The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification

[know1]

There is a third point you didn't touch on, wilfull disobedience (wilfull sin) causes a loss of salvation...

No one loses their salvation if they willfully disobey God. Salvation is not based on works, but faith in Christ. Disobedience causes the curses of the law to come on a person, hence the reason why people get sicknesses and diseases, and why they are poor and die an early death.

 

[know1]

So, the works of the law of righteousness are just that, laws that make us right with God, we are right with God by obeying His voice, listening to His Word, following His commandments set before us, and, we do that how? By works of faith

Does it take faith to love others? I say, NOT!
How can you say that works of the law of righteousness make us right with God, then read Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
You cannot ignore scripture that clearly contradicts works of the law. Works of faith are not the same as works of the law of righteousness. Works of the law have more to do with consequences in this temporal life in the physical. Works of faith, though dealing with life in the physical, have more of an eternal consequence. Works of faith requires and uses God's or Christ's faith. Where works of the law requires obedience. Works of faith uses God's strengths and abilities, vs works of the law uses our own natural strengths and abilities. Works of faith, grace. Works of the law, debt owed. Works of faith, God doing the work. Works of the law, man doing the work. Works of faith, freedom. Works of the law, bondage. And the list goes on.

 

[Ariel82]

Know1 do you believe everyone will be saved and go to heaven?

What do you believe about Hell?

 

[know1]

There is a third point you didn't touch on, wilfull disobedience (wilfull sin) causes a loss of salvation...

In every case it is a matter of attitude. No one can obey perfectly, but we can obey with a perfect heart. The desire to do everything just the way God wants it done. This is what God is seeking. One who disregards obedience and thinks it is a small matter may well be in for a surprise and there will be no party associated with said surpirse.

Would you give me an example sir, of something you actually did that was obeying God or His law that caused you to keep your salvation?

 

[know1]

Know1 do you believe everyone will be saved and go to heaven?

No silly, I don't believe everyone will be saved and go to heaven.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Joh 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
I believe the scriptures just the way it is written. I don't add anything to it to make it the 'whole truth' of God. If I did, it would negate many verses in the bible, rendering the word of god a lie.


What do you believe about Hell?

I'm assuming you want to know if I believe in a literal hell that everyone that is not born again will go to.
Like I said, I believe it as it is written.
Luk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
To put it simply, yes, I believe everyone that is not born again or saved will go to a literal hell, but this does not include children, for children are not considered men or an adult. They have an automatic ticket to heaven until they become an adult.

 

[homwardbound]

Works. Rituals. What pleases God. Grace. God's Holiness. Forgiveness. Judaism. Hebrews. Israel.

"all this fits together"

it's you who doesn't understand.

you're a judaizer and a false teacher.

So you are an accuser of the brethren, you try to keep others from approching the throne of grace? I do think from scripture the accuser is who? You know the word, You decide, watch out it shows
I mean this in by the love of God, no where have I seen Redtent post that we must do this or that, I have only seen posts of sharing in concern for everyone, knowing not all will see what she sees and is comfortable in.
Yet you are not again as I have pointed this out to you many a times, we are here in Love to help each other grow in the grace given us by Christ. I am weary of what your true motives are, aware as a serpent, and harmless as a dove trusting God to showeach of us to love one another as God has loved us all vuia the cross of Christ and actually has loved us all from day one, having Mercy above sacrifice, please Sister show some, make your points but not in accusing others as if they are not believers because they do not beleive the same as your denomination does.
RedTent beleives in Christ and Christ has accepted, the same as you, I know you claim beleif in the savior as well, so then you are accepted as well. Praying for you to see through

 

[homwardbound]

And , this is not to say that redtentHis can speak perfectly only and not ohzone, no, both can SHOW Love more in their expression of Scripture's revelation to them from Him

No greennice Zone has a miraculous way of drawing out others flesh, especially those growing in grace, kind of like when a caterpillar is in it's coccon not yet born again, and the words used said by Zone tear it open before it hatches.
Now wether Zone is aware of this or not is on her not me, not anyone else, and I pray she sees this as well. This behavior of hers is all over the posts everywhere and I have seen the anger from others that couldn't take it and reviule and get banned. To whose shame?
Love you Zone praying for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! for it is theLove of God that teaches all of us to say no to unrighteousness.
Hopefully you will see this, for the enemy came to do what Zone? And Christ came to do what?
[h=3]John 10:10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

 

[homwardbound]

Well H, of course it is God through us. God is consistent. He doesn't change His mind every whipstitch. He started this creation with a seventh day Sabbath. He gave this Law on Sinai and put people to death for breaking it. Do you really believe that now He has changed His mind and said "Oops, let's go to another day?" Seems like that leaves a whole lot of people that were unfairly executed.

sin period caused death period first time was at the garden and took eat of that tree of evil. The sabbath rest was created for us to rest and I rest everyday of the week, in the Spirit of God being restored by god by the resurrected Christ

So please understand this, I believe ans I see you do as well, I am not in any way trying to stop you from what you believe to be, and I have posted to you as waht i do beleive as well, and so please do not try to put on me to be you, as I am not putting this on you. So please read the following and see what I say and let us be one in Christ
Romans 14:5One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind
[h=3]Romans 14:4-14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
[SUP]11[/SUP]For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[SUP]13[/SUP]Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
All in love to you, because we both are babtized into and unto the Lord by Christ, and thus show mutual Love to each other, even though we do not agree in certain things, we do agree in the Christ yes?

 

[homwardbound]

Yes, But the punishment for breaking it was not given until the law of moses.

Which was 430 years after the promise to Abraham by Faith, which is the original covenant, not of law, and so Jesus filled all to bring home the original in the order of Melchizadek. The new Covenant, new laws and new Priesthood
Hebrews 9, 7 cover the new
9:15-17 and 7:11-12

[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.


[h=3]Hebrews 7:11-12[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
[SUP]12[/SUP]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

 

[homwardbound]

No one loses their salvation if they willfully disobey God. Salvation is not based on works, but faith in Christ. Disobedience causes the curses of the law to come on a person, hence the reason why people get sicknesses and diseases, and why they are poor and die an early death.

God rains the rain rain on the good and bad alike, From waht you just said is that my disease I incurred recently is a punishment. First part you said I agree with, not the last part, for none is obedient, no not one
2 Corinthians 10:5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ
2 Corinthians 10:6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

I know God does just love me and that the enemy brings destruction to the flesh to stop those that believe as what the enenmy tried to do to Job, yet Job would not curse God. Not that you just did, but please rightfully discern truth away fron condemnation please. God is a God of love not condeming as the accusser is. Otherwise why would God ahve gone to the cross. Surely God did not ever need to for himself ever at all.
Just truth here to consider why then did God go there? And what did God accomplish there? since he had nothing to accomplish for himself seeing God is perfect

 

[homwardbound]

Does it take faith to love others? I say, NOT!
How can you say that works of the law of righteousness make us right with God, then read Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
You cannot ignore scripture that clearly contradicts works of the law. Works of faith are not the same as works of the law of righteousness. Works of the law have more to do with consequences in this temporal life in the physical. Works of faith, though dealing with life in the physical, have more of an eternal consequence. Works of faith requires and uses God's or Christ's faith. Where works of the law requires obedience. Works of faith uses God's strengths and abilities, vs works of the law uses our own natural strengths and abilities. Works of faith, grace. Works of the law, debt owed. Works of faith, God doing the work. Works of the law, man doing the work. Works of faith, freedom. Works of the law, bondage. And the list goes on.

Thank you for posting the differance.

 

[know1]

God rains the rain rain on the good and bad alike, From waht you just said is that my disease I incurred recently is a punishment. First part you said I agree with, not the last part, for none is obedient, no not one
2 Corinthians 10:5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ
2 Corinthians 10:6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

I know God does just love me and that the enemy brings destruction to the flesh to stop those that believe as what the enenmy tried to do to Job, yet Job would not curse God. Not that you just did, but please rightfully discern truth away fron condemnation please. God is a God of love not condeming as the accusser is. Otherwise why would God ahve gone to the cross. Surely God did not ever need to for himself ever at all.
Just truth here to consider why then did God go there? And what did God accomplish there? since he had nothing to accomplish for himself seeing God is perfect

People don't like to think the unthinkable about a loving God, but some things are very clear in scripture, and this is one of them. If you want me to rightfully discern truth then I will show you truth as it is written.

Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
Deu 28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
Deu 28:21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 28:22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
Deu 28:23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
Deu 28:24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
Deu 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
Deu 28:26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.
Deu 28:27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
Deu 28:28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.




Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Everyone know that God does not change, that He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Just because one doesn't want to believe planes can fly does not mean that it renders the laws of physics useless or make them void of effect. It's all through scripture, God punishes the one sinning with some type of affliction.

Pro_3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
Pro_3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Jer_10:24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


The verses in Hebrews have nothing to do with eternal damnation, but a curse from God to smite or punish the person in the natural that sinned against Christ, the blood, and the Spirit, like He did with King David concerning Bathsheba.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Again, this has to do with punishment in the natural, not eternal damnation to those who are His children.
These are only a few verses to show that God will punish His children with sickness, disease, and/or anything else He deems worthy for the offense. I show this only for the sake of argument.
Of course, God is a merciful, loving, kind, compassionate, caring, long suffering,...etc.

 

[Ariel82]

thanks for clarifying Know1. I just wanted to check and make sure.

 

[homwardbound]

People don't like to think the unthinkable about a loving God, but some things are very clear in scripture, and this is one of them. If you want me to rightfully discern truth then I will show you truth as it is written.

Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
Deu 28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me.
Deu 28:21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 28:22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish.
Deu 28:23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron.
Deu 28:24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
Deu 28:25 The LORD shall cause thee to be smitten before thine enemies: thou shalt go out one way against them, and flee seven ways before them: and shalt be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth.
Deu 28:26 And thy carcase shall be meat unto all fowls of the air, and unto the beasts of the earth, and no man shall fray them away.
Deu 28:27 The LORD will smite thee with the botch of Egypt, and with the emerods, and with the scab, and with the itch, whereof thou canst not be healed.
Deu 28:28 The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart:

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.




Mat 18:34 And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
Mat 18:35 So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

Joh 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Joh 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Everyone know that God does not change, that He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Just because one doesn't want to believe planes can fly does not mean that it renders the laws of physics useless or make them void of effect. It's all through scripture, God punishes the one sinning with some type of affliction.

Pro_3:11 My son, despise not the chastening of the LORD; neither be weary of his correction:
Pro_3:12 For whom the LORD loveth he correcteth; even as a father the son in whom he delighteth.

Jer_10:24 O LORD, correct me, but with judgment; not in thine anger, lest thou bring me to nothing.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
Heb 10:31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.


The verses in Hebrews have nothing to do with eternal damnation, but a curse from God to smite or punish the person in the natural that sinned against Christ, the blood, and the Spirit, like He did with King David concerning Bathsheba.

Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.


Again, this has to do with punishment in the natural, not eternal damnation to those who are His children.
These are only a few verses to show that God will punish His children with sickness, disease, and/or anything else He deems worthy for the offense. I show this only for the sake of argument.
Of course, God is a merciful, loving, kind, compassionate, caring, long suffering,...etc.

Well noone is going to heaven if God is not Merciful, one has to earn their salvation, recieve it by Faith and then lose it by not beiing perfect HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God is not Merciful, God lied when God said he loves us. I am sorry for you, that you do not believe God to absolutely love you and that God made the way for you with out any works. Oh well all have free choice and let the cards fall wherever they fall. you have spoken out of two sides of your mouth.
On one hand you say God is Merciful, then you take it away
I bet anytime you sin you ask God to forgive you over and over and have learned to sin less and less, by your own methods of self will worship, yet still not perfect in and of yourself, when do you think God will get a stomach over you not being perfect and having to take Pepto-Bismal, because that sin you can't quite master, and do it over and over again, HMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder is God turning his back in a swivel chair over you, Either you are forgiven period or you are not, Either Christ took away all sin at the cross or Christ and John the Babtist lied
There is no place in the New Testament anywhere after the death of Christ, anywhere that any writer has said to get forgiveness after one sins, after one believes, not even after the only one that is used as if this is what it says to ask God over and over for more forgivenss after one agrees that Christ did come in the flesh and agrees that they have the sin nature of flesh and are in need of the forgiveness provided at the cross, mostimportantly life new given by God throguh the resurre4cted Chirst, n order to live the new life and worship in Spirit and truth, as what is today the only way to worship in Spirit and truth.
Please find it, where anywhere after the death of Christ, after one does beleive in Christ, they have recieved forgiveness, there is no more forgiveness from God to executed, Christ is not coming back to do it all over again it is finished
we have the message of reconciliation, therfore let us be reconciled to God. There is no in and out of fellowship with God, One is either in fellowship with God or they are not

 

[homwardbound]

thanks for clarifying Know1. I just wanted to check and make sure.

God plain and simply just loves you period
Believe this, see what it is from God and respond to this, and recieve this you are forgiven 100% for all time, this is the good news for thankfulness, not for go out and stress out as was before the cross, yet Evil has thus worked its way back into a works salvation that unless you ask for more forgiveness, you are at least out of fellowship with God or you are not saved, something like the Judiaisers that said oh yeah your saved yeah, but you need to be circumcised, hog wash, the deceptor is out roaring like a lion and has decieved many
If I have to get more forgiveness from God, then I do not beleive God died for all my sins before I was ever born
That when he went to the cross that it was not for all, when it states in scripture it is for all
Romans 6:10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.

So in response to this are we going to be thankful and by response trust God to live God's life through us, in place of us going out and saying watch my smoke

Hebrews 9:26Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world. But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself

1. Hebrews 10:1
   [ Christ’s Sacrifice Once for All ] The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship.
   
2. Hebrews 10:2Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins.
   
3. Hebrews 10:10And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
   
   [h=3]Romans 5:10[/h]New International Version (NIV)
   
   [SUP]10 [/SUP]For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

[know1]

Well noone is going to heaven if God is not Merciful, one has to earn their salvation, recieve it by Faith and then lose it by not beiing perfect HMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God is not Merciful, God lied when God said he loves us. I am sorry for you, that you do not believe God to absolutely love you and that God made the way for you with out any works. Oh well all have free choice and let the cards fall wherever they fall. you have spoken out of two sides of your mouth.
On one hand you say God is Merciful, then you take it away
I bet anytime you sin you ask God to forgive you over and over and have learned to sin less and less, by your own methods of self will worship, yet still not perfect in and of yourself, when do you think God will get a stomach over you not being perfect and having to take Pepto-Bismal, because that sin you can't quite master, and do it over and over again, HMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!! I wonder is God turning his back in a swivel chair over you, Either you are forgiven period or you are not, Either Christ took away all sin at the cross or Christ and John the Babtist lied
There is no place in the New Testament anywhere after the death of Christ, anywhere that any writer has said to get forgiveness after one sins, after one believes, not even after the only one that is used as if this is what it says to ask God over and over for more forgivenss after one agrees that Christ did come in the flesh and agrees that they have the sin nature of flesh and are in need of the forgiveness provided at the cross, mostimportantly life new given by God throguh the resurre4cted Chirst, n order to live the new life and worship in Spirit and truth, as what is today the only way to worship in Spirit and truth.
Please find it, where anywhere after the death of Christ, after one does beleive in Christ, they have recieved forgiveness, there is no more forgiveness from God to executed, Christ is not coming back to do it all over again it is finished we have the message of reconciliation, therfore let us be reconciled to God. There is no in and out of fellowship with God, One is either in fellowship with God or they are not

I believe sir, this is a case of misunderstanding. Perhaps it is my doing.
I never said one loses their salvation when they sin, but receives punishment in the natural because of it. The whole purpose for this thread was to point out the differences of works. Some say that one loses their salvation when they don't obey God's commandments and use scripture, I believe, incorrectly to back up their doctrine.
I have said from the beginning that one does not lose their salvation when they are willfully disobedient or sin, but that there are consequences in the natural. What I was showing you in the above post via scripture was the consequences of sin or disobedience to God and that God is the one that sends the curse against that person. Again, this has nothing to do with the person's salvation if born of God, but has everything to do with the here and now.
God is love and He is merciful, but is it so difficult for you to believe that a loving God that will send millions of sinners to the lake of fire, to suffer day and night, for eternity, would not be a loving God if He punishes you in the natural for sins you committed? He didn't take away your salvation, thanks to Blood of Jesus, but He did take away His blessings in a small area or two of your life. The whole purpose of repentance is for forgiveness from God, so He can bless you in the natural once again. How did John the baptist prepare the way for the coming of the lord? It was to get people to repent of their doubt and of their sins so that they could receive the words of Jesus to be healed, delivered, blessed, saved,...etc. When one is born again, all past sins are pardoned. No wrath from God for sins done in the past. But, like all of us, you will fall and sin after the new birth. Those sins committed in the future are covered in the blood of Jesus, in that you keep you salvation, but it does not protect you from the judgement of God in the natural world. That's why God tells us to repent. It is so we can be forgiven so He can heal and/or deliver us from the curse He sent against us.
You asked me to show you where one is forgiven after they are born again?

1Jn 1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jn 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jn 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

2Co 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Jas 5:13 Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

The above are just a few verses that show the need for one that is born again to repent of their sins or offenses against God to receive forgiveness from Him so He can make that person whole. Again, these are natural sicknesses and diseases that God heals you of, after you repent, in most cases.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Heb 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?



If you will notice the witnesses mentioned in verse 28, were people witnessing against the natural life of the accused, causing physical death, not spiritual. This is how God sees our sins and therefore sends judgment against us in the natural life. He does not condemn us to eternal punishment, that is where the blood of Jesus come in.
Do you understand what I am saying yet? There are two different judgments, one is eternal, the other temporal.

 

[know1]

Still waiting for someone to give me a real testimony of some righteous or obedient act they did personally that caused them to keep their salvation.

 

[Kerry]

Acts 13
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Romans 3
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Romans 4
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 5
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

1 Corinthians 6
11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Galatians 2
[/FONT]16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 3
11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

Galatians 5
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Looks like faith in the work of the cross to me and by His grace and nothing else.

 

[Kerry]

I forgot to mention the book of James, which many use to that we are justified by works and on the surface does seem contrary to Paul's writings. However, James is putting stamp that if you have placed your faith in cross, then your life or lifestyle will change to do the works of the Lord. For instance, if I say I believe and my faith is in the cross, yet I reveal in sin, I am a liar and God is not with me. Yet if I am true, I detest the things this world has to offer and delight in the things of God.

Now with that being said. A born again believer can slip in temptation and become bound. Whether by alcohol, drugs, pornography, racism, and so on.

Yet if we are not moved and lean on the cross and don't give up, we will be set free and Glory to God.

 

[john832]

I have never seen anyone. And I know many from ALL churches who do not completely follow the sabaath.

So if the OT law is still in effect today, And God still kills people for breaking his laws.. why have we not seen any??

So in your estimation, this scripture is not true?

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

And by YOUR logic, the Devil does not exist because you have not seen him. For that matter have you ever seen God?