The purpose of Christ

[Grandpa]

Excellent stuff here!

The distinction make between the Law of God (Torah) and the Law of sin and death is a crucial one to make when understanding this whole law vs. grace thing.

Making the distinction between the 2 helps make sense of many of Paul's words; Romans 7 in particular. It appears that Paul is speaking out of both sides of his mouth when discussing "the Law". In reality, he's referring to 2 different laws: Torah, and the Law of Sin and Death. That's why he can promote one, yet speak against the other.

That's your mis-understanding of the scriptures. How could Paul be promoting Torah when he wrote this;

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You want to continue working at the law and pretend you are no longer under the curse for doing so.

Don't pretend that's what Paul is saying in scripture.

2 Corinthians 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

There is no doubt what the law of sin and death is.

 

[Jeff_56]

because you don't want to be healed, no one will heal you. not even Jesus.

the answer to your questions, if you ever get honest, is in Scripture, not in man.

like the meaning of dreams, the meaning of GOD'S WORD rests with GOD.

none of the men sent by God have any credibility with those who believe in anything or anyone other than Jesus, or who love the world, their own life, or the things of the world , or did that skip your attention?

all mental and other illness can be healed also, "if you will" seek Jesus care and word - HE shows how.... .

all in all in HIS SALVATION(HEALING).

how do you know who is saved or not? There are some pretty serious mental issues that accompany such a claim, and as such, is why you have almost nil credibility on this board.

 

[Grandpa]

A point of clarification....



This is not entirely true. Many people think of the Law as a set of physical rules, but in reality the Law was meant to change the heart AND the heart.

Deuteronomy 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might."

It had nothing to do with "rote obedience to external instructions". If people took the time to read through the whole Law (which many Christians do not), and attempt to study through the lens of the Holy Spirit, it is full of God's Spirit drawing man's heart unto Him.

Skinski does have more in common with legalists than anyone else. But he's one step ahead of you guys. He knows that its not by the works of the law that we are saved, perfected or changed.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Torah makes nothing perfect. The Lord Jesus, who is the Better Hope, is who perfects us.

 

[Sirk]

because you don't want to be healed, no one will heal you. not even Jesus.

the answer to your questions, if you ever get honest, is in Scripture, not in man.

like the meaning of dreams, the meaning of GOD'S WORD rests with GOD.

none of the men sent by God have any credibility with those who believe in anything or anyone other than Jesus, or who love the world, their own life, or the things of the world , or did that skip your attention?

all mental and other illness can be healed also, "if you will" seek Jesus care and word - HE shows how.... .

all in all in HIS SALVATION(HEALING).

anosognosia......

 

[KohenMatt]

Skinski does have more in common with legalists than anyone else. But he's one step ahead of you guys. He knows that its not by the works of the law that we are saved, perfected or changed.

Hebrews 7:18-19
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Torah makes nothing perfect. The Lord Jesus, who is the Better Hope, is who perfects us.

As always grandpa, I challenge you to show me just one post where I have said that "by the works of the law that we are saved, perfected or changed", or anything like it.

I can guarantee that you will not.

 

[just-me]

Faith repositions a believer in Christ. This is the "law of liberty" when we look into the mirror, not forgetting the reflection of what was seen. The mirror is the word of God. "ALL OF IT," not just what we want to see. It's not our mirror, it's His.

Without faith, the works of the law puts us under the law, but if faith causes us to do God's will, and follow His instructions, we are living within the "law of liberty."

Faith is not taken away by the observance of the law. Not only that, seeing the validity of the law is not self works just because it's esteemed as "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

James 1:21-25
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

 

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by Viligant_Warrior

But then by His resurrection, He overcomes that death, thus winning the battle on our behalf and granting to us the rewards of His victory. The condemnation of the Law is overcome, and by His grace we have eternal life through faith in Him as an efficacious sacrifice on our behalf and the certainty that we now abide in Him.

You might as well be a full blown Gnostic. You think you are saved because you believe in some "knowledge" of this "legal transfer" that you believe in and thus "trust in it."

It is all just a rehash of the ancient Mystery Religion and its latter development of Gnosticism dressed up with vague allusions to Bible terminology.

Are you really that easy to fool? Are you really willing to uphold such in the face of all the evidence to the contrary?

Woe to be you if you are.

(To Skinski)

You were doing pretty good, until you got to this point.

You don't earn your way into heaven by being Righteous.

You are made Righteous by the Lord Jesus Christ and you are granted entrance into Heaven by His Grace and Mercy.

Its all a gift. Not something you earn.

The ability to walk in the spirit is a gift. A beautiful gift. But its not the cause of our Righteousness. The Lord Jesus Christ makes us Righteous and then he gives us the ability to walk in His Holy Spirit. Its all part of our Salvation that God has provided to us by His Grace and Mercy. NOt by our work.

You've come a long way Skinski, but you are still working for your salvation and attempting to cause others to work for theirs as well.

 

[Jeff_56]

bless you. that must be quite a challenge with the regular doctors.

just take niacin(the nutritious kind that causes dilation/red skin from blood flow) as tolerated and directed on the package, 1 to 3 times a day.

in 2 or 3 months you'll 'feel better'. (can't say any more than that legally)

anosognosia......

 

[Jeff_56]

..... but you are still working for your salvation and attempting to cause others to work for theirs as well.

(to whoever said they were carnal and didn't know how a carnal man could become not carnal,
or something to that effect.) .

how can a carnal man get away with claiming that (quote above) about someone else who is not carnal ?

 

[Grandpa]

As always grandpa, I challenge you to show me just one post where I have said that "by the works of the law that we are saved, perfected or changed", or anything like it.

I can guarantee that you will not.

Are we going to pretend that neither of us knows what Torah is?

Are we going to pretend you didn't just say that the Law changes the mind and the heart?

Well if we are going to pretend all that I guess I may as well pretend that you don't say "by the works of the law we are saved, perfected, or changed", or anything like it.

Well, probably not.

Anyways, Skinski knows...

 

[Sirk]

bless you. that must be quite a challenge with the regular doctors.

just take niacin(the nutritious kind that causes dilation/red skin from blood flow) as tolerated and directed on the package, 1 to 3 times a day.

in 2 or 3 months you'll 'feel better'. (can't say any more than that legally)

I'm surprised that a lucid person exists inside you somewhere Jeff....glad to see it come out.

 

[Grandpa]

anosognosia......

Did you just make that up? lol.

Now I have to google it...

 

[KohenMatt]

Are we going to pretend that neither of us knows what Torah is?

Are we going to pretend you didn't just say that the Law changes the mind and the heart?

Well if we are going to pretend all that I guess I may as well pretend that you don't say "by the works of the law we are saved, perfected, or changed", or anything like it.

Well, probably not.

Do I believe that walking in obedience to what God says to do changes my heart and mind? Absolutely. Obedience to anything in the Word does, Old Testament or New.

But there is a BIG difference between saying the Law can change the mind and heart, and saying that the Law saves.

And you can pretend whatever you want, but the fact remains that I never said the Law perfects or saves.

Prove it.

 

[Elin]

You continue to frame the question incorrectly. It is not "If Jesus came to change His Father's will ... " but is is "How does the Law fit into the Father's will?" The way you ask the question, it is an invalid question, a heretical question. Jesus did not come to change His Father's will. He came to do -- and He, in fact, accomplished -- the Father's will. I don't know why you insist on putting forth a question that comes out of an errant assumption.

That's how they misrepresent and set up straw men to shoot down.

 

[Elin]

Jesus was an example of us to follow, we are to walk in the Spirit like Jesus did. The law cannot establish righteousness because it is merely descriptive of external conduct as opposed to being descriptive of the condition of the heart. A faith working by love is descriptive of a pure heart out of which genuine righteousness flows

None of this is confusing or complicated in the least. The reason it is rejected as the standard is because many people simply do not want to yield wholeheartedly to God whereby they would be quickened unto a faith that works by love. Many people want a "salvation" which is inclusive of ongoing wickedness and thus have to uphold fake doctrine which server to CLOAK or COVER ongoing sin as opposed to
having sin actually purged once and for all.

Once and for all?

Not quite. . .are we told to confess our sins (1Jn 1:8-10).

 

[just-me]

This thread is for defining the difference between the old and new person in Christ Jesus, and what we once were and what we are now in Him by faith. The purpose of Christ is to change us, not His Father's words. It is not for the purpose of trying to define that the law is contrary to the Spirit, God's grace, or the gift of faith. God's Spirit is now in the new man, and negates the old man by the power of Christ Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. We cannot say that this is identical with the law of God and His Holy Spirit, for they are certainly not contrary to each other. We are talking salvation by faith, not negation by faith.

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." Galatians 5:17

1 Corinthians 10:1-3
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; [SUP]
2 [/SUP]And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

 

[Grandpa]

(to whoever said they were carnal and didn't know how a carnal man could become not carnal,
or something to that effect.) .

how can a carnal man get away with claiming that (quote above) about someone else who is not carnal ?

You are still confused, sir.

I never said I was a carnal man trying not to be. I just asked the question.

Trying to get people to see for themselves. But they hardly ever do.

They usually just make assumptions, just like you.

 

[Sirk]

Did you just make that up? lol.

Now I have to google it...

It's an inability to be self aware.

 

[Elin]

Ephesians 2:15-16
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

Please describe your understanding of this scripture and what it is actually saying in your estimation. I understand it as the physical temple and Aaronic priesthood (that revealed a division) was abolished in Christ with it's ordinances. I don't believe it is talking about Exodus 20 through 23, and other commandments in compression to those.

In Eph 2:12-16, two enmities were reconciled when the law was abolished on the cross in the flesh of Christ:

1) enmity between Jew and Gentile, caused by the Mosaic regulations of defilement and
2) enmity between the one body of reconciled Jews and Gentiles and God, caused by the curse of the law.

 

[Jeff_56]

it is written in God's WORD that i should let you know that i have your best interest and welfare at heart.
and this is true.
but some time ago, (along with dark comrades) , you started attacking those of us who post what GOD'S WORD says,
even though you don't understand God or HIS WORD or us.

others watching have noted this also, without taking sides. (and in different words, more like you and your group use much worse language and attack others who expose your errors instead of learning from them)

you aren't happy with things as they are, and you're not at peace nor full of joy in christ jesus,
and
some or a lot here think that that condition is normal and accepted in the body of CHRIST, but it is not.

it is not normal nor accepted in the body of christ to not be at peace, to not have joy in all circumstances,

or to continue living in unrighteousness as if at home with sin and allowing it to snuggle up.

to wit: do you think sin should be forsaken? do you think you should seek God and Jesus and do what Jesus says ? (learn from Jesus).
if not, we're not even supposed to talk to you, greet you, nor have a meal with you (if you call yourself a christian)

I'm surprised that a lucid person exists inside you somewhere Jeff....glad to see it come out.