"The Synoptic Problem"?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#21
Has anyone here ever attempted to study the synoptic Gospels (or even all 4) side by side? If so, do you have any advice, recommendations, or insights on this?
1. First of all there is NO Synoptic Problem. It is an invention of rationalistic and unbelieving scholars.

2. Each and everyone of the Evangelists (Gospel writers) wrote by Divine inspiration -- words given to them directly by God the Holy Spirit. Therefore they did not have to borrow from each other, and the evidence is in the Gospels themselves. Each one is a unique production, and does not reproduce exactly what the others wrote.

3. I have studied the Synoptic Gospels side by side, and they simply complement and complete each other. The Gospel of John is unique.

4. Every Christian can harmonize the Synoptics with a little bit of effort. They never contradict each other, since God is the ultimate Author.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#22
4 gospels
4 different perspectives
4 different authors

ALL inspired and equally the word of God in truth...........
 
Jul 23, 2017
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#23
1. First of all there is NO Synoptic Problem. It is an invention of rationalistic and unbelieving scholars.

2. Each and everyone of the Evangelists (Gospel writers) wrote by Divine inspiration -- words given to them directly by God the Holy Spirit. Therefore they did not have to borrow from each other, and the evidence is in the Gospels themselves. Each one is a unique production, and does not reproduce exactly what the others wrote.

3. I have studied the Synoptic Gospels side by side, and they simply complement and complete each other. The Gospel of John is unique.

4. Every Christian can harmonize the Synoptics with a little bit of effort. They never contradict each other, since God is the ultimate Author.
yes nehemiah brother. i agree
yet again u say what i wanted to say but with more politeness and expertise
 
Feb 7, 2015
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#24
do u believe the scriptures are inerrant? or just a game of telephone and people said different stories that they happened to remember?
why should we obey anything anymore since theres always a chance someone just remembered it wrong or misspoke...
If the story is being told that someone came to town, and one person remembers a red car, another remembers a grey car, and a third remember a green car, is the point that someone arrived in town in question?

Look at all the stuff we swear John wrote down as he was in the spirit one afternoon. It takes us that long to even read the letter. You know it took him months to write by hand with ink and quill on parchment, even if he didn't have to slowly and carefully dictate it to someone?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
12,937
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#25
yes nehemiah brother. i agree
yet again u say what i wanted to say but with more politeness and expertise
Thank you brother, and I do appreciate your input and your stand for the truth.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,451
12,937
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#26
4 gospels
4 different perspectives
4 different authors

ALL inspired and equally the word of God in truth...........
Absolutely. As to the perspectives:

Matthew presents Christ the King of Israel

Mark presents Christ the Servant of the Father

Luke presents Christ the Son of Man

John presents Christ the Son of God
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#27
Just an update from my earlier post.

Regarding what is called the synoptic problem, its only a problem in the sense of source. It is not a problem as in the text has a problem. Mark most certainly would have got a lot of information from Peter (1 Peter 5:13) and possibly from Paul.

And in fact Luke done some very careful research for writing his material: Luke 1:1-4


Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile a narrative of the things that have been accomplished among us,2 just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word have delivered them to us,3 it seemed good to me also, having followed all things closely for some time past, to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus,4 that you may have certainty concerning the things you have been taught.


So the writers did in fact use sources, there is nothing wrong in that as the sources where from either an eyewitness account themselves or from the eyewitness of the Apostles as can be clearly seen in Luke above. And Luke also tells us many have undertaken to write narratives regarding these things. However, we have what God wants us to have.

In a world where atheists and non believers know these sort of things don't be ignorant of the facts.

Yes the writers used sources but all this was inspired - all inspired by the hand of God. And every thing that is written is 100% trustworthy.
 

JairCrawford

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2017
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0
#28
1. First of all there is NO Synoptic Problem. It is an invention of rationalistic and unbelieving scholars.

2. Each and everyone of the Evangelists (Gospel writers) wrote by Divine inspiration -- words given to them directly by God the Holy Spirit. Therefore they did not have to borrow from each other, and the evidence is in the Gospels themselves. Each one is a unique production, and does not reproduce exactly what the others wrote.

3. I have studied the Synoptic Gospels side by side, and they simply complement and complete each other. The Gospel of John is unique.

4. Every Christian can harmonize the Synoptics with a little bit of effort. They never contradict each other, since God is the ultimate Author.
1. I put it in quotes to address the secularist bias of the scholars, as you mention here. It's not so much a problem for us as it is for them, because they tend to be skeptical of anything supernatural.

2. I do believe that all four Gospels were inspired by the Holy Spirit, God Breathed, and therefore the words an acts of Jesus (although sometimes in different orders) can all be trusted as accurate. However, I see no problem with Matthew or Luke quoting from Mark, as that would simply be two writers who are divinely inspired quoting from another writer who is also divinely inspired. No theological problems with that that I can see.

3 and 4. This is what I'd like to do as well.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
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#29
In seminary, we had to read the four gospels in a comparative form. So, it went through verse by verse, and side by side with the other occurrances of the same teaching or incident. Even John, which is not a synoptic, and probably written later, has many parallel accounts.

Reading that version of the Bible, really helped confirmed the truth of the gospels for me. There really aren't any "contradictions" but rather, as others have said, different viewpoints, and different emphasis.

I highly recommend you get that book, and read the gospels, which is just the Bible, but ordered side by side, instead of book after book. Go to the source, instead of asking questions. Then, when you have done that, if you still have questions, this thread might be something you would want to start!
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#30
Okaaaaay... Luke and Matthew aren't as close to God and had to copy off of Mark to get the job done.
Sure.

2 Timothy 3:16

English Standard Version
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
I choose to believe the Bible, something about letting God being true and every man a LIAR.

 

JairCrawford

Senior Member
Oct 31, 2017
107
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#31
Okaaaaay... Luke and Matthew aren't as close to God and had to copy off of Mark to get the job done.
Sure.

2 Timothy 3:16

English Standard Version
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
I choose to believe the Bible, something about letting God being true and every man a LIAR.

I don't think anybody here is saying that. Matthew and Luke are not any "less close" to God than Mark. Whether they used his Gospel as a source or not.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#32
Absolutely. As to the perspectives:

Matthew presents Christ the King of Israel

Mark presents Christ the Servant of the Father

Luke presents Christ the Son of Man

John presents Christ the Son of God
Thanks....exactly what I meant.....
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
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adelaiderevival.com
#33
That being said, I do think there is some evidence that the writers of Matthew and Luke had access to the Gospel of Mark. (This is not necessarily a bad thing.)
Has anyone here ever attempted to study the synoptic Gospels (or even all 4) side by side? If so, do you have any advice, recommendations, or insights on this?
What so-called modern scholarship fails completely to understand is that
all four gospels have the same author Jesus > Holy Spirit > Apostles > parchment
God is the author of his Word and all scripture is inspired by him for our
teaching and guidance unto obedience.

Matthew = Jesus the Christ as King and the promised Jewish Messiah
Mark = Jesus as Servant; faithful and obedient in all his actions
Luke = Jesus as Human and part of the real world of Roman Judea
John = Jesus is God and will also indwell believers by the Holy Spirit
 
Jul 23, 2017
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#34
Okaaaaay... Luke and Matthew aren't as close to God and had to copy off of Mark to get the job done.
Sure.

2 Timothy 3:16

English Standard Version
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness,
I choose to believe the Bible, something about letting God being true and every man a LIAR.

yeah. this is what it is. its not like we would jst write down what happens in a newspaper fashion. thats not how the scriptures are supposed to operate
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
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#35
If somebody wants to study how were the Scriptures inspired, synoptic gospels is quite a good starting point.

Its very obvious that all inspired authors differ on what Jesus actually said and quite freely change His words (even though not the basic message). Similar to events.

For example there was a thread about Lord's prayer and some people wrote they are praying it (me including), because we were following the Luke version:
"When you pray, say:"

And some people wrote they consider it to be just an example to follow and based it on the Mark version:
"Pray then like this:"
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,897
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#36
Depends on what you mean by bad.

I think its a serious problem when we want to know what Jesus really said and synoptics differ from each other. Even some different teachings can be based of various variants like in "Our Father" prayer.
Given the fact that Jesus earthly ministry is supposed to have lasted about three years, there is an extraordinarily high chance that He repeated Himself often, saying the same thing in different ways at various times, which could very easily explain some of the synoptic differences.
 

KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#37
If the story is being told that someone came to town, and one person remembers a red car, another remembers a grey car, and a third remember a green car, is the point that someone arrived in town in question?
PLEASE don't take this as ANY kind of criticism...its just a humorous answer.

I think the answer to the particular problem you presented could be found with proper diagnosis of "red/green color-blindness". :d
 
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KelbyofGod

Senior Member
Oct 8, 2017
1,881
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#38
BTW, I appreciate that this thread honestly feels like a discussion rather than an argument. :)

Love in Jesus,
Kelby
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#39
The Gospels were written in such a way as to supplement/replace the weekly readings of the Torah and those used during the Festivals throughout the Jewish year after Christians were no longer welcome in the Synagogues. The events and teachings of Jesus' ministry were arranged so that they follow the subject matter read in the Synagogues for each Sabbath and Festival.

Marks Gospel is the earliest and shortest. It is Shorter than Matthew's and Luke's because it only covers the Festivals of
Rosh Hashanah ( the Feast of Trumpets), Yom Kippur (Atonement) Sukkot (Tabernacles) and Passover. The Sabbath readings begin near Rosh Hashanah which is the start of the Jewish Year. A section of the Torah is read so as to stretch the readings for 54 Sabbaths.

Matthew extended Marks gospel to cover the part of the year not covered by him. After writing about the birth of Jesus he
follows the Torah readings that deal with the parting of the Reed Sea and the Baptism of Jesus followed by his temptation in the wilderness The Sermon on the Mount corresponds with the Festival of Pentecost which celebrates Moses giving the law to Israel. He then follows Marks sequence but adds a number of teachings and events that correspond to the Torah readings.

Luke's Gospel is based on Mark and Matthews but his is not so tightly bound to the Jewish calendar and synagogue customs. Its believed that this is because he wrote for Gentile believers who were not as familiar with them.

These three Gospels are known as Synoptic which roughly means 'seeing together'

Johns Gospel is not seen as being part of the Synoptic group. It is very different in style and content which includes teaching and events not found in the other three. Although it does include events connected to the Festivals .

There are books that place all four Gospels side by side. They can also be found in some study Bibles.

I expect to get a lot of negative response to this posting. So I will state my position on this now. I believe the Gospels were written with the guidance of the Holy Spirit,but not dropped from Heaven fully written in King James English. You only need to read the start of Luke's gospel to realize this.

Jesus is the word of God. He is the living word and its true embodiment. His mission was to fulfill the Torah
which he did in word and deed.
 
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Hizikyah

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#40
Scholars often talk of the "synoptic problem" when studying the synoptic Gospels. I understand the basics of what they are saying, but the majority of their studies reek of a heavily secularist bias, so I am a bit skeptical of their conclusions.

That being said, I do think there is some evidence that the writers of Matthew and Luke had access to the Gospel of Mark. (This is not necessarily a bad thing.)

Has anyone here ever attempted to study the synoptic Gospels (or even all 4) side by side? If so, do you have any advice, recommendations, or insights on this?
Matthews gospel was originally written in Greek;

The Ebionites were a Christian sect that claimed to preserve the original autograph of apostle Matthew in Hebrew. It is quoted often by Epiphanius in the 300s. He said its official title was “The Gospel according to Matthew.” (Epiphanius, Panarion 30, 13, 2-3.)

Apostle John told Papias around 90 A.D. about this book of Matthew: “Matthew put together the oracles [of the Lord] in the Hebrew language, and each one interpreted them as best he could.” (Eusebius, Hist. Eccl. iii. 39, quoting Exposition of the Oracles of the Lord)

Irenaeus likewise says: “Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, Book III, Chapter I, quoted in Eusebius,
Ecclesiastical History, Book V, Chapter VIII.)

Jerome around 404 A.D. wrote of this too: “The Hebrew [Matthew] itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered.” (Jerome, Lives of Illustrious Men, Chapter III.)

“Matthew collected the oracles (ta logia) in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could.” – Papias (Eusebius, H.E. 3.39.16)

“As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language.” – Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)

Jerome appears convinced the Hebrew Matthew to which the Nazarenes gave him access was the true autograph of Matthew. Jerome notes how it was protected in a private library at Caesarea. He writes in On Illustrious Men ch. III (404 A.D.): “Matthew, also called Levi, apostle and aforetimes publican, composed a gospel of Christ at first published in Judea in Hebrew for the sake of those of the circumcision who believed, but this was afterwards translated into Greek though by what author is uncertain. The Hebrew itself has been preserved until the present day in the library at Caesarea which Pamphilus so diligently gathered. I have also had the opportunity of having the volume described to me by the Nazarenes of Beroea, a city of Syria, who use it.”

Copies of the Hebrew version remain. There are 2 good books with this translation noted, the translation by George Lamsa I would not reccomend, it is not terrible but it is not true to the manuscript; as he "corrected" the Hebrew veersion by what the greek said in a number of places, but as history shows it was originally written in Hebrew translated into greek. I would reccomend "The Chronological Gospels; The Life and 70 weekk Ministry of Messiah.

Here is a single example of the textual difference (I know of 4 others, the geneology is correct in Mat 1, the one is left one is taken in Mat 24, do not make oath, and incident with Mary off the top of my head that are key readings) Oh also, when He is resurrected in the Greek version He says;

New International Version
Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

In Hebrew vversion He says
Mat 28:9, "And as they were going to report to His taught ones, see, יהושע met them saying, “יהוה has saved you!” And they came and held Him by the feet and did bow to Him."


New International Version - Mat 23:2-3, "The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach."

King James Bible - Mat 23:2-3, "Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not."

Hebrew Mattithyah - Mat 23:2-3, "The Pharisees and Sages sit upon the seat of Mosheh. Therefore, all that he (Mosheh) says to you, diligently do, but according to their takanot (reforms) and thier ma'asim (precedents) do not do, because they talk (Torah) but they do not do."

Takanot: rabbinical reforms or enactments that falsely change or add to YHWH's Law.

Ma'asim: acts or deeds that serve as precedents for rabbinic law.

Both Takanot and Ma'asim are laws of the Talmud