"Thou shall not kill" or "Do not murder"?
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Jesus and the sinners, nuff said? God and Satan, nuff said... How many people did Jesus kill? Can He kill? I do not know? What about Saul and Paul? Whu did Saul kill the innocent, and yet Paul let the guilty punish him so many times? I do not know what it is that would not let me believe Jesus is not a "killer". And I know not what it is that tells me the sinners are already dead in their sins, so they CANNOT be alive, even though they kill, destroy and steal. Nope different sides of the fence I believe.
Like God says do not kill, then the next oreder is to seek and destroy! Maybe there is something hidden in this. What about Jesus I always ask, why did He not ask a single man to stand up and do not be killed! In stead He said ...They will even kill you and think they do God a favour... maybe like Israel did with Jesus? Did they not kill Him and thought they did it for God? Yes they did.
I am sorry my Lord says killing is "darkness" and he is LIGHT. And the light and HAS NO COMMUNION!
Can anybody quote Jesus sayin ...KILL THIS OR THAT? Is there a verse where JESUS said... Go and kill this or that?
Like God says do not kill, then the next oreder is to seek and destroy! Maybe there is something hidden in this. What about Jesus I always ask, why did He not ask a single man to stand up and do not be killed! In stead He said ...They will even kill you and think they do God a favour... maybe like Israel did with Jesus? Did they not kill Him and thought they did it for God? Yes they did.
I am sorry my Lord says killing is "darkness" and he is LIGHT. And the light and HAS NO COMMUNION!
Can anybody quote Jesus sayin ...KILL THIS OR THAT? Is there a verse where JESUS said... Go and kill this or that?
You mean like when the Son of God was in the hands of the evil ones? Or when He was in mortal peril of another? I guess we should then die a death to honor God, like Peter, and Stephan and all the prophets before us, and like the World ALWAYS will kill the righteouss! Jesus gave us the gaurentee, we should not fear those that can harm ONLY the body.
Even if they kill us for our righteousness, they CANNOT harm the peace or the holiness about us! They tried with our Jesus, and failed, and they will fail again when they try with us or our families! It is this peace we have that makes us different than any other religeon. They can kill us, and yet we praise out God. And we do not stand p and kill, no matter what! We follow our example Jesus even into DEATH to the flesh, but they cannot harm the Spirit or steal the peace and Faith!
I cannot find one holy person that was ever sorry that he was harmed for the cause of righteousness, they ALL took it as a blessing! What and awesome God we serve!
Even if they kill us for our righteousness, they CANNOT harm the peace or the holiness about us! They tried with our Jesus, and failed, and they will fail again when they try with us or our families! It is this peace we have that makes us different than any other religeon. They can kill us, and yet we praise out God. And we do not stand p and kill, no matter what! We follow our example Jesus even into DEATH to the flesh, but they cannot harm the Spirit or steal the peace and Faith!
I cannot find one holy person that was ever sorry that he was harmed for the cause of righteousness, they ALL took it as a blessing! What and awesome God we serve!
duewell,
Thanks for such an excellent reply! Permit me to edit it (mostly grammar)...
We should not kill nor should we murder. Does it matter what justification one uses for ending another's life? Is that something a killer should take before God in their judgment? Any killer could rationalize or justify why they took someone's life. One could do the same to justify almost any sins they commit. We do not justify our sins, we repent of them! Jesus said, "By the same measure in which we judge, so too shall we be judged".
When I hear this kind of question, I think of Moses. When God decided that he would take the first-born sons of Egypt, he sent an angel to do His work. None of us, except the returned Christ, are here to dispense God's justice - God and His Christ are quite capable of doing that.
Will any of us stand before God (except the Christ) and justify ourselves and our actions? Our duty is to pray for the unrepentant sinner, in the hopes that God will open their heart and lead them to repentance. If anything, we should do all we can to prolong the life of an unrepentant sinner. We know the judgment they will face and do not wish for any to be damned - we pray for them to 'see the light'. As Christians, we follow and enforce God's laws on ourselves in the hopes that our example will lead others to do the same. It is not our job to enforce God's law on others, God and His Christ are far more capable than us to do so. Have faith in God's/Christ's justice. And understand, in the end, all things serve GOD/GOOD.
-Duewell (edited by Brad Watson, Miami)
Thanks for such an excellent reply! Permit me to edit it (mostly grammar)...
We should not kill nor should we murder. Does it matter what justification one uses for ending another's life? Is that something a killer should take before God in their judgment? Any killer could rationalize or justify why they took someone's life. One could do the same to justify almost any sins they commit. We do not justify our sins, we repent of them! Jesus said, "By the same measure in which we judge, so too shall we be judged".
When I hear this kind of question, I think of Moses. When God decided that he would take the first-born sons of Egypt, he sent an angel to do His work. None of us, except the returned Christ, are here to dispense God's justice - God and His Christ are quite capable of doing that.
Will any of us stand before God (except the Christ) and justify ourselves and our actions? Our duty is to pray for the unrepentant sinner, in the hopes that God will open their heart and lead them to repentance. If anything, we should do all we can to prolong the life of an unrepentant sinner. We know the judgment they will face and do not wish for any to be damned - we pray for them to 'see the light'. As Christians, we follow and enforce God's laws on ourselves in the hopes that our example will lead others to do the same. It is not our job to enforce God's law on others, God and His Christ are far more capable than us to do so. Have faith in God's/Christ's justice. And understand, in the end, all things serve GOD/GOOD.
-Duewell (edited by Brad Watson, Miami)
Jesus proved "Thou shall not kill"
Scott,
In all due respect, the Orthodox Study Bible is a poor version. I'll try to send them a letter in order to correct this HUGE mistake! I ask that you and others do the same. In the meantime, you can just turn to Ex 20:13 & Matthew, and scratch out "murder" and write in "kill". I often do this when I encounter poor Bible versions - Jesus would do the same.
- Brad Watson, Miami
teacher
Scott,
In all due respect, the Orthodox Study Bible is a poor version. I'll try to send them a letter in order to correct this HUGE mistake! I ask that you and others do the same. In the meantime, you can just turn to Ex 20:13 & Matthew, and scratch out "murder" and write in "kill". I often do this when I encounter poor Bible versions - Jesus would do the same.
- Brad Watson, Miami
teacher
S
There is such a thing as a just war. For example, WWII, we could have not fought and just let Hitler over run Europe and continue hist Holocaust, but by fighting him we prevented much death from taking place. Anyway it is much better translated "Thou shall not murder" since that is what was intended when the commandment was written.
Now you sound like the Muslims with their GIAD... No my friend, Hitler would have been stopped. God said that NOT a single man will EVER rule thewhole world again, like in old times, so no our little faith drived us to make sure God can keep His Word.
No all wars are bad. In WWII MANY women were raped, children died and ALL becasue of the fighting of MEN that does not even get to the front. They ALL SEND MEN to fight for THEIR beliefs and strifes.
I personally know my father did not wan to go to war, but they were forced to go. If the soldiers all just refused to obey EVIL men there will NEVER be war. If ALL people in the world refuse to kill, there will be no wars. They kill eachother becasue their rulers tell them too, not GOD!
Get this... Jesus has NEVER told any man to kill! NEVER! And He NEVER will! If someone wants to take your life, let him, he does you a favour... He lets you go to Father!
No all wars are bad. In WWII MANY women were raped, children died and ALL becasue of the fighting of MEN that does not even get to the front. They ALL SEND MEN to fight for THEIR beliefs and strifes.
I personally know my father did not wan to go to war, but they were forced to go. If the soldiers all just refused to obey EVIL men there will NEVER be war. If ALL people in the world refuse to kill, there will be no wars. They kill eachother becasue their rulers tell them too, not GOD!
Get this... Jesus has NEVER told any man to kill! NEVER! And He NEVER will! If someone wants to take your life, let him, he does you a favour... He lets you go to Father!
S
How can I phrase this? War is constant and war is a fact of life, as long as man dwells upon the Earth we will continue to shed each others blood. In fact, war is what humanity is best at.
But you do have the wrong idea about my position. I despise war and so does the Catholic Church (cue the Crusades comments), but both I and the RCC recognize the necessity of war. If I can liberate a nation from a tyrannical despot like Hitler by going to war, I would be a fool not to take up arms. The very act of refusing to take up arms to save a man is a sin, because by not defending the innocent you have harmed them, by leaving them in the hands of despots you have harmed them, and by letting them go to their deaths because of the insanity of a despot you have harmed them.
To refuse to defend the innocent, by force if necessary, is the worst sin of inaction a man can commit, it is even worse than murder, because every innocent that is slain because of a refusal to take up arms is more blood on the head of those who refused to defend them.
What we do not do can damn us just as quickly as that which we do.
The fact that crimes were committed in a war does not change the fact that either the war was just or not to begin with.
My grandfather went to war joyfully, knowing full well the evil of the man he was setting off to defeat.
No he didn't, but we are commanded many times in scripture to defend the weak and the innocent, and sometimes that means going to war.
But you do have the wrong idea about my position. I despise war and so does the Catholic Church (cue the Crusades comments), but both I and the RCC recognize the necessity of war. If I can liberate a nation from a tyrannical despot like Hitler by going to war, I would be a fool not to take up arms. The very act of refusing to take up arms to save a man is a sin, because by not defending the innocent you have harmed them, by leaving them in the hands of despots you have harmed them, and by letting them go to their deaths because of the insanity of a despot you have harmed them.
To refuse to defend the innocent, by force if necessary, is the worst sin of inaction a man can commit, it is even worse than murder, because every innocent that is slain because of a refusal to take up arms is more blood on the head of those who refused to defend them.
What we do not do can damn us just as quickly as that which we do.
The fact that crimes were committed in a war does not change the fact that either the war was just or not to begin with.
My grandfather went to war joyfully, knowing full well the evil of the man he was setting off to defeat.
No he didn't, but we are commanded many times in scripture to defend the weak and the innocent, and sometimes that means going to war.
God, via Samuel, to Saul:
1 Sam 15:3) Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
This was many hundreds of years after the ten commandments were given.
And after Saul disobeyed by NOT completely destroying them, but saving their king Agag alive:
1 Sam 15:33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
Killing can at times be justified. Murder cannot.
1 Sam 15:3) Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
This was many hundreds of years after the ten commandments were given.
And after Saul disobeyed by NOT completely destroying them, but saving their king Agag alive:
1 Sam 15:33 And Samuel said, As thy sword hath made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless among women. And Samuel hewed Agag in pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
Killing can at times be justified. Murder cannot.
Jesus answered this question, right?
There are no "serious problems" with the KJV, Revised Standard Version (RSV), and other Bible versions having "Thou shall not kill" as the 6th Commandment. This only applies to God commanding us not to kill other humans; killing animals for food has always been permissible to God.
As far as "those Israelites going into Canaan", ya, that was c. 1451 BC - 1,445 years before the birth of Y'shua74* and add another 600 years before the birth of Muhammad74. So for the last 1,300 years, we have worship of the One God(7_4) by the Jewish74 people, Christians, and Muslims, yet, there is alot of killing of God's children by His other children going on! How to solve this conundrum? What is God telling us today? "Thou shall not kill".
Around 29 AD, Jesus74 the Messiah74 was asked, "Which one of God's Commandments is the most important?" IESVS74 answered by quoting the Golden Rule, which technically isn't one of the 10 Commandments or the extended "613 Commandments" of Leviticus. However, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is thee coolest philosophical quote ever and certainly answers the question posed here as "Thou shall not kill"!Right?
To further confirm Jesus' belief in "Thou shall not kill", he said, "Turn the other cheek", "Those that live by the sword, die by the sword", "This is my commandment, that ye love one another as I haved loved you".
*Simple74 English74 Gematria74
- Brad Watson, Miami
teacher
http://7seals.yuku.com
There are no "serious problems" with the KJV, Revised Standard Version (RSV), and other Bible versions having "Thou shall not kill" as the 6th Commandment. This only applies to God commanding us not to kill other humans; killing animals for food has always been permissible to God.
As far as "those Israelites going into Canaan", ya, that was c. 1451 BC - 1,445 years before the birth of Y'shua74* and add another 600 years before the birth of Muhammad74. So for the last 1,300 years, we have worship of the One God(7_4) by the Jewish74 people, Christians, and Muslims, yet, there is alot of killing of God's children by His other children going on! How to solve this conundrum? What is God telling us today? "Thou shall not kill".
Around 29 AD, Jesus74 the Messiah74 was asked, "Which one of God's Commandments is the most important?" IESVS74 answered by quoting the Golden Rule, which technically isn't one of the 10 Commandments or the extended "613 Commandments" of Leviticus. However, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is thee coolest philosophical quote ever and certainly answers the question posed here as "Thou shall not kill"!Right?
To further confirm Jesus' belief in "Thou shall not kill", he said, "Turn the other cheek", "Those that live by the sword, die by the sword", "This is my commandment, that ye love one another as I haved loved you".
*Simple74 English74 Gematria74
- Brad Watson, Miami
teacher
http://7seals.yuku.com
I think that neither “Don’t kill,” or, “Don’t murder,” tell you everything you need to know.
I have no problem people killing in defense of themselves or those they care about, though one might question how often it is necessary to do that. Therefore, you might conclude I am in favor of a rule stating “Do not murder.”
However, there are other ways to kill people without murdering, like drunk driving, and that kind of killing is wrong, also.
I have no problem people killing in defense of themselves or those they care about, though one might question how often it is necessary to do that. Therefore, you might conclude I am in favor of a rule stating “Do not murder.”
However, there are other ways to kill people without murdering, like drunk driving, and that kind of killing is wrong, also.