Three Days and Three Nights

[rstrats]

beta,
re: "You are being disloyal to God....not in asking questions but not simply believing His Word..."

What!!! Where have I said anywhere in this topic that I don't believe scripture with regard to Matthew 12:40? This is not a retorical question - I would really like an answer. BTW, you have another question directed to you in post #302.
　


re: "You are...going on for years now even on other forums. I can not understand your reason for doing this."

The reason is curiousity. There are believers in a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection. A number of those believers also believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb. That period of time allows for 2 night times to be spent in the tomb. However, the Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved. To try to reconcile the difference, some of the believers say that the Messiah was using common idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language of the time. I am simply asking them for the examples they are using to make the assertion of commonality as I am not aware of any.

 

[rstrats]

I didn't catch the "retorical" typo before the 5 minute edit expired.

 

[beta]

LOL now we know that you are a legalist.

For your information Jesus did not say '12 hours' in English, he said dodeka hora which does not mean 12 hours.

ὥρα
hōra
ho'-rah
Apparently a primary word; meaning - day, hour, instant, season, X short, [even-] tide, (high) time.

They did not use 60 minute hours in Palestine.

A legalist ? because I try to walk with Jesus 24/7 ?

Does it occur to you that Jesus may have mentioned 12 hours for OUR benefit today so we can have clarity in scripture ? what is the point of us reading a Bible that was more concerned with the Jews than anyone else ? Jesus wants to draw people in from all nations Acts 10v35 and has to make contact in a way they (we) would understand. WE should have no problem with 6x12, but seems christians can only count to 36 ....they should go back to school, this time attend GOD's lessons as commanded.

 

[rstrats]

beta,

You have a question directed to you in post #401.


Someone new looking in may know of examples.

 

[sparkman]

After reading many of the posts, I not only feel a tad bit more ignorant today (Today - March 31, 2017, 8.47AM USA Arizona time, where one day is 24 hours, which begins at the first immeasurable pass of time past midnight and ends 24 hours later at the following midnight.), but I am also more thankful.
I'm thankful that this is not a salvation issue. If I had to know the specific days (and nights) Jesus' body was in the tomb, I'd be doomed.

But I like the thread.

The cult I belonged to, Worldwide Church of God, taught that it DID make a difference, and that those who accept the Friday-Sunday view are rejecting the Messiah and are spiritually blind. There are still cultic groups based on his teachings...Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God and other "Church of God" Sabbatarian groups. They are a bunch of kooks. Some of them have posted on this thread.

I'm so glad I was called out of that. Armstrongites think they have "the truth" and consider Christians to be followers of a Satanic, counterfeit version of the "true faith".

 

[beta]

beta,
re: "You are being disloyal to God....not in asking questions but not simply believing His Word..."

What!!! Where have I said anywhere in this topic that I don't believe scripture with regard to Matthew 12:40? This is not a retorical question - I would really like an answer. BTW, you have another question directed to you in post #302.
　


re: "You are...going on for years now even on other forums. I can not understand your reason for doing this."

The reason is curiousity. There are believers in a 6th day of the week crucifixion/1st day of the week resurrection. A number of those believers also believe that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb. That period of time allows for 2 night times to be spent in the tomb. However, the Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved. To try to reconcile the difference, some of the believers say that the Messiah was using common idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language of the time. I am simply asking them for the examples they are using to make the assertion of commonality as I am not aware of any.

I don't see any point in discussing this again ....it's been talked about again and again. I have told you that the Bible does not allow for any 'jewish idioms in the events of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection 1 Cor 15v3,4....they clearly state it was all according to scripture ! what more do you want ? what does it matter if people think differently - let them, it should not affect what we believe.

 

[rstrats]

beta,
re: "I don't see any point in discussing this again ..."
　
I'm not looking for a discussion. You said that I was "being disloyal to God....not in asking questions but not simply believing His Word..." I'm only asking you to point out the number of the post where I was doing that.

　

re: " I have told you that the Bible does not allow for any 'jewish idioms in the events of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection 1 Cor 15v3,4....they clearly state it was all according to scripture ! what more do you want ?"


Simply what I've been asking for. The Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". However, there are those who believe that the Messiah died on the 6th day of the week and who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week. But this belief allows for only 2 night times to be involved. To reconcile this discrepancy some say that the Messiah was using common Jewish idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language. I am simply asking those folks for examples to support that assertion; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.

 

[rstrats]

beta,
re: "what does it matter if people think differently..."

For the purpose of this topic it doesn't matter. I'm not asking about what people think. I'm merely asking for the examples that they are using to assert that the Messiah was using common idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.

 

[beta]

beta,
re: "what does it matter if people think differently..."

For the purpose of this topic it doesn't matter. I'm not asking about what people think. I'm merely asking for the examples that they are using to assert that the Messiah was using common idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.

They are using the view of the PEOPLE who claim any PART of a day or night is OK....they ignore or reject scripture that says these events were according to scripture. This is nothing new about people wanting to be more right than God or Jesus who after all should know how long He would be in the heart of the earth. JESUS said a day is 12 hours and so is a night....if people don't believe just leave them to it...after years of discussions.

 

[beta]

beta,
re: "I don't see any point in discussing this again ..."
　
I'm not looking for a discussion. You said that I was "being disloyal to God....not in asking questions but not simply believing His Word..." I'm only asking you to point out the number of the post where I was doing that.

　

re: " I have told you that the Bible does not allow for any 'jewish idioms in the events of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection 1 Cor 15v3,4....they clearly state it was all according to scripture ! what more do you want ?"


Simply what I've been asking for. The Messiah said that 3 night times would be involved with His time in the "heart of the earth". However, there are those who believe that the Messiah died on the 6th day of the week and who think that the "heart of the earth" is referring to the tomb or at the earliest to the time between the leaving of His spirit from His body and His resurrection on the 1st day of the week. But this belief allows for only 2 night times to be involved. To reconcile this discrepancy some say that the Messiah was using common Jewish idiomatic/figure of speech/colloquial language. I am simply asking those folks for examples to support that assertion; i.e., instances where a daytime or a night time was forecast to be involved with an event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could have occurred.

Friend, I am not going to check all your posts where you expressed 'doubt'as to scriptures saying what it says , and stated that it could have been more or less than 3 days. I distinctly remember reading your doubt and I was disappointed in you....but it's your choice what you believe.

 

[miknik5]

HIS words are SPIRIT

You want an answer that will satisfy your flesh

Again, did CHRIST's physical body have to be in the "heart of the earth" first before you can calculate (to your liking) the three days and three nights?

where was HIS SPIRIT?
did HE have to wait told HIS body was in the tomb to go into the "heart of the earth"

that is, descend into "the heart of the earth"?

 

[sparkman]

I can remember when I was prideful and indignant about knowing the right days and foods to eat, and how that alleged knowledge made such a big difference between me and those ignorant blinded "Christians".

Then God showed me I was an imbecile concerning the depths and riches of His salvation and then I slapped my mouth in shame over my pride and stupidity.

 

[Johnny_B]

The cult I belonged to, Worldwide Church of God, taught that it DID make a difference, and that those who accept the Friday-Sunday view are rejecting the Messiah and are spiritually blind. There are still cultic groups based on his teachings...Restored Church of God, United Church of God, Living Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God and other "Church of God" Sabbatarian groups. They are a bunch of kooks. Some of them have posted on this thread.

I'm so glad I was called out of that. Armstrongites think they have "the truth" and consider Christians to be followers of a Satanic, counterfeit version of the "true faith".

I have noticed that, they are stuck on a Wednesday crucifixion and that the heart of the earth is the Tomb. When Scripture seems to show that the heart of the earth is all that was prophecies about Christ affliction in Isaiah 53, Him before the Sanhedrin as part of it or as Isaiah prophecied "Him would be numbered with the transgressors" Isaiah 53:12 and Luke 22:37 "For I tell you that this Scripture must be fulfilled in me: ‘And "He was numbered with the transgressors." For what is written about me has its fulfillment."

Matthew 26:52-56 "Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword.53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels?54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”55 At that hour Jesus said to the crowds, “Have you come out as against a robber, with swords and clubs to capture me? Day after day I sat in the temple teaching, and you did not seize me.56 But all this has taken place that the Scriptures of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples left him and fled."

Here there are two prophecies being fulfilled. Isaiah 53:7 "like a lamb that is led to the slaughter," in His arrest and Zechariah 13:7 "Strike the shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered" Christ being lead to the Sanhedrin is all part of Isaiah 53, which is the heart of the earth or affiliation that Christ would suffer and the fulfillment of Jonah's affiliation 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. With a Wednesday Unleavened Bread Passover meal, His arrest before 3 am, Peter's third denial at 3am (roosters third crow) Him being taken to Pilate at around 6am and His resurrection before 6am, makes 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth. There is no separation of the high holy day Sabbath and the weekly Sabbath, the women were talking the spices Tomb on the first day of the week or Resurrection Day, not between the yearly Sabbath and the weekly Sabbath.

I was a Thursday in the Tomb believer, then when I calculated to days and nights it did not pan out 12 hours short, then I became a Wednesday believer but it does not pan out either 12 hours to many. If the heart of the earth is the Tomb, once I learned that the heart of the earth was all of Isaiah 53 and noticed verse 9 "and they made his grave with the wicked and with a rich man in his death". When was His grave with the wicked, before the Sanhedrin, Pilate, Herod and the soldiers, when was He with a rich man in His death, in the Tomb of Joseph of Arimathea, a rich man Matthew 27:57. The hearth of the earth is His affiliation that He suffered for our sins.

 

[rstrats]

beta,
re: "I am not going to check all your posts where you expressed 'doubt'as to scriptures saying what it says , and stated that it could have been more or less than 3 days. I distinctly remember reading your doubt..."


You have to be referring to someone else because I have never said that or even implied that.

 

[rstrats]

miknik5,
re: "Again, did CHRIST's physical body have to be in the 'heart of the earth' first before you can calculate (to your liking) the three days and three nights?"
　

What difference would it make whether His spirit went to the "heart of the earth" at the time of His death (3pn) or His body was put in the tomb before sundown? Either way it would be during calendar day 1 and daytime 1.

 

[beta]

beta,
re: "I am not going to check all your posts where you expressed 'doubt'as to scriptures saying what it says , and stated that it could have been more or less than 3 days. I distinctly remember reading your doubt..."


You have to be referring to someone else because I have never said that or even implied that.

I am sorry if I have done you wrong !!!....so, Mat 12v40 definitely refers to exactly 3 nights and 3 days in the tomb - not more or less ? Thank you rstrats !

 

[rstrats]

beta,
re: "...so, Mat 12v40 definitely refers to exactly 3 nights and 3 days in the tomb..."

Yes, that is what I think - that at least a portion of each one of 3 night times and at least a portion of each one of 3 daytimes was involved.

 

[beta]

beta,
re: "...so, Mat 12v40 definitely refers to exactly 3 nights and 3 days in the tomb..."

Yes, that is what I think - that at least a portion of each one of 3 night times and at least a portion of each one of 3 daytimes was involved.

Seems we don't believe the same ....a portion is not 'full time as quoted by Jesus Joh 11v9...so I did not read you wrong after all - and it shows why you are so determined to find proof for your mis-counting - shame.

 

[rstrats]

beta,
re: "Seems we don't believe the same ..."

That's what makes the world go-round.
　


re: "... so I did not read you wrong after all..."

Yes you did. You said that I "...expressed 'doubt'as to scriptures saying what it says...". However, I never said anything about being in doubt.
　


re: "...and it shows why you are so determined to find proof for your mis-counting..."

For the purpose of this topic the only proof I'm looking for is proof that it was common to forecast that a daytime or a night time would be involved with a event when no part of the daytime or no part of the night time could occur.

 

[sparkman]

This whole argument hinges on Matthew 12:40 in terms of historical timing but the Mosaic Covenant is no longer in effect and the Sabbath and festivals are part of it no matter what heretics like Herbert Armstrong claimed. No one who believes in the Friday-Sunday position denies the Messiahship of Jesus despite the claims of some Judaizers. Armstrong was a master at spinning propaganda like that.