The sons of God in genesis 6

[RachelBibleStudent]

It's not out of context. It is a comparison. And the angels who sinned are being compared in their sin to the people of Sodom and Gomorroah who were not only gay but tried to sleep with angels.

you are ignoring verse five...which mentions the israelite unbelievers who were destroyed after coming out of egypt...that one pretty clearly has nothing to do with the angels' sin...

they are three -unrelated- examples of the wicked being judged

and actually the sins committed in all three cases are identified in verse eight...the section is organized into chiastic form like this...

A...verse five...the sin of the israelite unbelievers after they left egypt
B...verse six...the fallen angels
C...verse seven...the sexual immorality of the sodomites
C'...verse eight...polluting their own bodies...the sin of the sodomites in verse seven
B'...verse eight...rejecting authority...the sin of the fallen angels in verse six
A'...verse eight...slandering celestial beings...the sin of the israelite unbelievers in verse five

so the sin of the fallen angels was actually the rejection of God's authority...not sexual immorality...

 

[gotime]

the angel theory is absurd...and the reference to 'giants' is a mistranslation...

also if you pay close attention to the text...it doesn't even say that the 'giants' were the children produced when the sons of God married the daughters of men...it only says that the 'giants' were on the earth in the days when those people were marrying and having children

dead on Rachel, I don't know how people get this sooooo wrong. If they would just read the text within the context it is very clear we are not talking about angels here.

Blessings to you.

 

[A-Omega]

you are ignoring verse five...which mentions the israelite unbelievers who were destroyed after coming out of egypt...that one pretty clearly has nothing to do with the angels' sin...

they are three -unrelated- examples of the wicked being judged

and actually the sins committed in all three cases are identified in verse eight...the section is organized into chiastic form like this...

A...verse five...the sin of the israelite unbelievers after they left egypt
B...verse six...the fallen angels
C...verse seven...the sexual immorality of the sodomites
C'...verse eight...polluting their own bodies...the sin of the sodomites in verse seven
B'...verse eight...rejecting authority...the sin of the fallen angels in verse six
A'...verse eight...slandering celestial beings...the sin of the israelite unbelievers in verse five

so the sin of the fallen angels was actually the rejection of God's authority...not sexual immorality...

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

This is a comparison. The verses is not recounting the sin of the Sodomites. It is comparing them.
But even that issue aside, who are these angels who left their first estate? Who are the angels that are locked in chains at present? That's really the more relevant issue.

 

[Avinu]

[QUOTEthe hebrew text -does- say 'the sons of God'...or b'nei ha'elohim...not 'divine beings'

and if you knew hebrew even -remotely- as well as you claim to know it...then that fact would be -completely- obvious to you

and for christians the 'we' and 'our' in genesis 1 is clearly the trinity...
__________________
][/quote]Rachel, I try to keep a respectful attitude to everyone on here. But it is clear YOU have a spur in your bun for Israel and hebrew people all the way around. I can speak, read and write hebrew, can you? NO


I HAVE A HEBREW BIBLE WRITTEN IN HEBREW AND IT SAYS 'DIVINE BEINGS'. Bene HaElohim is what it translates to pourly to the english. So you are a liar and you clearly don't know anything about hebrew people or it's language.

oh and humans presented themselves before God all the time in the old testament...it usually referred to visiting the tabernacle with an offering

given that the previous verses mention job sacrificing burnt offerings for his sons' sake...it is likely that job 1:6 and job 2:1 are referring to job and others presenting themselves in worship with their offerings Once again, you have no clue what you're talking about, because Job 1:6 and 2:1 say they went before God in heaven and satan came among them. If you actually knew hebrew and Torah, then you would know that it isn't the tabernacle, because NO ONE was allowed in their except the HIGH PRIEST, and satan definitely wouldn't be able to go in there since that is where God made it for the High Priest to come in before the Ark for the people. So once again you show your ignorance.

i really doubt that it refers to anyone presenting themselves before God in heaven...because satan went with them...how could the most unholy creature in the universe survive in the presence of the most holy God? Do you pay attention to scripture at all, satan went multiple times before God to get God to let him destroy Job. READ THE BIBLE CORRECTLY.
__________________

 

[AnandaHya]

4For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. 5I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
6And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
7Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

This is a comparison. The verses is not recounting the sin of the Sodomites. It is comparing them.
But even that issue aside, who are these angels who left their first estate? Who are the angels that are locked in chains at present? That's really the more relevant issue.

strange that you don't draw a parrallel to the verses before about the people out of the land of Egypt....you know you have the whole word AND to link them together. And is almost as good as Even, right?

 

[CBM82]

Well what does it mean about angels which kept not their first estate but left their habitation?

 

[AnandaHya]

Well what does it mean about angels which kept not their first estate but left their habitation?

not sure who you are addressing but here is what I believe:

always read that as angels who set up people to worship them as false gods. who instead of being guides and helps wanted to be like Lucifer and claim to be God Almighty. Demanding worship from God's children instead of being their servants and caretakers.

What God meant for celestial angels to do:

1. Minister to those who will inherit salvation

Hebrews 1
13 But to which of the angels has He ever said:

“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits sent forth to minister for those who will inherit salvation?

2. Give them the Law

Acts 7:52-54
52 Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, 53 who have received the law by the direction of angels and have not kept it.”

3. To be guardians and stewards of His children:

Galatians 4:1-3
New King James Version (NKJV)
4 Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2 but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father.

Therefore I believe that the verse refers to leaving their habitation in leaving their duty and seeking power and worship where they ought not. often Idol worship is described as whoring after other gods. I believe those false gods to be fallen angels.

 

[CBM82]

not sure who you are addressing but here is what I believe:

Fair enough but I feel strongly that its referring to the sons of God in genesis 6.

 

[CBM82]

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Who are these spirits? Spirits often time refer to angels or demons.

Only in one other verse does it refer to human beings who have died.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Seems more than likely to me that these spirits were angels.

 

[nath1234]

wow some very interesting posts

i also think this deserves a mention

9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

so as for me i im going with the angel theroy as it is what the hebrew says acording to Avinu who is hebrew

and it is also what the septuigent says so there is not realy any way to argue that it is not angels

it what the text says it is

the angel theroy could also have some interesting implications in terms of this verse

Matthew 24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

considering the genetic engineering front and how they are right now in the process of developing geneticaly enhanced solidgers for the american army and working on designer babys
this could be used to hide what satan entends to do

Nath

 

[AnandaHya]

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Who are these spirits? Spirits often time refer to angels or demons.

Only in one other verse does it refer to human beings who have died.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

G4151
πνεῦμα
pneuma
pnyoo'-mah
From G4154; a current of air, that is, breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figuratively a spirit, that is, (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, daemon, or (divine) God, Christ’s spirit, the Holy spirit: - ghost, life, spirit (-ual, -ually), mind. Compare G5590.

Seems more than likely to me that these spirits were angels.

that isn't very logical.

Human's have spirits too. otherwise these verses would make no sense...

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

and there are many more.

Have to go to church now. ttyl. God bless and keep you

 

[Avinu]

wow some very interesting posts

i also think this deserves a mention

9These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and perfect in his generations, and Noah walked with God.

so as for me i im going with the angel theroy as it is what the hebrew says acording to Avinu who is hebrew

and it is also what the septuigent says so there is not realy any way to argue that it is not angels

it what the text says it is

the angel theroy could also have some interesting implications in terms of this verse

Finally someone who actually pays attention to the original texts, instead of insisting on what they want to believe. Good job Nath, YHVH bless you.

 

[AnandaHya]

Finally someone who actually pays attention to the original texts, instead of insisting on what they want to believe. Good job Nath, YHVH bless you.

yes Avinu we should all look out for those genetically engineered angel human crossbreds that the AntiChrist is making right now.

 

[CBM82]

that isn't very logical.

Human's have spirits too. otherwise these verses would make no sense...

Romans 8:16
The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,

and there are many more.

Have to go to church now. ttyl. God bless and keep you

Look at all 385 times this word is mentioned in the bible and how it is more commonly used. Thats why it is not illogical to think its talking about angels. Especially since it refers to the time of Noah when the angels mated with human women

 

[AnandaHya]

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

Heb 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

just read the verses you quote. it tells you they are "spirits of just MEN"

why would angels need to be saved from the water? don't they fly and are in Heaven?

that is why its illogically. Spirits do not always refer to angels or demons. sometimes they refer to men.

 

[CBM82]

that is why its illogically. Spirits do not always refer to angels or demons. sometimes they refer to men.

I know they can refer to men, I've already admitted that in the post above, but only 1 in 385 times does it refer to dead men. Thats why its not illogical to think it was probably angels when you take jude into account about the angels being in "chains", and in 1peter they are in "prison".

 

[CBM82]

Gen 6:9 These are the generations of Noah: Noah was a just man and PERFECT in his GENERATIONS, and Noah walked with God.

Perfect
H8549
תּמים
tâmı̂ym
taw-meem'
From H8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth: - without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.

Generations
H1755
דּר דּור
dôr dôr
dore, dore
From H1752; properly a revolution of time, that is, an age or generation; also a dwelling: - age, X evermore, generation, [n-]ever, posterity.

Noah and his family were the only ones that hadn't intermixed with the angels apparently

Appendix #26
26. NOAH "PERFECT".
(Gen_6:9).



The Heb. word tamim means without blemish, and is the technical word for bodily and physical perfection, and not moral. Hence it is used of animals of sacrificial purity. It is rendered without blemish in Exo_12:5; Exo_29:1. Lev_1:3; Lev_1:10; Lev_3:1; Lev_3:6; Lev_4:3; Lev_4:23; Lev_4:28; Lev_4:32; Lev_5:15; Lev_5:18; Lev_6:6; Lev_9:2-3; Lev_14:10; Lev_22:19; Lev_23:12; Lev_23:18. Num_6:14; Num_28:19; Num_28:31; Num_29:2; Num_29:8; Num_29:13; Num_29:20; Num_29:23; Num_29:29; Num_29:32; Num_29:36. Eze_43:22-23; Eze_43:25; Eze_45:18; Eze_45:23; Eze_46:4; Eze_46:6; Eze_46:13.
Without Spot. Num_19:2; Num_28:3; Num_28:9; Num_28:11; Num_29:17; Num_29:26.
Undefiled. Psa_119:1.
This shows that Gen_6:9 does not speak of Noah's moral perfection, but tells us that he and his family alone had preserved their pedigree and kept it pure, in spite of the prevailing corruption brought about by the fallen angels. See Ap. 23 and 25.

 

[Avinu]

yes Avinu we should all look out for those genetically engineered angel human crossbreds that the AntiChrist is making right now.
__________________

AnandaHya, bless your heart, that is funny, I needed a good laugh.(sincerely) I like how that just rolls together, YHVH bless you sis.

 

[Grandpa]

The term sons of God should not apply to fallen angels, should it? Isn't there certain qualifications to be a son of God? I would think a fallen angel would be called something else.

I used to think they were angels too. But not anymore.

 

[AnandaHya]

AnandaHya, bless your heart, that is funny, I needed a good laugh.(sincerely) I like how that just rolls together, YHVH bless you sis.

love you too Avinu

. just wanted to see if you noticed the next "logical" just "by the text" reasoning

the angel theroy could also have some interesting implications in terms of this verse

Matthew 24:37
But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

considering the genetic engineering front and how they are right now in the process of developing geneticaly enhanced solidgers for the american army and working on designer babys
this could be used to hide what satan entends to do

Nath