Timing is everything?

[Cobb]

Greetings. I am going to talk about a controversial subject in this thread: TIMING. Ever wonder why the Gen 6 flood account contains exacting day-month timing of events? Or why of all of the kings and wars fought in the bible, only one king/war has exacting day-month timing recorded with it? Or have you ever wondered why God instituted His own calendric system with several appointed day-month festivals? Ever wonder why the crucifixion occured on a specifically appointed festival? Or why the resurrection occured exactly on the opening of the spring harvest festival? Or why the baptism of the Holy Spirit occured on the exact day of the closing of the spring harvest festival? Ever wonder why God commanded that trumpets be sounded throughout the land on a specific day and month for no "apparent" reason?

Mt 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

Of course there is much been made of this saying of the King Messiah, and many of them among those professing covenant with Jesus Christ use this saying as a kind of "mantra" to insist that what "no man knows" can never be known- so why even talk about it? However, if we read the scripture sometimes we find that things are not always as they seem at first glance.

No man knows the day and hour, but the Father; but what else does "no man know, but the Father"?

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father

Again you see Jesus speaking, and saying, No man knoweth the Son; yet What else does the scripture say?

Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: 10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; 11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

Again:

Lu 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father

If no man knoweth who the Son is, then how is it then that we as Christians profess to know this thing that "no man knows, but the Father"? How can we know the "unknowable"? Paul writes concerning these "unknowable" things:

1Cor 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Jesus plainly said "no man knows who the Son is, but the Father"; but then when Jesus asked Peter "But whom say ye that I AM?" Peter replied "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God"- so how did Peter know what "no man knows, but the Father"?

Matt 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Mr 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

If it is clearly possible (even, inevitable) to know what "no man knows" is it then also clearly possible (even, inevitable) to know the day and the hour?

Lu 10:21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

Lu 12:2 For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.

Next post will concern the one and only king in scripture whose arrival on a specific day and month was not only thrice recorded in the Word of God- but is also the only day and month specifically commanded by God to be recorded by the prophet. The coming of this king was synonomous with the end: the coming of the one called THE DESTROYER OF THE NATIONS- anyone know who it was/is?

 

[crossnote]

perhaps you should include the last part of the verse?
Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whom soever the Son will reveal [him.]

 

[Cobb]

perhaps you should include the last part of the verse?
Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whom soever the Son will reveal [him.]

Hello crossnote; I'm citing the relevant words concerning the idea of the things "no man knows"; do you feel that citing more helps? How so? I suppose that the latter citation shows that the Father can be revealed through the Son but it doesn't really tell us anything about how a man can know who the Son is to begin with- since we're told "no man knows who the Son is"

So, if "no man knows" who the Son is, then how can the Son reveal the Father to any man- since "no man knows" who the Son is?

Question: do you know who the Son is? If "yes"- how so? The bible says no man knows.

Do you know the day and the hour?

 

[Cobb]

Before moving forward to the revelation of the timing of the coming of the "destroyer of the nations"; I want to lay the proverbial foundation of the timing given by the Father through His Word. Many Christians have already begun to understand this revelation, and so it may be that this is already known here- if so, then I will be refreshing the memory. The question is, why does the Father exactingly specify certain days and months in correlation with biblical events. Why at, say, Leviticus 23 does the Father command the observance of a specific measuring of time, and specific events occuring on specific days of the year? The apostle Paul answers this:

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

These things then are a "shadow of things to come"- and these events are the "dark glass" Paul speaks of, through which we see the future. As the Preacher said:

Ecc 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

So let's look at these Lev 23 festivals again and see how they show the "things to come"

We see there are two groups revolving around two harvests- Spring and Fall.

Spring (begin first month; Nisan): Passover -> Firstfruits -> Weeks -> Pentecost
Fall (begin seventh month; Tishri): Trumpets -> Day of Atonement -> Tabernacles/Ingathering -> The Last Day

Now if we look to the New Testament we find that it is manifest that Christ fulfilled Passover through Pentecost on the exact days, without variance, and in succession, without delay.

Christ fulfilled Passover on the actual day of Passover through His crucifixion. Joh 19:14, 1Co 5:7
Christ fulfilled Firstfruits on the actual day of Firstfruits through rising from the dead and becoming the firstfruits from the dead; this day marks the beginning of the Spring harvest. 1Co 15:20-23
Christ fulfilled Weeks during the actual days of Weeks, through gathering the "firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field"; which is the church established at the first coming, a "kind of firstfruits" 1Cor 16:5, Jas 1:18, Re 14:4.
Christ fulfilled Pentecost on the actual day of Pentecost, through the baptism of the Holy Spirit on those gathered as one. Pentecost was the conclusion of, and celebration of, the Spring harvest; Acts 2:1, Rom 8:23

Because of the former, then it is manifestly evident that Christ will fulfill the Fall Holy Days in same manner: on the exact days, without variance, and in succession, without delay. Thus it is manifestly evident that Christ will return in the month of Tishri, and no other. Christ will fulfill Trumpets through the Last Day on the exact days, without variance, and in succession, without delay.

If we look at the Revelation we will see that much of the imagery is being specifically derived from the 7th month festival imagery, such as the blowing of trumpets, the use of "much incense" at the altar and such as:

Rev 14:18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden

This is none else but the festival of Ingathering in the 7th month: the specific time when the grapes are gathered by clusters, and the winepress trodden; this is the second harvest of the year. This festival concludes at the 22nd day of the 7th month called "the Last Day" (this is the same "last day" Jesus spoke of refering to the time of the resurrection) upon which this event manifest:

Joh 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Ne 8:18 Also day by day, from the first day unto the last day, he read in the book of the law of God. And they kept the feast seven days; and on the eighth day was a solemn assembly, according unto the manner.

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

So we find that "the last day" is appointed by the Father to occur on the 22nd day of the 7th month.

These are the specific timings of the "festivals of the LORD" and these are being understood; but many have yet to understand the "judgment timing" also revealed by the Father. The most important of these- and the one and only day commanded to be recorded- is the day of the coming of the DESTROYER. This will be the next post.

 

[Cobb]

Now that it is manifest that the "festivals of the Lord" speak of the timing of the first and second advent, we reveal the time appointed for the coming of the Destroyer and the Desolator, of whom it was written:

Jer 4:7 The lion is come up from his thicket, and the destroyer of the nations is on his way; he is gone forth from his place to make thy land desolate; and thy cities shall be laid waste, without an inhabitant.

This coming then being thrice recorded for the elect in the scripture:

2Ki 25:1 And it came to pass in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came, he, and all his host, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it; and they built forts against it round about.

Jer 52:4 And it came to pass in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon came, he and all his army, against Jerusalem, and pitched against it, and built forts against it round about.

Eze 24:1 Again in the tenth month, in the tenth day of the month, the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Son of man, write thee the name of the day, even of this same day: the king of Babylon set himself against Jerusalem this same day.

Consider then that the history of the earthly nation of Israel under the Old Covenant is a picture of the history of the heavenly nation of Israel under the New Covenant. Thus by looking at the Old Testament we can see the history- past, present and future- of the Church of Christ.

The earthly nation of Israel was brought out of bondage in Egypt by a great deliverance; this began on the 15th day of the 1st month, following the initial Passover sacrifice the day prior- the 14th day of the 1st month. Following this, the earthly nation entered the Promised Land and flourished into a noble kingdom. Time passed until the earthly nation of Israel began to become apostate from the Lord. Kings came and went, the priesthood became polluted by introducing false teachings and vain traditions until finally, the end came for earthly Israel.

At this time of the end, the Lord sent the King of Babel in judgment against earthly Israel and the city of Jerusalem with her temple. Despite the claims of the false prophets who prophesied that the Lord would not allow Jerusalem to fall; the King of Babel nevertheless arrived with all of his host on the 10th day of the 10th month to begin the judgment, to destroy Jerusalem, to overcome the Israelites, to raze the temple of the Lord to the ground, and to carry away the Israelites into the captivity of Babel.

Thus we have here a prophetic picture of the first coming of the Lord Jesus Christ and the beginnings of Israel- and we have here a prophetic picture of the coming of that Wicked (Antichrist) to the judgment of Israel. It is then imperative to note the timing relayed by the Word of God; all who are unaware (or, blinded) of the timing will perish in the time of testing to come upon all the world.

For as we see in the New Testament, the beginnings of the spiritual Israel (that is to say, the Church of Christ) occurred in the same days as the beginnings of the earthly Israel. That is: Jesus (the spiritual Moses) was crucified on the 14th day of the 1st month, and began the great deilverance of the people of God through His sacrifice and subsequent resurrection and ascension.

After this spiritual exodus from the bondage to sin and death, the Church of Christ flourished into a noble spiritual kingdom. Time passed until the Church of Christ began to become apostate from the Lord. Kings came and went, the priesthood became polluted by introducing false teachings and vain traditions until finally, the end has also come for spiritual Israel.

Thereby, looking at the past we can see the future; that is to say, looking at the history of earthly Israel allows us to glimpse the future of the spiritual Israel that is about to come upon the Church of Christ in judgment.

The apostle Paul then writes in warning of the coming of that Wicked- and this is he of whom the earthly King of Babel is but a prophetic shadow. Thus, as Jesus Christ began the work of a great deliverence on the same days as did Moses before him; so will the Antichrist begin the work of the great judgment on the same days as did Nebuchadnezzar before him: the 10th day of the 10th month.

Understand that the name Babylon is merely the Gentile rendering of the name Babel- and this name means CONFUSION; and so the King of Babel to come is literally the King of Confusion. But as the great deliverence by Jesus Christ was a spiritual deliverence, and not an earthly deliverence as was the work of Moses- so the great judgment of the King of Confusion will likewise be a spiritual judgment and not an earthly judgment.

Thus he is called the King of Confusion. As the earthly King of Babel overcame the saints of the Old Covenant, destroyed the city and temple and carried away the inhabitants of the city of Jerusalem captive into Babel- so too does the spiritual King of Confusion overcome the saints of the New Covenant, overthrows the spiritual temple and carries away the Christians into GREAT CONFUSION: for of all of them that profess Christ as Lord, only a remnant will remain faithful to the TRUE King of Israel in the time to come; and of them that fall away in the apostacy spoken of by the apostle Paul, it is well said of them:

Isa 29:13 Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men: 14 Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.

and again:

1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

As Jesus Christ fulfilled the great spiritual deliverence according to the same timing as Moses had fulfilled the earthly deliverence; so too will that Wicked fulfill the great spiritual judgment according to the same timing as Nebuchadnezzar over a one and one-half year seige of Christianity culminating in the complete destruction of the house of Christianity; the temple of God, on the 7th day of the 5th month; not one stone will be left standing upon another, and only a small remnant of elected Christians will retain their crown of life, and overcome.

Mt 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen.

 

[Cobb]

Jer 52:12 Now in the fifth month, in the tenth day of the month, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem,
13 And burned the house of the LORD, and the king’s house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire:
14 And all the army of the Chaldeans, that were with the captain of the guard, brake down all the walls of Jerusalem round about.

 

[Cobb]

Next in looking at the biblical timing one then finds two types of day-month timing revealed through the scripture:

1. Festival timing
2. Non-festival timing

The former can all be found at Lev 23 (and elsewhere) and reveal the timing of the advents of the King Messiah- spring (first coming) and fall (second coming): these day-month timings are always in the singular form- meaning, we are given one statement of an event:

Nu 9:5 And they kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month at even in the wilderness of Sinai: according to all that the LORD commanded Moses, so did the children of Israel.
Jos 5:10 And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho.
2Ch 35:1 Moreover Josiah kept a passover unto the LORD in Jerusalem: and they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the first month.

The latter are always in the plural: not just a singular day-month record, but entire day-month timelines are involved. These "judgment" timelines appear in only six instances of scriptural events, and they are these:

1. The Flood (Genesis)
2. The Exodus (Exodus)
3. The building of the first temple (Chronicles)

4. The military campaign of the King of Confusion- the Destroyer/Desolator (Jeremiah/Ezekiel)
5. Purim (Esther)
6. The building of the second temple (Ezra/Nehemiah/Haggai/Zechariah)

 

[Enow]

Sometimes it is best to do a cross reference on a subject matter you are trying to present.

In regards to the pre tribulational rapture event, I find this below.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

I believe what is unknowable is limited to that event.

 

[Cobb]

Sometimes it is best to do a cross reference on a subject matter you are trying to present.

In regards to the pre tribulational rapture event, I find this below.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

I believe what is unknowable is limited to that event.

Hello Enow. In and of himself, man knows nothing; that which is knowable is limited only to that which God reveals by His Spirit (as the apostle teaches)

1Jo 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

1Cor 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

And this is why the prophet speaks thus:

Dan 2:30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.

Thus though man knows nothing (neither can he know), the Father freely reveals all things to His own. He is now revealing the purpose of the day-month timing to seal His true servants with the knowledge required to escape the temptation to come, and to pass safely through the fiery trial arising- which will consume the tares from out of His kingdom.

Speaking of the "pre-tribulation rapture event" is problematic for a few reasons. Foremost among these is that the word "rapture" carries with it the idea of a "taking out of the world" of Christians, an event that is not found in the scripture and one which will never come to pass. The teaching is in fact in direct opposition to the desire of the King Messiah who prayed thus:

Joh 17:15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

Rather than ever being "taken out of the world" the elect of God are "kept from the evil" (meaning, "guarded" as a "keeper" "keeps" a door), and we are guarded through the trial by these:

Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Note the last two words there. This is the answer to the question:

Re 6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Regarding the "catching up" of them "alive and remaining unto the parousia of the Lord" (1Thess 4:15-17) this event (which is not a "taking out of the world" as is commonly taught to mislead the sheep of the Lord; but a "meeting in the air") occurs- well, it occurs when the apostle says it does- at the parousia of the Lord. The apostle then teaches at 2 Thess 2:8 that the parousia of the Lord is a "bright shining" event which "destroys the wicked"; the second coming of the Lord Jesus Christ with all of his holy angels to destroy by fire, as is taught in the opening of the 2nd letter:

2Thes 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

2Thes 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his parousia:

The scripture shows that all who teach a "taking out of the world" are the same false prophets who raised up against the Word of the Lord by Jeremiah, and that they teach "rebellion against the Lord" in trying to teach people to hope in a false escape, and to trust in a lie, to not face the coming of the King of Confusion prepared to the judgment of Jerusalem:

Jer 27:10 For they prophesy a lie unto you, to remove you far from your land; and that I should drive you out, and ye should perish. Therefore hearken not unto the words of the prophets that speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon: for they prophesy a lie unto you. For I have not sent them, saith the LORD, yet they prophesy a lie in my name; that I might drive you out, and that ye might perish, ye, and the prophets that prophesy unto you. Then said the prophet Jeremiah unto Hananiah the prophet, Hear now, Hananiah; The LORD hath not sent thee; but thou makest this people to trust in a lie. 16 Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, I will cast thee from off the face of the earth: this year thou shalt die, because thou hast taught rebellion against the LORD.

 

[Cobb]

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. 33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

To quickly add here that it's important to understand that "the Father" is in reference to God operating through the old covenant, while "the Son" is God operating through the new covenant; and it is only by the operation of the old covenant that one will find the timing revealed; in the new covenant you will find the timing fulfilled. This is why Jesus fulfilled the appointed Spring harvest timing, Passover through Pentecost, at the culmination of the first coming, and why He will fulfilled the appointed Fall harvest timing, Trumpets through the Last Day, at the culmination of the second coming (as shown through the Revelation).

But the main point here being that it is the old covenant through which the day-month timing is revealed.

 

[Cobb]

Here is an illsutration of the main timings (note that entire lines such as the full one and one-half-year campaign of the King of Confusion cannot be illustrated on the calendar, but I've noted the starting point of the 10th day of the 10th month):

 

[Stephen63]

Are you the same Mr.Cobb who posted at http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread838359/pg1 ?

 

[Cobb]

Are you the same Mr.Cobb who posted at http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread838359/pg1 ?

Indeed it is I visit a great many places. If you see someone on a forum focused on the biblical day-month timing and going by "Cobb", "MrCobb", "John Cobb", "JS Cobb" etc. then it's more than likely to be me doing the rounds. It's called inception.

By the way, thanks for reminding me of that; and remember the 10th day of the 10th month = the King of Confusion and all his host. NOT the King of Peace and all his saints.

 

[Stephen63]

Are you also a member of the United Church of God?

 

[Cobb]

Are you also a member of the United Church of God?

No. I wouldn't set foot in one of the "churches" of men save to overturn the tables. No, the body to which I belong cannot be found in the Yellow Pages under "churches" but can only be found in the pages of the scripture.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Mt 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and [he] to whom soever the Son will reveal [him.]

Still trying to understand it well myself...

All things are delivered unto me of my Father (you are to go get them all): and no man knoweth the Son (in the role of Son), but the Father (who is the only one that can understand Him being "His own son"); neither knoweth any man the Father (as Yeshua or as an adopted sibling of Yeshua might know), save the Son, and [he] to whom soever the Son will reveal (one at a time saying - you can come live with us. let me tell you about my dad)

 

[SPUZIT]

Just need to say sorry - I jumped between sites, I apologize if my post to this site came thru, W's unintentional. Thanks