truth.

A lot of these post-trib rapture teachers refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. They refuse to be dispensational. And because they are not dispensational, they end up making a mess of the Bible. These post-trib teachers get messed up doctrinally. They deny Eternal Security, then they deny the Pre-trib. Rapture. And because they do not rightly divide the word of truth, they have to spiritualize the Scriptures many times. And the Roman Catholic church is known for spiritualizing the Scriptures.

People like Steve Anderson who attack dispensational teaching and preaching. And it is no surprise that Steve Anderson is for the Post -Trib. Rapture theory. Steve Anderson refuses to rightly divide the word of truth, and because of that he is a novice and is messed up doctrinally.

So Peter I exhort you to start rightly diving the Scriptures. When you obey the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15, you will see that the King James Bible does indeed teach a pre-tribulation rapture.

Christians will not have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. We are not appointed to wrath ( See 1 Thess. 5:9)

In the time of Jacob's trouble, God's wrath will be poured out. I mean think about it Peter, and use some common sense. We as Christians are the Body of Christ (See 1 Cor. 12:12-14, 27). And if we Christians are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh ( See Ephesians 5:30). Then why wold the Body of Christ have to go through God's wrath on this earth for seven years?

I mean have you ever asked yourself that question Peter?

So again Peter, the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is not some theory that a few men came up with in 1830. The Pre-Tribualtion Rapture is a Bible Doctrine. It is a solid Truth in the Scriptures.

And I recommend you look up Some Teachings and sermons by Brother Bryan Denlinger on the Pre-Trib. Rapture. He is an excellent Bible teacher and preacher and he rightly divides the word of truth.

Did I miss something ?

You know the verses that show the event were Jesus comes before the tribulation?.

Did you forget to copy and then paste them into this thread /post?

Because none of the verses you just quoted say anything about Jesus coming before the tribulation

Yes it’s easy to say

“There is an event where Jesus comes before the time of Jacobs Trouble. It is called the catching away of the saints. Also referred to as the Imminent Rapture of the Body of Christ.”

Saying it doesn’t make it so.

But you have to show it from the Bible which you haven’t done.

Not one verse you quoted says anything about before the tribulation or Jesus coming before the tribulation.

You quoted verses about Jesus’s coming and there all good scriptures and I understand what you are saying there, but none of them talk about Jesus coming before the tribulation.


So where in the BIBLE is the EVENT? Just quote scripture. Show the EVENT where Jesus comes to get us before the tribulation.


You said “There is an event” show me the event

 

[didymos]

Apparently there are TWO anti-christs now.

 

[zone]

There is an event where Jesus comes before the time of Jacobs Trouble.

It is called the catching away of the saints. Also referred to as the Imminent Rapture of the Body of Christ.

Well again, that's because the Rapture and the Second Coming are two completely different events.

The Bible Pastors and Preachers I know of who defend and preach the Pre-Tribulation Rapture have studied the Scriptures thoroughly and by rightly dividing the word of truth (2 Tim. 2:15) have learned and have been assured of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture of the Body of Christ.

Jesus does come back, but He comes back for His church, which is His bride. You see Peter, at the Rapture of the Church Age Saints, Jesus Christ does not come physically to the earth. At the Rapture or Translation, Jesus Comes and lands in the clouds (1 Thess 4:17).

Now at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, Jesus Christ physically returns to the Earth and His feet touch the Mount of Olives (Zech. 14:1-4).

One event, Jesus only comes back for His church. And He meets them in the air, on the clouds ( 1 Thess. 4:15-18).

And the Second Advent is where Jesus Christ comes back to the Earth and sets up His throne and sits thereon, and gathers all the nations unto Himself and judges them. (Zech. 14:1-4, Matthew 24:29-39 and Matthew 25:31-46).

So Peter, there is a major event that is going to take place before the Time of Jacob's trouble (aka the Tribulation) and it is the Rapture of the Body of Christ.

The Scriptures do teach of a pre-tribulation Rapture. And if you cannot see that it is either because you are not rightly dividing the word of truth, or it may have been because you just had been ignorant of what the Scriptures taught in regard to the imminent rapture.

When you study the Scriptures, you have to be dispensational. You have to rightly divide the word of truth.

A lot of these post-trib rapture teachers refuse to rightly divide the word of truth. They refuse to be dispensational.

And because they are not dispensational, they end up making a mess of the Bible. These post-trib teachers get messed up doctrinally. They deny Eternal Security, then they deny the Pre-trib. Rapture. And because they do not rightly divide the word of truth, they have to spiritualize the Scriptures many times. And the Roman Catholic church is known for spiritualizing the Scriptures.

People like Steve Anderson who attack dispensational teaching and preaching. And it is no surprise that Steve Anderson is for the Post -Trib. Rapture theory. Steve Anderson refuses to rightly divide the word of truth, and because of that he is a novice and is messed up doctrinally.

So Peter I exhort you to start rightly diving the Scriptures. When you obey the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15, you will see that the King James Bible does indeed teach a pre-tribulation rapture.

Christians will not have to go through the time of Jacob's trouble. We are not appointed to wrath ( See 1 Thess. 5:9)

In the time of Jacob's trouble, God's wrath will be poured out. I mean think about it Peter, and use some common sense. We as Christians are the Body of Christ (See 1 Cor. 12:12-14, 27). And if we Christians are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh ( See Ephesians 5:30). Then why wold the Body of Christ have to go through God's wrath on this earth for seven years?

I mean have you ever asked yourself that question Peter?

So again Peter, the Pre-Tribulation Rapture is not some theory that a few men came up with in 1830. The Pre-Tribualtion Rapture is a Bible Doctrine. It is a solid Truth in the Scriptures.

ChosenbyHim, i narrowed down a few points in your post to Peter.
hope this is okay.

can we look at what the term RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH is, and is not?




what RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH is NOT:


you are holding to extreme Dispensationalism, brought in most completely by Cyrus Scofield.

Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth

Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth by C.I. Scofield < click


Scofield divided up periods of time...and called that rightly dividing the word.

he used ONE word - dispensation, to build the whole system on:

"The Scriptures divide time (by which is meant the entire period from the creation of Adam to the "new heaven and a new earth" of Rev. 21: 1) into seven unequal periods, usually called dispensations (Eph. 3:2), although these periods are also called ages (Eph. 2:7) and days, as in "day of the Lord.""

Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth - Chapter 2 < click

he divided up periods of time in Scripture (the Word of Truth), and called them dispensations of time.

so, we have the term: "RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH", and according to it signifies Dispensations (or Dispensationalism).

God has different ideas toward man; different plans; what matters to us here is the idea (which is false) that God has TWO PLANS in the last days.

simplified, it looks like this:

One Plan, Plan A is the nation of Israel, or the jewish nation. this was the original plan.
that the entire jewish nation (Israel) would accept the messiah when He came.

Scofieldism actually says that IF THEY HAD ALL ACCEPTED MESSIAH, Jesus would NOT have had to go to the Cross!
that the Kingdom would have been ushered in then.

since they did not all accept Him then, God had to devise Plan B.

Plan B involved:

- blinding the jews to what they had done (for their own salvation)

- having Jesus crucified, and turning that for good - for Gentiles

- this ushered in a secret Gentile Church Age (another "dispensation" of time and purpose)

- the people in this "dispensation" were saved a different way - by 100% GRACE due to Jesus on the Cross FOR THEM.

- the Law has nothing to do with them, and never did.

- the jews are still under Law, on hold until their last 7 years (the final "dispensation" of this Age, before the last "dispensation", the 1,000 year earth kingdom where the jews are restored to the position they should have had with Christ as King in a physical kingdom on earth)

- however, since they altered the Plan, His work does not apply to jews yet, since the prophetic clock stopped for them when they MADE THE MISTAKE AND TOOK GOD BY SURPRISE by rejecting their King.

- so God the Father set aside Israel (jewish nation) His estranged wife for now...and made a mystery Gentile Church for His Son who would be His Bride.

- the wife is Israel and the bride is the Church Age church.

- in order for God to turn His attention back to His wife Israel, He has to remove Christ's Bride from earth for a wedding, and subject Israel (Jacob) to a terrible tribulation...for various reasons.

- this tribulation is 7 years long, and it is the 70th week of Daniel, which had to be severed from Redemptive History for Israel and placed at the end of time, so that Plan A could restart....the kingdom to Israel

these are all little DISPENSATIONS, according to this theory.
time was DIVIDED up into dispensations.
hence "rightly DIVIDING"

(which is drastically wrongly dividing - it's extreme heresy)
this theory was first introduced by the most antisemitic idea that ever was postulated - Darby and his friends said:

THE JEW SHALL NEVER ENTER THE "CHRISTIAN" CHURCH.

they had, and this has been given several coats of paint to look different, initially devised a belief where there was ETERNALLY two separate people - in heaven would be the Church, and on earth the jews - FOR ETERNITY.

they got the idea ironically from unbelieving jews (The Pharisees) who had not understood, or had rejected deliberately the Two Ages (This World, and the World to Come) any better than they did!

they're actually the same group.

does this make sense to you?

...............


WHAT DOES EPHESIANS 3:2 really say about a/the DISPENSATION of Grace Paul was given to provide to the Church (Church Age/Gentile Age/Grace Age)

is it a divided up period of time with a distinct purpose?

or is it something else?


this whole system is disguised by the wrong interpretation of Paul's dispensation of grace:


EPHESIANS 3:2


New International Version (©2011)
Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,




New Living Translation (©2007)
assuming, by the way, that you know God gave me the special responsibility of extending his grace to you Gentiles.




English Standard Version (©2001)
assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you,




New American Standard Bible (©1995)
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;




King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:




Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
you have heard, haven't you, about the administration of God's grace that He gave to me for you?




International Standard Version (©2012)
Surely you have heard about the responsibility of administering God's grace that was given to me on your behalf,




NET Bible (©2006)
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,




Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
If you have heard of the administration of the grace of God, which is given to me among you.




GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Certainly, you have heard how God gave me the responsibility of bringing his kindness to you.




King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you:




American King James Version
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:




American Standard Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;




Douay-Rheims Bible
If yet you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me towards you:




Darby Bible Translation
(if indeed ye have heard of the administration of the grace of God which has been given to me towards you,




English Revised Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;




Webster's Bible Translation
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me on your account.




Weymouth New Testament
if, that is, you have heard of the work which God has graciously entrusted to me for your benefit,




World English Bible
if it is so that you have heard of the administration of that grace of God which was given me toward you;




Young's Literal Translation
if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you,



cont......

 

[zone]

ChosenbyHim, i narrowed down a few points in your post to Peter.
hope this is okay.

can we look at what the term RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH is, and is not?


.....


WHAT DOES EPHESIANS 3:2 really say about a/the DISPENSATION of Grace Paul was given to provide to the Church (Church Age/Gentile Age/Grace Age)

is it a divided up period of time with a distinct purpose?

or is it something else?


this whole system is disguised by the wrong interpretation of Paul's dispensation of grace:


EPHESIANS 3:2

New International Version (©2011)
Surely you have heard about the administration of God's grace that was given to me for you,

New Living Translation (©2007)
assuming, by the way, that you know God gave me the special responsibility of extending his grace to you Gentiles.

English Standard Version (©2001)
assuming that you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace which was given to me for you;

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
you have heard, haven't you, about the administration of God's grace that He gave to me for you?

International Standard Version (©2012)
Surely you have heard about the responsibility of administering God's grace that was given to me on your behalf,

NET Bible (©2006)
if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God's grace that was given to me for you,

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
If you have heard of the administration of the grace of God, which is given to me among you.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Certainly, you have heard how God gave me the responsibility of bringing his kindness to you.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me toward you:

American King James Version
If you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:

American Standard Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Douay-Rheims Bible
If yet you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me towards you:

Darby Bible Translation
(if indeed ye have heard of the administration of the grace of God which has been given to me towards you,

English Revised Version
if so be that ye have heard of the dispensation of that grace of God which was given me to you-ward;

Webster's Bible Translation
If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me on your account.

Weymouth New Testament
if, that is, you have heard of the work which God has graciously entrusted to me for your benefit,

World English Bible
if it is so that you have heard of the administration of that grace of God which was given me toward you;

Young's Literal Translation
if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you,

cont......

International Standard Version (©2012)
Surely you have heard about the responsibility of administering God's grace that was given to me on your behalf,

Weymouth New Testament
if, that is, you have heard of the work which God has graciously entrusted to me for your benefit,

the DISPENSING, or DISPENSATION of Grace only means exactly what it says:

a dispensing, or administering as you would a life-saving medicine or remedy for a fatal disease!

to jews and gentiles!

all Plan A.

there is no other Plan.

the people in Jerusalem who did not recognize the time of their visitation were cut off.
the elect remnant were saved.
gentiles were grafted in.

that's exactly how it works today.
ONE TREE.
believers in the Tree, unbelievers not in the tree.
no difference inside or outside the Church except by Grace through faith Christ.
lost or saved.

ONE PLAN.

this is the only Plan there is until The World to Come (eternity) - and it's for jews and gentiles - this message went to the Jews FIRST!

they gave us the New Testament.

Ephesians 4
Unity in the Body of Christ
1I therefore, a prisoner for the Lord, urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling to which you have been called, 2with all humility and gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love, 3eager to maintain the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. 4There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 7But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ’s gift. 8Therefore it says,

“When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

9(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth?a 10He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherdsb and teachers,c 12to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 13until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood,d to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 14so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 15Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ, 16from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.

 

[psychomom]

WHAT DOES EPHESIANS 3:2 really say about a/the DISPENSATION of Grace Paul was given to provide to the Church (Church Age/Gentile Age/Grace Age)

dispensation, in Eph. 3:2, from Strongs:

oikonomia: stewardship, administration​

Original Word: οἰκονομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikonomia
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kon-om-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: stewardship
Definition: management of household affairs, stewardship, administration.

from HELPS Word-Studies:

3622 oikonomía (from 3621 /oikonoméō, "a steward, managing a household") – properly, a stewardship, management (administration), i.e. where a person looks after another's affairs (resources).

other verses using the same Greek word:

Luke 16:2,3,4
2“And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward.’ 3“And the steward said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the stewardship away from me? I am not strong enough to dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4‘I know what I shall do, so that when I am removed from the stewardship, they will receive me into their homes.’

1 Cor. 9:17
For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

Eph. 1:10
with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth.

Eph. 3:9
and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things;

Col. 1:25
Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

1 Tim. 1:4
nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

I don't see any of those referring to periods of time, does anyone else?

 

[zone]

dispensation, in Eph. 3:2, from Strongs:

oikonomia: stewardship, administration​

Original Word: οἰκονομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: oikonomia
Phonetic Spelling: (oy-kon-om-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: stewardship
Definition: management of household affairs, stewardship, administration.

from HELPS Word-Studies:

3622 oikonomía (from 3621 /oikonoméō, "a steward, managing a household") – properly, a stewardship, management (administration), i.e. where a person looks after another's affairs (resources).

other verses using the same Greek word:

Luke 16:2,3,4
2“And he called him and said to him, ‘What is this I hear about you? Give an account of your stewardship, for you can no longer be steward.’ 3“And the steward said to himself, ‘What shall I do, since my master is taking the stewardship away from me? I am not strong enough to dig; I am ashamed to beg. 4‘I know what I shall do, so that when I am removed from the stewardship, they will receive me into their homes.’

1 Cor. 9:17
For if I do this voluntarily, I have a reward; but if against my will, I have a stewardship entrusted to me.

Eph. 1:10
with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth.

Eph. 3:9
and to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things;

Col. 1:25
Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

1 Tim. 1:4
nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

I don't see any of those referring to periods of time, does anyone else?

true el.

i mean, where do we get the word minister?

what does a minister of the gospel do?

administers the gospel.

to whom?

Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

how many gospels are there?

....

folks, you really want to think about putting aside that Scofield Bible.

In this devastating critique of dispensationalism, noted historian and biblical scholar John H. Gerstner, Ph.D. (Harvard), focuses on several of dispensationalism's leading errors. He demonstrates that dispensationalism not only provides a prophetic scheme for interpreting history, but a whole new theology that makes serious alterations to evangelical doctrine. Gerstner, a former dispensationalist himself, carefully demonstrates through abundant citation of original sources that dispensationalism promotes dubious evangelicalism, spurious Calvinism, and overt antinomianism. In this edition he also replies at length his dispensational critics.

....

Dispensationalism

A Return to Biblical Theology

or

Pseudo Christian Cult

"What is indisputably, absolutely, and uncompromisingly essential to the Christian religion is its doctrine of salvation... If Dispensationalism has actually departed from the only way of salvation which the Christian religion teaches, then we must say it has departed from Christianity. No matter how many other important truths it proclaims, it cannot be called Christian if it empties Christianity of its essential message. We define a cult as a religion which claims to be Christian while emptying Christianity of that which is essential to it. If Dispensationalism does this, then Dispensationalism is a cult and not a branch of the Christian church. It is as serious as that. It is impossible to exaggerate the gravity of the situation."

By John H. Gerstner Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth: A Critique of Dispensationalism