The Trinity

[TruthFromFrank]

Excellent point and makes sense to me, the body had to be left dead for three days as proof of the death otherwise the new covenant could not have taken effect Hebrews 9:15-17, and yes about the Spirit of God could not die and as well Jesus said to the thief that believed him he said today you will be in paradise with me, so this is proof to me of what you said here. and Jesus to me was born a life-giving Spirit being born of the Virgin

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Don't get me wrong. I fully believe in the resurrection. I do not, however, believe it was God who was resurrected but the Body. Jehovah, being everlasting, would not have died.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

When a person's spirit leaves their body, the body dies. When the spirit returns, the life returns with it.

Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Luk 8:49 While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's house, saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master.
Luk 8:50 But when Jesus heard it, he answered him, saying, Fear not: believe only, and she shall be made whole.
Luk 8:51 And when he came into the house, he suffered no man to go in, save Peter, and James, and John, and the father and the mother of the maiden.
Luk 8:52 And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
Luk 8:53 And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead.
Luk 8:54 And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise.
Luk 8:55 And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat.
Luk 8:56 And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

The spirit of the person does not die, in that it ceases to exist. The same holds true with the Spirit of Jehovah Jesus God. He Himself, that is His spirit man, went to the heart of the earth while His body remained in the tomb for three days and nights. At the end of the three days and nights, His spirit, He Himself, returned back into the body that died, and the body that was dead was given life because life himself returned. Then He went to the Father in Heaven.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

I have a couple general bible questions about the Trinity.

Does God, Jesus and the Holy Ghost appear to any ONE profit within the bible simultaneously?
If so, how many times OR can I get an example of just one time, please?

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

There are many examples in the OT beginning in Genesis.

Abraham is greeted by 'three men' who are later referred to as a singular 'Lord', and Yahweh.

Ezekiel witnessed the Trinity, Moses....etc, etc...

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

You can't separate the Trinity, when one of the 'members' show up, hello?, all are present

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

I'd have to say that is quite a mystery isn't it. Why is it that when One is present all tree are present? I know Jesus is God the Son, not God the Father or the Holy Spirit. When Jesus was baptized we have God the Son, then God the Father speaks and the Holy Spirit comes down.

It is just such a great mystery. When I pray to God the Father then why most I pray trough God the son, and why ask the Holy Spirit for wisdom.

I stil have much to grow, one day I will know why I just hope I get to spend the rest of the eternal life with them.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Why indeed....
Why also does Jesus pray to God, not only in public but also in private if he is indeed, God in the flesh? Why too would he have prayed to God asking him "why have you forsaken me" while on the cross if he was in fact God. If he were God in the flesh surely he would have known he was God. Instead the scriptures teach us that God instructed Jesus and gave him truth, knowledge and power as tools to bring his message to us and guide us.

I do not wish to ruffle feathers but it would seem logical to me that although Jesus is a member of the Godhead, he could not be God fully.

As you can see I have a very difficult time with the Trinity idea and although it is true that faith does not require logic, we are an intelligent species which, to some degree requires logic to make sense of things. This does include faith.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Water is also known as H2O.

H2O can be a solid [ice]
H2O can be a liquid
H2O can be mist or vapor

At the core of any of this stages it is still the same substance H2O

God the Father
God the Son
God the Holy Spirit

At the core of any of them is God

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

It is true, Truthseeker77, that you are not here to seek truth yourself, but rather to enlighten us as to Jehova's Witness doctrine, doctrine which you will not renounce in the face of all the wisdom that has been presented to you in former posts. In that sense your very screen name is a deception.
As has been stated already, in Genesis 18 Abraham saw three men and worshipped one. At Jesus' baptism, The Holy Spirit appears and the Father speaks. Answering your questions directly does not serve to enlighten you.
The bible states plainly in John 1 and Hebrews 1 that Jesus Christ is God. The Watchtower Society (Jehovas Witnesses) has done some very shoddy scholarship into Greek to attempt to explain that away.

The unspeakable name that God gave Himself, JHVH, is always translated (hundreds of times) "Kurios" in the Septuagint LXX (in English "The Lord"). Jesus quoted the Septuagint LXX texts in the gospels. "Kurios" is a title attributed to Lord Jesus both by Jehovahs Witnesses (Watchtower) and by the born-again world. Jesus is JHVH. That is lost on Watchtower, who attribute to "Kurios" a meaning that would rarely be used in reference to a peasant carpenter and do not link "Kurios" to JHVH. As stated before, the words "Kurios" and "JHVH" are linked hundreds of times in the LXX texts quoted by Jesus Himself.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Hi Truthseeker

Excellent question, here are answers straight from the bible. As you can see they have confirmed your understanding of the trinity. God is the almighty, Jesus is Gods son and the holy spirit is Gods active force. Please let me know if you agree with this logic.

John 14:28,: “[Jesus said:] If you loved me, you would have rejoiced, because I go to the Father; for the Father is greater than I.”

Matt. 26:39, : “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)

Mark 13:32,: “Of that day or that hour no ones knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” (Of course, that would not be the case if Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were coequal, comprising one Godhead. And if, as some suggest, the Son was limited by his human nature from knowing, the question remains, Why did the Holy Spirit not know?)

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

If they are ONE, how can the Son judge WITHOUT the Father and the Holy Ghost?

John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:


If they are ONE, how is it that ONLY the Father knows the time and the hour of Jesus return?

Matt.24
[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Mark 13
[32] But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.


There is only one place from which we are to receive ALL of our doctine; God's holy word.


And there is ONLY one place in ALL of God's word that tells us just how The Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit are all one! And it comes from the mouth of Jesus Himself!


.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Why so many threads on the Trinity? It's okay to join existing threads and continue discussion there. Also, it's 'prophets', not 'profits'. The former is related to hearing from God, the latter is related to how much money you make doing something.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

The only place in scripture one sees the presence of all three memers of the truadic unity in the same theophany is in Luke 3:22, "and the Holy Spirit descended upon Him in bodily form like a dove, and a voice came out of heaven, “You are My beloved Son, in You I am well-pleased.” One other place in scripture we do find two members represented is in Gen.19:24 which says, "Then Jehovah rained on Sodom and Gomorrah brimstone and fire from Jehovah out of heaven."

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Yes and no.

We have to remember that the Father is not the Son is not the Spirit.

When people saw the Son, they saw God.

Jesus also said that if you have seen Him, then you have also seen the Father...not because He is the Father but because the Son and the Father are each the one God.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

Well, first of all the Father and Holy Spirit are not physical and cannot be seen with the human eye.

But yes, they all appeared to John the Baptist.

The Holy Spirit appeared as a Dove, and the Father's voice was heard at the baptism of the Son. (Mt 3:16-17)

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

That is a good analogy. I supposed I asked for logic and you gave it to me. Unfortunately it doesn't satisfy the questions. My questions are not revolutionary or "new" the Christian faith by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, those same questions have been asked for... God only knows how long. If there was a solid answer to satisfy them, they wouldn't be asked any more. Answers to most questions in life can be found within the scriptures. This I believe is true. It is up to man to translate the meaning of the scriptures in a fashion that satisfies his or her particular needs at the time. I don't mean that statement to be naive but if you look at how many different ways any given scripture can be perceived from one person to the next or one particular denomination to the next you will see my point.



First of all I am NOT Jehova's Witness. Second - how dare you accuse me of being deceptive for simply asking for clarification on a topic that is obviously touchy for some. You sir, have lost my attention to any further posts from you concerning this topic. I will not heed any advice given from a hypocrite. Your obvious hatred for the Jehova's Witness serves only to destroy your own worthiness. Love all, judge none. We are all children of God.



Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for. Thank you very much for not being judgmental and answering my question with dignity. This will serve me well.

Thanks to the rest of you for quoting insightful scriptures as well. Have a great weekend!

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

God the Son is a separate person from God the Father, though both are one and the same being.

In the one spirit Godhead, the Father's word and breath are persons, unlike in the physical order.

The Father's word is the person of his Son, and the Father's breath is the person of his Holy Spirit, and all are one and the same being.


The Son came to do the will of the Father (Jn 6:38).

Therefore, the Father instructed him, etc.

And it is the function of the Holy Spirit to guide us.


There are no half Gods in the Godhead.
And there are no half men in the human race.
The Son is fully God and fully man.


The operative word here is "some," and not "full."

We have "some" understanding:

1) in the one being of God, the Father's word and the Father's breath are separate persons from the person of the Father;

2) the separate persons of the one being of the Godhead have separate functions in redemption;

3) the Son is subject to the Father, because the Son is sent in the Father's name;

4) the Spirit is subject to the Father, because the Spirit is sent by the Father in the Son's name.

5) the Spirit is subject to the Son as well as the Father, because the Spirit is sent by the Son as well as the Father.

But we don't have "full" understanding of:

1) how three divine persons can exist in one divine being,

2) how the physical body of the Son could be sired by his spirit Father,

3) how the Son could be both fully God and fully man,

because there is nothing in the natural order which can show us.

But although we don't know the "how", we know enough to make enough sense of the Trinity.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

How is presenting scriptures "cherry-picking"? Are not we commanded to use and to live by ALL of God's words? Are not ALL scriptures provided to determine doctrine and to be used for correction?

2 Tim.3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

By all means...provide those scriptures where your claim is stated! Please provide where God's word tells us that the Father will judge the unrighteous. And that the Holy Spirit will judge the unrighteous.

How can there be scriptures saying what you claim when God's word tells us the following;

John 5
[22] For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Scriptures tells us that the Father will judge NO MAN!

If you provide scriptures that says the Father will judge man, ANY man, then Jesus lied! Did Jesus lie?

Do you know why Jesus tells us the Father will not judge man? Because only Jesus was tempted in all ways just as all of mankind. Thus Christ will be the perfect judge. He know just what man has gone through. He know just how hard it is for man to resist. The Father has NEVER been tempted.


Also...there is only ONE place in all of God's word where it is described just how The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit are all one. How about "cherry-picking" those scriptures and read God's word and provide to the readers what Jesus tells us!

.

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]

 

[TruthFromFrank]

[FONT=&quot]Trinity ??[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The time is now, where people turn their ears from the truth and follow fables.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]2 Tim 4:3-5 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.” Isn’t this just what is happening all over the world in our churches today?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus, the first creation.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Col[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 1: 15[/FONT][FONT=&quot] “[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Who is the image of the invisible God[/FONT][FONT=&quot], the firstborn of every creature.” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Here it refers to Jesus and is proof that Jesus was the first born, even before the creation of earth and mankind which means that He was with God. That is the only place He could be namely with His Father God. As Jesus is God’s son, it can only mean that Jesus Christ is also a God, just like His Father.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Godhead consist of TWO only.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Zech 6:12-13 “And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and shall build the temple of the Lord: Even he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.” Here we can see clearly that God talks about Jesus Christ and that the counsel of peace will consist of two, the term ‘both’ is used, and not ‘us’ or ‘three’ as per the Trinity teaching.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. He also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke, the author of Acts, saw only Jesus, the Son of man, on the right hand side of God. He saw the glory of ‘God’ but not God Himself because God is the only Holy Spirit left behind. If there were a third entity, a separate Holy Spirit, Luke would have mentioned it. Jesus also confirms to us that nobody has seen God face to face but Himself.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus would have mentioned the separate Holy Spirit if there was one.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Joh 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” Jesus confirms that He (Spirit of Truth) and God (Holy Spirit) will come unto them that keep Their word. No mention is made of a third entity ie. the Holy Spirit. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]There is only one God and one Lord Jesus Chist.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.” If there were three Gods, as per the Trinity doctrine, why would Paul confirm here that there’s only One God?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Spirit of Truth receives from Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ receives from God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 16:13-15 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall show it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall show it unto you.” Here we clearly see that the Spirit of Truth will receive his information from Jesus Christ, as Jesus Christ receives His information from God. There is a definite ranking order which places God on top, then Jesus Christ and then the Spirit of Truth. As the Spirit of Truth does not speak that he has not been given from Jesus Christ clearly proves that Jesus Christ dictates what is to be said to the people via the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]We can then accept that Jesus Christ is on earth in spirit form as the Spirit of Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Holy Spirit existed on earth ONLY after Jesus Christ was glorified, after resurrection[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 7:39 “But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.” This text tells us that the Holy Spirit did not exist on earth until Jesus Christ was resurrected and glorified, ie. Jesus received His omnipotence back which means that whilst He is in heaven He is on earth with us as the Holy spirit or the Spirit of Truth. This also gives more meaning to the following text where Jesus Christ says that where two or more are gathered in His name, He will be there. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus BETWEEN those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] Mat 18:20 “For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” Jesus Christ confirms here that He, and nobody else, will be on earth amongst those who gathers in His name.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus will be with those that do the things that He commanded them to do until the end of the world.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mat28:20 “Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world.” Jesus confirms here that He will be with those, who follow His teachings, until the end of the world. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is our mediator to God. Also proves that Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” No mention is made of the Holy Spirit; it is also confirmed here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’. The trinity concept that there are three Gods in heaven is therefore questionable.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus is the believer’s advocate with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Joh 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have and advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]It is fantastic to know that Jesus stands in for us at His Father’s side and that He is the Holy Spirit on this earth right now.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]JESUS AS TOTAL MAN AND NOT A MIX OF GOD AND MAN ON EARTH[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus’ Godly-status in heaven changed to that as SERVANT, in likeness of MAN on earth.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned as He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus confirming His initial status with God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Joh 17:5 “And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.” Here Jesus Christ prays to God confirming His status that He had whilst He was with God.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus became archangel.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Rev 12:7-9 “And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, and prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” Jesus took up lower form namely that of an archangel after laying aside His Godly status. Jesus had to fulfil this duty as, Lucifer who was the Leading angel, had to be cast out of heaven.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus took up the form of man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Phil 2:5-7 “Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men.” Here is proof that Jesus Christ had the form of God, and was basically equal with God, but He gave up His Godly status and took up the lowest form of man, and was made servant. A man born from a normal Jewish woman who was pure of heart. He could have sinned but He had a choice whether He wanted to or not but He knew what the consequences of sinning would lead to.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]John 1:14 “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” In verse 1 we read that the Word was God and verse 14 we read that the Word was made flesh (Man) and dwelt among the people. This confirms that Jesus was God and gave up his Godly status and became man on earth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus lived as man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus got hungry.[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:2 “Being forty days tempted of he devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.” If He was not man He wouldn’t have become hungry.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Luke 4:3,5-7, “And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.” ”And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, showed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine.” Jesus was tempted by Satan to sin. He would not have tempted Jesus if Jesus was still a God but he took the chance as he knew that Jesus was man and could sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus died as man, alone with no link between Him and God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Mark 15:34 “And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, my God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? Jesus cried out to God as He was in a lot of pain on the cross. God was not there for Him in this hour. Jesus died as man, with a lot suffering just before His crucifixion and was then nailed to the cross which was a very excruciating painful procedure. He died a very slow and painful death. . If Jesus was half man and half God, He would not have suffered this agony. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Satan will have some ammunition against God at the final judgement day, if Jesus did not go through this total death of ‘man’. As Satan knows that he is doomed for life and will never experience the good life that he had in heaven, he will use every situation and event to try and get back into heaven. Satan would definitely use the argument that Jesus was not totally man if that was the case. It would therefore also be a bluff to the people on earth if Jesus was half ‘man’ half God. In this case Satan has no hold on God regarding the death of the ‘man’ Jesus Christ. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:30 “And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them.” Verse 42-43 “And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb. And he took it, and did eat before them.” Jesus, after being resurrected, broke bread with His disciples. He also ate fish and honeycomb. This was after His resurrection. A spirit cannot break bread or eat any solid food, therefore Jesus was resurrected as ‘man’. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Jesus went up to heaven , as ‘Man’[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Luke 24:51 “And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.” This happened just after He broke the bread and ate with His disciples. Jesus was therefore taken up as ‘Man’.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke saw that the Godhead consist of TWO. It also confirms that Jesus is a man.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]Acts 7:55-56 “But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up steadfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God. And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.” Luke saw the Son of ‘man’, Jesus, on the right hand side of God. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Jesus was totally MAN and there’s only ONE God.[/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]​

[FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2-5 “For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.” Paul confirms here that Jesus Christ is ‘Man’ and that there is only One God.[/FONT]