The Rapture Is here:]
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N
Horrible things ???????? you been listing to toooo many people . Because the scriptures do not teach horrible things will happen ( in a physical sense ). it actually teaches there is a mass deception , perpetrated by ignorant Christians and Satan himself.. not death and killings as you been likely mislead .. im telling you, just read it, the Bible never teaches what you described here. again I keep pointing to Pauls 2nd thess letter. and im ignored for trying ... -_-
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The reason i ask you if you believe there are 2 raptures
EZEKIEL34 [9] Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word ofthe Lord; [10] Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; andI will require my flockat their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding theflock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will delivermy flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them. [11] For thussaith the Lord God;Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek themout. [12] AS A SHEPHERD SEEKETH OUT HIS FLOCK IN THE DAY THAT HE IS AMONG HISSHEEP THAT ARE SCATTERED; SO WILL I SEEK OUT MY SHEEP, AND WILL DELIVER THEMOUT OF ALL PLACES WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN SCATTERED IN THE CLOUDY AND DARK DAY.[13] And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from thecountries, AND WILL BRING THEM TO THEIR OWN LAND, and feed them upon themountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of thecountry. [14] I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountainsof Israel shall their fold be:there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fatpasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. [15] I will feed myflock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God. [16] I WILL SEEKTHAT WHICH WAS LOST, and bring again that which was driven away,
When He gathers His people in the above scripture do you believe it will be done in the twinkling of an eye or by public transit?
EZEKIEL34 [9] Therefore, O ye shepherds, hear the word ofthe Lord; [10] Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against the shepherds; andI will require my flockat their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding theflock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will delivermy flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them. [11] For thussaith the Lord God;Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek themout. [12] AS A SHEPHERD SEEKETH OUT HIS FLOCK IN THE DAY THAT HE IS AMONG HISSHEEP THAT ARE SCATTERED; SO WILL I SEEK OUT MY SHEEP, AND WILL DELIVER THEMOUT OF ALL PLACES WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN SCATTERED IN THE CLOUDY AND DARK DAY.[13] And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from thecountries, AND WILL BRING THEM TO THEIR OWN LAND, and feed them upon themountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of thecountry. [14] I will feed them in a good pasture, and upon the high mountainsof Israel shall their fold be:there shall they lie in a good fold, and in a fatpasture shall they feed upon the mountains of Israel. [15] I will feed myflock, and I will cause them to lie down, saith the Lord God. [16] I WILL SEEKTHAT WHICH WAS LOST, and bring again that which was driven away,
When He gathers His people in the above scripture do you believe it will be done in the twinkling of an eye or by public transit?
N
Ezekiel 13: ( The whole chapter is about teachers Claiming to be from God, and saying God said, and He never said. And He ( GOD) IS against them :
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, ( for money ) to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows,(coverings they use to hide God's truth to his people) wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
future, and what a happy future it will be,,,,, for some... For those that have perpetuated the lies, only shame.
This is just one of many places, you need to become very familiar with... Or if you listen to people, then you will be easily deceived by their half truths and straight downright lies. .
18 And say, Thus saith the Lord God; Woe to the women that sew pillows to all armholes, and make kerchiefs upon the head of every stature to hunt souls! Will ye hunt the souls of my people, and will ye save the souls alive that come unto you?
19 And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, ( for money ) to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, by your lying to my people that hear your lies?
20 Wherefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I am against your pillows,(coverings they use to hide God's truth to his people) wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.
21 Your kerchiefs also will I tear, and deliver my people out of your hand, and they shall be no more in your hand to be hunted; and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
22 Because with lies ye have made the heart of the righteous sad, whom I have not made sad; and strengthened the hands of the wicked, that he should not return from his wicked way, by promising him life:
23 Therefore ye shall see no more vanity, nor divine divinations: for I will deliver my people out of your hand: and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
future, and what a happy future it will be,,,,, for some... For those that have perpetuated the lies, only shame.
This is just one of many places, you need to become very familiar with... Or if you listen to people, then you will be easily deceived by their half truths and straight downright lies. .
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N
They seek death but find non, because of Christ true return. Not because of "" horrors" they cant die, because as 1 thee 4 states all are changed into spiritual bodies, and Christ will Judge. They been deceived before the fact, and that is why they ask to die, in that chapter you mentioned, because in the chapter Christ has returned . because of the emmence shame they want to be hidden under mountians. because Satan, just prior decived the whole world, ..
Yes I understand that we must prove everything with scripture, and i know that We cannot believe everything we hear. Because many people lie and decieve, but God made it very clear to me in both his word and when he spoke to me to be ready and excited because the rapture is here. He told me he is coming for us and i believe him.
N
He told you? ( did you bother to read Ezekiel 13 that was just posted ? Who ever told you that in a dream or whatever., it is in direct controdition to what is written....
maybe your not aware of this. but the rapture was started, by a possessed women in 1830. She said she thought the vision was from God, but that it felt very evil. but then she had a " BURST OF excitement" and she went with it.... a couple of preachers where near by and started teaching it as scripture, they looked for what would fit it, and ran with it.
It is not written. Plain and simple... But it plays into Satan's plans .... No one will ever see me teaching that to anyone. ever.
maybe your not aware of this. but the rapture was started, by a possessed women in 1830. She said she thought the vision was from God, but that it felt very evil. but then she had a " BURST OF excitement" and she went with it.... a couple of preachers where near by and started teaching it as scripture, they looked for what would fit it, and ran with it.
It is not written. Plain and simple... But it plays into Satan's plans .... No one will ever see me teaching that to anyone. ever.
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1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -
ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -
ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
Seems the 2 above scriptures are speaking of the same event. The Day of the Lord. Which as a matter of fact happens AFTER the trib period
1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -
ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -
ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.
Seems the 2 above scriptures are speaking of the same event. The Day of the Lord. Which as a matter of fact happens AFTER the trib period
P
NKJV Rev 1:9 I, John, both* your brother and companion in the tribulation and kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was on the island that is called Patmos for the word of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
That's a definite article "the" in the Koine Greek (also before "kingdom")
KJV Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
So if the gathering of the elect were before the tribulation it would have had to have preceded John's pen.
That's a definite article "the" in the Koine Greek (also before "kingdom")
KJV Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.
So if the gathering of the elect were before the tribulation it would have had to have preceded John's pen.
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Indeed. The issue of opinion regarding the return of Jews to Israel is easy enough to judge by the fruit:
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post985301
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/60682-return-jews-israel-13.html#post985301
Are you sure you know HIS voice?
GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.
Honest Abe heard Gods "voice" and so he kept His commandments
JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Also Gods sheep hear His “voice”.
DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God. [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Cant do a song and dance around above scripture. It is truly Gods 10 commandments. So Blain you say you know His voice? According to scripture Blain?
HEBREWS 3 [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that THEY COULD NOT ENTER IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.
Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)
Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)
EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.
Im not going off topic...just questioning whose voice ya hear
GENESIS 26 [3] Sojourn in this land, and I will be with thee, and will bless thee; for unto thee, AND UNTO THY SEED, I will give all these countries, and I WILL PERFORM THE OATH WHICH I SWARE UNTO ABRAHAM thy father; [4] And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; [5] BECAUSE THAT ABRAHAM OBEYED MY VOICE, and kept my charge, MY COMMANDMENTS, my statutes, and MY LAWS.
Honest Abe heard Gods "voice" and so he kept His commandments
JOHN 10 [27] MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, and I know them, and they follow me: [28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
Also Gods sheep hear His “voice”.
DEUT. 27 [8] And thou shalt write upon the stones all the words of this law very plainly. [9] And Moses and the priests the Levites spake unto all Israel, saying, Take heed, and hearken, O Israel; this day thou art become the people of the Lord thy God. [10] Thou shalt therefore OBEY THE VOICE of the Lord thy God, and DO HIS COMMANDMENTS and his statutes, which I command thee this day.
DEUT. 4 [12] And the Lord spake unto you out of the midst of the fire: ye heard THE VOICE of the words, but saw no similitude; only ye heard a voice. [13] And he declared unto you his covenant, which HE COMMANDED YOU TO PERFORM, EVEN TEN COMMANDMENTS; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
Cant do a song and dance around above scripture. It is truly Gods 10 commandments. So Blain you say you know His voice? According to scripture Blain?
HEBREWS 3 [14] For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; [15] While it is said, TO DAY IF YE WILL HEAR HIS VOICE, HARDEN NOT YOUR HEARTS, AS IN THE PROVOCATION. [16] For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came OUT OF EGYPT by Moses. [17] But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, WHOSE CARCASES FELL IN THE WILDERNESS? [18] And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not? [19] So we see that THEY COULD NOT ENTER IN BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF.
Scripture above (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - those that believed not - destroyed them)
Scripture below (out of Egypt - into the wilderness - polluted HIS SABBATHS - destroyed them)
EZEK.20 [10] Wherefore I caused them to go forth OUT OF THE LAND OF EGYPT, and brought them INTO THE WILDERNESS. [11] And I gave them my statutes, and shewed them my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them.[12] Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.[13] But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and MY SABBATHS THEY GREATLY POLLUTED: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them IN THE WILDERNESS, TO CONSUME THEM.
Im not going off topic...just questioning whose voice ya hear
Yes I know his voice, when you get to know and love God as i do you know his voice. He speaks to all of us most just don't know how to listen. As Jesus once said My sheep know my voice. I also know the voice of the devil, but sometimes there comes a time when the distractions of the world will cloud the voice of God so you may have trouble knowing who is who
There is NO rapture in the Bible.
"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lordin the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:17
This is the same word used in Acts 28:15
"And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage."
They met Paul and then they all returned together to Rome. This word is only used in a few places in the Bible. It ALWAYS means meet and return. In other sources that are contemporary with the Bible, it means to go out and greet a returning conqueror and return with him.
The word 'rapture" is not found in the Bible, but only in a bad translation by Jerome in the Latin Vulgate.
I don't understand how people can make a doctrine based on a word that is not in the Bible and has no evidence to support it. One scripture does not make a doctrine. And as for all the other ones that people use, like Rev. 20, the only place in the Bible the word "millennium" is used, and obscure Scriptures, some of which referred to the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 AD, it is just bad exegesis.
Jesus will return for his people. But no one knows the day or the hour. Eschatology today is a best a guess, and at worst an attempt to control and manipulate people that "the End is nigh!"
If the end, comes, our only hope is to be walking with Christ, and to be doing his will. All this speculation just degrades the cause of Christ. Preach Jesus, and him crucified, and you will in God's will and promoting the gospel.
Jesus will not return until the gospel is preached to "all the world" Matt. 24:14
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."
Perhaps the people proclaiming the rapture should instead become missionaries to the unreached peoples and then Jesus will come sooner. Because that has been the purpose of the church since Jesus returned to heaven. To preach the gospel to all the earth. Not to formulate doctrines which are Scripturally unsound and do not proclaim the gospel!!
"Then we who are alive, who are left, will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lordin the air, and so we will always be with the Lord." 1 Thess. 4:17
This is the same word used in Acts 28:15
"And the brothers there, when they heard about us, came as far as the Forum of Appius and Three Taverns to meet us. On seeing them, Paul thanked God and took courage."
They met Paul and then they all returned together to Rome. This word is only used in a few places in the Bible. It ALWAYS means meet and return. In other sources that are contemporary with the Bible, it means to go out and greet a returning conqueror and return with him.
The word 'rapture" is not found in the Bible, but only in a bad translation by Jerome in the Latin Vulgate.
I don't understand how people can make a doctrine based on a word that is not in the Bible and has no evidence to support it. One scripture does not make a doctrine. And as for all the other ones that people use, like Rev. 20, the only place in the Bible the word "millennium" is used, and obscure Scriptures, some of which referred to the desolation of Jerusalem in 70 AD, it is just bad exegesis.
Jesus will return for his people. But no one knows the day or the hour. Eschatology today is a best a guess, and at worst an attempt to control and manipulate people that "the End is nigh!"
If the end, comes, our only hope is to be walking with Christ, and to be doing his will. All this speculation just degrades the cause of Christ. Preach Jesus, and him crucified, and you will in God's will and promoting the gospel.
Jesus will not return until the gospel is preached to "all the world" Matt. 24:14
"And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come."
Perhaps the people proclaiming the rapture should instead become missionaries to the unreached peoples and then Jesus will come sooner. Because that has been the purpose of the church since Jesus returned to heaven. To preach the gospel to all the earth. Not to formulate doctrines which are Scripturally unsound and do not proclaim the gospel!!
W
At what point will people realize that Paul didnt just wake up on a wensday a say what the heck I am going to teach and write letters on NEW THINGS!!!!!!!! Things GOD forgot to even wtite in the WORD you know that thing GOD gave us Jh.1;1
I say this in all these type threads. Proverbs 25;2 It is the glory of GOD that covers. HE isnt trying to trick HIS children.
GOD has given us rules to follow and the the first rule of study is HE is right and everybody else is wrong. If someone teaches you things that cant be found in the O/T. Just chalk it up to a bad translation no problem.
Paul writes all his letters to a group of people that understood this concept. They were real HEBREWS they would of known the Torah. The leaders taught from the O/T and proved what they taught Acts 17;11 Yeshua in Lk.4;16-18 opens the Isa. scroll and teaches HE didnt add to it or subtract from it. Paul is trying to teach by explaining what was all ways there. Keep these things in mind while you study.
Just find out what Paul is talking about. When He talks about a rature "the last trump", all of the people that taught, knew Paul was talking about feast of trumpets Lev 23. In 1 thes 5;1 please look up what He means times and seasons It is not winter, spring, summer and fall. Hebrews did not use a solar calendar they kept Gen. 1;14 a lunar calendar for "moadeem" = seasons.
I would tell anyone trying to understand Revelation. Please go back to the beginning and start over learn what all the authors in the N/T were well aware of thanks. You are suppose to have fun in your studies. Blessings
I say this in all these type threads. Proverbs 25;2 It is the glory of GOD that covers. HE isnt trying to trick HIS children.
GOD has given us rules to follow and the the first rule of study is HE is right and everybody else is wrong. If someone teaches you things that cant be found in the O/T. Just chalk it up to a bad translation no problem.
Paul writes all his letters to a group of people that understood this concept. They were real HEBREWS they would of known the Torah. The leaders taught from the O/T and proved what they taught Acts 17;11 Yeshua in Lk.4;16-18 opens the Isa. scroll and teaches HE didnt add to it or subtract from it. Paul is trying to teach by explaining what was all ways there. Keep these things in mind while you study.
Just find out what Paul is talking about. When He talks about a rature "the last trump", all of the people that taught, knew Paul was talking about feast of trumpets Lev 23. In 1 thes 5;1 please look up what He means times and seasons It is not winter, spring, summer and fall. Hebrews did not use a solar calendar they kept Gen. 1;14 a lunar calendar for "moadeem" = seasons.
I would tell anyone trying to understand Revelation. Please go back to the beginning and start over learn what all the authors in the N/T were well aware of thanks. You are suppose to have fun in your studies. Blessings
