"They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What is...

eternally-gratefull · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

Who are the antichrists? Vs those who are truly saved and PART of the church?

Lets read on.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth

These would be true believers, vs those who never had the annointing .

[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

So would this not be those who as you say, walked away and no longer believe? are they not denying the father and son??

PS, Dont worry about your spelling. I think my spelling and typo's are the worse here!!..lol

GreenNnice · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

Not only did they never have the annointing, they were never born again.

i just think 'believer' is truth and 'true believer' is false.

You either are born again and believe or you don't.

Some people , is it 'people' or 'disciples' in Scripture, but, anyhoo, some fell away when Jesus gives them the command to, was it, 'drop everything and follow me.'

my thinking is this, those that did not drop everything and follow Him had mere belief. i wish i could explain this better

eg, these people were not born again, they had not accepted Christ , they were anti Christ but not antichrists , lol .

but, yeah, those in 1 John 2 are the Devils own, 'antichrists..'

What is your definition of those 'antichrists,,' eg ?

eternally-gratefull · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

GreenNnice said:

exactly!

Not sure what you mean here..lol

better yet. you have either repented and come to faith in Christ and are born again because of this faith, or you have not.

yes, because they did not believe, as Peter said. you have the words which grants eternal life, where are we going to go. The ones who had faith stayed, that is why they were clean. as apposed to those who did not. who left.

They are antichrist. Anti means against, Thus to be an antichrist would be against Christ.

those that leave, no matter what the reason. are against Christ, as he said, your either for me or against me.. you can;t be in the middle.

GreenNnice · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

But in 1 John 2, and, sorry if i backtrack on my own logic today, a,lot on my mind, the Lord leads, but, yes, what , who, where, when, why , how are they 'anti Christ,' when the word is MUCH deeper than that: 'antichrists.'

Please define 'antichrists,' eg ? ¥es,, I agree, those who left were definitely anti Christ.

GreenNnice · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

eg, I know, whoever has the Lord lead their life--this simply means following Him, accepting His will on their life--will worry not about where their self is going

GreenNnice · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

eg, not what i'm asking of you, but, for reference, this speaks of the one to come to power per Revelations 13 and Daniel 7.

wikipedia is source:
The Antichrist is a Christian concept based on interpretation of passages in the New Testament. In the New Testament, the term "antichrist" occurs five times in 1 John and 2 John, once in plural form and four times in the singular. [1]

In traditional Christian belief, Jesus the Messiah appears in his Second Coming to earth, to face the emergence of the Antichrist figure. Just as Christ is the savior and the ideal model for humanity, his opponent in the End of Days will be a single figure of concentrated evil.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

GreenNnice said:

who are antichrists according to that passage?

those who were not anointed. those who did not believe in truth. What did John say? If they were of us 9were saved) they never would have left.

Anyone who leaves is an antichrist. Why would you put more meaning to it than it realy needs?

or are you trying to say he is like a prodigal son? I disagree. the prodigal son would never have denied his dad, or denied he was his fathers son. He just went out on his own. He never stopped being the son. so we can not use that in this passage. I am talking about people who leave and now deny Christ.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

GreenNnice said:

Not sure how that corresponds to 1 john 2.. That speaks of a person. not many people.

an antichrist would be anyone who denies the saving work of christ, and or teaches a different gospel. apposed to the true gospel of christ.

GreenNnice · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

eternally-gratefull said:

Yes. I agree. ^

I am just trying to bring this definition to a truth understanding that those who are anti Christ are not the 'antichrists' that 1 John 2:`9 speaks of. 'They' are a totally seperate people group, one of death, who serves the ONE who is not God, who is ONE who is pure, concentrated, unadulterated evil. This type of person.

And, I am not, necessarily saying that these 'antichrists' in 1 John 2:19 speak of the same 'antichrists' (aren't there 7 of them in Revelation? ) but, that could be truth, too. This Scripture could be those, no?

Yes.

Who spoke out against God , who was 'annointed,' eg, ah, yes, this is true, you said this earlier, speaking of Scripture after 1 John 2:19 verse. 'They did not get the annointing, now, being annointed is what happens when one is born again. These antichrists, therefore, were NEVER a Christian in the fist place.

Does this make sense, they never accepted Christ, and, they did not even believe in Christ in the first place they just went out with them, I can only guess, to try and disturb the Christian believers of their faith in Him, this is not ' faith' either that the antichrists had, quite the opposite in fact, it is no faith.

'Faith,' 'true faith,' why do that? 'Savinig faith,' too. Why? The confusion of one simple term, FAITH

You either have 'it' or you don't.

The just shall live by faith.

eternally-gratefull · Jan 31, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

GreenNnice said:

Well you have not made this distinction. All you have done is show what might be..

The antichrists of 1 john are clear. They have not been annointed, and they deny Christ. It says nothing about worshiping one who is not Christ. so why would we try to make it be them only?

20:But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Where is the antichrist of rev in here?? John makes a distinction of who YOU (those truly saved) vs they (antichrist)

They were a part of the church. They probably believed they were saved, and doing the things God wanted them to do. Then they left, and denied Jesus was the Christ. I have seen this many times in the many churches I have went to.

GreenNnice · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

eternally-gratefull said:

eg, no 'probably believed' about it, 'they,' the 'antichrists' did NOT believe, this is why they were found out, they were ALWAYS anti Christ, in fact, an antichrist is someone who TRIES to teach believers to deny the Father and the Son.

eg, this,is,in no way judging you, i don't think you are going to.hell unlike some like to.preach to OSAS, we both have CHOSEN to have 'the mind, we have the 'aroma of Christ' and you aren't calling Jesus not your Lord, and, I ain't either, however, false teaching is something to pay attention to.the ramifications eternally of doing and, no, unless you are teaching others to DENY Christ (definiteky a form of blasphemy, btw)an 'antichrist' minion of the coming Antichrist figure then you are not in danger of going to get you and your works burned up, saved with you as you go into the 'fire..'

PS · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

The Antichrist hasn't come yet, at least not THE Antichrist at the end of the world although there are deceivers here and now and have been for a long time who are leading Christ's elect astray which is why many do not have the "True Faith" that Jesus taught, preferring instead the teachings of men.

Luke 21:8
And he said, Take heed that you be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draws near: go you not therefore after them.

Mark 13:22
For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Matthew 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Matthew 24:5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

GreenNnice said:

It does not say this in the text. It says they were part of us, and then went out from us. I think they were part of the church, and no one even knew they were non believers. they fit right in.. Again I have seen this alot. I don;t think we should add to the text something that is not there.

My brother. Unless they are teaching a licentious form of OSAS, which I might add I have NEVER seen anyone teach this. All who teach God gives us eternal life, and this life is sealed by the spirit who is our guarantee of eternal life until redemption day ressurection) are going to heaven. OSAS is just a term. it is the gospel which is salvic.

what worries me is people teaching salvation is dependnent on some work we do. Whether it be working to be good. Working to carry our cross. Working to not fall away or whatever, or God will yank his gift back. This is not from God. and is a gospel of self not of Christ. These people are in just as much danger as those who teach licentiousness.

Abiding · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

EG :Where is the antichrist of rev in here?? John makes a distinction of who YOU (those truly saved) vs they (antichrist)

EG thats one of the problems people get confused with....terminology and titles.
The word Antichrist isnt used in the book of Revelation. Yet people for years have
mishandled terms and titles.

eternally-gratefull · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

Abiding said:

While I agree the antichrist is not spoken of here. and I do not know why they want to insert it here, just because of a word.

I do think the man or beast of revelation is thr ultimate antichrist. (he is called many things though) he sets himself up as God. He forces a one world government, he controls the worlds finances. he promises peace, but when everyone is not looking, he brings destruction, up until he is destroyed.

I know we disagree on this. just wanted to say

tribesman · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

Being saved is a matter of belonging to God. It is, in essence, actually more a matter of what one is than what one does (get angry as much you can about this, self- and works righteousness advocates, but this is how it is). The crowd in Matthew 7:21-23 were never known by God (although they may have been "sure" they "knew" Him). They never belonged to Him.

Serious stuff this, friends.

Abiding · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

tribesman said:

I agree that Jesus said "i never knew you" So they didnt belong to
God. But at the beginning He said qualified it. "he that doeth the will of my Father" then on the latter
"depart ye workers of iniquity"

How do we fit that in?

tribesman · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

Abiding said:

The crowd spoken of in verses 22-23 didn't do the will of the Father. Notice that their whole focus was upon themselves, not God. They were boasters of self and their "experiences" and works, unto which they sat their hope - instead of placing their hopes in Christ alone. Their cry is "have WE not...". They were occupied with their own performance - works - not the work of Christ.

These people can never have submitted to the righteousness of God and they can not have trusted in Christ alone for their right standing with God. Instead they went about to establish their own righteousness. Surely that is an abomination before God and a fleshly work of iniquity.

Abiding · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

tribesman said:

Ok then the part about: "he that doeth the will of my Father" instead of in contrast to "have we not"
Is the point. And i agree.

That little bit of text sure says alot.

GreenNnice · Feb 1, 2013

Re: "They were never saved in the first place cuz they didn't have TRUE FATH." What i

tribers,, we DO belong to God. But, does God belong to you. By this I mean 'ownership,' in the sense of, will you deny Him when push comes to shove? If you do, you will be denied by Him, too.

________ Warning Against Antichrists

18 Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth. d 21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

24 See that what you have heard from the beginning remains in you. If it does, you also will remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he promised us—even eternal life.

26 I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27 As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

Children of God

28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.

29 If you know that he is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of him.

So, tribers, as you can see, there is no 'have we NOT done works,, etc. (they are WORSE deniers than pharasees, their intent was 'blasphemy' from the start) 'about the antichrists in 1 John 2:19 attitude. They never were a part of those bearing fruit of the telling of the gospel, we know this truth by verse 20, they WERE NEVER ANNOINTED , which means born of God, WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT.
_____________

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