Those with free will created evil?

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1

1still_waters

Guest
#1
#1
I'm still weighing out how evil came about.
Some say that ultimately God created evil, because he is THE creator.
Everything ultimately came from him, say many.
But I'm wondering if such an assertion misses the point.

I'm thinking that when God created free will, he created an environment where evil became a possibility, but that doesn't mean he created it.

Let me use an analogy.

Let's say I give someone a canvas, paint brush, and ten different colors of paint.
I tell that someone they can paint any picture they want, except a cat!

Well they go on and take all those tools I gave them, and guess what...
THEY PAINT A CAT!

Am I the creator of the cat painting because I gave the person the painting tools?
NO!
They took the tools I gave them and used it wrong.

Likewise, God isn't\may not be the creator of evil simply because those with free will used the tools of free will wrongly.

The tools of free will carry the ability to make many things. One of those things was evil.
The painting tools had the ability to make many paintings. One of those was of a cat.

God is no more the creator of evil, than I am the creator of a cat painting in my little hypothetical situation.

Thoughts?
 
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K

kenisyes

Guest
#2
#2
True love will continue to love regardless of response. For God to manifest His true loving nature, required there be creatures who can say no. Those creatures must be able to distinguish God from "not-God" in order to make that choice. "Not-God" is what we call evil.
 
Red33

Red33

Banned
#3
Jun 24, 2010
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#3
Anything that God does, even in creating evil or an angel that He knew through foreknowledge would stir up a rebellion against His throne, was done to glorify Himself. That is very difficult for the natural and carnal mind of man to grasp without accusing God of being self centered. There is only one God and besides Him there is no other, so whatever He does or creates is for His glory and His alone, which includes His only begotten Son. The first commandment given to Moses shows us something of what God thinks of Himself as the God of all flesh.
 
H

HelenTn

Guest
#4
#4
this qn also bother me longtime ago, i think God giving us chances (in freewill) to turn to Him although we are fallen man, it doesn't mean He is the Creator of evil too
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#5
#5
:) THERE'S THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS " GOD REGRETED THAT HE CREATED MAN, FOR MAN CONTINUALLY THINKETH EVIL IN HIS HEART. I AGREE WITH YOU THAT THE LORD GOD CAN'T CREATE EVIL. IF YOU WATCH SOME OF THOSE HORRENDOUS EVIL MOVIES ON TV. THE HUMAN IMAGINATION CANNOT EVEN PERCIEVE THE THOUGHTS OF THE EVIL THAT GOES THROUGH THE MIND OF THE WICKED. NOT ONLY NOT MOVIES BUT THE REAL MURDEROUS THINGS IN LIFE. I BELIEVE THAT THE LORD CANNOT THINK THESE THOUGHTS FOR HE IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE DARKNESS OF EVIL. FREE WILL, MAN DECIDES WHAT HE WANTS, EITHER RED OR BLUE, PURITY OF EVIL. I GO WITH THE SCRIPTURE THAT SAYS, MAN CONTINUALLY THINKETH EVIL. SO SINCE WERE MADE IN SUCH A WAY, I THINK IT COMES FROM THE {MIND HEART} WITHOUT JESUS. I THINK WHEN JESUS BECAME OUR REDEEMER, WE GET A NEW MIND IN CHRIST. I ALSO THINK IT'S THE WAY THE LORD GOD CREATED ALL THINGS. A FREE CHOICE, IF WE DIDN'T WE WOULD NEVER WANT TO ACCEPT JESUS OR CHANGE. IT'S THE OPPOSITE OF WITCH CRAFT WHICH IS A FORCE TO CONTROL ONE'S WILL TO DO WHAT THE OTHER REALLY HAS NO STREGNTH AGAINST IT, A CONTROL. IT'S A FREEDOM, AND PROBABLY THE ANGELS ALSO WERE CREATED AS FREE WILL, GOD IS NOT A TYRANT TO PUT SOMEONE IN CHAINS, AND WANT TO CONTROL HIS CREATURES, SATAN DOES THIS, HE PUTS PEOPLE IN BONDAGE AND WANTS TO CONTROL HUMANS TO CONTINUE TO BE HIS SLAVES. BUT THIS IS NOT PINPOINTED JUST MY INSPIRATION. I KNOW I WONDERED ONCE WHY GOD DOSN'T TELL PEOPLE AN EVEN BELIEVERS WHAT A MURDER IS THINKING, BECAUSE GOD CANNOT ENTER THAT DARKNESS TO THINK THOSE EVIL THOUGHTS, FOR HE IS LOVE AND LIGHT, ALL PURITY. WE CAN BE WARNED IN DIFFERENT WAYS, BUT GOD NEVER THINKS EVIL, MAN DOES. THANKS FOR LETTING ME SHARE MY THOUGHTS. :)
 
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J

jkalyna

Guest
#6
#6
:D BUT THEN AGAIN, I WOULDN'T PUSH IT, WE COULD TRY TO FIGURE IT TILL THE COWS COME HOME, JUST TO REMEMBER, THE WORD SAYS, " NO MAN KNOWS THE MIND OF GOD". I JUST WANT TO THINK ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT IS PURE, AND NOT ABOUT EVIL. JUST SAYING................:cool:
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#7
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#7
Pride is a perversion of righteous glory.
God didn't think it up.
Lucifer can't create, so he does the only thing he can do, pervert the truth,-(lie).
Couldn't God have made him so he couldn't have done that? - (Have freewill)
It has to do with God wanting companionship and not robots.
God would have rather had all His creation love Him, and there never being a falling away.
God did not create pride, - (the perversion of the gifts, talents, and glory He gave satan).
All of which were giving to show back to God, to (as a friend) direct them back to God - - - in Love.
But Lucifer turned this Holy Love back in on himself; and this Agape Love turned inward(back at one's self), became pride.
This is why it is the chiefest of sins,......It was the first.
Why did God give us the ability to turn this love meant for Him back on ourselves?
Because He doesn't want robots as friends. - But He did not create pride. (Nor any other perverting of His gifts - 'sin').
Even animals and fish have a form of 'freewill'.
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#8
#8
:) THAT'S SO BEAUTIFULLY AND TRUTHFULLY SAID. PRIDE WILL KEEP BLESSINGS FROM US. PRIDE WILL KEEP A LOT OF THINGS FROM US. I ALWAYS THINK OF A STORY OF A WOMEN WHO LIVED NEXT DOOR TO A CHURCH THAT WASN'T HER DENONMINATION. SHE HAD NO FRIENDS, NO HELP, NO FOOD. THE PEOPLE AT THE CHURCH NEXT DOOR TO HER OFFERED TO HELP HER WITH FOOD, ETC. OH NO SHE SAID TO SHE WOULDN'T THINK OF IT, WHEN SHE COULD SHE TRAVELED 2 HOURS TO GET AWAY FROM THAT CHURCH TO GO TO ANOTHER ONE, TILL THE CAR BROKE, AND TO THINK OF TAKING FOOD FROM THEM. NEVER. THE MORAL OF THE STORY IS THAT, PRIDE BOOTS US OUT OF BLESSINGS. :D
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#9
#9
I think you guys are onto something :)
 
J

jkalyna

Guest
#10
#10
IT'S ALRIGHT YOU COULD CATCH UP. YOU WON'T BE LEFT BEHIND.:):p
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#11
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#11
Pride-(the original falling short), was nothing more or less than the perfect love of God given to His creation being turned
back onto itself. This is why satan holds sway over the 'carnal' nature of man.
God didn't create it-(selflove,).....if He did, He wouldn't have created freewill moral agents to give Love to.
(He would have been satisfied with Himself). As all the children of pride are.
We all have a measure of it.
This is the fall. It is not that we have to sin,-(as in predetermined);
it is that we are given to a nature of 'looking out for number 1'.
This comes not from God. For He IS the true Number One - the 'Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End'; and He not only gave us perfect paradise; but when we fell, He made Himself in the form of a man (lower than the angels); and came to rescue us.
Truly if He created pride He wouldn't have made Himself the most smitten-('whose visage was marred more than any man'), to save us.
'But a bruised reed He wouldn't break, and a smoking flax He wouldn't quench; until He gave judgement unto victory'!!!
These are not the acts of a self proud being.
 
resurrection33

resurrection33

Banned
#12
Dec 19, 2009
27,513
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#12
I believe evil comes because of selfishness. As we grow older, we are supposed to become less and less selfish. At some point we should have learned not to be selfish at all.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#13
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
58
0
#13
It's not about learning.
As we grow older we lose our sex drive also.
Does that mean we are becoming wiser?
No.
We are either in Christ or not in Him.
There a plenty of 'worldly' wise old people......
who have never accepted Christ.
 
B

BarlyGurl

Guest
#14
#14
As we grow older we lose our sex drive also.


Some are going to protest that "collective" WE :eek:
 
Jon4TheCross

Jon4TheCross

Senior Member
#15
Oct 19, 2012
1,864
7
38
#15
I'll simply say that God created a being that had the choice to be a motivator, or be motivated. God did not create the motivator of evil, and God did not motivate the creation of evil.
Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
Jas 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

God did not create the father of evil, and we know that God is not the father of evil.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Also, there was no cause given by God for evil to exist.

Joh 15:24 If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
Joh 15:25 But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.

Clean is Good, and neautral is clean (just like the canvas, paint, and tools to paint). Thanks for the posting of this thread.
 
RickShafer

RickShafer

Banned
#16
Sep 8, 2012
4,367
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#16
This is another way people are beguiled.
They think because they are getting older and can't fight like they used too; or can't have sex like they used too; or can't draw vain attention like they used too(through their looks or fleshly abilities);......that somehow that makes them closer to God.
No it doesn't.
When they get too old to fight or fornicate,......if the Spirit of God isn't in them,.....they just get religious.
Religiosity is the last stone to fall.
Religion doesn't get you any closer to heaven than brawling or balling did when you were young.
Just a different pacifier.
 
U

unclefester

Guest
#19
#19
RickShafer said:
This is another way people are beguiled.
They think because they are getting older and can't fight like they used too; or can't have sex like they used too; or can't draw vain attention like they used too(through their looks or fleshly abilities);......that somehow that makes them closer to God.
No it doesn't.
When they get too old to fight or fornicate,......if the Spirit of God isn't in them,.....they just get religious.
Religiosity is the last stone to fall.
Religion doesn't get you any closer to heaven than brawling or balling did when you were young.
Just a different pacifier.
Click to expand...
I think I understand your point Rick. I've got a friend here on this site (he's old) who's always offering up sweets ... and more sweets. Yes ... it all makes perfect sense now. He's replaced his libido with brownies. :cool:
 
R

RoBoT-7x153-

Guest
#20
#20
There is no free will, read carefully.

James 1: 18; Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

John 1: 13; Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 5: 21; For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

Romans 9: 16; So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

John 6: 39; And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

Psalm 110: 3; Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Ezekiel 36: 9-12; For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown: And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded: And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that I am the Lord. Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, and thou shalt be their inheritance, and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

Jeremiah 4: 6; Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the north, and a great destruction.

Jeremiah 4: 27-28; For thus hath the Lord said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be black; because I have spoken it, I have purposed it, and will not repent, neither will I turn back from it.

Daniel 4: 35; And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

John 6: 44; No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6: 63-66; It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.
 
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