The Why

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Oct 21, 2015
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Neh 13:15-17

15 In those days I saw in Judah some treading wine presses on the Sabbath, and bringing in sheaves, and lading asses; as also wine, grapes, and figs, and all manner of burdens, which they brought into Jerusalem on the Sabbath day: and I testified against them in the day wherein THEY SOLD VICTUALS.

16 There dwelt men of Tyre also therein which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the Sabbath to the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.

So the children of Israel were obviously buying wares and food from them.

17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said to them, what evil thing is this that you do, AND PROFANE THE SABBATH DAY?

This is pretty straight forward. Refute it however you would like.

Isaiah recorded your Creator saying that “if” you return to Him and His Sabbaths, “then” He will deliver you.

If you think that returning to them does not mean that you also need to refrain from buying and selling, this is your choice.

I also suggest that you do not simply return to the do’s and the don’ts because it you do, then you will not be delighting in the Sabbaths and delighting in them is also a requirement.

Amos records some starch warnings for those of you who will return to His ways with “an attitude”.

And this is a prophesy for right now as well;
As the Christian is under the new covenant it would be good if you could produce a verse of scripture from the new testament-covenant(one will do) that states Gentile Christians must observe a seventh day Sabbath

Thank you
 
Jul 27, 2011
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It is all about pride and their arrogance.

There are also other instructions like limiting our travel on the Sabbaths that should define themselves as you learn the spiritual intent of them.

Search the scriptures because I am just giving you a brief overview today.

We are told not to kindle a fire on the Sabbath and people pervert this as well.

He is not talking about a fire to keep yourself warm.

You can certainly have your fireplace burning to keep your home warm but you would certainly want to prepare for this and have your wood gathered and such.

Some want to say things like we cannot use electricity because that is a fire.

Things like this are insanity.

Do you think that they did not light lamps when the daylight was dim back then?

He was talking about not kindling a fire for work purposes.

There is nothing wrong with sticking the food that you have prepared the day before in the microwave or in the oven to heat it up.

And Yehshua validated that it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.

He said things like;
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Matt 12:11-12

11 And He said to them, what man is there among you that if he has a sheep fall into a pit on the Sabbath day that he will not lay hold of it and lift it out?

12 How much is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days.

They were condemning Him for healing on the Sabbath and they were condemning Him for letting His disciples pick grain to eat.

They had made the Sabbath about do’s and don’ts.

He said to them; don’t the priests do work when they perform their sacrifices and offerings on the Sabbaths or circumcise a boy on the Sabbath.

He was showing them their hypocrisy.

He was not doing any work to heal on the Sabbath.

Putting some mud on someone’s eyes or telling them to take up their bed and walk is not work.

It is hypocrisy to think that it is and they were full of hypocrisy.

His disciples were not out harvesting grain on the Sabbath, they were walking through a field and they were hungry so they picked some of the grain to eat as they walked through it.

Yehshua was saying to them that were condemning Him that day; how is this profaning the Sabbath?

He gave them the example of how David went into the temple and asked the priest for food when there was nothing for him and his men to eat.

They were hungry.

And the priest had nothing to give them except the show bread which was not lawful for them to eat but he gave it to them to eat because they were hungry.

Of course it is not unlawful to eat on the Sabbath.

And would you hold back food from someone who is hungry, even on the Sabbath?

Of course not.

And it is not against the law to help someone who is in need on the Sabbath.

I sometimes give the example of an acquaintance calling me up broke down in an emergency and needing help. I would help them.

But if they called me up and asked me to help them move next Monday and Monday was on a Sabbath, I would tell them that I would help them any other day but this day because it is my Father’s Sabbath.

Helping somebody move is not an emergency.

And telling them that you cannot help them for this reason is helping them because it is showing them that you will not defile your Father’s set apart day.

And maybe they will even respect you for this coupled with your other qualities that come from your Father and they might want what you have or want to learn more about this Creator that you serve
 
Jul 27, 2011
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It really is a matter of setting the day aside and it certainly is not to be a burden to do so.

The Sabbaths are to be a delight where we draw closer to our Creator and let Him feed us in an increased way than during the rest of the week.

They are a gift that is to point us to His rest and to give us rest and to feed us.

They are for us, yet it is commanded that we set them apart just as He sets them apart.

And, as I read back there in Isaiah 58, a people are being commanded to return to them at this time.

They are a sign between Him and those who will be His people.

And they are not for us to determine when we will show up before Him for them, He put the moon in place to tell us when we are to show up for them.

If you don’t think that they are a serious matter, ask the guy who carried the sticks for his opinion.

As with all of His instructions, they are given to mold and fashion us in His image.

If you don’t want them or you want them for the wrong reasons just to save your neck, this is your choice.

Prepare to find out that you have made the wrong choice.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Matt 12:11-12

11 And He said to them, what man is there among you that if he has a sheep fall into a pit on the Sabbath day that he will not lay hold of it and lift it out?

12 How much is a man better than a sheep? Therefore it is lawful to do well on the Sabbath days.

They were condemning Him for healing on the Sabbath and they were condemning Him for letting His disciples pick grain to eat.

They had made the Sabbath about do’s and don’ts.

He said to them; don’t the priests do work when they perform their sacrifices and offerings on the Sabbaths or circumcise a boy on the Sabbath.

He was showing them their hypocrisy.

He was not doing any work to heal on the Sabbath.

Putting some mud on someone’s eyes or telling them to take up their bed and walk is not work.

It is hypocrisy to think that it is and they were full of hypocrisy.

His disciples were not out harvesting grain on the Sabbath, they were walking through a field and they were hungry so they picked some of the grain to eat as they walked through it.

Yehshua was saying to them that were condemning Him that day; how is this profaning the Sabbath?

He gave them the example of how David went into the temple and asked the priest for food when there was nothing for him and his men to eat.

They were hungry.

And the priest had nothing to give them except the show bread which was not lawful for them to eat but he gave it to them to eat because they were hungry.

Of course it is not unlawful to eat on the Sabbath.

And would you hold back food from someone who is hungry, even on the Sabbath?

Of course not.

And it is not against the law to help someone who is in need on the Sabbath.

I sometimes give the example of an acquaintance calling me up broke down in an emergency and needing help. I would help them.

But if they called me up and asked me to help them move next Monday and Monday was on a Sabbath, I would tell them that I would help them any other day but this day because it is my Father’s Sabbath.

Helping somebody move is not an emergency.

And telling them that you cannot help them for this reason is helping them because it is showing them that you will not defile your Father’s set apart day.

And maybe they will even respect you for this coupled with your other qualities that come from your Father and they might want what you have or want to learn more about this Creator that you serve
I take the above as admitting you cant supply even one. Thanks for that
 
Jul 27, 2011
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I take the above as admitting you cant supply even one. Thanks for that
Someday you will see, maybe when Jesus returns as King of kings and Lord of lords. So maybe not today but one day for sure.
 
Jul 27, 2011
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Jesus told the people, it is not wrong to do well on Sabbath, He never said the Sabbath is obsolete.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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Someday you will see, maybe when Jesus returns as King of kings and Lord of lords. So maybe not today but one day for sure.
I guess the above applies to the Apostle Paul also in your view
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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As the Christian is under the new covenant it would be good if you could produce
a verse of scripture from the new testament-covenant(one will do) that states Gentile Christians
must observe a seventh day Sabbath

Thank you

Ten Commandments [the oracles of God]

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:

who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of

[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12

If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them

were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2

- - -

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,
that thou shalt be no priest to me:

seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.



God is not going force you to worship on the Sabbath now, When Christ rules He will,
The Sabbath was the day people went to a place where worship to be had.
 
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Oct 21, 2015
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Ten Commandments [the oracles of God]

This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel
which spake to him in [the mount Sina], and with our fathers:

who received the lively oracles [ to give unto us ] Acts 7:38

For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need
that one teach you again which be the first principles of

[the oracles of God]; and are become such as have
need of milk, and not of strong meat. Hebrews 5:12

If any man speak, let him speak as [the oracles of God];
if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth:

that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ,
to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
Much every way:chiefly, because that unto them

were committed [the oracles of God]. Romans 3:2

- - -

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:
because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee,
that thou shalt be no priest to me:

seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them.
O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.



God is not going force you to worship on the Sabbath now, When Christ rules He will,
The Sabbath was the day people went to a place where worship to be had.
Thank you for confirming you have not one verse of scripture either from the new testament(covenant) requiring a gentile convert to observe a seventh day sabbath
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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Thank you for confirming you have not one verse of scripture either from the new testament(covenant) requiring a gentile convert to observe a seventh day sabbath
so you believe old testement verses do not apply?
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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the New Covenant validates God's laws by putting them right into the minds and hearts of Christians!


Jesus "magnified" God's law (Isaiah 42:21,). He taught that Christians are not to murder,
and must not even harbor an attitude of hate (Matthew 5:21–24)



Christ came "to confirm the promises made to the fathers" (Romans 15:8).

He outlined the terms and conditions of the New Covenant, saying: "
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God" (Luke 4:4; Deuteronomy 8:3).

As He explained: "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God
has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away
than for one tittle of the law to fail" (Luke 16:16–17).




Which commandments? Did this forever include the animal sacrifices and ceremonial laws that God
later added as a reminder of sin, after He had given the spiritual laws and principles of Exodus 20–24?

Animal sacrifice and ceremonial laws were not part of the original Sinai Covenant.
These were added later, after the covenant was enacted by blood (Exodus 24:8).


"Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV).




"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17)
 
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Nov 22, 2015
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All scripture needs to be viewed through the lens of the finished work of Jesus. There is an Old Covenant and a New Covenant. The Old is a goner!!

Here is a scripture from the Old which if we take as being true for us..we are all not in the Book ( which ever book that is..there are many books in heaven )

Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.

Who has not sinned?..I know I have and I will in the future too!
 
Nov 22, 2015
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Classic example of taking scripture out of context....what must "I DO" which is classic Old Covenant..Jesus answered him with the law..then showed he could not keep the law because he actually broke the first one by having money as his idol.

We all know to get eternal life is by believing in Jesus as your Savior and not keeping rules.

Matthew 19:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?



the New Covenant validates God's laws by putting them right into the minds and hearts of Christians!


Jesus "magnified" God's law (Isaiah 42:21,). He taught that Christians are not to murder,
and must not even harbor an attitude of hate (Matthew 5:21–24)



Christ came "to confirm the promises made to the fathers" (Romans 15:8).

He outlined the terms and conditions of the New Covenant, saying: "
Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God" (Luke 4:4; Deuteronomy 8:3).

As He explained: "The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God
has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away
than for one tittle of the law to fail" (Luke 16:16–17).




Which commandments? Did this forever include the animal sacrifices and ceremonial laws that God
later added as a reminder of sin, after He had given the spiritual laws and principles of Exodus 20–24?

Animal sacrifice and ceremonial laws were not part of the original Sinai Covenant.
These were added later, after the covenant was enacted by blood (Exodus 24:8).


"Sin is the transgression of the law" (1 John 3:4, KJV).




"If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments" (Matthew 19:17)
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
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Someday you will see, maybe when Jesus returns
as King of kings and Lord of lords. So maybe not today but one day for sure.

I guess the above applies to the Apostle Paul also in your view
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants,
and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

-the Apostle Pauls saw and understood Christs return, to rule as King of Kings on earth.

Unto which promise our twelve tribes, instantly serving God day and night, hope to come.
For which hope's sake, king Agrippa, am accused of the Jews. Acts 26:7

That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom,
and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Luke 22:30

And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me,
in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,
ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28

-Pauls hope to come, was in the promises given to [the twelve tribes of Israel].

Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity,
and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God, and the Lord hath chosen thee to be
a peculiar people unto himself, above all the nations that are upon the earth.

But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people;
that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness
into his marvellous light:1 Peter 2:9....simular as Deuteronomy 14:2

For the Lord hath chosen Zion; he hath desired it for his habitation.
For the Lord hath chosen Jacob unto himself, and Israel for his peculiar treasure.



1 Chronicles 16:17 (KJV)
And hath confirmed the same to Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant,

Psalms 105:10 (KJV)
And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law,
and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

Psalms 78:5 (KJV)
For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel,
which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children:


Isaiah 42:24 (KJV)
Who gave Jacob for a spoil, and Israel to the robbers? did not the Lord,
he against whom we have sinned? for they would not walk in his ways,
neither were they obedient unto his law.


Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things?
Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once?
for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.



But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound,
[the mystery of God] should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.



Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord;
and the people whom he hath chosen for his own inheritance.
 
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prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
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And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ;
and he shall reign for ever and ever.


18In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel,
and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that
I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.


17At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the Lord; and all the nations
shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the Lord, to Jerusalem: neither shall they
walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.


23And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen,
which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that
I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

24For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries,
and will bring you into [your own land]. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you,
and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will
take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27And I will put my spirit within you, and [cause you to walk] in [my statutes],
and ye[ shall] keep [my judgments], and do them.

28And ye shall dwell in the land that [I gave to your fathers]; and ye shall be my people,
and I will be your God. 29I will also save you from [all your uncleannesses]:

31Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good,
and [shall lothe yourselves] in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.



43And there shall ye remember your ways, and all your doings, wherein ye have been defiled;
and ye shall [lothe yourselves] in your own sight for all your evils that ye have committed.


-The bible says in the future to come, Israel will [lothe themselves] for Sabbaths breaking.


And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another,
shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.
 
Oct 21, 2015
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so you believe old testement verses do not apply?
If we are told to follow after the holy spirit rather than the written code under the new covenant we are called to do just that.

Not everything under the old covenant applies to the new one, I am sure you would agree.

If Paul tell us we can either have one specific day as more sacred/ holy than another, or treat every day alike, we don't then go to the old covenant to try and supercede what is written concerning the new one.
The law is on your heart now, those who have to read the literal letter to know what law God wants them to keep have problems in my view
 
Apr 11, 2015
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If we are told to follow after the holy spirit rather than the written code under the new covenant we are called to do just that.

Not everything under the old covenant applies to the new one, I am sure you would agree.

If Paul tell us we can either have one specific day as more sacred/ holy than another, or treat every day alike, we don't then go to the old covenant to try and supercede what is written concerning the new one.
The law is on your heart now, those who have to read the literal letter to know what law God wants them to keep have problems in my view

imho it can only be that you have not as yet googled [Hell's best kept secret] - wincam
 
L

Laodicea

Guest
If we are told to follow after the holy spirit rather than the written code under the new covenant we are called to do just that.

Not everything under the old covenant applies to the new one, I am sure you would agree.

If Paul tell us we can either have one specific day as more sacred/ holy than another, or treat every day alike, we don't then go to the old covenant to try and supercede what is written concerning the new one.
The law is on your heart now, those who have to read the literal letter to know what law God wants them to keep have problems in my view
So you do teach we do not need the Bible rather you teach you think the Holy Spirit is enough. You base your religion on what you think the Holy Spirit tells you and this statement is proof of your teaching.