Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

[Grace777x70]

Yep, and some claim that because I acknowledge that I am a fully forgiven, that I want to just go around willfully sinning. Then I would be underestimating the evilness of sin and the magnitude of the sacrifice that Jesus made on my behalf.

The fact is that I don't work at not sinning, I work on my relationship with the Lord Jesus and as a result I hope to sin less frequently.
Jesus gives me the opportunity to turn away from the temptations more and more as I grow with Him.

It is not through the machinations of man/religion that I mature, but through the knowledge of His full acceptance of me that my true growth is and will be achieved.
God is concerned with my Spirit, no longer my flesh. The fact that folks always want me to focus on getting my flesh under control (usually the way they see it as right or wrong) instead of being with Jesus is scary.
For them anyway, not me, I'm cool with God, and He is cool with me. He loves me, calls me friend and brother, what more could I possibly want?

Amen...religion always gets the gospel backwards. Sin-consciousness and sin management is the fuel that stokes the fire of religion. Take that away and they are left with nothing.

We as believers in Christ and a new creation are to be Christ-conscious and thus His righteousness-conscious in the New Covenant of the grace of God in Christ.

We are to awake to the righteousness that is in us and sin not. As we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord and all that He has already done - as in a mirror - we see ourselves in Him as one spirit and the Holy Spirit transforms us as we "put on Christ" outwardly to reflect who we already are in the new creation in Christ.

This transformation is really the manifestation of the emerging new man in Christ as our minds are renewed by being transformed by the grace of God. This is working out what already is in us in Christ in our inner man of the heart - created in righteousness and holiness. Phil. 2:12-13

The Christian life is like the invisible man. People could only see him when he put clothes on. We too as we "put on Christ as Paul says to do ( the Greek word for "put on" means the putting on of a garment ) - people can see Christ living in and through us so that they can see the love and grace our Father has for them.

This brings glory to our Lord as they see His good works bearing on us - the branches. He is the Vine - we are the branches - without Him we can do nothing.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen...religion always gets the gospel backwards. Sin-consciousness and sin management is the fuel that stokes the fire of religion. Take that away and they are left with nothing.

We as believers in Christ and a new creation are to be Christ-conscious and thus His righteousness-conscious in the New Covenant of the grace of God in Christ.

We are to awake to the righteousness that is in us and sin not. As we behold the glory/goodness of the Lord and all that He has already done - as in a mirror - we see ourselves in Him as one spirit and the Holy Spirit transforms us as we "put on Christ" outwardly to reflect who we already are in the new creation in Christ.

This transformation is really the manifestation of the emerging new man in Christ as our minds are renewed by being transformed by the grace of God. This is working out what already is in us in Christ in our inner man of the heart - created in righteousness and holiness. Phil. 2:12-13

The Christian life is like the invisible man. People could only see him when he put clothes on. We too as we "put on Christ as Paul says to do ( the Greek word for "put on" means the putting on of a garment ) - people can see Christ living in and through us so that they can see the love and grace our Father has for them.

This brings glory to our Lord as they see His good works bearing on us - the branches. He is the Vine - we are the branches - without Him we can do nothing.

AMEN..........Jesus has the best sin management program available.....called his shed blood, faith and where sin abounds, grace did much more abound!

 

[truthhurts]

God is concerned with my Spirit, no longer my flesh. The fact that folks always want me to focus on getting my flesh under control (usually the way they see it as right or wrong) instead of being with Jesus is scary.
For them anyway, not me, I'm cool with God, and He is cool with me. He loves me, calls me friend and brother, what more could I possibly want?

Gal 5.24-
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


Col 3.5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,

Romans 8.1-14

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, [SUP]7 [/SUP]because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, [SUP]8 [/SUP]and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— [SUP]13 [/SUP]for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


You cannot "BE" with Jesus unless you crucify the flesh.....these few passages and many others I did not post prove this out....Jesus does not want weekend visits, he wants full custody of you....it is not enough that Jesus is Savior he has to be Lord over all.

Your statements completely make the case against grace only teachers....The flesh or mind!!?!?!? heck no..no need to renew it or offer it as a holy and living sacrifice acceptable to God....God don't care about those things....he ain't worried about your flesh or mind........its only a spirit thang bro!

This is grace perverted to the point someone actually really believes the mind and flesh don't matter to God any more.....

Jesus gave all...all give some...some give all....what are you willing to give him?

 

[Sully]

Which sin causes Him to turn you into an orphan?

 

[dcontroversal]

Which sin causes Him to turn you into an orphan?

NONE.....He may whip our butt (chastisement) but NOT one will cause us to lose eternal life and salvation in Jesus....all who believe they can lose it, were never saved to begin with (probably) and HEBREWS states that if it can be lost...no one can get it back....seeing how ALL sin and HAVE SIN....their own dogma means they are lost on their way to a devils hell!

 

[truthhurts]

NONE.....He may whip our butt (chastisement) but NOT one will cause us to lose eternal life and salvation in Jesus....all who believe they can lose it, were never saved to begin with (probably) and HEBREWS states that if it can be lost...no one can get it back....seeing how ALL sin and HAVE SIN....their own dogma means they are lost on their way to a devils hell!

God does not remember your SIN.....why do you?

 

[Grace777x70]

The truth is we do not crucify the flesh. The flesh has already been crucified because of what Christ has done. The Greek text actually says that those who are in Christ have the flesh already crucified.

Galatians 5:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Have crucified is in the Aorist indicative tense which is a one time even that happened in the past.

How is this flesh crucified? By the circumcision of Christ where He cut away the body of the flesh - this is where God cut away the inner man in Christ from the flesh.

This spiritual circumcision is done by the Holy Spirit who then seals us in our inner man from the power of sin that is still in our flesh. The body itself is not evil but it has a virus like substance in it called "sin" which has a voice that speaks to us.

The body is dead because of sin but the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Rom. 8:10

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Paul says in Romans 8:9-10 that we are not in the flesh anymore but in the spirit. This is why Paul said after "those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh" to walk by the spirit now so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

We are still responsible with what we do in these bodies and the understanding that we are not in the flesh anymore and that this sin that is still in the flesh has no dominion over us now. Romans 7:17-23 - The sin that is in our members. This knowing that we have died with Christ on the cross and were raised to newness of life releases the life of Christ in us because we live unto God now.

We are now to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God in Christ. Rom. 6:11-12

Knowing that we are not under the dominion of the sin that is in the flesh makes us live a holier life because we see what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection and that we too died with Him and rose with Him.

Here is an excellent video of teaching that answers the question - Why do we still sin?

The understanding of this has been a great blessing to me and seeing Christ's work "for" me and "as" me as I beheld Him has changed my life drastically and sinning that was dominating me before has fallen off of me effortlessly by His life in me. The Spirit of grace operating in me transforming me.

[video=youtube;Bi-oq5qBkWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA[/video]

 

[limey410]

Gal 5.24-
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


Col 3.5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore consider the members of your earthly body as dead to immorality, impurity, passion, evil desire, and greed, which amounts to idolatry. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For it is because of these things that the wrath of God will come upon the sons of disobedience,

Romans 8.1-14

8 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. [SUP]5 [/SUP]For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. [SUP]6 [/SUP]For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, [SUP]7 [/SUP]because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, [SUP]8 [/SUP]and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh— [SUP]13 [/SUP]for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.


You cannot "BE" with Jesus unless you crucify the flesh.....these few passages and many others I did not post prove this out....Jesus does not want weekend visits, he wants full custody of you....it is not enough that Jesus is Savior he has to be Lord over all.

Your statements completely make the case against grace only teachers....The flesh or mind!!?!?!? heck no..no need to renew it or offer it as a holy and living sacrifice acceptable to God....God don't care about those things....he ain't worried about your flesh or mind........its only a spirit thang bro!

This is grace perverted to the point someone actually really believes the mind and flesh don't matter to God any more.....

Jesus gave all...all give some...some give all....what are you willing to give him?

Paul is specifically speaking of living in the Spirit, not by or in the flesh. The crucifixion of my flesh is my faith and trust in the finished work of what Christ did on the cross. Understanding as a result of that, the spirit of God dwells within me. Its not the flesh.

I have full reliance and trust in the Lord Jesus.

Then I walk in the abundance of what He has given to me as an inheritance, Himself. I belong to Him, I am His possession, it is not predicated on anything that I do or don't do with my flesh. it is what He has done on my behalf to fully resolve that issue. Also I most certainly did not say God is not concerned with my mind. Only my flesh. The law concerned itself with the flesh, indulgence or restrain thereof, Grace granted me everything I need for life and godliness through the indwelling presence of God.

 

[truthhurts]

The truth is we do not crucify the flesh. The flesh has already been crucified because of what Christ has done. The Greek text actually says that those who are in Christ have the flesh already crucified.

Galatians 5:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

[SUP]25 [/SUP] If we live by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.

Have crucified is in the Aorist indicative tense which is a one time even that happened in the past.

How is this flesh crucified? By the circumcision of Christ where He cut away the body of the flesh - this is where God cut away the inner man in Christ from the flesh.

This spiritual circumcision is done by the Holy Spirit who then seals us in our inner man from the power of sin that is still in our flesh. The body itself is not evil but it has a virus like substance in it called "sin" which has a voice that speaks to us.

The body is dead because of sin but the spirit is alive because of righteousness. Rom. 8:10

Colossians 2:11 (NASB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;

Paul says in Romans 8:9-10 that we are not in the flesh anymore but in the spirit. This is why Paul said after "those who belong to Christ have crucified the flesh" to walk by the spirit now so that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.

We are still responsible with what we do in these bodies and the understanding that we are not in the flesh anymore and that this sin that is still in the flesh has no dominion over us now. Romans 7:17-23 - The sin that is in our members. This knowing that we have died with Christ on the cross and were raised to newness of life releases the life of Christ in us because we live unto God now.

We are now to reckon ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God in Christ. Rom. 6:11-12

Knowing that we are not under the dominion of the sin that is in the flesh makes us live a holier life because we see what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection and that we too died with Him and rose with Him.

Here is an excellent video of teaching that answers the question - Why do we still sin?

The understanding of this has been a great blessing to me and seeing Christ's work "for" me and "as" me as I beheld Him has changed my life drastically and sinning that was dominating me before has fallen off of me effortlessly by His life in me. The Spirit of grace operating in me transforming me.

[video=youtube;Bi-oq5qBkWA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi-oq5qBkWA[/video]

Crucifying the flesh is a daily part of progressive sanctification is it not? All of us have something we have not crucified ourselves on.....

 

[truthhurts]

Paul is specifically speaking of living in the Spirit, not by or in the flesh. The crucifixion of my flesh is my faith and trust in the finished work of what Christ did on the cross. Understanding as a result of that, the spirit of God dwells within me. Its not the flesh.

I have full reliance and trust in the Lord Jesus.

Then I walk in the abundance of what He has given to me as an inheritance, Himself. I belong to Him, I am His possession, it is not predicated on anything that I do or don't do with my flesh. it is what He has done on my behalf to fully resolve that issue. Also I most certainly did not say God is not concerned with my mind. Only my flesh. The law concerned itself with the flesh, indulgence or restrain thereof, Grace came to give me everything I need for life and godliness through the indwelling presence of God.

We may be saying the same thing in different ways.....one must remember that true repentance involves surrendering your whole spirit, soul and flesh/body to him and his control.

 

[limey410]

Crucifying the flesh is a daily part of progressive sanctification is it not? All of us have something we have not crucified ourselves on.....

What is progressive sanctification? You can't be progressively set apart. You are or you are not!

 

[limey410]

We may be saying the same thing in different ways.....one must remember that true repentance involves surrendering your whole spirit, soul and flesh/body to him and his control.

I think we might be Except the control part. I don't fully believe that God exercises His ability to control all of the time. If He did we wouldn't really be choosing. But that is a whole other pandoras box.

 

[Grace777x70]

Crucifying the flesh is a daily part of progressive sanctification is it not? All of us have something we have not crucified ourselves on.....

No - not really altho I have heard that all my religious life and thought that for years and it never really worked for me. The knowing of this below truth has set me free and it works for sure. Jesus said you shall know the truth and this knowing of the truth will make you free.

Knowing Christ's work on the cross and resurrection and that I too have died with Him and rose with Him has done exactly that for me and I am full of joy now.

It's in knowing that the flesh is already crucified in Christ and that it has no more dominion over you - that is what the daily reality is. Fighting the good fight of faith. The faith is what Christ has already done.

It's in knowing and acknowledging the below as being true is what the daily living is all about and this releases His life in me to reflect outwardly in behavior who I am in Christ in my inner man of the heart which ahs been created in righteousness and holiness.

Romans 6:5-12 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him


[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[SUP]12 [/SUP] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

If you have time and are so inclined - give a listen to the video and then PM me what you think. I would appreciate your thoughts on it. Thanks. I realize that this is different then what we have heard in our past.

 

[truthhurts]

No - not really altho I have heard that all my religious life and thought that for years.

It's in knowing that the flesh is already crucified in Christ and that it has no more dominion over you - that is what the daily reality is. Fighting the good fight of faith. The faith is what Christ has already done.

It's in knowing and acknowledging the below as being true is what the daily living is all about.

Romans 6:5-12 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

[SUP]6 [/SUP] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

[SUP]7 [/SUP] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

[SUP]8 [/SUP] Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him


[SUP]9 [/SUP] Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.

[SUP]10 [/SUP] For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.

[SUP]11 [/SUP] Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[SUP]12 [/SUP] Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

If you have time and are so inclined - give a listen to the video and then PM me what you think. I would appreciate your thoughts on it. Thanks. I realize that this is different then what we have heard in our past.

Are you going down the road to sinless perfection in spirit, soul and body here? We agree that the old man was crucified with Christ and I am new creation and that is my new identity.....My spirit is made that way instantly but not my soul or flesh....the soul and flesh/body is a progressive walk...

 

[truthhurts]

I think we might be Except the control part. I don't fully believe that God exercises His ability to control all of the time. If He did we wouldn't really be choosing. But that is a whole other pandoras box.

I am not explaining this well and yeah we don't want to get into the Pandoras box that is predestination and no free will nonsense....have a good evening...

 

[Grace777x70]

Are you going down the road to sinless perfection in spirit, soul and body here? We agree that the old man was crucified with Christ and I am new creation and that is my new identity.....My spirit is made that way instantly but not my soul or flesh....the soul and flesh/body is a progressive walk...

I agree...that my soul needs to be renewed to the truths and I do not believe in sinless perfection in the flesh. You can ask anyone on here. I am constantly attacking that craziness. We need to walk out in this life what is in us in Christ now and that is a life-time journey which involves repentance as I see new truths about the love and grace of our Lord's work for us.

I do believe in the redemption of the body when Christ comes back and my soul will reflect what is in my spirit when I get to be with the Lord. Until then - my soul reflects what I believe. If I am scared even if it isn't real - my emotions will go haywire on me. If my mind is renewed to the truth - then I experience the peace of Christ that is in my new creation

 

[dcontroversal]

God does not remember your SIN.....why do you?

No sense in responding to this post....the bible covers sin in a believer...LIKE the OP....GOD only chastens CHILDREN....go study and then come back and make a statement that adds to the thread....I for one am tired of combative statements that reject the multitude of verses that deal with the issue of sin......

 

[wsblind]

Yep, and there are so many Christians that want to wrestle it back and take it all upon their shoulders.
Religious pride I suppose. I feel for them (sometimes get angry and frustrated by them).
So many believers turn from the faith because after they are saved, someone tells them that they are not good enough, or don't do enough, don't pray enough, don't read their bible enough, don't go to church enough, don't serve enough, don't do it all right enough...and then when they've had enough folks look around and ask what happened??? They were won by a message of truth and love and grace and then dragged back to the heavy burdens of the new law, really a law-lite, pick and choose law.
So sad, yet some are still gutting it out for God.
Showing us how hard it is, and how hard they are working at it, instead of just trusting and resting in the mercy and Grace of an AWESOME ALL POWERFUL God. Who already did it all, so we could have everything we need for life and godliness.

This is exactly what I am witnessing around me. Believers put under so much bondage that they throw up their hands and leave. They aren't denying Christ, they are denying the religion and bondage that the MAJORITY teach.

 

[truthhurts]

No sense in responding to this post....the bible covers sin in a believer...LIKE the OP....GOD only chastens CHILDREN....go study and then come back and make a statement that adds to the thread....I for one am tired of combative statements that reject the multitude of verses that deal with the issue of sin......

What is combative about God's truth found in Hebrews 8......

Maybe you will respond to my post next time if I am more careful next time to use the past verb tense of the subject conjugated with the adverb, that remains in place by the adjective describing the infinitive agreement structure of the dangling
participle....

 

[truthhurts]

I agree...that my soul needs to be renewed to the truths and I do not believe in sinless perfection in the flesh. You can ask anyone on here. I am constantly attacking that craziness. We need to walk out in this life what is in us in Christ now and that is a life-time journey which involves repentance as I see new truths about the love and grace of our Lord's work for us.

I do believe in the redemption of the body when Christ comes back and my soul will reflect what is in my spirit when I get to be with the Lord. Until then - my soul reflects what I believe. If I am scared even if it isn't real - my emotions will go haywire on me. If my mind is renewed to the truth - then I experience the peace of Christ that is in my new creation

thanks we see it eye to eye