The "Trumping" Factor

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I

Is

Guest
#21
As the title suggests, ya, I'm a Trump Fan. Although, in light of his statement last night concerning banning ALL muslims from coming stateside, I have YET to hear ANYONE else ask this question: "How can this country allow ANY "religion", who's seemingly ONLY "credo" is to DESTROY Christians/Jews...EVERYONE, who believes in the God of Abraham, Issac (not ishmael...islam?.....ishmael?....hmmm), and Jacob. I WILL, however change MY vote to the FIRST candidate, who does ask this question.

I'd a done a "poll", but, there just too many moving parts.........

Personally, I'd like to ban EVERYONE from immigrating/emigrating stateside.....For a little while, anyways.
It has to do with politics why our government won't take a hard stand on immigration, when did you ever hear of our government concerned about the religious view of anything?
 
I

Is

Guest
#22
I've lived overseas in a Muslim run country in the Middle East. Your description does not fit my experience. In my experience everyone was respectful and hospitable and weren't out to "destroy Christians/Jews" so I don't think you're correct in your statement about "ALL muslims."

Really, Trump's proposed ban is a policy based in (a) collectivism, (b) fear and (c) laziness. His proposal views individuals as part of a collective in that it doesn't recognize individuation or variance within the group. His proposal is lazy because rather than do required leg work to differentiate between different types of Muslims or do the leg work required to combat the problem of radical Islamic ideology, it's theology, it's causes, and it's motives, it's much simpler to lump everyone into a collective and just ban them all.

Trump's collectivism is about as un-American as you can be. One of the hallmark's of American republicanism is the recognition of rights to life, liberty, property, and the pursuit of happiness for each and every individual. Trump's proposed ban denies these basic rights to certain people - namely, Muslims. He collectivizes them rather than individuating them, finds the group guilty without due process for the individuals in the group, and then makes policy affecting all individuals in the group. But this denies individuals in the group rights that are inherent to their humanity. On a fundamental level, Trump seems to be a nationalist and a collectivist. Both of these traits have historically proven to be very dangerous when someone with them is in power.



Seems like your criteria for a candidate is rather simple.



Why? And what do you do with the people already here?[/QUOTE]

I've lived overseas in a Muslim run country in the Middle East. Your description does not fit my experience. In my experience everyone was respectful and hospitable and weren't out to "destroy Christians/Jews" so I don't think you're correct in your statement about "ALL muslims."
Were you trying to start a church, were speaking openly about your faith, were you trying to convert Muslims to saving faith in Jesus Christ? You'd probably have recieved a different reaction if you had been. Many Christians that have studied the Koran and Muslims that have left Islam say it's not a religion of peace, but a religion of convert or kill the infidels (i.e. people that don't believe in Islam).
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#23
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob are all in the Koran, and Islam teaches that all three believed and followed One God.

the character of Islam and it's book radically changed with Mohammed - but it didn't begin with that man. if you took the time to witness and listen to a Moslem, you might discover that as Christians we have a lot in common, so that what separates us is largely the right understanding of who Christ is, and who Mohammed was.

that's not to say that the Truth we know is compatible with Islam -- but do the Moslems believe they serve the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob? yes, they do, the very same. "Allah" is simply the Arabic word meaning "God" - and when they say it, they mean to refer to the very same God. the difference between us is that they have rejected Christ, who He sent, and accepted a false prophet in His place. in that respect, they are no more different than Mormons from us.

personally, i'd like to ban ignorance and fear. which candidate is for that?
Trump is not saying permanently ban all but temporarily ban the Syrian refugees until we are sure who is who.

The Koran is their standard. It calls for Sharia Law whose principles are 180 deg from our Constitution. Essentially we are allowing those who oppose the Constitution if they are true Muslims and not in name only.

The difference between Islam and Mormonism is that while both are cults, Islam teaches world domination by the sword, Mormonism doesn't.
 

NayborBear

Banned Serpent Seed Heresy
#24
My heart ACHES for these people, KJV1611! Those verses sound an awful lot like a locust army. As can be seen on my nomenclature, I'm no spring chicken anymore. So, I was around in the 60's-70's, and remember a song from those days, that seemed to hold true, then, but, seems to hold even more true these days. There was a verse in that song that said:

Yer Free To Speak Yer Mind, My Friend,

As Long As You Agree With Me,

Don't Criticize The Fatherland,

Or Those Who Shape Yer Destiny.

Cuz, If You Do,

You'll Lose Yer Job, Yer Mind, And All The Friends Ya Knew,

We'll Send Out All Our Boys In Blue,

They'll Find A Way, To Silence You.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rG8IHyR_nY

Taken with a correct amount of "Yayin", you may understand, "a" process that ceases the "peculiarity" That a "Christian Nation" is SUPPOSED to BE!

Turn, Turn, Turn, People........Turn, Turn, Turn!

Ya know sometimes, KJV1611, I feel the frustration that Lot musta felt when "counseling" with JEHOVAH over the "plight" of Sodom and Gomorrah......."If I could find just 50 righteous souls, Lord!" Ya can almost envision the LORD looking straight into the camera and winking His eye, and, with a quirky smile, answering: "Sure, Lot! If you can find 50 righteous souls? I'll not destroy them.
 

Vdp

Banned
Nov 18, 2015
479
8
0
#25
First, Muslims do not Worship Jesus Christ. Second, Muslims believe Jesus is not God but only a person. Third Islam rejects God and follows the teachings of Satan.

Muslims are not our brothers in Christ because they reject Jesus.

The Koran does tell the Muslims to kill everyone who refuses to follow Allah.

You peoples have to understand that Islam was created by Satan to overthrow God and His Truths and replace them with what Satan says. Its Satan the Muslims worship and its Satan who the Muslims will die for, not God.

Its the Muslims who will be the main group in the end times that fights against God. We must realize that the Muslims main goal is to destroy Jesus and everything He stands for.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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#26
Over 200,000 people in the UK have already signed a petition (and the number is still rising) to have Trump banned from the UK. Once a petition goes over 100,000 it is supposed to be debated in parliament
However, in the UK when it comes to elections the politicians just say what you want to hear, whip you into a frenzy over something, promise you the moon, then as soon as the election I over excuses come as to why they cannot deliver on their election promises.
Is it like that in the states?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,998
26,134
113
#27
Over 200,000 people in the UK have already signed a petition (and the number is still rising) to have Trump banned from the UK. Once a petition goes over 100,000 it is supposed to be debated in parliament
However, in the UK when it comes to elections the politicians just say what you want to hear, whip you into a frenzy over something, promise you the moon, then as soon as the election I over excuses come as to why they cannot deliver on their election promises.
Is it like that in the states?
It seems to be like that with politicians in general regardless of which flag they fly.
 
Oct 21, 2015
2,420
12
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#28
First, Muslims do not Worship Jesus Christ. Second, Muslims believe Jesus is not God but only a person. Third Islam rejects God and follows the teachings of Satan.

Muslims are not our brothers in Christ because they reject Jesus.

The Koran does tell the Muslims to kill everyone who refuses to follow Allah.

You peoples have to understand that Islam was created by Satan to overthrow God and His Truths and replace them with what Satan says. Its Satan the Muslims worship and its Satan who the Muslims will die for, not God.

Its the Muslims who will be the main group in the end times that fights against God. We must realize that the Muslims main goal is to destroy Jesus and everything He stands for.
Yes, Islam is only going to get stronger and nothing will able to halt its rise. For i agree with you, in the end times Islam will be the religion that fights God according to biblical prophecies( zech chs 12&14)
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#29
Were you trying to start a church, were speaking openly about your faith, were you trying to convert Muslims to saving faith in Jesus Christ? You'd probably have recieved a different reaction if you had been.
In what way? I would venture to say the majority would have a reasonable, respectful discussion about my religion. I had no problems when the issue came up. In the cities where I lived/worked there were Catholic, Orthodox, and Protestant churches. Is the existence of Christianity in a Muslim country to be expected on your view? On your view, it sounds like those things should have been burned down and the congregations executed ages ago.

Where I was, there was no line between religion and state. Attempting to openly convert people would have been seen as undermining the state. So no, I didn't actively proselytize, but nor did they prevent Christians from assembling together and worshiping. So they didn't seek to "destroy Christians and Jews" as claimed by the OP.

Many Christians that have studied the Koran and Muslims that have left Islam say it's not a religion of peace, but a religion of convert or kill the infidels (i.e. people that don't believe in Islam).
So you don't distinguish between different types of Muslims? Why? Isn't this intellectually lazy? Do you deny that there is any variance within the group? Do you deny that there is individuation?
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#30
I don't think it can be stopped... below is what happens when a nations turns away from God. It sounds the US to me.

Deuteronomy 28:49-52 KJV
The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
[50] A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
[51] And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
[52] And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.
You do realize that these are the curses in the covenant God made with the nation of Israel, right? This isn't a covenant God made with America, so I don't think you will be able to apply it here given the actual meaning of the text.
 

JimmieD

Senior Member
Apr 11, 2014
895
18
18
#31
First, Muslims do not Worship Jesus Christ. Second, Muslims believe Jesus is not God but only a person. Third Islam rejects God and follows the teachings of Satan.

Muslims are not our brothers in Christ because they reject Jesus.

The Koran does tell the Muslims to kill everyone who refuses to follow Allah.

You peoples have to understand that Islam was created by Satan to overthrow God and His Truths and replace them with what Satan says. Its Satan the Muslims worship and its Satan who the Muslims will die for, not God.

Its the Muslims who will be the main group in the end times that fights against God. We must realize that the Muslims main goal is to destroy Jesus and everything He stands for.
If Trump were to succeed in banning Islam, and I let a few hide out in my basement and face Mecca 5 times a day, would I be going against Jesus?