The Rapture

[Roadkill]

Look, I have sparred enough here with you Endoscopy.
I will not do so anymore because it vexes my spirit.

Those who have the ability to perceive spiritually will know I'm speaking the truth.
Those of you who don't have been given the sign in May.
Those of you who are closed minded are not even going to accept that but no matter, it's not for you but your grandchildren. LOL

 

[Troubled65]

I'm proving away and using the King James Version. Will not recognize any other version as you all should do the same. A small change in a verse can alter it's meaning drastically as I have demonstrated earlier. I know it's not perfect but it's the best we have.

I agree about the KJV also, but recent copies have either failed to put translaters added words in italics or have changed which words they put in italics. So, be alert to that.

 

[garee]

By the way, this is one of your examples that the Temple Mount was in Jerusalem. LOL

It could be on Mars. It really does not matter where it was, as a shadow...the kingdom of God is not of this world system, as a shadow it pointed to the unseen eternal. The shadow will go up in smoke when the new heavens and earth appear.

We walk by faith the eternal, according prescription of the hermeneutics assigned to it.(2Co 4:18) Then we can find the spiritual unseen meanings hid in parables called the hidden Manna, in Revelation 2. The temporal will never do anything other than point towards that not seen the eternal.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I'm proving away and using the King James Version. Will not recognize any other version as you all should do the same. A small change in a verse can alter it's meaning drastically as I have demonstrated earlier. I know it's not perfect but it's the best we have.

Greetings Roadkill,

Why be restricted to the KJV or any version, when you can go directly to the Greek? In my studies I often look at any given verse side by side in comparison of all the major translations, as well as the Interlinear.

Regarding post #9141 where you said "Those who have the ability to perceive spiritually will know I'm speaking the truth." It's not a matter of spiritual perception, because what you are proclaiming is not written and therefore the proof of May must settle it, since we can't read it. Regarding your claims, we have already seen contention by what you are claiming vs God's written word. For example, you claim that the gathering of the church will take place over a 3 day period, yet scripture does not support this, for dead will rise first and then the living in Christ will be changed in an "atomos" which is an indivisible amount of time, i.e. an amount of time to short to divide, where we are caught up with the resurrected in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. No where does any scripture specify a 3 day event.

In addition, you claimed that during the tribulation that no children will be conceived, which is in direct contention with God's written word, as demonstrated by the following:

" How miserable those days will be for pregnant and nursing mothers! Pray that your flight will not occur in the winter or on the Sabbath. For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again."

Regarding the above, we don't have to wait for May as proof, because it is already in contention with the written word of God. Now, since you have already demonstrated that your claim is in error with God's word, what other claims are in error? If you have been found to be wrong in a couple of places already, it brings into question anything else that you may claim as receiving from an angel.

 

[garee]

Has someone ever done a geological core test to see if the dirt changes from the emplaced dirt to the original mountain top? That would settle this once and for all. Care to fund this project? LOL

Will you send a hundred dollars to fund I am broke? LOL

We simply do not know God after rudiments of this world. He is not a man as us a creation. That shadow was made to no effect when the veil was rent. Whatever rudiment it was made of God has tested the core when he said.... let it be, and it was good .

The idea that it would matter can be taken under a microscope and it will never reveal the faith that comes from hearing Christ.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[Ahwatukee]

First, I don't speak to God. This is his angel that I have been given the courtesy to speak with and this is not his primary task. He's a Guardian Angel for my Wife. That's his primary task, to protect my wife from demonic forces.

Irrelevant! You are claiming that an angel of God is giving you this information and therefore, an angel is not going to contradict God's written word. In other words, an angel is not going to proclaim anything that is contrary to God's word, but instead should be reinforcing it.

Second, Jesus's return will indeed be in a Twinkling of an Eye. Different event from Rapture of the Church Age.

The above is another deviation from God's written word, as demonstrated from the following scripture:

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."

The event above is describing the same event that Paul revealed in I Thessalonians 4:13-17, where the dead in Christ rise first and then we who are still alive will be changed and caught up with them. Both are referring to the gathering of the church and has nothing to do with the second coming i.e. when Christ returns to the earth to end the age. As I pointed out before, there are a multitude of signs that proceed the Lord's return to the earth to end the age.

Third, The Rapture of the Church is never explicitly mentioned in the New Testament but we are in agreement that this will occur. So here is a Truth that is not written in scripture yet we perceive it to be true. How is this? So what he is telling me about the Rapture is not written in scripture at all. I've testified to this. So how am I contradicting the Scriptures again?

Are you out of your mind?! The gathering of the church (rapture) is most definitely mentioned in scripture. What do you think 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 is speaking about? The word used is "Harpazo" which means to be "caught up, snatched up, for suddenly exercised." Where at which time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, followed by those in Christ who are still alive being changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. So, I don't know how you can say that the "gathering of the church is never explicitly mentioned in the New Testament, when it right there in plain sight."

Yes, waiting with Exasperation until May because you knuckle heads are very tiring to say the least. LOL

We "knuckle heads" don't just believe what someone says because they claim that an angel visited them, especially when it contradicts what God has already written as well as the contradictions of God's written word by other claims previously mentioned . We are trying the spirits.

The gathering of the church (Rapture) = Takes place in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye

The Second Coming = Identified by a multitude of signs and every eye will see the Lord arriving on the clouds

 

[Ahwatukee]

No contention on my part.
This was a double lapped prophecy given by Jesus.
During the Destruction of The Temple Mount and the Siege of Jerusalem in 70 AD it was well documented what the Romans did to small children and nursing mothers.

Wrong again! When the destruction of the temple took place, Israel did not flee out into the wilderness where she was cared for. This event that Jesus is speaking about is directly related to the great tribulation period, as He mentions right in the scripture. This fleeing out into the wilderness mentioned in Matt.24:15-22, is synonymous with Rev.12:6, 14 when the woman (Israel) flees out into the wilderness to that place that will have been prepared for her by God and where she will cared for during that last 3 1/2 years until Christ returns to the earth to end the age. It is during the time of the great tribulation that the reference is made regarding "pregnant women and nursing mothers" and not to the destruction of the temple in 70 AD.

 

[stillness]

Used to be mid trib, now pan trib: it all pan's.out in the end. My presenf view: the earth changes that are coming upon us will be so violent that we will be cought up to God.

 

[Ahwatukee]

"Then we which are alive and remain" out of context I know and I hate to do this but for teaching purposes only I have to. This means the dead in Christ have already left doesn't it? What's the span of time between this and when the Dead in Christ arose first? Doesn't say does it?

Neither does it say that there is a span of time between the dead rising and the living being changed and caught up! I'm gonna go with the fact that time period of when the living are changed which is described as an "atomos", which is defined as too short of a time period to divide, as also referring to the entire process from the time that the dead are raised and the time that the living in Christ are changed and caught up. In other words, the entire event from the dead being raise and the living being changed and caught up, will take place in an "atomos," i.e. a Nano second and not this boloney about the process taking place over a 3 day period by age groups.

Furthermore, no one is going to have the opportunity to believe in Christ because they see the first group caught up, that would undermine the fact that believers are supposed to be watching and anticipating the Lord's return. Your view cancels out the need for faith, because unbelievers would simply be able to see the first group hovering above the earth.

This is how the gathering is going to take place: When the Father gives word to the Lord that it is time, the Lord will descend to the atmosphere and that voice that sounds like a trumpet will say, "come up here" which only true believers in Christ will hear. At that point those who will have died from the on-set of the church until the event of the resurrection (regardless of age), will rise body from their graves, changed immortal and glorified. Immediately after that, the living will be changed into their immortal and glorified bodies (regardless of age) and will all be caught up in the clouds with the resurrected to meet the Lord in the air. At that point the entire church will be present from beginning to end, where at which time the Lord will take the whole group back to the Father's house to those places that He went to prepare for us in fulfillment of John 14:1-3. All this will take place in a Nano second.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Neither does it say that there is a span of time between the dead rising and the living being changed and caught up!

If this is about the Rapture, for all intents and purposes the resurrection of the dead saints and the transformation of the living saints is almost simultaneously. There are no "gaps" in this supernatural event.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Revelation clearly states of the latter two but the Rapture is a Church Age Mystery and does not concern Israel therefore not mentioned in Revelation which concerns that last 7 years of Israel as a Nation.

Revelation is not only about Israel, but includes all the inhabitants on the earth, as God will be pouring out His wrath upon the entire earth via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as fulfilling that last seven years from the decree of seventy sevens upon Israel and Jerusalem. The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments which make up the wrath of God, will be how the Rock/Jesus of Daniel 2:31-46 smashes the feet of the statue to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor where the wind will blow it away without leaving a trace i.e. the dismantling of all Gentile governments. The Rock/Jesus becoming a huge mountain and filling the whole earth, is referring to the Lord's millennial kingdom.

The gathering of the church is indeed mentioned in Revelation 4:1 which is a prophetic allusion to the gathering of the church, when that voice that sounds like a trumpet, which is synonymous with the "trumpet call of God" found in 1 Thes.4:16, says "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this," i.e. after the "what is now" or after the church period. This is exactly why we don't see the word "Ekklesia" translated as "church" anymore after the end of chapter 3.

 

[Ahwatukee]

If this is about the Rapture, for all intents and purposes the resurrection of the dead saints and the transformation of the living saints is almost simultaneously. There are no "gaps" in this supernatural event.

I totally agree and is what I told Roadkill in the same post. My belief is that, where it states that the living will be changed in a moment, refers to the entire event of the dead rising and the living being changed and caught up. I believe that the entire event will take place in a Nano second, which is completely different from Roadkills claim that the gathering will be a three day event, with the dead rising and being caught up on the first day so that all the inhabitants of the earth will be able to see them. On the second day he says that everyone 25 years and younger who are living, will be transformed and caught up, with the rest being caught up on day three.

Whatever he's been having conversations with, it is certainly not an angel from God.

 

[garee]

Are you out of your mind?! The gathering of the church (rapture) is most definitely mentioned in scripture. What do you think 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-53 is speaking about? The word used is "Harpazo" which means to be "caught up, snatched up, for suddenly exercised." Where at which time the dead in Christ will be resurrected, followed by those in Christ who are still alive being changed and caught up with them to meet the Lord in the air. So, I don't know how you can say that the "gathering of the church is never explicitly mentioned in the New Testament, when it right there in plain sight."

I would think it's all one work of God's faith, in the twinkling of the eye.(both those on earth and those asleep ) not all sleep. The last trump, the last day, the day all receive their new incorruptible bodies

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we (both) shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1Co 15:51

Heb 11:39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that "they" without us should not be made perfect.


That us above represents both those asleep and those riegning with Christ on earth on the last day

 

[PlainWord]

There you go with your assertion that a book about end times prophecies happened in 70AD. When did the tribulation occur? The prophecy states if it was not shortened all life on earth would be killed. When did that happen??? Daniel and Revelation go hand in hand. When did the rapture occur. I don't know where you got that idea from but it is contrary to eschatology. Too many prophecies not fulfilled. Read Daniel and Revelation again looking at the devastation that did not happen. Only today can our weapons make this kind of destruction possible.

All of Daniel has been fulfilled. I agree it ties nicely to Revelation. Where does it say all life on earth will be killed if the tribulation was not shortened? There is a passage about it being shortened for the sake of the Elect, but I'm not familiar with the passage you mention.

The "tribulation" happened when Rome surrounded Jerusalem and laid siege to the city. Those inside suffered the worst horrors imaginable, the worst since there was a nation (according to Daniel). According to Jesus, it was the worst the world will ever see. Read it again:

[SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.​

"Nor shall ever be" should be a clue to you that the world does not end at the conclusion of the great tribulation (of Israel), life goes on.

​

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Jesus gives the location as JUDEA, not the entire planet. How would fleeing Judea save anyone from a world-wide destruction event?

The nature of the resurrection and so-called "rapture" have been totally misunderstood by so many. The resurrection happens in the spiritual realm. Mortals cannot see it. The resurrection was the freeing from Hades of the believers who had died before Christ and went there to "rest." They then were admitted to heaven, Christ having paid for the sins and restoring the separation that they had from God. This is the catching up Paul was talking about, in the air (aer). Look up the meaning of aer, it is not the same word as air as in sky.

"To meet the Lord in the aer" is to meet in the spirit. The word "air" or aer is the same word used here in Eph 2:

And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, ​

[SUP]2 [/SUP]in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience.​

​

Do you see now?​

​

 

[Endoscopy]

Look, I have sparred enough here with you Endoscopy.
I will not do so anymore because it vexes my spirit.

Those who have the ability to perceive spiritually will know I'm speaking the truth.
Those of you who don't have been given the sign in May.
Those of you who are closed minded are not even going to accept that but no matter, it's not for you but your grandchildren. LOL

Here is scripture I finally found. It was found in looking for the Sabbath issue. It contains a verse that I couldn't find. I highlighted the verse.

Colossians 2 AMPC

6 As you have therefore received Christ, [even] Jesus the Lord, [so] walk (regulate your lives and conduct yourselves) in union with and conformity to Him.

7 Have the roots [of your being] firmly and deeply planted [in Him, fixed and founded in Him], being continually built up in Him, becoming increasingly more confirmed and established in the faith, just as you were taught, and abounding and overflowing in it with thanksgiving.

8 See to it that no one carries you off as spoil or makes you yourselves captive by his so-called philosophy and intellectualism and vain deceit (idle fancies and plain nonsense), following human tradition (men’s ideas of the material rather than the spiritual world), just crude notions following the rudimentary and elemental teachings of the universe and disregarding [the teachings of] Christ (the Messiah).

9 For in Him the whole fullness of Deity (the Godhead) continues to dwell in bodily form [giving complete expression of the divine nature].

10 And you are in Him, made full and having come to fullness of life [in Christ you too are filled with the Godhead—Father, Son and Holy Spirit—and reach full spiritual stature]. And He is the Head of all rule and authority [of every angelic principality and power].

11 In Him also you were circumcised with a circumcision not made with hands, but in a [spiritual] circumcision [performed by] Christ by stripping off the body of the flesh (the whole corrupt, carnal nature with its passions and lusts).

12 [Thus you were circumcised when] you were buried with Him in [your] baptism, in which you were also raised with Him [to a new life] through [your] faith in the working of God [as displayed] when He raised Him up from the dead.

13 And you who were dead in trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your flesh (your sensuality, your sinful carnal nature), [God] brought to life together with [Christ], having [freely] forgiven us all our transgressions,

14 Having cancelled and blotted out and wiped away the handwriting of the note (bond) with its legal decrees and demands which was in force and stood against us (hostile to us). This [note with its regulations, decrees, and demands] He set aside and cleared completely out of our way by nailing it to [His] cross.

15 [God] disarmed the principalities and powers that were ranged against us and made a bold display and public example of them, in triumphing over them in Him and in it [the cross].

16 Therefore let no one sit in judgment on you in matters of food and drink, or with regard to a feast day or a New Moon or a Sabbath.

17 Such [things] are only the shadow of things that are to come, and they have only a symbolic value. But the reality (the substance, the solid fact of what is foreshadowed, the body of it) belongs to Christ.

18 Let no one defraud you by acting as an umpire and declaring you unworthy and disqualifying you for the prize, insisting on self-abasement and worship of angels, taking his stand on visions [he claims] he has seen, vainly puffed up by his sensuous notions and inflated by his unspiritual thoughts and fleshly conceit,

19 And not holdring fast to the Head, from Whom the entire body, supplied and knit together by means of its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

 

[garee]

I would say the tribulation like the sacrifice (the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world) happened in a spiritual realm. We do not wrestle againast flesh and blood as that seen.

The scriptures are not concerned with political kingdoms of this world.(political Rome against political Jerusalem). The earthly Jerusalem as a shadow has always represented the New Jerusalem as the bride of Christ, not seen.

The tribulation began when the veil was rent. It put a spark to the time of reformation.

The un-believing Jew that would not get under the authority of all things written in the law and the prophets (sola scriptura) lost its ability to have faith in respect to men seen. It scattered them that look for sign before they would believe.


The Jews that had not been born again still require a sign before they will believe. They still hope their flesh could profit for something even though Christ said His own flesh it does not. The period of time that the Jews were used as a parable had come to a end. No more sheep no more, temple or any of the ceremonial things of men seen to be used as a shadow for the time then present

The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: Which was a figure for "the time then present", in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the "time of reformation".But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;Hebrew 9

 

[Nehemiah6]

I would say the tribulation like the sacrifice (the lamb of God slain from before the foundation of the world) happened in a spiritual realm. We do not wrestle against flesh and blood as that seen.

garee,

You can not just make up stuff as you go along. The Tribulation is not something which has already happened, but it is a future event. And it is A UNIQUE EVENT.

And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Dan 12:1)

 

[DiscipleDave]

What is actually happening is that everywhere you put "Opinion" is because you refuse to make the connection to the scripture. For example:

"These are those who did not defile themselves with women."

This is not "Opinion" but infers by the verse that these 144,000 are all males.

It is your opinion that that verse means they are males.

Tell me.

Mat_5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Does "woman" in that verse mean ONLY WOMEN? Are you teaching that this verse then ONLY applies to lusting after WOMEN and not lusting after men? What? In this verse Woman can also be applied to Man, and not just woman. i have plainly showed you a verse and i can show you many more verses as well, that the word "Woman" Does not necessarily mean women ONLY. as you are referring in your above example. You are inferring by your own OPINION that it can ONLY mean women, therefore because of your wrong deduction, you claim the 144,000 sealed of God are only men. wow, and you don't see an issue with that? i have shown you Scriptures where the word woman applies to men as well, but that can't possibly be the case with the above example you give, tell me, why is it IMPOSSIBLE?

The statement "These are those who did not defile themselves with women." is merely a reference to "They are virgins" But for some reason, in your mind you think women in that verse, can ONLY mean women, when there are many other verses which state woman, which can be man as well, or the word "men" that applies to women as well, or the word "He that ________" also applies to SHE that. But for some reason it is YOUR OPINION that women has to be women ONLY, and it is not possible it can mean any thing other than what YOU INFER.

i am telling you the TRUTH, God told me, the 144,000 are children, males and females. i even seen them in a vision walking out of a burnt forest, in a burnt neither light nor dark world, it was amazing to be honest, like a black and white movie, and all of a sudden you see bright colors in the foreground, and see thousands of children as if untouched by the fires or the smoke, walking out of the Burnt to crisp forest, absolutely amazing, and i will never forget it. The 144,000 are children, and these are they that are NOT Raptured with the Saints, but will repopulate the Earth during the 1,000 year reign of Christ on Earth. The prophet Isaiah even speaks about these and they have OFFSPRING, something that is not possible to do with only 144,000 MEN. lol.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind. (New Heaven and New Earth, so we are talking about the HOLY CITY JERUSALEM days of Rev 21:1)
Isa 65:18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy. (people, NOT SAINTS)
Isa 65:19 And I (JESUS) will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people (Firstfruits, the 144,000 redeemed from the Earth): and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.
Isa 65:20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed. (So then these are NOT SAINTS, for the child shall die at a hundred years old, what child is this? NOT A SAINT, NOT RAPTURED, But still present on EARTH and can die, and also with sinners that can die also)
Isa 65:21 And they (144,000) shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
Isa 65:22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands. (These elect, are NOT the SAINTS, Remember all this is during the New Heaven and New Earth, which is AFTER the Rapture)
Isa 65:23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them. (their offspring, so they have sex, they are human males and females, these are the 144,000 children that are sealed during the Tribulation Period, they know not what sin is, nor have they been defiled with women, for they are all virgins, and they will have sex, and off children. And they and their children will be Blessed of the LORD, Again, these are NOT the SAINTS. The Saints are risen, the Saints are raptured, the Saints will reign with Jesus Christ on the Earth for a thousand years. These that Isaiah is talking about, are those 144,000 children that will repopulate the Earth, they will not know what sin or even what it means to be tempted? Why? because satan is bound for a thousand years and can't tempt any human on the planet.)
Isa 65:24 And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. (Why? Because He and His Saints are with them, we are here on Earth with them, reigning over them)
Isa 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD. (Can't wait)

I can't help if you are not intelligent enough to make the connection.

Should i believe you over God? Or should i believe God and not you. You say my intelligence, as if it were me that teaches what i think is TRUE. lol. you have ears but do not hear. i plainly over and over again say what i teach is from God and what He has told me or shown me, but for some reason you fail to hear that, or understand that, but seem to think all that i teach comes from me and my intellect. sigh .. .. .. ..

The verse above also reveals that they are adult males, because it would not have to be said of children that they did not defile themselves with women.

Jesus stood in the midst of a group of Pharisees and said "I will destroy this Temple and rebuild it in three days" He knew full well what He said, and full well what they would believe, and He did not tell them otherwise, but let them believe as they would. The 144,000 are children, you believe what you want to believe, Because God telling me to tell this generation that they are children, is not good enough for you. sigh .. .. .. . ..

Why did you not respond to the Thread Zechariah 14 explained? Because you can't can you, it does not fit into YOUR truth concerning end time events. As far as i am concerned Zechariah 14 makes what you teach a plain false doctrine, else tell me where Zechariah 14 fits into your Timeline of end time events. Because what you believe and teach, i can't possibly see where you would fit Zechariah 14 into. So is it any surprise that you did not comment on it, or just use the excuse, you don't want to respond to me, because i will _______ or ________.

If what you believe contradicts any prophesy in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG. All prophecies are Correct and accurate. If then what you believe does not line up with ALL OF THEM, then what you believe is WRONG. i have shown you Zechariah 14 and many other verses which absolutely prove that what you believe is wrong, but you don't comment on any of those things do you, because if Scriptures does not line up with what YOU believe is the TRUTH, those Scriptures are hidden to you, made void, do not apply. Else explain how Zechariah fits into your time line, that the HOLY City Jerusalem comes down at the end of Everything, 1,000 year mellinium, the Great White Throne Judgment. You teach that Jesus comes to Earth a second time gets the Church takes off again to Heaven, then comes back at the end of the age, AFTER the Great White Throne Judgment, when satan, demons, and the wicked are all thrown into Hell. So tell me, Zechariah 14 plainly says the heathens will come up year to year to worship Jesus Christ at Jerusalem, when does this fit into YOUR doctrine? As i said, Zecharaih 14, PROVES your idea of what YOU think is going to happen in the future, is WRONG, but instead of accepting Zechariah 14, what will you do with it? And if you think i am wanting the credit for this TRUTH, you are sadly mistaken, i have said from the beginning it is God who told me these things, i am merely repeating what He has told me, therefore NOT from me, but from Him who told me those things. And nothing i teach that i say is from Him, is contrary to Word of God, For God does not contradict Himself.

Therefore, your label of it being my "Opinion" is in fact your opinion. What it really means is that you yourself can't make the connection the scriptures.

We should believe God and not men, right?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

lol, Hitler. He was considered to be the antichrist, and fits into a lot of prophesies as well.

DD,
Do you suppose John was talking about Hitler here? "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming."

Why would you quote only a part of what i said, instead of the whole thing i said concerning what i say above. You only quote that part of what i said to imply that is something that i believe. Sigh .. ... . .

So, John was talking about being in the "last hour" and that the Antichrist was coming. My view is, he was talking about the pending destruction of Jerusalem and the end of Israel as a nation and that the Antichrist's arrival was to be tied to this "last hour" of Israel as a nation. Your view is that John looked completely past the total and utter destruction of his country and instead was worried about a generation some 2,000+ years into the future. Your view is that John's hour lasts 2,000 plus years. Your view doesn't pass any smell test, except that of the Rotten Egg.

You do error not understanding the TRUTH of God. IN every generation, Scriptures was written to make people think it was going to be in their generation that the Lord would return. Even Jesus did this when He said "This generation shall not pass away till all these things be fulfilled" Scriptures was specifically written for the generation that would read it. Every generation believed it would be their generation that Jesus would Return, this is how God set it up. Jesus said "I will destroy this Temple and rebuild it in three days" Knowing full well they all misunderstood Him, but He did not correct them did He? Every generation thought Christ would come back during their generation, even 1,000 years ago. The Apostle John was no different.

The AntiChrist that John wrote about was Titus and he came in 70 AD

What does it matter what John actually thought? What is relevant, is what God allowed Him to actually write. God would not allow the Apostle John to write the antichrist is Titus, even if that is what John believed. John wrote what God wanted him to write, and that is what is important, not what John actually personally thought.

who Paul calls "The Man of Sin" and the "Lawless One."

Again, did Paul write it was Titus? Nope. But He wrote exactly what God wanted him to write, so that it would apply to all generation thereafter. God is wiser than man. Who cares if Paul thought the antichrist was __________, what is that to us today?
Know you not that satan goes about to try to fulfill all prophecies that he can possibly do, if people believe they have already happened, then they will most certainly not be looking for it when it does, now will they?

Who ended the Temple, and thus the ability to practice the Law? Could "Lawless" mean "no more Law" or "without Law?"

Destoying a Temple, Never meant NO more Law, no more sacrifices sure, but not no more Law.

True. But none of those you mentioned will cause a great falling away. The antichrist will one day be on TV and say "Where is your God now?" And this will cause a great falling away from ALL FAITHS of the world, not just Christianity. The Muslims will believe he is their Messiah. The Jews will believe his is the coming Messiah.

LOL. You got all of this from this one passage, right? I'm asking, not telling.

Wow, having ears they will not hear. i have said over and over again, and in many different threads, what i teach is what God told me. This one passage that you are talking about, i have not clue to what you are referring to, what i said above is what God told me in one of our many conversations.

[SUP]

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[/SUP]Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you see the word, "television" or "TV" in the above?

Nope, it is in your head that you think i have come up with what i said based on a verse. You are making false assumptions. i have clearly and plainly said that God told me that one day the antichrist will say on TV "Where is your God now" and this will cause all faiths of the World to fall away from their belief in a God of any kind. NO Scriptures told me that, my studies did not come up with that, man did not teach that, i plainly and clearly tell you the TRUTH, that God told me that, but will you hear it this time?

Do you see any mention of all peoples of the world seeing him? If so, please point that out to me.

You do realize mocking is a sin, right?

I see a man sitting in the temple showing himself to be God, opposing and exalting himself above all called God. Titus did this and news flesh, there is no more temple.

Study something called Duel Prophecies, it happens TONS in the Bible. Just because that has happened in the past does NOT mean it can't possibly ever happen again. To this Day the Jews want to build their Temple, they even have this day, all the materials to actually Build it. What you don't understand is that the Jews to this very day are living and dying within their sins, they feel without a Temple they can't sacrifice to God to have their sins forgiven. So they desperately want a Temple built, the only thing preventing them from building it right now is the Muslims, and when the peace agreement is signed between the Jews and the Muslims for 7 years, this is when they will most certainly start building their Temple. Duel Prophecies, please study that.

As for the "falling away" it has nothing to do with today's church. It had everything to do with the apostate Jews and their actions under the Law in those final few years. They totally abandoned the Law and allowed people to pay money to become priests not even requiring them to be from the Tribe of Levi. Later, they just appointed themselves priest and put on their priestly robes. A huge No No. They offered sacrifices to Nero. When the Seditious took over the temple, they killed priests in the Temple and near the alter. They dressed up as women and .... (did bad things with each other in the temple). They slaughtered and killed their countrymen by the tens of thousands. They burned the city's food supply then robbed the people of their food. They drank wine from the temple's holy cups. Would this behavior inside the temple by thousands be considered a "falling away" from the Law?

DUEL PROPHECIES.

Oops, Houston. DD has a problem.

No, i'm fine really, i believe God and not men. i believe what He told me, and i know what is going to happen in the future. Tell me if God was going to choose someone to teach this generation His Truths about what is to come, do you think God would inform him/her what they needed to know concerning what is to come? He did.

When prophesy is 100% totally and accurately fulfilled in close proximity to being given (< 40 years), why would we ignore it and invent an additional prophesy thousands of years later?

DUEL PROPHECIES. You really need to understand how much it happens in the Bible.

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††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

The physical body is indeed asleep(physical death). But the Soul and the Spirit are not asleep. Death is not like falling asleep or being unconscious. Your Soul(conscious self) and your Spirit(life force) are separated at physical death from this physical body. You are completely aware of your surroundings and are conscious of your self being. People with near-death experiences will tell you they were totally aware of what was going on around their bodies while they were separated temporarily from it. They can tell you what people said and did while near their body. Not like some one who is unconscious, they are totally oblivious to what is going on around them while they are unconscious.

Those who die in Christ, their spirits sleep. Those who have OBE's (Out of Body Experiences) are not sleeping are they? They see what is going on around them, and they live again to talk about it, therefore, NOT sleeping are they? True Christians if they die, their spirits will sleep until they rise to be with Jesus Christ. All others who die and come back, are not TRUE Christians, or they would not have come back for another chance.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave