The Problem with " saved by grace..."

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oOfallen_angelOo

Guest
#1
One of the major ideals I've noticed taken on by Christians lately, is this idea of " saved by grace." It isn't so much that this is a false statement, because it's not, we are indeed saved by God's grace, however, a lot of people have totally misinterpreted what this really means, and it has become a justification for Christians leading non - Christian lives, as well as excusing themselves from following any of God's commandments regulated by the New Covenant, because they wholesomely believe there are no commandments to follow, because they are automatically guaranteed salvation by God's grace.

Do you even know what God's grace was?

~

Romans 6: 23

" For the wages of sin is death..."


Everyone on earth, has been placed here due to grievous sins / original sins as it is known. The wages of these original sins is death; thus those who do not come to be forgiven of these sins, face the wages which is the destruction of their souls - the 2nd death as the bible calls it.

According to this regulation God has in place, all men on the earth were to have died for the original sins committed. God cannot lie, nor can he betray his own commandment. This means that God cannot simply have just forgiven sins and brought the children back to heaven, or else it would have violated his own regulations about sin and death, which were established from the very beginning in the Garden of Eden when Adam and Eve sinned and God told them they would die for it.

Having chosen sin, the rule is death.

Earth is a death sentence.

This is why the bible says that if one does not repent for sins and gain forgiveness, they die.

~

It was not until Jesus Christ came, that the forgiveness of sins could be had through his body and blood -

Ephesians 1:7

" In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins..."


This was the regulation of the New Covenant, and the only way those born under it ( our modern generation,) could receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life:

John 6:53

" Jesus said to them, " I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life..."


Pretty straight forward yes?

Ephesians 1: 7

"...in accordance with the riches of God's grace."


God's grace was the gift of the reality of gaining the forgiveness of sins; as in making that even a choice for us to choose.

It in turn, was not that Jesus died on the cross and suddenly all sins of everyone who says they believe were wiped clean, and it is a " get in free pass," to heaven. There is work to be done to even have this gift of grace bestowed on one.

Just looking at what " grace " is - it's a free gift someone gave out of the kindness of their heart;

God did not have to do this. Think about it;

God stepped off his glorious heavenly throne, made himself lower than the angels, was beaten, bloodied, spat on, mocked - by the very people he came down to save, and then was nailed to a cross.

Who in the heck would go through all that? Especially the King of the universe? What are we to him but disobedient sinners deserving of death?

This was God's grace. His free gift was conquering death so that we may have life, which he 100% didn't have to do.

~

As far as grace being bestowed on one - Jesus Christ left a Covenant - the New Covenant.

A covenant is a sacred promise between God and his people; a promise however, is not a one way deal. When you promise someone, its on terms. Whether it's, " I promise to pay you back IF you loan me this money." or " I promise to love and cherish you forever IF we are to be married."

There are terms.

The New Covenant has a law; except this law will be written on the hearts of God's people. Any Christian whom says there is no law under the new covenant, that it was abolished, or there are no regulations to follow - clearly does not have the law written in their hearts.


For the New Covenant to not have any law, is to violate the workings of faith and order God established from the very beginning for his people.

Recognizing this law is also what ultimately separates God's people from everyone else; because only they will come to harbor it in their hearts.

~

Lets look at the world around us; no one even really knows what the commandments of the New Covenant is - even blowing off the biggest commandment that grants eternal life - the breaking of bread and sharing of wine - the Passover.

As God gave the commandments to Moses in the OT, God also gave the commandments as Jesus in the NT.​

Jesus's own words:

John 14:15

" If you love me, you will obey what I command."

John 14: 21

" Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me."

The New Covenant was a regulation to God's people; if you believe in the New Covenant promise, then you must also believe in Jesus Christ; and if Jesus Christ says that one who loves God truly is to follow his commands...then why do some believe there are not commands to be followed?

I've seen people on here ridiculed for expressing that there are indeed commands to be followed, by people responding with a " so long as you believe Jesus Christ is you savior..."

If you believe Jesus Christ is your savior, you'll do what your savior told you to do.

Keep his commands and honor his covenant.

~

Father is a very loving spirit, but Father is also just and almighty. If his word is law, and you ignore aspects such as these of his word, then you will receive according to Father's justice. This is why the bible talks about the Christians who honor God with their lips but not with their hearts; because they fail to keep God's commandments which lead to idolatry, sin, and following the traditions of man, and not those of God.

You can see this quite obviously in the world these days - for a lot of " Christian" traditions, are not Christian at all, and were in fact, put in place by Popes and church authorities. Mere men.

Some Christians for some reason believe they are just guranteed heaven, yet when put on the spot, they can't give you a straight answer about God's commands; how can one know they are justified before God, if they don't even know where they really stand with God?

Cherry picking their bible verses to suit their daily lives, yet ignoring anything and everything in the bible that will hold them accountable.

I guess. But God's word is law, and if you're breaking it, by his law you will be punished.

This is why I stress about what is truly God's law for us, and what is but the laws given by false prophets?

Because those who follow that of false prophets, will be condemned along with the false prophets.

(There is a passage in the bible in which men are instructed to kill all those who didn't have a mark placed on them; this was in reference to those who fail to receive the mark of God which is given by honoring the New Covenant; even the men who believed in God were killed because they did not keep his regulations.)

If you truly don't know the answer of your faith, the truth to your grace - I would start praying because our very souls are at stake.

The devil is quite the deceptive spirit, and this is why the bible constantly tells believers to push for understanding of God, for this is what will reveal falsehood...
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#2
Some very good words there.

I'd like to just add a few scriptures which speak for themselves...

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


Hence...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#4
So what is grace?
Grace is God's power and provision for men (and women). It encompasses the death of Christ on the cross, God's influence on our hearts and God's profound mercy.


Grace - charis
From G5463; graciousness (as gratifying), of manner or act (abstract or concrete; literal, figurative or spiritual; especially the divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life; including gratitude): - acceptable, benefit, favour, gift, grace (-ious), joy liberality, pleasure, thank (-s, -worthy).


Now one is saved apart from the grace of God because it is life that proceeds from God, therefore we cannot do anything apart from the grace of God which would bring us to salvation. We have to throw ourselves completely on God and yield to His lead. God then works salvation through us resulting in the purity of heart of the believer.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#5
Gods divine enablement to both obey Him, Love Him and others.

When Paul was told "my grace is sufficient" Paul responded that
he would therefore glory in his infirmities and others issues.
Because when he was weak(the flesh) then is he strong(grace) charis=divine enablement
 
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oOfallen_angelOo

Guest
#6
Some very good words there.

I'd like to just add a few scriptures which speak for themselves...

Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

1Th 1:3 Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father;

Gal 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Gal 5:5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.


Hence...

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
You do realize that faith is only gained by following God's commandments right? Because if you truly have faith in God, you will follow his commandments without warrant.

So.

yes you do get grace through faith, but you get faith through following God's commandments because you faithfully believe that doing so will get you salvation.

And just to clarify, Just following the law doesn't get one salvation either; we cannot be saved by deeds of the law alone.

However, even the apostles were under Christ's commands and they did so out of faith, and therefore were granted the grace of God.

All these go hand and hand; you need to have them all or else you end up forsaking God's commandments or losing faith, which ultimately causes you to lose the grace of God, which is what allowed us eternal life.
 
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oOfallen_angelOo

Guest
#7
So what is grace?
Grace was God's free gift to mankind of eternal life ( which is through forgiveness of sins,), which was established through Jesus Christ conquering death on the cross, which is accepted through the consuming of his flesh and blood - the Passover.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#8
Just to clarify a typo in my last response.

Now one is saved apart from the grace of God because it is life that proceeds from God, therefore we cannot do anything apart from the grace of God which would bring us to salvation. We have to throw ourselves completely on God and yield to His lead. God then works salvation through us resulting in the purity of heart of the believer.
Should read....

No one is saved apart from the grace of God because it is life that proceeds from God, therefore we cannot do anything apart from the grace of God which would bring us to salvation. We have to throw ourselves completely on God and yield to His lead. God then works salvation through us resulting in the purity of heart of the believer.
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#9
Fallen Angel in Black
Skinski in Red

You do realize that faith is only gained by following God's commandments right? Because if you truly have faith in God, you will follow his commandments without warrant. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God (Rom 10:17). In the faith chapter of Hebrews it says this...

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

So faith is the result of diligently seeking God and listening to His word.

I absolutely agree with you when you say that those with true faith follow His commandments without warrant. Faith and obedience are the same thing. Noah had faith in God and built the ark (Heb 11:7), his deeds thus testified to his faith (Jas 2:18).

So.

yes you do get grace through faith, but you get faith through following God's commandments because you faithfully believe that doing so will get you salvation. We gain "access" to grace via faith (Rom 5:2). The grace of God has appeared to all men teaching them the right way to go (Tit 2:11-12). Grace is freely given apart from anything we do, the question is what we do with it. It is by faith that grace is appropriated or made effectual unto salvation (Eph 2:8), hence we work together with God (2Cor 6:1).

And just to clarify, Just following the law doesn't get one salvation either; we cannot be saved by deeds of the law alone. The law can save no-one because it can only ever be an adornment for the outside of the cup, Jesus taught we must cleanse that which is within that the outside be made clean also (Mat 23:26) and this is fulfilled when we obey from the heart (Rom 6:17) the doctrine of Christ which is according to godliness (1Tim 6:3).

However, even the apostles were under Christ's commands and they did so out of faith, and therefore were granted the grace of God.

All these go hand and hand; you need to have them all or else you end up forsaking God's commandments or losing faith, which ultimately causes you to lose the grace of God, which is what allowed us eternal life. I wouldn't really say that one "loses" the grace of God. The Bible says that we can "receive grace in vain" which simply means "to no effect" (2Cor 6:1). One can believe in vain (1Cor 15:2). In other words heart purity (1Pet 1:21) will not be wrought if one rejects the leading of grace, which is why we must RECEIVE THE IMPLANTED WORD which saves the soul (Jam 1:21) by YIELDING TO ITS INSTRUCTION (Jam 1:22).


God bless.

 

iog

Banned
Jan 4, 2013
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#10
Grace was God's free gift to mankind of eternal life ( which is through forgiveness of sins,), which was established through Jesus Christ conquering death on the cross, which is accepted through the consuming of his flesh and blood - the Passover.
Where is this written?

This is a lot for one word?

I thought grace is the blood of Jesus
 
F

Fat

Guest
#11
I don't see that the problem here is people believing they are saved by grace, but people that are unsaved believing they are saved. To be a Christian you have to love the Lord.

John 14:15 CSB
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

I don't believe you can be a Christian without loving Christ, and as Christ says if you love Him you will keep His commandments.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#12
Lets look at the world around us; no one even really knows what the commandments of the New Covenant is - even blowing off the biggest commandment that grants eternal life - the breaking of bread and sharing of wine - the Passover
would you be kind enough to be more detailed on this point alone?
Passover is the bread and wine?
Passover grants eternal life?

please explain.

also: could i have your documentation on this please, and are you ready to make a correction if needed?

"no one even really knows what the commandments of the New Covenant is"

zone
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
I don't see that the problem here is people believing they are saved by grace, but people that are unsaved believing they are saved. To be a Christian you have to love the Lord.

John 14:15 CSB
"If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.

I don't believe you can be a Christian without loving Christ, and as Christ says if you love Him you will keep His commandments.
I agree with the part I bolded 100 %

I also think there are some legalists who try to use against the law against others who still struggle in some areas of their lives and say they can;t be saved. We do not become super mater christains the moment we have faith. Some take longer to grow than others. Like the corinthian church is a great example.

so we must ask ourselves. Even if we love the Lord. And we should keep his commands. Are any of us perfect in this? if not. then what makes us more worthy of eternal life than the next person?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#14
would you be kind enough to be more detailed on this point alone?
Passover is the bread and wine?
Passover grants eternal life?

please explain.

also: could i have your documentation on this please, and are you ready to make a correction if needed?

"no one even really knows what the commandments of the New Covenant is"

zone

I would take it even further and ask How timothy could know scripture enough as a child to be saved, when the new covenant had not even been established yet. And if all the people of the OT are doomed because they did not have access to the new covenant.
 
Jan 17, 2013
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#15
edit.........
 
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Jan 17, 2013
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#16
This was the regulation of the New Covenant, and the only way those born under it ( our modern generation,) could receive forgiveness of sins and eternal life:

John 6:53..

" Jesus said to them, " I tell you the truth, UNLESS you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life..."


Pretty straight forward yes?
Indeed it is straight forward. And quite literal too, obviously, since when those who heard him say it are utterly shocked and question him about it then our Lord only reinforces what he said...

Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?”
Jesus said to them, “Very truly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them."


He repeats it again and again.

Yes, his many disciples were shocked when he said this - they just wanted more miracles and their salvation, and until Jesus said this it was so easy (remember that this is quite late in his ministry, he had many many followers, and at this point Jesus is preparing to go to the cross). And also consider that Jewish law prohibits consuming blood (hence kosher meat). And now here is this man telling them to eat his flesh and drink his blood. The many disciples found this very offensive and they turned away from Jesus because of this teaching and no longer followed him.

On hearing it, many of his disciples said, “This is a hard teaching. Who can accept it?”
Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “Does this offend you?
From this time many of his disciples turned back and no longer followed him.


Notice that our Lord does not stop them, but rather only reinforces what he said. He does not say "Hey, it was only a parable! I didn't really mean it!" NO, he meant what he said, and followed up this teaching at the Last Supper. And Paul also teaches us about doing this in Corinthians, as our Lord instructs us to do.

Reminds me of today when I hear Christians saying that this is cannibalism and offensive and that it is only symbolic and that Jesus was only speaking in parable (which he obviously is NOT, but rather very literally).

Still, so many Christians neglect this essential teaching of our Lord to eat His flesh and drink His blood.

And look at the Last Supper in the Gospels, where Christ continues his instruction on this matter. Paul also instructs us when he see's that there are abuses concerning the Lord's Supper.

"For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and said, “This IS my body which is for you. DO THIS in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup IS the new covenant in my blood. DO THIS, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."


And then Paul speaks about the abuse of consuming the body and blood of Christ while in a state of mortal sin (thereby profaning the body and blood of the Lord)...

Abuses at the Lord's Supper-
"Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord.
For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ (i.e. understanding that it is truly the body and blood of Christ) eat and drink judgment on themselves."
1 Cor 11:23-29



It in turn, was not that Jesus died on the cross and suddenly all sins of everyone who says they believe were wiped clean, and it is a " get in free pass," to heaven. There is work to be done to even have this gift of grace bestowed on one.
Agreed. A great many Christians however mistakenly believe that all that is required of them is saying a little 15 second prayer of salvation that they accept Jesus as their Lord and that then they'll be saved. Looking at the entirety of Christ's teaching however then it is obvious that much more is required of us.

We cannot disregard this essential instruction from our Lord about consuming his flesh and blood, which he instructed his Apostles at the Last Supper to perform for all of Christ's true disciples. He has given us this awesome gift. We must do as he instructed us to do. The body and blood of Christ = the source and summit of our Christian faith. Christ truly present in the bread and wine and sharing Himself with us. It is awesome.
Praise and glory to you Lord Jesus Christ.
 
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Jan 4, 2013
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#17
There is so much fear put into listening to a false prophet today that if a real on were to show up that prophet would be ridiculed just as much as Jesus was and has been. I myself have not conquered every sin, but my job every morning that I wake up is to do so. It is more so my job to learn how to identify sins that I was raised to believe are "normal" or "allowed." If any one were to study my day to day life of the past two months, they would see a very unexplainable drop in sin activity. The only reason I do not claim to be sin free is because I have a lot left to learn, and I would never assume to claim perfection. Currently the hardest sin for me is "wrath." I do not feel angry, but I sometimes catch myself using "angry" expressions or tones of voice (a sinful habit, but still a sin) that negatively changes the situation. It usually comes from a failed attempt to explain myself in a understandable way, or another persons "nature" to make negative assumptions. (Which I have done plenty of.) I do believe that Gods commandments are law, and I work and listen and learn everyday to apply them to my life and live by them. But I also BELIEVE that some people may refuse Gods grace by holding Him accountable to His own law. I'm not saying shout it from the rooftops if God breaks one of His own laws to help you. But it is not helpful to put fear into anyone who may be brought to God in ways that are not of Gods law. Sometimes Gos shows us scary things to get us to look to Him. Any who choose to follow Gods law once they know it, are the ones that face eternal judgements. It is not unfaithful to trust in Gods power over Godless men. With these Godless men, God may break His own law through them. Often times these Godless men become His most faithful servants in life. Because these Godless men have both seen and been a part of the horrors that we all warn each other of. How quick even I am at times to put fear into those who do not know these horrors in attempts to save them from it. But fear of damnation to a life long follower of God is like the fear a professional basketball player feels about missing a practice foul shot. He/she wants to make it because it will show improvement and boost confidence. But if they miss they get another shot right? God gives us all different levels of seriousness with which we live our lives. Sometimes the pressure makes us work harder. Sometimes the comfort and encouragement allows us to relax and focus on whats important. But immobilizing fear from both sides will never allow for change. The closer you get to God the more responsible you must be. And if you have a close relationship with God through your life, it is important that you do not make others fear God using His very own law. Hear them, see them, understand them, live by them. Living by them does not mean you won't die by them. But fear of breaking them will give cause to doubt and lose faith in God and His grace. That is why I like to learn and talk here on CC. It takes a lot of the unnecessary emotions out, and allows for loving discipline. Some times it kind of feels like talking to God Himself, like, "Is this the line? :)" His true grace and followers seem to peek their heads around the corner and smile, as if to say, "Ah ah :) Careful now." It's both heart warming and enlightening. It is the best form of encouragement to become the best that you can be, in the eyes of God and all of our brothers and sisters.
 
R

rauleetoe

Guest
#18
You do realize that faith is only gained by following God's commandments right? Because if you truly have faith in God, you will follow his commandments without warrant.

So.

yes you do get grace through faith, but you get faith through following God's commandments because you faithfully believe that doing so will get you salvation.

And just to clarify, Just following the law doesn't get one salvation either; we cannot be saved by deeds of the law alone.

However, even the apostles were under Christ's commands and they did so out of faith, and therefore were granted the grace of God.

All these go hand and hand; you need to have them all or else you end up forsaking God's commandments or losing faith, which ultimately causes you to lose the grace of God, which is what allowed us eternal life.
Responding sincerely to grace will always result in the fruit of christian conversion...repentance.
 
F

Fat

Guest
#19
I agree with the part I bolded 100 %

I also think there are some legalists who try to use against the law against others who still struggle in some areas of their lives and say they can;t be saved. We do not become super mater christains the moment we have faith. Some take longer to grow than others. Like the corinthian church is a great example.

so we must ask ourselves. Even if we love the Lord. And we should keep his commands. Are any of us perfect in this? if not. then what makes us more worthy of eternal life than the next person?
oOfallen_angelOo said:
a lot of people have totally misinterpreted what this really means, and it has become a justification for Christians leading non - Christian lives, as well as excusing themselves from following any of God's commandments regulated by the New Covenant, because they wholesomely believe there are no commandments to follow, because they are automatically guaranteed salvation by God's grace.
Sorry but I do not mean to give the impression that I believed that the saved are without sin or that they are able keep the law. What I'm replying to is the original post is the un-repentance of these so-called Christians. A person cannot be drawn to Christ without first being taught by the father, John 6, and salvation is not complete until that drawing includes repentance. The people shown in the original post show no change of heart, which is what repentance is.

*Strong's Number: * 3341, 3340
Definition
1. a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done, by implication reversal
2. to think differently or afterwards, that is, reconsider (morally to feel compunction):—repent.


Luke 13:3 KJVA
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent , ye shall all likewise perish .

Luke 13:5 KJVA
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent , ye shall all likewise perish .

Acts 2:38 KJVA
Then Peter said unto them, Repent , and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 3:19 KJVA
Repent ye therefore, and be converted , that your sins may be blotted out , when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

I also apologize if you feel that I suggested that there is any man, any man, worthy of grace. I have not yet met this man if he exist please point them out.

Romans 3:10 KJVA
As it is written , There is none righteous, no, not one:
 

PS

Senior Member
Jan 11, 2013
5,399
695
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#20
This video deals very nicely with Law and Grace.

CLICK HERE