Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[PeterJens]

If scripture was plain you wouldn't be so confused apparently. Lol... if scripture was plain it would be more difficult for you to twist it to puff yourself up.

I am not puffing anything up. I think you rather wish to not answer simple points
in scripture, suggest I am confused, and then claim my ego is involved.

How is it to find the truth about Christ you do not consider His word but rather
focus on believers. So I am meant to take you teaching seriously because you
do not follow its main tenants. If I am the one focusing on the word and Christ,
then I think it is I who am by your own standards following the Spirit of God.

I can only conclude the lusts of the flesh are not a problem for you to abide in
them.

In truth if people have no conviction of sin and a desire to repent and walk righteously,
they have left the faith and do not know Christ.

This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands.
1 John 5:2

Disobeying the commands of the Lord and going after the lusts of the flesh
will lead to judgement an death. If you cannot accept this simple teaching
you do not know Christ.

 

[PeterJens]

So are you saying that that there is no room for improvement in you? That you have arrived? It's a simple yes or no question. Can you answer it honestly and without deflection?

There will always be room for improvement, but improvement does not involve sin
or righteousness but our communion with one another and with the Lord.

Some how your view on walking with Christ is merely on rebellion or obedience not
on a relationship of empathy and care. It is like saying a family works only by the
children obeying the parents, there is no area of growth or personal expression, which
is the bulk of the interaction within families.

 

[PeterJens]

Which comes first, the spiritual understanding in our hearts or the words
that bring this understanding?

If hundreds of statements build up a complex interrelationship of constituent parts
to form a whole, the driving force is the spiritual understanding.

And the closer this understanding comes to Gods heart the more the individual
words will speak to the believer.

Take a phrase "Ask anything and I will do it for you."
What this always actually means is within the constraints of my ability and power
I will give you what you want of me. So it is a bounded promise based on what
is reasonable. But you could take it to mean an absolute declaration of power and bending of the will to the listener, but that would be insane.

But so many have dealt with scripture in this way and walked in folly.
But here is the rub. God set it up like this as a test of who we are and how
much we really care, because that is really all that counts, our acts of love
and care for those around as Children of our Saviour and Lord.

 

[dcontroversal]

Where do you get that? If a man confesses with his lips and believes in his heart that jesus died in the cross and rose from the dead and conquered sin and death and endeavors to make Jesus the Lord of his life he is made pure before God thru the blood of Jesus. It's not rocket science. You keep adding and adding and adding and adding.

Sounds like someone else who added one word.......in the garden......"NOT"

 

[Sirk]

There will always be room for improvement, but improvement does not involve sin
or righteousness but our communion with one another and with the Lord.

Some how your view on walking with Christ is merely on rebellion or obedience not
on a relationship of empathy and care. It is like saying a family works only by the
children obeying the parents, there is no area of growth or personal expression, which
is the bulk of the interaction within families.

If there is room for improvement then it's not perfect. If it's not perfect then it falls short of Gods standard. If it falls short of God's standard then God cannot be in the same room with it. You admit there is room for improvement in your character and in your life. That is a start and it is also an admission that you...in and of yourself....are far from pure.

 

[PeterJens]

What does it feel like to be under this onslaught?

Odd that believers would participate in obvious denial of the Lords word.
Odd that believers would accuse me of lying and distorting that which is clear christian belief.
Odd that believers would deny Christ righteous intention for our lives.
Odd that my very integrity is being challenged when we are talking about what Gods word
says. If Gods word does not say what I am quoting I am irrelevant.
If Gods words says what I claim, and I am walking in it, then this is actually everything.

If you skip the Gods word meaning and jump on the speaker, at least one has admitted
Gods word is plain and simple. If your target is actually innocent of the claims of sin
and failing, all is lost.

Now I am in a privileged position knowing who I am and how I behave.
Once one is compromised into daily sin, then the argument is lost.
I would also doubt not only is the argument lost, but if you do not take
seriously you spiritual state so will be your faith.

 

[Sirk]

What does it feel like to be under this onslaught?

Odd that believers would participate in obvious denial of the Lords word.
Odd that believers would accuse me of lying and distorting that which is clear christian belief.
Odd that believers would deny Christ righteous intention for our lives.
Odd that my very integrity is being challenged when we are talking about what Gods word
says. If Gods word does not say what I am quoting I am irrelevant.
If Gods words says what I claim, and I am walking in it, then this is actually everything.

If you skip the Gods word meaning and jump on the speaker, at least one has admitted
Gods word is plain and simple. If your target is actually innocent of the claims of sin
and failing, all is lost.

Now I am in a privileged position knowing who I am and how I behave.
Once one is compromised into daily sin, then the argument is lost.
I would also doubt not only is the argument lost, but if you do not take
seriously you spiritual state so will be your faith.

The pharisees were also in a privileged position and they made no bones about how they behaved. Come on dude....pull your head out of the clouds and come back to reality.

 

[Sirk]

This is getting kind of embarrassing.

 

[dcontroversal]

If there is room for improvement then it's not perfect. If it's not perfect then it falls short of Gods standard. If it falls short of God's standard then God cannot be in the same room with it. You admit there is room for improvement in your character and in your life. That is a start and it is also an admission that you...in and of yourself....are far from pure.

HAHA no doubt....

 

[PeterJens]

If there is room for improvement then it's not perfect. If it's not perfect then it falls short of Gods standard. If it falls short of God's standard then God cannot be in the same room with it. You admit there is room for improvement in your character and in your life. That is a start and it is also an admission that you...in and of yourself....are far from pure.

Wow. So your morality is now a general sense of the best in everything, so everything
less than the best is sin, no matter how you describe it.

This is not the christian faith or Gods command.

It is a serious thing to put the mark of sinfulness and judgement on such a subjective
footing. Only someone who does not know the heart of Christ and the cross would do
this. It the equivalent of tying a milestone round someones neck and drowning them.

The Lord calls us to not do evil but do what is right. Your God is an ogre with no love
or acceptance, only condemnation and guilt, without bounds or rules, just rejection
without any embracing or truth about the beauty of the individual and the preciousness
of what is within, despite the sin that has gone before which is now repented of.

 

[Sirk]

Wow. So your morality is now a general sense of the best in everything, so everything
less than the best is sin, no matter how you describe it.

This is not the christian faith or Gods command.

It is a serious thing to put the mark of sinfulness and judgement on such a subjective
footing. Only someone who does not know the heart of Christ and the cross would do
this. It the equivalent of tying a milestone round someones neck and drowning them.

The Lord calls us to not do evil but do what is right. Your God is an ogre with no love
or acceptance, only condemnation and guilt, without bounds or rules, just rejection
without any embracing or truth about the beauty of the individual and the preciousness
of what is within, despite the sin that has gone before which is now repented of.

I just told you what God's standard for righteousness is and it went right over your head. I'm starting to think that you are Jason007's long lost paternal twin. Lol

 

[dcontroversal]

I just told you what God's standard for righteousness is and it went right over your head. I'm starting to think that you are Jason007's long lost paternal twin. Lol

I hear that......there have been a few.........for sure...!

 

[Sirk]

I hear that......there have been a few.........for sure...!

I feel like I'm trying to show a paraplegic how to swim...total exercise in futility. Lol...And he's all like....as he's drowning......youre doing it wrong! Lol

 

[dcontroversal]

I feel like I'm trying to show a paraplegic how to swim...total exercise in futility. Lol...And he's all like....as he's drowning......youre doing it wrong! Lol

All I know is some on here define and personify circular reasoning.......the simplicity that is found in Jesus alludes many......!

 

[PeterJens]

The pharisees were also in a privileged position and they made no bones about how they behaved. Come on dude....pull your head out of the clouds and come back to reality.

Sirk - at least you are open about your non-christian faith.

Boundaries matter, but you have none. How love and empathy are expressed matter,
but you do not honour them. You talk about christian language but deny its meaning.

If you reject all the foundations, we are only the same in label.
Judgement day will be a massive shock to you.

You will just be totally bewildered and lost. Nothing will make sense
and the lists will stream before your eyes. You will know them all,
but the fact things are not forgiven because you never resolved them
at the foot of the cross, will just be too late.

I have seen this sidestepping of love before, but it never works.
It is done because some relationship went south a long time ago
and any resolution has long gone, but changing all the reference
points makes it all make sense again. But on that day it will not.

Was it sexual immorality, theft, lying, deceit, envy, hatred that undid
you? I know it must be something to drive this insane long rabbit hole.

We are just children before our King with simple issues of walking in
the light or staying in the darkness. If we stay in the dark, that darkness
will become eternal. But Christ offers us a way out, through His death and
resurrection, and truly starting again. It has always been this straight forward,
and letting love flow becomes this simple.

So I invite anyone who wants to walk with Christ and get right with Him for
the Kingdom of heaven is at Hand.

 

[Sully]

All I know is some on here define and personify circular reasoning.......the simplicity that is found in Jesus alludes many......!

I was thinking about this recently. How people with higher IQ's tend to have issues with the simplicity of salvation...

 

[Sirk]

I was thinking about this recently. How people with higher IQ's tend to have issues with the simplicity of salvation...

Interesting thing about that. They also struggle with depression and viewing themselves in a healthy fashion. They are either super hard on themselves or they think very highly of themselves. They have high highs and low lows. They are often "super optimistic"...... Super-Optimism – Experience has taught lifestyle criminals that they get away with most of their crimes. This leads to a growing sense of overconfidence in which they believe they are invulnerable, indomitable, and unbeatable. Ironically, this belief leads to their eventual downfall.

 

[dcontroversal]

I was thinking about this recently. How people with higher IQ's tend to have issues with the simplicity of salvation...

Probably true, but there are some exceptions....like Newton.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Probably true, but there are some exceptions....like Newton.....

I will add a little to this....in my family tree I have relatives who helped Isaac Newton write algorithms.....I was able to do grade 12 algebra at age 7....and in the Marines I was separated and offered Presidential Support...had a higher than normal IQ they said....

HAHA I was disqualified because I got into a fight my Senior year defending my younger brother from 3 dudes...they said I was prone to violence....MAKES NO SENSE....I WAS A MARINE...are not MARINES prone to violence.....what the......

 

[samuel23]

The ability to intelligently reason can certainly help with bible study as it does with understanding other things. There are quite a number of people who have no respect for honest intelligent reasoning...they are angered by it. I posted a message on what I believed to be two particular ways of bible approach and my first response was to call me a nasty name. No answer or comment on what I had written...just called me a nasty name...apparently it made that person mad because I made sense.