The Trinity Discussion

trofimus · Aug 14, 2017

The Holy Spirit is a person:

"When the Advocate comes, whom I will send to you from the Father--the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father--he will testify about me."
(J 15:26)

"All these are empowered by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills."
(1 Cor 12:11)

Dagallen · Aug 14, 2017

trofimus said:

He sends the Spirit of truth, who is this Spirit of truth, does this Spirit of truth have a name ?

trofimus · Aug 14, 2017

Dagallen said:

His "name" is the Holy Spirit.

"Go therefore andkmake disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit"
Mt 28:19

You ask like you never read the Bible

mailmandan · Aug 14, 2017

trofimus said:

Amen brother! Keep up the good work!

bluto · Aug 14, 2017

Dagallen said:

Really dagallen? The Holy Spirit has all the attributes of personality and here is what Romans 8:11 says, "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you. HE who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies throught His Spirit who indwells you." The following is more on the person of the Holy Spirit.

The answer is that the Bible presents a person as a substance that can do personal and relational things (such as speaking, thinking, feeling, acting). Something that does these personal things in relationship—like God, angels, and human beings—is a person.
How does the Holy Spirit fare up under this criteria?
1. The Spirit teaches and reminds.

John 14:26, “the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
1 Corinthians 2:13, “We impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
2. The Spirit speaks.
Acts 8:29, “the Spirit said to Philip, ‘Go over and join this chariot.’
Acts 13:2, “While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, ‘Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.'”
3. The Spirit makes decisions.

Acts 15:28, “it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements.”
3. The Spirit can be grieved.

Ephesians 4:30, “do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
4. The Spirit can be outraged.

Hebrews 10:29, “How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has . . . outraged the Spirit of grace?”
5. The Spirit can be lied to.
Acts 5:3, 4, “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? . . . You have not lied to men but to God‘”
6. The Spirit can forbid or prevent human speech and plans.

Acts 16:6-7, “they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia. And when they had come up to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them.”
7. The Spirit searches everything and comprehends God’s thoughts.

1 Corinthians 2:10-11, “the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. . . . no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”
8. The Spirit apportions spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:11, “the same Spirit . . . apportions [spiritual gifts] to each one individually as he wills.”
9. The Spirit helps us, intercedes for us, and has a mind.

Romans 8:26-27, “the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”
10. The Spirit bears witness to believers about their adoption

Romans 8:16, “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.”
11. The Spirit bears witness to Christ.

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
12. The Spirit glorifies Christ, takes what is Christ, and declares it to believers.

John 16:14, “He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

jaybird88 · Aug 14, 2017

trofimus said:

2316. theos

NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
of uncertain origin
Definition
God, a god
NASB Translation
divinely (1), God (1267), god (6), God's (27), God-fearing (1), godly (2), godly* (1), gods (8), Lord (1).

jaybird88 · Aug 14, 2017

bluto said:

this says the spirit is of "Him" (notice it does not say of "them") that does not sound like a stand alone person to me.

Dagallen · Aug 14, 2017

bluto said:

Really dagallen? The Holy Spirit has all the attributes of personality and here is what Romans 8:11 says, "But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you. HE who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies throught His Spirit who indwells you." The following is more on the person of the Holy Spirit.

The answer is that the Bible presents a person as a substance that can do personal and relational things (such as speaking, thinking, feeling, acting). Something that does these personal things in relationship—like God, angels, and human beings—is a person.
How does the Holy Spirit fare up under this criteria?
1. The Spirit teaches and reminds.

John 14:26, “the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.
1 Corinthians 2:13, “We impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
2. The Spirit speaks.
Acts 8:29, “the Spirit said to Philip, ‘Go over and join this chariot.’
Acts 13:2, “While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, ‘Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.'”
3. The Spirit makes decisions.

Acts 15:28, “it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these requirements.”
3. The Spirit can be grieved.

Ephesians 4:30, “do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
4. The Spirit can be outraged.

Hebrews 10:29, “How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has . . . outraged the Spirit of grace?”
5. The Spirit can be lied to.
Acts 5:3, 4, “why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit? . . . You have not lied to men but to God‘”
6. The Spirit can forbid or prevent human speech and plans.

Acts 16:6-7, “they went through the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been forbidden by the Holy Spirit to speak the word in Asia. And when they had come up to Mysia, they attempted to go into Bithynia, but the Spirit of Jesus did not allow them.”
7. The Spirit searches everything and comprehends God’s thoughts.

1 Corinthians 2:10-11, “the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God. . . . no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.”
8. The Spirit apportions spiritual gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:11, “the same Spirit . . . apportions [spiritual gifts] to each one individually as he wills.”
9. The Spirit helps us, intercedes for us, and has a mind.

Romans 8:26-27, “the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.”
10. The Spirit bears witness to believers about their adoption

Romans 8:16, “The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.”
11. The Spirit bears witness to Christ.

“But when the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will bear witness about me.
12. The Spirit glorifies Christ, takes what is Christ, and declares it to believers.

John 16:14, “He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

The Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead, who is the Him ? His Father, therefore the Holy Spirit of the Father raised Jesus from the dead.

bluto · Aug 14, 2017

jaybird88 said:

Come on jaybird, think? It doesn't have to say "of them" because # one that would be an argmuent from silence. Do you know what that means jaybird? It means no one can present proof of a negative assertion such as the assertion your making now. Only positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof. In other words, where the concusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence.

But jaybird, don't despair because I can still prove from the Bible the persons of the Trinity are "them" And I don't mean the old movie "Them" staring James Arness about giant ants invading their little desert city. :rolleys: First let's look at John 2:19, where Jesus Christ Himself says, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I WILL RAISE IT UP." At John 2:21 the Apostle John says, "But He was speaking of the temple of His body." This is one person of the Trinity.

Now look at Acts 2:24 which says, "And God rasied Him up again putting an end to the agony of death etc." Or 1 Corinthians 6:14, "Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power." What about the Holy Spirit? Well I just gave you Romans 8:11, then there is Romans 1:3,4, "concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of DAVID ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, vs4, who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS, Jesus Christ our Lord."

So you see jaybird, Jesus rasied Himself, God His Father rasied Him up and the Holy Spirit raised Him up. There's your "they?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Dagallen · Aug 14, 2017

Jesus died, there is no they that gave Jesus life again.

jaybird88 · Aug 14, 2017

bluto said:

Come on jaybird, think? It doesn't have to say "of them" because # one that would be an argmuent from silence. Do you know what that means jaybird? It means no one can present proof of a negative assertion such as the assertion your making now. Only positive assertions can even possibly be proven and as such only positive assertions bear any burden of proof. In other words, where the concusion is based on the absence of evidence, rather than the existence of evidence.

But jaybird, don't despair because I can still prove from the Bible the persons of the Trinity are "them" And I don't mean the old movie "Them" staring James Arness about giant ants invading their little desert city. :rolleys: First let's look at John 2:19, where Jesus Christ Himself says, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I WILL RAISE IT UP." At John 2:21 the Apostle John says, "But He was speaking of the temple of His body." This is one person of the Trinity.

Now look at Acts 2:24 which says, "And God rasied Him up again putting an end to the agony of death etc." Or 1 Corinthians 6:14, "Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power." What about the Holy Spirit? Well I just gave you Romans 8:11, then there is Romans 1:3,4, "concerning His Son, who was born of a descendant of DAVID ACCORDING TO THE FLESH, vs4, who was declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead, ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT OF HOLINESS, Jesus Christ our Lord."

So you see jaybird, Jesus rasied Himself, God His Father rasied Him up and the Holy Spirit raised Him up. There's your "they?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Jesus raised Himself?? wow . . . . .

bluto · Aug 14, 2017

Dagallen said:

"You still cannot answer this? For crying out loud dagallen, you still cannot reconcile the scriptures that I quoted that declare Jesus Christ to be God Almighty (Revelation1:8) with your contention where Jesus says only the Father is the only true God. So what do you? You ask another question to avoid addressing previous questions that you know you can't answer.

In fact, your doing the same exact thing in this post. At John 5:18 Jesus is accused by the Jews of being equal with God. At John 8:57 the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy because Jesus stated clearly that He existed before Abraham. At John 10:33 the Jews want to stone and kill Jesus again for blasphemy because Jesus Christ made Himself out to be God.

Then at John 19:7 the Jews said to Jesus that "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the SON OF GOD." So I'm going to ask you the same question on this issue as on the other issue? How do you reconcile Jesus making Himself out God to Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? So in your mind please tell me what the difference is between Jesus making Himself out God and Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? In short, how do you reconcile these two "seeminly" contradictory statements?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Dagallen · Aug 14, 2017

jaybird88 said:

Its a loaded question, as it is a two part question, therefore there two answers, as both answers are correct.

bluto · Aug 14, 2017

jaybird88 said:

Well tell me jaybird? Is it true or false that Jesus Christ specifically said that He would raise Himself in three days at John 2:19? And is it true or false that the Apostle John stated that Jesus said He would raise Himself at John 2:21?" "But He/Jesus was speaking of the temple of His body."

In fact jaybird, the following is a part of the trial record, i.e the notes at Matthew 26:59-61. "NOw the chief priests and the whole Council kept trying to obtain false testimony against Jesus, in order that they might put Him to death. vs60, and they did not find any, even though many false witnesses came forward. But later on two came forward, vs61, (now watch this jaybird), and said, "This man stated, I am able to destroy this temple of God and to rebuild it in three days."

What this means jaybird is that even Jesus' enemies (although they did not understand that Jesus was talking about raising the temple of His body) they still understood that Jesus Himself would rebuild the temple. So why is it so hard for you to understand not only the words of Jesus but the words of the Apostle John who was correctly giving his commentary under the influence/inspiration of the Holy Spirit at John 2:21? And your right, this is a "WOW" moment.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Dagallen · Aug 14, 2017

A two part question, when Jesus died, did Jesus give life to himself again ? The correct would be no ! Once Jesus was given life again, did Jesus raise ( lift his body up and walk again ? The correct would be yes !

bluto · Aug 14, 2017

Dagallen said:

"You still cannot answer this? For crying out loud dagallen, you still cannot reconcile the scriptures that I quoted that declare Jesus Christ to be God Almighty (Revelation1:8) with your contention where Jesus says only the Father is the only true God. So what do you? You ask another question to avoid addressing previous questions that you know you can't answer.

In fact, your doing the same exact thing in this post. At John 5:18 Jesus is accused by the Jews of being equal with God. At John 8:57 the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy because Jesus stated clearly that He existed before Abraham. At John 10:33 the Jews want to stone and kill Jesus again for blasphemy because Jesus Christ made Himself out to be God.

Then at John 19:7 the Jews said to Jesus that "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the SON OF GOD." So I'm going to ask you the same question on this issue as on the other issue? How do you reconcile Jesus making Himself out God to Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? So in your mind please tell me what the difference is between Jesus making Himself out God and Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? In short, how do you reconcile these two "seemingly" contradictory statements?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Dagallen · Aug 14, 2017

bluto said:

"You still cannot answer this? For crying out loud dagallen, you still cannot reconcile the scriptures that I quoted that declare Jesus Christ to be God Almighty (Revelation1:8) with your contention where Jesus says only the Father is the only true God. So what do you? You ask another question to avoid addressing previous questions that you know you can't answer.

In fact, your doing the same exact thing in this post. At John 5:18 Jesus is accused by the Jews of being equal with God. At John 8:57 the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy because Jesus stated clearly that He existed before Abraham. At John 10:33 the Jews want to stone and kill Jesus again for blasphemy because Jesus Christ made Himself out to be God.

Then at John 19:7 the Jews said to Jesus that "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the SON OF GOD." So I'm going to ask you the same question on this issue as on the other issue? How do you reconcile Jesus making Himself out God to Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? So in your mind please tell me what the difference is between Jesus making Himself out God and Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? In short, how do you reconcile these two "seemingly" contradictory statements?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

And you still don't know what a proverb is or the intent of using a proverb, so giving you an answer would be a waste of time.

Dagallen · Aug 14, 2017

bluto said:

"You still cannot answer this? For crying out loud dagallen, you still cannot reconcile the scriptures that I quoted that declare Jesus Christ to be God Almighty (Revelation1:8) with your contention where Jesus says only the Father is the only true God. So what do you? You ask another question to avoid addressing previous questions that you know you can't answer.

In fact, your doing the same exact thing in this post. At John 5:18 Jesus is accused by the Jews of being equal with God. At John 8:57 the Jews accuse Jesus of blasphemy because Jesus stated clearly that He existed before Abraham. At John 10:33 the Jews want to stone and kill Jesus again for blasphemy because Jesus Christ made Himself out to be God.

Then at John 19:7 the Jews said to Jesus that "We have a law, and by that law He ought to die because He made Himself out to be the SON OF GOD." So I'm going to ask you the same question on this issue as on the other issue? How do you reconcile Jesus making Himself out God to Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? So in your mind please tell me what the difference is between Jesus making Himself out God and Jesus making Himself out the Son of God? In short, how do you reconcile these two "seemingly" contradictory statements?"

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Figuratively speaking, Metaphorically speaking, literally speaking, how many of the three are different or are any of them the same ?

trofimus · Aug 15, 2017

jaybird88 said:

You must use ancient Greek dictionary, not a concordance to some specific Bible translation.

Please, look up what a concordance is.

trofimus · Aug 15, 2017

Dagallen said:

You can google these basic things very easily. So the purpose of your "questions" is to dodge the fact that your ideas are not biblical.

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