-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
S
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have already learned the fear of the Lord Jesus and I have even been through His judgment and I serve Him and I read the bible everyday and even listen to it on audio while I am working. If I am judged of men, it is nothing, but I stand before the judgment seat of Christ Jesus. I know Jesus, and He knows me and He speaks to me and shows me things like the ocean of blood I saw on the moon Jan. 14, 2006, as well as the other signs I have mentioned. I have given the warning, that was my part. I won't say wicked an cruel things to you because that is not Christ like. I really love Jesus with all of my heart, the real Jesus who died on the cross and rose from the dead.
I have already learned the fear of the Lord Jesus and I have even been through His judgment and I serve Him and I read the bible everyday and even listen to it on audio while I am working. If I am judged of men, it is nothing, but I stand before the judgment seat of Christ Jesus. I know Jesus, and He knows me and He speaks to me and shows me things like the ocean of blood I saw on the moon Jan. 14, 2006, as well as the other signs I have mentioned. I have given the warning, that was my part. I won't say wicked an cruel things to you because that is not Christ like. I really love Jesus with all of my heart, the real Jesus who died on the cross and rose from the dead.
R
Sir
I don't beleive it. I do not beleive Jesus visits this man, nor did he give him a Gold wedding ring to wear. This is the second time in 20 years I have heard this story about Jesus visiting someone and gave him a Gold Wedding ring. The last guy was an Evangelist from Georgia in 1990. He was a hoax as well.
I got enough Bible to know in The Spirit inside me this man is a hoax. You will eventually see. Did you know Satan can perform miracles and give people prophecy? Just enough to make them look legit. Sorry Cuz, no sale....
I don't beleive it. I do not beleive Jesus visits this man, nor did he give him a Gold wedding ring to wear. This is the second time in 20 years I have heard this story about Jesus visiting someone and gave him a Gold Wedding ring. The last guy was an Evangelist from Georgia in 1990. He was a hoax as well.
I got enough Bible to know in The Spirit inside me this man is a hoax. You will eventually see. Did you know Satan can perform miracles and give people prophecy? Just enough to make them look legit. Sorry Cuz, no sale....
i will admit some of my post was sarcastic. it's very frustrating to see people flock mindlessly to this stuff.
what you "think" or "feel" or "believe", or the prophet you promote so zealously says has to be measured by the Word.
i don't even necessarily doubt you may be seeing things you believe are signs for you personally. unfortunately i think you are deceived, since what you believe you are being shown does not line up with what is already WRITTEN. that makes everything you believe suspect: don't you EVER question what you believe?
i'm just stumped by this insistence that we have to hurry up and "get ready". should we start leaping into the air in case we somehow get left behind? sigh. i wish you would just take some time to CONSIDER the possibility that the very thing you are teaching was already corrected BY PAUL. waaaaaaaaaaay back then. why do you want to rob JESUS of HIS GLORIOUS RETURN? why do you INSIST on preaching another Jesus? the one you are preaching sneaks down at any moment and millions of people disappear *PRESTO*.
will your clothes being lying in a pile on the supermarket floor? the car you're driving veers off the road with no driver? really: wouldn't that be WRITTEN? that would be the biggest news of all....yet it's just not in Jesus' words. please: stop it. you're doing what Paul warned against, you're troubling people and upsetting them into thinking that there's something they must DO or they risk being left behind. not only is it insulting to the Glorious Return of Jesus in Blazing Glory (WITH THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY DIED - 1 Thessalonians), it's just silly.
God declares He will choose the delusions of those choose men or false teachings over what is ALREADY WRITTEN. what concerns me so much, the reason i keep posting 2 thessalonians 2 is that it's clear that by the time God sends the strong delusion, it's over for them. and we're told why: they received NOT the LOVE of the Truth.
given the fact the bible clearly lays out the sequence of events, and that a secret rapture is not in there, where do you suppose the teaching comes from? and what would be the consequence of it? if a "Jesus", or "angels" suddenly showed up saying, "LET'S GO": would you go? if they say "He is there!" would you go?
don't you understand what the saints are supposed to be doing IN THE TRIBULATION? TESTIFYING!
looking at what is taking place is CHARISMANIA today (choose from among countless of the "modern-day prophets" and miracle workers, self-appointed apostles): what is the most terrifying is not the leader, it's the PEOPLE!. if you haven't seen this video, please do.
though this is a tired old horse, and your prophet may not do the same things, the spirit is the same i'm afraid. we have to have DISCERNMENT and investigate.
from YouTube
Todd Bentley's Violent "Ministry" (WOTMR) [1of2]
....................
though Bentley is clearly crazy, he was legitimized and "annointed" by a group called
the International Coalition of Apostles
from apostlesnet . net
here's their statement of faith:
Since it is essential that the members of ICA be cemented together by a common set of fundamental beliefs, the following doctrinal statement defines the primary biblical and theological parameters of the organization:
The International Coalition of Apostles (ICA) positions itself in the evangelical theological stream of Protestant Christianity. It adheres to the Apostles’ Creed and to the core doctrines of the Protestant Reformation, namely the ultimate and essential authority of the Scriptures for Christian faith and practice, justification by faith, and the priesthood of all believers. It believes that God is Father, Son,and Holy Spirit, that Jesus was born of a virgin, that He was physically raised from the dead, and that an individual’s personal relationship to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior determines that individual’s eternal destiny in heaven or hell. The fulfillment of Jesus’ great commission to make disciples of all nations is central to the focus of ICA.
...................
putting aside for a moment that Todd Bentley is one of theirs, their statement of "faith" sounds fair, right?
...................
let's look a little closer:
The Origin of ICA
The International Coalition of Apostles (ICA) was conceived by a group of apostles who gathered informally in Singapore in 1999. John Kelly agreed to establish an office in Dallas, Texas, to organize a council and to begin to invite apostles to join ICA. He then asked C. Peter Wagner to assume overall leadership of ICA as Presiding Apostle. In early 2001, the office was moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado, under Wagner’s supervision. John Kelly continues to serve ICA as Ambassadorial Apostle, working out of his Dallas office.
Purpose of ICA
In compliance with scriptures such as Ephesians 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, and 1 Corinthians 12:28, the office of apostle began to be established and recognized by an increasingly wider spectrum of the body of Christ during the 1990s. By the year 2000 the office of apostle had begun to be affirmed and set in place throughout numerous churches of the New Apostolic Reformation. One of the symbolic events marking this transition was the first annual meeting of ICA held in Dallas, Texas, December 6-8, 2000.
Given the worldwide multiplication of individuals recognized by other Christian leaders as apostles, a strong desire has been expressed by many of them to be able to relate, in some structured way, to peer-level apostles in their own nations and internationally. Since autonomy is a high value for members of differing apostolic networks, the apostolic leaders of these networks, who technically are “vertical” apostles, had little access to mechanisms designed to fulfill that lingering “horizontal” desire to meet with their peers in anything other than a casual way.
The International Coalition of Apostles was organized as one attempt to meet this need. It is not an exclusive organization since other similar groups are forming in different parts of the world, much to the delight of ICA, as a response to what the Spirit currently seems to be saying to the churches of the 21st Century.
The fundamental vision of ICA is to speed the completion of Jesus’ great commission to preach the gospel to every creature and to make disciples of all nations. World evangelization is the pulse beat of apostles wherever they might be found. Nothing that we do in ICA should eclipse or even dull this essential vision. The accelerated advance of the Kingdom of God is our highest priority. The primary purpose of ICA is to:
Structure meaningful opportunities for peer-level apostles, representing both the nuclear church and the extended church (workplace), to meet each other, build relationships, and interact with each other on regional, national, and international levels.
Develop communication vehicles to facilitate interaction among apostles, apostolic networks, and apostolic ministries.
Catalyze and stimulate the development of creative strategies for combining apostolic efforts on the widest basis possible in order to fulfill Jesus’ great commission in our generation.
Attain and maintain the highest possible levels of integrity of personal character and operational methodology among member apostles.
Membership
Membership in ICA is restricted to individuals who have been recognized by a significant segment of the church, including peer-level apostles, as having the gift and office of apostle and who have been ministering through this gift for a period of time. It is not intended to be a training ground for would-be or “emerging” apostles, but rather it should be seen as a professional society in which confirmed apostles are able to relate to and connect with each other.
What is an apostle? Here is the ICA definition of apostle: An apostle is a Christian leader gifted, taught, commissioned, and sent by God with the authority to establish the foundational government of the church within an assigned sphere of ministry by hearing what the Spirit is saying to the churches and by setting things in order accordingly for the growth and maturity of the church.
Since apostles minister in several different ways, ICA is open to “vertical apostles” (including ecclesiastical, functional, congregational, and team-member vertical apostles), to “horizontal apostles” (including convening, ambassadorial, mobilizing, and territorial horizontal apostles), and to different kinds of “workplace apostles.”
Invitation Only
Membership is attained only by official invitation from the Presiding Apostle. Invitation to ICA requires nomination made and seconded by any two current, active ICA members. Nominations are then processed through the Colorado Springs ICA office, and decisions are made on a case-by-case basis as to whether official invitations will be extended. Under extenuating circumstances where two nominators are not available, an explanation as to why there is no second is weighed in the decision-making process.
An application process is required if the invitation is accepted by the individual nominee. This involves submitting a written application form as well as the payment of membership dues. The applicant is required to provide contact information for a person who knows the ministry of, and to whom the applicant is accountable. We will secure that person’s consent during the application approval process. Additionally, US and Canadian members are expected to contribute US$650 per year for annual dues, and International/First Nations members to contribute US$350 per year for membership. If there is any doubt because of the area of ministry, the individual apostle decides whether he or she is US or Non-US/Native American status. The dues amount now includes the registration of the member (only) for the annual meeting in December.
Ordination, Commissioning, Covering, and Accountability
When an individual is accepted as a member, a membership certificate suitable for framing is sent by the ICA office. An annual membership card is also provided, confirming that the member is active. It must be understood that ICA membership does not confer ordination or commissioning on a given apostle. ICA does not “make” an individual an apostle. Only those who have previously been recognized as having the gift and office of apostle are accepted as members, and this recognition comes through and is maintained by the particular ecclesiastical network or apostolic ministry conferring the ordination or commissioning.
Because ICA is a horizontal apostolic network, as over against a vertical network, ICA does not provide “apostolic covering” or ‘spiritual covering” for its members. Although ICA is not a primary accountability structure, membership in ICA does imply a secondary apostolic accountability. Every ICA member is accountable, in the broad sense of the word, to all other members. When reproach comes upon one, potentially that reproach can come upon all.
Annual Meetings and Summits
The major structures for facilitating the interaction of apostles with one another are the ICA annual meeting and occasional apostolic summits held in different locations.
The annual meeting is held in Dallas, Texas, on the first Wednesday, Thursday, and until noon on the first Friday of the December each year. Since ICA is a professional society, only members are invited to speak or participate on panels in the annual meeting. Speakers come at their own expense and are not paid an honorarium for their participation as they would be in a conference or a seminar. All members and spouses pay a registration fee to cover the costs of the annual meeting.
At the annual meeting, each member is entitled to bring as an observer one non-member plus their spouse. Observers and their spouses are expected to pay the normal registration fee for the meeting.
In each annual meeting, the Presiding Apostle presents an annual report which includes a financial report and a current list of ICA members. The Ambassadorial Apostle and the Apostle-at-Large present field reports. Sessions are held in the mornings and afternoons only, leaving evenings free for personal interaction.
The Ambassadorial Apostle, John Kelly, convenes apostolic summits in different regions of the U.S. from time to time. These are generally open meetings, not restricted to ICA members only.
Once or twice a year the ICA Apostolic Leadership Team travels to a different region of the world in order to hold an invitation-only meeting of regional apostles. This invariably brings together apostles who have much in common but who have not previously been able to connect with each other. As a direct result of these summits, the European League of Apostles, the Nigerian Coalition of Apostles, and the Spanish Apostolic Forum have been formed, and the strength of the international apostolic movement has been greatly increased. All current members of ICA are automatically invited to attend any of these international meetings as they desire.
Administration
ICA is administered as a d.b.a. of Global Harvest Ministries of Colorado Springs, Colorado. ICA Presiding Apostle C. Peter Wagner is President of Global Harvest, and Doris Wagner and Chuck Pierce serve as Vice-Presidents. John Kelly of LEAD is the ICA Ambassadorial Apostle. Chuck Pierce is Apostle-at-Large. Janine Cave is the full-time administrator. Financial records may be accessed by ICA members at any time. An annual audit is performed by Capin & Crouse. ICA holds membership in the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) through Global Harvest Ministries. No compensation is paid to officers of ICA, all of whom serve in an honorary capacity.
ICA Apostolic Council
The Presiding Apostle appoints an ICA Apostolic Council which provides advice and accountability.
ICA members are free to bring any concern which may arise to any or all council members. The ICA Apostolic Council is made up of C. Peter Wagner, John Kelly, Chuck Pierce, Doris Wagner, Naomi Dowdy, Ed Silvoso, Dennis Peacocke, Bill Hamon, Joseph Mattera, Ron Cottle, James Chosa, Dan Juster, Pat Francis, and George Bakalov, John Eckhardt, and H. Daniel Wilson. Addresses and other contact numbers of Apostolic Council members are available to all ICA members upon request to the Colorado Springs ICA office or on the ICA website.
It must be understood that ICA is not a council-run organization. Rather, it is governed by apostolic leadership. Because ICA functions on relationships, it is not bound by any legal structure such as bylaws
...................
i wish we didn't have to look at stuff like this, but we do.
when watching the Bentley fiasco, and all the others, it's easy to dismiss it as just silliness. but the network is HUGE and growing. anyone who cares to just has to do some investigation and decide whether this stuff is biblical or not.
as i said, and the reason for posting all this (just one example) is not because these men are so obviously wolves in sheep's clothing, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SHEEP. watching them flock to these charlatans is very scary.
Hebrews 5
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
what you "think" or "feel" or "believe", or the prophet you promote so zealously says has to be measured by the Word.
i don't even necessarily doubt you may be seeing things you believe are signs for you personally. unfortunately i think you are deceived, since what you believe you are being shown does not line up with what is already WRITTEN. that makes everything you believe suspect: don't you EVER question what you believe?
i'm just stumped by this insistence that we have to hurry up and "get ready". should we start leaping into the air in case we somehow get left behind? sigh. i wish you would just take some time to CONSIDER the possibility that the very thing you are teaching was already corrected BY PAUL. waaaaaaaaaaay back then. why do you want to rob JESUS of HIS GLORIOUS RETURN? why do you INSIST on preaching another Jesus? the one you are preaching sneaks down at any moment and millions of people disappear *PRESTO*.
will your clothes being lying in a pile on the supermarket floor? the car you're driving veers off the road with no driver? really: wouldn't that be WRITTEN? that would be the biggest news of all....yet it's just not in Jesus' words. please: stop it. you're doing what Paul warned against, you're troubling people and upsetting them into thinking that there's something they must DO or they risk being left behind. not only is it insulting to the Glorious Return of Jesus in Blazing Glory (WITH THOSE WHO HAVE ALREADY DIED - 1 Thessalonians), it's just silly.
God declares He will choose the delusions of those choose men or false teachings over what is ALREADY WRITTEN. what concerns me so much, the reason i keep posting 2 thessalonians 2 is that it's clear that by the time God sends the strong delusion, it's over for them. and we're told why: they received NOT the LOVE of the Truth.
given the fact the bible clearly lays out the sequence of events, and that a secret rapture is not in there, where do you suppose the teaching comes from? and what would be the consequence of it? if a "Jesus", or "angels" suddenly showed up saying, "LET'S GO": would you go? if they say "He is there!" would you go?
don't you understand what the saints are supposed to be doing IN THE TRIBULATION? TESTIFYING!
looking at what is taking place is CHARISMANIA today (choose from among countless of the "modern-day prophets" and miracle workers, self-appointed apostles): what is the most terrifying is not the leader, it's the PEOPLE!. if you haven't seen this video, please do.
though this is a tired old horse, and your prophet may not do the same things, the spirit is the same i'm afraid. we have to have DISCERNMENT and investigate.
from YouTube
Todd Bentley's Violent "Ministry" (WOTMR) [1of2]
....................
though Bentley is clearly crazy, he was legitimized and "annointed" by a group called
the International Coalition of Apostles
from apostlesnet . net
here's their statement of faith:
Since it is essential that the members of ICA be cemented together by a common set of fundamental beliefs, the following doctrinal statement defines the primary biblical and theological parameters of the organization:
The International Coalition of Apostles (ICA) positions itself in the evangelical theological stream of Protestant Christianity. It adheres to the Apostles’ Creed and to the core doctrines of the Protestant Reformation, namely the ultimate and essential authority of the Scriptures for Christian faith and practice, justification by faith, and the priesthood of all believers. It believes that God is Father, Son,and Holy Spirit, that Jesus was born of a virgin, that He was physically raised from the dead, and that an individual’s personal relationship to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior determines that individual’s eternal destiny in heaven or hell. The fulfillment of Jesus’ great commission to make disciples of all nations is central to the focus of ICA.
...................
putting aside for a moment that Todd Bentley is one of theirs, their statement of "faith" sounds fair, right?
...................
let's look a little closer:
The Origin of ICA
The International Coalition of Apostles (ICA) was conceived by a group of apostles who gathered informally in Singapore in 1999. John Kelly agreed to establish an office in Dallas, Texas, to organize a council and to begin to invite apostles to join ICA. He then asked C. Peter Wagner to assume overall leadership of ICA as Presiding Apostle. In early 2001, the office was moved to Colorado Springs, Colorado, under Wagner’s supervision. John Kelly continues to serve ICA as Ambassadorial Apostle, working out of his Dallas office.
Purpose of ICA
In compliance with scriptures such as Ephesians 4:11, Ephesians 2:20, and 1 Corinthians 12:28, the office of apostle began to be established and recognized by an increasingly wider spectrum of the body of Christ during the 1990s. By the year 2000 the office of apostle had begun to be affirmed and set in place throughout numerous churches of the New Apostolic Reformation. One of the symbolic events marking this transition was the first annual meeting of ICA held in Dallas, Texas, December 6-8, 2000.
Given the worldwide multiplication of individuals recognized by other Christian leaders as apostles, a strong desire has been expressed by many of them to be able to relate, in some structured way, to peer-level apostles in their own nations and internationally. Since autonomy is a high value for members of differing apostolic networks, the apostolic leaders of these networks, who technically are “vertical” apostles, had little access to mechanisms designed to fulfill that lingering “horizontal” desire to meet with their peers in anything other than a casual way.
The International Coalition of Apostles was organized as one attempt to meet this need. It is not an exclusive organization since other similar groups are forming in different parts of the world, much to the delight of ICA, as a response to what the Spirit currently seems to be saying to the churches of the 21st Century.
The fundamental vision of ICA is to speed the completion of Jesus’ great commission to preach the gospel to every creature and to make disciples of all nations. World evangelization is the pulse beat of apostles wherever they might be found. Nothing that we do in ICA should eclipse or even dull this essential vision. The accelerated advance of the Kingdom of God is our highest priority. The primary purpose of ICA is to:
Structure meaningful opportunities for peer-level apostles, representing both the nuclear church and the extended church (workplace), to meet each other, build relationships, and interact with each other on regional, national, and international levels.
Develop communication vehicles to facilitate interaction among apostles, apostolic networks, and apostolic ministries.
Catalyze and stimulate the development of creative strategies for combining apostolic efforts on the widest basis possible in order to fulfill Jesus’ great commission in our generation.
Attain and maintain the highest possible levels of integrity of personal character and operational methodology among member apostles.
Membership
Membership in ICA is restricted to individuals who have been recognized by a significant segment of the church, including peer-level apostles, as having the gift and office of apostle and who have been ministering through this gift for a period of time. It is not intended to be a training ground for would-be or “emerging” apostles, but rather it should be seen as a professional society in which confirmed apostles are able to relate to and connect with each other.
What is an apostle? Here is the ICA definition of apostle: An apostle is a Christian leader gifted, taught, commissioned, and sent by God with the authority to establish the foundational government of the church within an assigned sphere of ministry by hearing what the Spirit is saying to the churches and by setting things in order accordingly for the growth and maturity of the church.
Since apostles minister in several different ways, ICA is open to “vertical apostles” (including ecclesiastical, functional, congregational, and team-member vertical apostles), to “horizontal apostles” (including convening, ambassadorial, mobilizing, and territorial horizontal apostles), and to different kinds of “workplace apostles.”
Invitation Only
Membership is attained only by official invitation from the Presiding Apostle. Invitation to ICA requires nomination made and seconded by any two current, active ICA members. Nominations are then processed through the Colorado Springs ICA office, and decisions are made on a case-by-case basis as to whether official invitations will be extended. Under extenuating circumstances where two nominators are not available, an explanation as to why there is no second is weighed in the decision-making process.
An application process is required if the invitation is accepted by the individual nominee. This involves submitting a written application form as well as the payment of membership dues. The applicant is required to provide contact information for a person who knows the ministry of, and to whom the applicant is accountable. We will secure that person’s consent during the application approval process. Additionally, US and Canadian members are expected to contribute US$650 per year for annual dues, and International/First Nations members to contribute US$350 per year for membership. If there is any doubt because of the area of ministry, the individual apostle decides whether he or she is US or Non-US/Native American status. The dues amount now includes the registration of the member (only) for the annual meeting in December.
Ordination, Commissioning, Covering, and Accountability
When an individual is accepted as a member, a membership certificate suitable for framing is sent by the ICA office. An annual membership card is also provided, confirming that the member is active. It must be understood that ICA membership does not confer ordination or commissioning on a given apostle. ICA does not “make” an individual an apostle. Only those who have previously been recognized as having the gift and office of apostle are accepted as members, and this recognition comes through and is maintained by the particular ecclesiastical network or apostolic ministry conferring the ordination or commissioning.
Because ICA is a horizontal apostolic network, as over against a vertical network, ICA does not provide “apostolic covering” or ‘spiritual covering” for its members. Although ICA is not a primary accountability structure, membership in ICA does imply a secondary apostolic accountability. Every ICA member is accountable, in the broad sense of the word, to all other members. When reproach comes upon one, potentially that reproach can come upon all.
Annual Meetings and Summits
The major structures for facilitating the interaction of apostles with one another are the ICA annual meeting and occasional apostolic summits held in different locations.
The annual meeting is held in Dallas, Texas, on the first Wednesday, Thursday, and until noon on the first Friday of the December each year. Since ICA is a professional society, only members are invited to speak or participate on panels in the annual meeting. Speakers come at their own expense and are not paid an honorarium for their participation as they would be in a conference or a seminar. All members and spouses pay a registration fee to cover the costs of the annual meeting.
At the annual meeting, each member is entitled to bring as an observer one non-member plus their spouse. Observers and their spouses are expected to pay the normal registration fee for the meeting.
In each annual meeting, the Presiding Apostle presents an annual report which includes a financial report and a current list of ICA members. The Ambassadorial Apostle and the Apostle-at-Large present field reports. Sessions are held in the mornings and afternoons only, leaving evenings free for personal interaction.
The Ambassadorial Apostle, John Kelly, convenes apostolic summits in different regions of the U.S. from time to time. These are generally open meetings, not restricted to ICA members only.
Once or twice a year the ICA Apostolic Leadership Team travels to a different region of the world in order to hold an invitation-only meeting of regional apostles. This invariably brings together apostles who have much in common but who have not previously been able to connect with each other. As a direct result of these summits, the European League of Apostles, the Nigerian Coalition of Apostles, and the Spanish Apostolic Forum have been formed, and the strength of the international apostolic movement has been greatly increased. All current members of ICA are automatically invited to attend any of these international meetings as they desire.
Administration
ICA is administered as a d.b.a. of Global Harvest Ministries of Colorado Springs, Colorado. ICA Presiding Apostle C. Peter Wagner is President of Global Harvest, and Doris Wagner and Chuck Pierce serve as Vice-Presidents. John Kelly of LEAD is the ICA Ambassadorial Apostle. Chuck Pierce is Apostle-at-Large. Janine Cave is the full-time administrator. Financial records may be accessed by ICA members at any time. An annual audit is performed by Capin & Crouse. ICA holds membership in the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability (ECFA) through Global Harvest Ministries. No compensation is paid to officers of ICA, all of whom serve in an honorary capacity.
ICA Apostolic Council
The Presiding Apostle appoints an ICA Apostolic Council which provides advice and accountability.
ICA members are free to bring any concern which may arise to any or all council members. The ICA Apostolic Council is made up of C. Peter Wagner, John Kelly, Chuck Pierce, Doris Wagner, Naomi Dowdy, Ed Silvoso, Dennis Peacocke, Bill Hamon, Joseph Mattera, Ron Cottle, James Chosa, Dan Juster, Pat Francis, and George Bakalov, John Eckhardt, and H. Daniel Wilson. Addresses and other contact numbers of Apostolic Council members are available to all ICA members upon request to the Colorado Springs ICA office or on the ICA website.
It must be understood that ICA is not a council-run organization. Rather, it is governed by apostolic leadership. Because ICA functions on relationships, it is not bound by any legal structure such as bylaws
...................
i wish we didn't have to look at stuff like this, but we do.
when watching the Bentley fiasco, and all the others, it's easy to dismiss it as just silliness. but the network is HUGE and growing. anyone who cares to just has to do some investigation and decide whether this stuff is biblical or not.
as i said, and the reason for posting all this (just one example) is not because these men are so obviously wolves in sheep's clothing, BUT BECAUSE OF THE SHEEP. watching them flock to these charlatans is very scary.
Hebrews 5
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
G
Even if this guy it all that and then some (which I doubt) but even if he is, you are not to follow a man. If this prophet through no fault of his own gets to be bigger than God in the sight of those who see him, God will take him out. God will share His glory with no one.
What is even more exciting than a prophet of God? answer: the Bible
What is even more exciting than a prophet of God? answer: the Bible
S
I got this in my email!
Time is up and what is to follow is very scary (Tribulation).
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:23 am Niekie Deasy (15 Apr 2010) God Told Dad to Warn Everyone Jesus is Coming Soon! I would like to share my dad’s testimony with you.
Cancer of the brain was diagnosed a couple of weeks ago. Dad had an operation to remove most of the tumor. On the operation table he truly met God. He is a changed man and so is my mom, praise God! They have such an intimate relationship with God now.
Dad says God has been speaking to him through visions - he must warn everyone:
Jesus is coming back very soon, we must ready ourselves, stop pretending to be Christians and start getting serious with God. Dad does not give much details, but I have never seen him like this in my life - this is all he can talk about all day.
After the op, my dad could not use his right side (arm and leg). Saturday evening (04/10/2010) he was sitting in the bath and started to cry. He heard God’s voice in his ear telling him to let his tears fall in the water, which he then did.
The next morning, he woke up, got up, took care of some business and went back to bed. Only when he sat down did he realize that he walked on his own (no walker, no mom to help). Since then, there has been no stopping him. He is walking all the time, witnessing to whoever wants to listen or not.
We serve a God of wonders and miracles, a God who answers our prayers - Hallelujah! Per the doctor, he still has to go for chemo, but he believes he is healed completely. Please also pray for their protection, as the enemy is not happy with this.
Much love in Christ,
Niekie Deasy / http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2010/niekied415.htm
Time is up and what is to follow is very scary (Tribulation).
Date: Sun, Apr 25, 2010 10:23 am Niekie Deasy (15 Apr 2010) God Told Dad to Warn Everyone Jesus is Coming Soon! I would like to share my dad’s testimony with you.
Cancer of the brain was diagnosed a couple of weeks ago. Dad had an operation to remove most of the tumor. On the operation table he truly met God. He is a changed man and so is my mom, praise God! They have such an intimate relationship with God now.
Dad says God has been speaking to him through visions - he must warn everyone:
Jesus is coming back very soon, we must ready ourselves, stop pretending to be Christians and start getting serious with God. Dad does not give much details, but I have never seen him like this in my life - this is all he can talk about all day.
After the op, my dad could not use his right side (arm and leg). Saturday evening (04/10/2010) he was sitting in the bath and started to cry. He heard God’s voice in his ear telling him to let his tears fall in the water, which he then did.
The next morning, he woke up, got up, took care of some business and went back to bed. Only when he sat down did he realize that he walked on his own (no walker, no mom to help). Since then, there has been no stopping him. He is walking all the time, witnessing to whoever wants to listen or not.
We serve a God of wonders and miracles, a God who answers our prayers - Hallelujah! Per the doctor, he still has to go for chemo, but he believes he is healed completely. Please also pray for their protection, as the enemy is not happy with this.
Much love in Christ,
Niekie Deasy / http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2010/niekied415.htm
sislt777,
the story is a beautiful one.
regarding this: Time is up and what is to follow is very scary (Tribulation).
i am compelled to post this yet again.
you're just not grasping what God's Plan is.
i really hope you'll just read it and consider that the tribulation IS NOT GOD'S WRATH. it's satan's.
what happens are Judgments.
we're not subject to Wrath. we get changed at the Second Coming, when the Wrath comes.
what are you afraid of?
please pray and read this. it's very easy to read and to check for yourself....i've simplified it even more than he author so you can see the sequence.
put aside, just for a few minutes what you might have been taught by man.
i have left tarkowski's comments in, as it would be dishonest to take them out. you don't have to believe what ed tarkowski or anyone else says as commentary: just look at the verses IN SEQUENCE, in context: are saints in the tribulation or not?
The Saints And The Wrath Of God
by Ed Tarkowski
There will be saints in the tribulation, and these saints will be the same ones who see the beginning of the tribulation:
They offer prayers:
the story is a beautiful one.
regarding this: Time is up and what is to follow is very scary (Tribulation).
i am compelled to post this yet again.
you're just not grasping what God's Plan is.
i really hope you'll just read it and consider that the tribulation IS NOT GOD'S WRATH. it's satan's.
what happens are Judgments.
we're not subject to Wrath. we get changed at the Second Coming, when the Wrath comes.
what are you afraid of?
please pray and read this. it's very easy to read and to check for yourself....i've simplified it even more than he author so you can see the sequence.
put aside, just for a few minutes what you might have been taught by man.
i have left tarkowski's comments in, as it would be dishonest to take them out. you don't have to believe what ed tarkowski or anyone else says as commentary: just look at the verses IN SEQUENCE, in context: are saints in the tribulation or not?
The Saints And The Wrath Of God
by Ed Tarkowski
There will be saints in the tribulation, and these saints will be the same ones who see the beginning of the tribulation:
They offer prayers:
(Rev 5:8 KJV) And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
The prayers are the saints on earth as "they ascend up before God":
(Rev 8:3-4 KJV) And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. {4} And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.
After the Lord delivers God's final wrath, the saints are rewarded, not seven years before or near the end of the tribulation as other doctrines propose:
(Rev 11:18 KJV) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
The antichrist makes war with the saints during the tribulation:
(Rev 13:7 KJV) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
The saints must persevere during the tribulation:
(Rev 13:10 KJV) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
The saints must have patience during the tribulation:
(Rev 14:12 KJV) Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
The blood of the saints is shed during the tribulation:
(Rev 16:6 KJV) For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
The blood of the saints is shed during the tribulation:
(Rev 17:6 KJV) And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
In Babylon is found the blood of the saints:
(Rev 18:24 KJV) And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
ALL the saints are in the holy city at the end of the millennium, which, if you think about it, are saints just like those in the tribulation because there are no classifications of saints. Saints are saints:
(Rev 20:9 KJV) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
SAINT (Strong's) sacred (phys. pure, mor. blameless or religious, cer. consecrated):--(most) holy (one, thing), saint.
Jew or gentile, male or female, rich or poor can all be saints ONLY BY the shed blood of Christ. So MUST BE the saints in the tribulation.
The unbelieving Jews in the tribulation are not saints. The unbelieving Gentiles in the tribulation are not saints.
Those who are saints belong to Christ and are members of the church. Any doctrine that says the saints are raptured and God saves more saints to be in the tribulation have to create a new, biblically undefined species of "saint" and come under the warnings of Revelation 22:17-20.
Why people nullify the word of God by following the perverted teachings of men and jeapordize their spiritual inheritance in the Rev 22 verses, I don't understand.
They would deny the saint's presence in the tribulation by verbal gymnastics when it clearly says they are present within it. There is nothing to distinguish the saints in tribulation from any other saint.
They pray during it, they are martyred during it, the persevere during it, they keep their garments pure during all their trials and Jesus addresses encouragement to them in it:
I would love to hear a TRUE definition of what distinguishes the blood-bought saints of the tribulation saints from those who are supposedly raptured before the tribulation.
I don't understand why pretribbers don't understand that they're going to be present when the wrath is poured out? The church returns with Jesus when He treads out the wrath in Revelation 19.
All the saints will be there and witness it and the glory of our salvation will be seen: that wrath will not hurt us having been raptured just before it WITH THEIR BODY CHANGED TO BE IMMORTAL WHICH WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO DESTRUCTION OR CORRUPTION. The wrath won't hurt us one bit.
The seven bowls of wrath, poured out before these events, are on the kingdom of the antichrist and won't harm the saints because they are not of his kingdom (just as Israel didn't experience the plagues of Egypt).
The Wrath Of Revelation In Relation To The Saints
The first bowl is poured out on those who have the mark of the beast and worship his image. The saints in the trib - AND THERE ARE SAINTS IN THE TRIB - are exempt from this bowl:
None of these bowls have anything to do with the church. The pretrib argument that the church won't be in the tribulation because they are not meant for wrath is a useless defense BECAUSE THE BOWLS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM even if they are present. In fact, the saints find themselves smack-dab in the middle of the outpouring of God's wrath in the person of Christ because they return with Him when He pours out that wrath after the first six bowls:
You can respect men, but respected men have fostered great apostasy in the church because men don't read their bibles but look for implications or suppositions to prove their point and for someone else to do their thinking for them. This kind of garbage has been in the Church for decades and has increased and the devil is deceiving more men more than ever. The time is very short I would say.
There are BLOOD-BOUGHT saints in the trib who will see all of this wrath of God on the evil of this world and they will not be affected because they are in Christ. NO PRETRIBBER has been able to explain WITH SCRIPTURE why God pulls out the entire Church before the trib because that is His pattern and then saves some more to go through the trib. EXPLAIN WHY GOD BROKE HIS PATTERN BY SAVING MORE SAINTS TO GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION??????????????? The answer is simple to those who have eyes to see.
........................................
zone
Jew or gentile, male or female, rich or poor can all be saints ONLY BY the shed blood of Christ. So MUST BE the saints in the tribulation.
The unbelieving Jews in the tribulation are not saints. The unbelieving Gentiles in the tribulation are not saints.
Those who are saints belong to Christ and are members of the church. Any doctrine that says the saints are raptured and God saves more saints to be in the tribulation have to create a new, biblically undefined species of "saint" and come under the warnings of Revelation 22:17-20.
Why people nullify the word of God by following the perverted teachings of men and jeapordize their spiritual inheritance in the Rev 22 verses, I don't understand.
They would deny the saint's presence in the tribulation by verbal gymnastics when it clearly says they are present within it. There is nothing to distinguish the saints in tribulation from any other saint.
They pray during it, they are martyred during it, the persevere during it, they keep their garments pure during all their trials and Jesus addresses encouragement to them in it:
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Only a saint can do these things, a saint who is committed to Jesus with his very life's blood. How ridiculous the theories that deny God's word.
I would love to hear a TRUE definition of what distinguishes the blood-bought saints of the tribulation saints from those who are supposedly raptured before the tribulation.
I don't understand why pretribbers don't understand that they're going to be present when the wrath is poured out? The church returns with Jesus when He treads out the wrath in Revelation 19.
All the saints will be there and witness it and the glory of our salvation will be seen: that wrath will not hurt us having been raptured just before it WITH THEIR BODY CHANGED TO BE IMMORTAL WHICH WILL NOT BE SUBJECT TO DESTRUCTION OR CORRUPTION. The wrath won't hurt us one bit.
The seven bowls of wrath, poured out before these events, are on the kingdom of the antichrist and won't harm the saints because they are not of his kingdom (just as Israel didn't experience the plagues of Egypt).
The Wrath Of Revelation In Relation To The Saints
The first bowl is poured out on those who have the mark of the beast and worship his image. The saints in the trib - AND THERE ARE SAINTS IN THE TRIB - are exempt from this bowl:
Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
The second and third bowls are poured out upon the waters of earth as a judgment ON THOSE WHO KILLED GOD'S SAINTS AND PROPHETS (v. 6). The saints naturally are exempt from this bowl:
Rev 16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man; and every living soul died in the sea.
Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
The fourth bowl is poured out on the sun to scorch UNREPENTANT MEN (v. 11) with fire. The saints in the trib are exempt from this bowl: Rev 16:4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
Rev 16:5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
Rev 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
Rev 16:7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
The fifth bowl is poured out on the kingdom of the beast and its inhabitants because they REPENTED NOT. The saints in the trib are exempt from this bowl: Rev 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
Rev 16:10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
The sixth bowl is poured out to bring the kings of the east (which are definitely not the saints) and evil spiritual forces call the world's armies to Armageddon. The saints are exempt from this bowl: Rev 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
As these forces gather for Armageddon, what follows is the rapture of the Church (the saints on earth included). The saints are exempt from this bowl. In fact, Jesus tells the saints in the next verse: Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Rev 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
We are deep into the tribulation with the kingdom of darkness falling into pieces, the evil armies gathering to Armageddon, and Jesus saying He is about to come. The saints are raptured as He descends and the gathered, evil armies destroyed in that descent with ALL the saints, those raised and those changed: Rev 16:16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
Rev 16:17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
Notice in verse 16:21 the verse no longer adds "and they repented not." The time of repentance is over, Christ has come with His saints and the millennial reign begins. Rev 16:18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.
Rev 16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev 16:20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Rev 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.
None of these bowls have anything to do with the church. The pretrib argument that the church won't be in the tribulation because they are not meant for wrath is a useless defense BECAUSE THE BOWLS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM even if they are present. In fact, the saints find themselves smack-dab in the middle of the outpouring of God's wrath in the person of Christ because they return with Him when He pours out that wrath after the first six bowls:
Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
REV 19:14 AND THE ARMIES WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM UPON WHITE HORSES, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
REV 19:15 AND OUT OF HIS MOUTH GOETH A SHARP SWORD, THAT WITH IT HE SHOULD SMITE THE NATIONS: AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON: AND HE TREADETH THE WINEPRESS OF THE FIERCENESS AND WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
The pretribulation doctrine absolutely destroys this glorious picture of the completion of the salvation of the saints!!!! We are changed to be like him and are changed incorruptible while the birds of the air pluck at the bodies of the unrepentant slain. This scene is further described in Zechariah: Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
REV 19:14 AND THE ARMIES WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM UPON WHITE HORSES, CLOTHED IN FINE LINEN, WHITE AND CLEAN.
REV 19:15 AND OUT OF HIS MOUTH GOETH A SHARP SWORD, THAT WITH IT HE SHOULD SMITE THE NATIONS: AND HE SHALL RULE THEM WITH A ROD OF IRON: AND HE TREADETH THE WINEPRESS OF THE FIERCENESS AND WRATH OF ALMIGHTY GOD.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.
Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
THE SAINTS OF GOD RETURNING WITH CHRIST NOW CHANGED TO BE LIKE HIM STAND WITH HIM IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS WRATH. The pretrib argument destroys the glory and power that is due Christ.
You can respect men, but respected men have fostered great apostasy in the church because men don't read their bibles but look for implications or suppositions to prove their point and for someone else to do their thinking for them. This kind of garbage has been in the Church for decades and has increased and the devil is deceiving more men more than ever. The time is very short I would say.
There are BLOOD-BOUGHT saints in the trib who will see all of this wrath of God on the evil of this world and they will not be affected because they are in Christ. NO PRETRIBBER has been able to explain WITH SCRIPTURE why God pulls out the entire Church before the trib because that is His pattern and then saves some more to go through the trib. EXPLAIN WHY GOD BROKE HIS PATTERN BY SAVING MORE SAINTS TO GO THROUGH THE TRIBULATION??????????????? The answer is simple to those who have eyes to see.
........................................
zone
S
You can stay for the tribulation if you desire. However, God has already confirmed to me that I am going in the rapture as He has also confirmed to many others. You call the catching away an evil thing, that is
sad to me. God has not appointed us to wrath but to obtain mercy and redemption.
I was judged by Jesus and He took His peace away from me for a whole week, because I had backslid away from Him for about a year, when He took His peace away from me I thought I was going to hell for sure and that my time was really up. I cried out to the Lord Jesus for that whole week and pleaded with God not to send me to hell, and when I went to talk to a brother in the Lord and told him what was going on, he prayed for me and I felt God's peace enter back into my body, just as it did when I was first saved. I know why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace now! Before that experience God had me watch a testimony by Bill Wieise where Jesus placed him into a cell in hell for 23 minutes, and then brought him back out to warn the people that this place is real. Jesus does manifest Himself to people especially when He judges you. He said He had to judge the church first and then the world. Before this judgment I truly thought I had repented when I had lost one of my son's to a drug overdose. God brought him out of a coma long enough to pray the sinners prayer and I believe he is now in heaven. I started repenting then an there while my son was dying. It was a few years after that happened that I went through Gods judgment. You see my repentance was for me, because I did not want to lose my son and it was for my son so he could be forgiven and maybe have another chance to live. I realized when I was judged that my repentance was very selfish. I had hurt God by backslidding and I should have been broken over hurting God the way that I did. After this I was driving home and praying in the Spirit and the Holy Spirit spoke to my mind and told me that I was going home, that I would not make my 50th birthday. I thought ok, well at least He said home and that means heaven, so for about a year an a half I prepared myself to go home. Then I went to a conference with David Herzog and he walked up to the front row and I was sitting in the 4th row and he pointed at me and said the following: (I have to witnesses to this as they went with me to the conference), he said to me with his finger pointing straight at me, God wants you to know that you have a choice, you can stay here and everything will be alright, or you can go home and everything will be alright, God wants you to know you have a choice and he repeated what he just said and then turned around and got ready to preach. One day a while after all of this I was praying and telling the Lord that I was still terrified to read His words because I had backslidden so bad, an I was kneeling down on my knees with my hand on my open bible. When I got up my eyes went right on the passage of the prodigal son and my heart jumped for joy! I knew I was accepted in the beloved. Before that conference I was attacked by the spirit of death. I was in my front yard petting my dog and all of a sudden it felt like something grabbed my heart and started squeezing it very hard. I started sweating and breathing fast and realized that I was having a heart attack. I did not pray about it or try to stop it because I thought I was going home like God said to me. Then all of a sudden something grabbed whatever was grabbing my heart and pulled it off of me and everything became normal again. I just shrugged it off and went into the house, and later that night proceeded to mow my lawn in very hot weather, and I was in perfect peace about everything, not knowing that soon I would be given a choice to stay or go home. Well I chose to stay here because I knew Jesus was going to be glorified in the earth as God the Father swore that He would be glorified and I wanted to see the later rain and the lost sheep coming back to God so I chose to stay here! My testimony is supernatural just as is the visions and signs that I have been given. My testimony is written in heaven, and on the judgment day you will see that I am NOT a liar or a glory seeker. I am not following Dr. Owuor, I am following Jesus and I saw blood on the moon Jan. 14, 2006 and that is one of the reasons I believe Dr. Owuor. Jesus said a Prophet is not without honor except in his own home town. The bible says to believe the prophet an so shall you prosper. I hear what the Spirit of God is saying to the churches and to the world, because God has given me ears to hear. You can mock me and make fun of me, but that can not change what Jesus has done in my life and what He has shown me, nor what He is about to do with all His yielded and prepared children. Jesus said that nothing shall be impossible to Him in Heaven or in Earth. He never said that He would not manifest Himself to people, He did it to many after He was raised from the dead and no where did He say that He would never do that again. People always limit God and don't remember what He has already done, that is one of the downfalls of the children of Israel in the wilderness, and many in the church are doing the same things. The bible says they are our examples. Anyway there is probably no amount of talking that will convince you of the truth. God does still use people in the office of a prophet. It is just that we have not seen a real prophet in so long that many don't believe there is even such a thing anymore. If you study about the deception Jesus talks about you will find in in relation to the antichrist and false prophet. But more than anything a living loving two way relationship with Jesus Christ is the most important thing of all at this time. If you study the true, then you will be able to recognize the false. You have belittled me by saying that I probably don't read the bible and that is a slander and the devil is the source of slander. I forgive you and pray that you will find mercy on the day of the Lord Jesus.
sad to me. God has not appointed us to wrath but to obtain mercy and redemption.
I was judged by Jesus and He took His peace away from me for a whole week, because I had backslid away from Him for about a year, when He took His peace away from me I thought I was going to hell for sure and that my time was really up. I cried out to the Lord Jesus for that whole week and pleaded with God not to send me to hell, and when I went to talk to a brother in the Lord and told him what was going on, he prayed for me and I felt God's peace enter back into my body, just as it did when I was first saved. I know why Jesus is called the Prince of Peace now! Before that experience God had me watch a testimony by Bill Wieise where Jesus placed him into a cell in hell for 23 minutes, and then brought him back out to warn the people that this place is real. Jesus does manifest Himself to people especially when He judges you. He said He had to judge the church first and then the world. Before this judgment I truly thought I had repented when I had lost one of my son's to a drug overdose. God brought him out of a coma long enough to pray the sinners prayer and I believe he is now in heaven. I started repenting then an there while my son was dying. It was a few years after that happened that I went through Gods judgment. You see my repentance was for me, because I did not want to lose my son and it was for my son so he could be forgiven and maybe have another chance to live. I realized when I was judged that my repentance was very selfish. I had hurt God by backslidding and I should have been broken over hurting God the way that I did. After this I was driving home and praying in the Spirit and the Holy Spirit spoke to my mind and told me that I was going home, that I would not make my 50th birthday. I thought ok, well at least He said home and that means heaven, so for about a year an a half I prepared myself to go home. Then I went to a conference with David Herzog and he walked up to the front row and I was sitting in the 4th row and he pointed at me and said the following: (I have to witnesses to this as they went with me to the conference), he said to me with his finger pointing straight at me, God wants you to know that you have a choice, you can stay here and everything will be alright, or you can go home and everything will be alright, God wants you to know you have a choice and he repeated what he just said and then turned around and got ready to preach. One day a while after all of this I was praying and telling the Lord that I was still terrified to read His words because I had backslidden so bad, an I was kneeling down on my knees with my hand on my open bible. When I got up my eyes went right on the passage of the prodigal son and my heart jumped for joy! I knew I was accepted in the beloved. Before that conference I was attacked by the spirit of death. I was in my front yard petting my dog and all of a sudden it felt like something grabbed my heart and started squeezing it very hard. I started sweating and breathing fast and realized that I was having a heart attack. I did not pray about it or try to stop it because I thought I was going home like God said to me. Then all of a sudden something grabbed whatever was grabbing my heart and pulled it off of me and everything became normal again. I just shrugged it off and went into the house, and later that night proceeded to mow my lawn in very hot weather, and I was in perfect peace about everything, not knowing that soon I would be given a choice to stay or go home. Well I chose to stay here because I knew Jesus was going to be glorified in the earth as God the Father swore that He would be glorified and I wanted to see the later rain and the lost sheep coming back to God so I chose to stay here! My testimony is supernatural just as is the visions and signs that I have been given. My testimony is written in heaven, and on the judgment day you will see that I am NOT a liar or a glory seeker. I am not following Dr. Owuor, I am following Jesus and I saw blood on the moon Jan. 14, 2006 and that is one of the reasons I believe Dr. Owuor. Jesus said a Prophet is not without honor except in his own home town. The bible says to believe the prophet an so shall you prosper. I hear what the Spirit of God is saying to the churches and to the world, because God has given me ears to hear. You can mock me and make fun of me, but that can not change what Jesus has done in my life and what He has shown me, nor what He is about to do with all His yielded and prepared children. Jesus said that nothing shall be impossible to Him in Heaven or in Earth. He never said that He would not manifest Himself to people, He did it to many after He was raised from the dead and no where did He say that He would never do that again. People always limit God and don't remember what He has already done, that is one of the downfalls of the children of Israel in the wilderness, and many in the church are doing the same things. The bible says they are our examples. Anyway there is probably no amount of talking that will convince you of the truth. God does still use people in the office of a prophet. It is just that we have not seen a real prophet in so long that many don't believe there is even such a thing anymore. If you study about the deception Jesus talks about you will find in in relation to the antichrist and false prophet. But more than anything a living loving two way relationship with Jesus Christ is the most important thing of all at this time. If you study the true, then you will be able to recognize the false. You have belittled me by saying that I probably don't read the bible and that is a slander and the devil is the source of slander. I forgive you and pray that you will find mercy on the day of the Lord Jesus.
S
Entering the Seventh Day
Sid Roth - It's Supernatural Messianic Vision: Bruce Allen
God has revealed to Bruce Allen that we are entering into what is prophetically called the Seventh Day, when God’s promises for your life are fulfilled and your prayers answered effortlessly. As Bruce ministers, many receive verified miracles, and groups of people are able to see in the spirit. In one meeting over 800 people literally saw Jesus! Let Bruce teach you to position yourself to walk in the blessings of the Seventh Day. Go here to view an incredible picture that was taken as Bruce was ministering.
Sid Roth - It's Supernatural Messianic Vision: Bruce Allen
God has revealed to Bruce Allen that we are entering into what is prophetically called the Seventh Day, when God’s promises for your life are fulfilled and your prayers answered effortlessly. As Bruce ministers, many receive verified miracles, and groups of people are able to see in the spirit. In one meeting over 800 people literally saw Jesus! Let Bruce teach you to position yourself to walk in the blessings of the Seventh Day. Go here to view an incredible picture that was taken as Bruce was ministering.
R
"Blood on the Moon"
I wonder how come our Astronomers missed it?
I'm not saying you did'nt feel something, but the Question really is; Did you Try The Spirits, as our Bibles warn US? Are you just accepting this man's Person, on what is tickling your ears?
Romans 2 v 11 " For there is no Respect of Persons with God."
If I were you, I would find a solid Bible teaching Church, and get yourself immersed in God's Word, rather then concerning some pie-in -the.-sky " Prophet".
I wonder how come our Astronomers missed it?
I'm not saying you did'nt feel something, but the Question really is; Did you Try The Spirits, as our Bibles warn US? Are you just accepting this man's Person, on what is tickling your ears?
Romans 2 v 11 " For there is no Respect of Persons with God."
If I were you, I would find a solid Bible teaching Church, and get yourself immersed in God's Word, rather then concerning some pie-in -the.-sky " Prophet".
S
Your lack of faith and unbelief amaze me!
On Jan. 10th, 2006 or so I had read about these two volcanoes going off on the north and south poles at the same time, so I decided to get up very early the next Saturday morning and look at the moon with my digital binocular camera. So I did get up early Jan. 14, 2006 to watch the moon, because the bible says there will be signs in the sun an moon an stars and earth. I recognized the volcanoes as a sign in the earth of the birth pains, so when I was looking out my front windows, my house faces the west an I live in the country, I could see the moon very clearly, the man on the moon was laying down looking upwards and the moon was big because it was winter and the moon is closer to the earth in the winter. As I was watching the moon all of a sudden in the middle of the moon an ocean of real blood appeared, I could see it splashing like an ocean too. Then as I was looking at this sign a river started forming at the bottom and it flowed downwards then sideways then upwards toward the middle of the moon and it turned to the left an all the blood flowed behind the moon in about 60 seconds. I went to a womens meeting that morning an told the Pastors wife what I saw as well!
I am in the word of God every day and Jesus speaks to me as well! I have a two way relationship with the real Jesus that is very awesome! A church can't save you, only a real relationship with God through Jesus Christ can save you, being in fellowship is very important and I do go to church also, but my salvation is from Jesus. I only follow people as they are following Jesus, if they quit following Jesus I will no longer listen to them. There is living water that is flowing out of a lot of real Christians. I drink living water and if flows out of me as well, the Holy Spirit is the source of living water. I am not a fake, a liar or deceived as you suppose that I am! Dr. Owuor is a real Prophet and if he begins to be deceived I will be the first to quit listening to him and warn others. But he is sincere in his faith and God talks with him and shows him things. Just as God talks to me and shows me things. Where is your faith that God can even speak in this day and age???
On Jan. 10th, 2006 or so I had read about these two volcanoes going off on the north and south poles at the same time, so I decided to get up very early the next Saturday morning and look at the moon with my digital binocular camera. So I did get up early Jan. 14, 2006 to watch the moon, because the bible says there will be signs in the sun an moon an stars and earth. I recognized the volcanoes as a sign in the earth of the birth pains, so when I was looking out my front windows, my house faces the west an I live in the country, I could see the moon very clearly, the man on the moon was laying down looking upwards and the moon was big because it was winter and the moon is closer to the earth in the winter. As I was watching the moon all of a sudden in the middle of the moon an ocean of real blood appeared, I could see it splashing like an ocean too. Then as I was looking at this sign a river started forming at the bottom and it flowed downwards then sideways then upwards toward the middle of the moon and it turned to the left an all the blood flowed behind the moon in about 60 seconds. I went to a womens meeting that morning an told the Pastors wife what I saw as well!
I am in the word of God every day and Jesus speaks to me as well! I have a two way relationship with the real Jesus that is very awesome! A church can't save you, only a real relationship with God through Jesus Christ can save you, being in fellowship is very important and I do go to church also, but my salvation is from Jesus. I only follow people as they are following Jesus, if they quit following Jesus I will no longer listen to them. There is living water that is flowing out of a lot of real Christians. I drink living water and if flows out of me as well, the Holy Spirit is the source of living water. I am not a fake, a liar or deceived as you suppose that I am! Dr. Owuor is a real Prophet and if he begins to be deceived I will be the first to quit listening to him and warn others. But he is sincere in his faith and God talks with him and shows him things. Just as God talks to me and shows me things. Where is your faith that God can even speak in this day and age???
Last edited:
S
Re: Entering the Seventh Day
I agree, we are to test the spirits! Believe me, I walk in the fear of the Lord as I understand the gravity of what I say and do. I will give an eternal account for every word I speak or write and everything I do. This is not a game, nor am I trying to make a name for myself. I could care less if anyone remembers me, I only care that they hear the truth, because it is the truth that sets people free!
I agree, we are to test the spirits! Believe me, I walk in the fear of the Lord as I understand the gravity of what I say and do. I will give an eternal account for every word I speak or write and everything I do. This is not a game, nor am I trying to make a name for myself. I could care less if anyone remembers me, I only care that they hear the truth, because it is the truth that sets people free!
A
Re: Entering the Seventh Day
Isn't he a United Pentecostal Church Oneness Pentecostal Service of a new beginning – Pastor Bruce Allen « My footsteps in the River of time ?
The Bereans: Apologetics Research Ministry
So right off the bat we have a problem with these people denying the persons of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit vigorously rejecting the authentic historical Christian doctrine of the Trinity replacing it with the heretical doctrine that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (i.e., the "Jesus only" view).
What does Oneness Pentecostal teach? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
And we also have the problem of these Oneness Pentecostals teaching that everyone who isn't baptized according to their sect's baptismal ritual and speaks in tongues too are not saved.
The next problem is what happens to the people who don't get healed and don't get all their prayers "answered effortlessly?"
I'm glad they hand out Bibles and tell people about Jesus. Like the rest of you I know God loves them. But we have serious doctrinal problems here with this group people. Serious enough to be material.
Isn't he a United Pentecostal Church Oneness Pentecostal Service of a new beginning – Pastor Bruce Allen « My footsteps in the River of time ?
The Bereans: Apologetics Research Ministry
So right off the bat we have a problem with these people denying the persons of God the Father and God the Holy Spirit vigorously rejecting the authentic historical Christian doctrine of the Trinity replacing it with the heretical doctrine that Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (i.e., the "Jesus only" view).
What does Oneness Pentecostal teach? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry
And we also have the problem of these Oneness Pentecostals teaching that everyone who isn't baptized according to their sect's baptismal ritual and speaks in tongues too are not saved.
The next problem is what happens to the people who don't get healed and don't get all their prayers "answered effortlessly?"
I'm glad they hand out Bibles and tell people about Jesus. Like the rest of you I know God loves them. But we have serious doctrinal problems here with this group people. Serious enough to be material.
