truth from error let us seperate it

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homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,100
124
63
#1
"What lies behind us, and whatlies

Before us are small matters

Compared to what lies withinus."

- Ralph Waldo Emerson
So each ofus might need to look at what is it that does lay with in us. If you are abeliever in God, the Son of God (Jesus Christ) and the comforter (Holy Ghost)
Do youbelieve that you are to become perfect as God is perfect? There is a scriptureon this before the death of Christ which would clearly put this as a yes I must work at being saved, I needto perfect my flesh so God will accept me. Is the above true
Matthew5:47-48 New King James Version (NKJV) 47 And if you greet your brethren only,what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven isperfect.


Matthew19:20-22 New King James Version (NKJV)
20 The youngman said to Him, “All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I stilllack?”
21 Jesus said to him, “Ifyou want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to thepoor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he wentaway sorrowful, for he had great possessions
Now let uslook further has anyone of you reading here perfectedyour flesh at all,now remember thepassages I am putting down here are before the death of Christ while he walkedthis earth, prior to the new covenant that took place after his death.Now what he told this man that had great possessions in order to go to heaven he needed to giveeverything up for he claimed he had obeyed the law from birth, yet he walkedaway very sad he could not go that far to give up his worldly possessions. He could not be perfect in and of himselfand no one can and Jesus revealed this deeply
Jesus alsowhile walking this earth said many hard things like
Matthew 5:30
And if yourright hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is moreprofitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body tobe cast into hell.
Matthew 18:8
“If yourhand or foot causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you. It is betterfor you to enter into life lame or maimed, rather than having two hands or twofeet, to be cast into the everlasting fire.
Matthew 5:29
If yourright eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is moreprofitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body tobe cast into hell.
Are you listening under the Law of MosesJesus expands on the severity of the Law, showing you, me and all that wantsalvation how to get it through the Law. Pretty severe yeah!!!! It is a must to beperfect as God is perfect
This aboveis under the Law people and the stringency of it, and today we as the people of this Nation are mixing Lawand Grace. We areaccepting Grace and saying thanks, then believing the lie from the devil as inhow we are to be perfect as God is perfect
The problem here is that man has interpreted thisas our flesh has to become perfect and we sin no more, then God will accept us. Well you just read thestringency and cut off this and that so you can enter Heaven. So under the lawand cutting off we will end up as a torso. Now do not think that I am saying the law is bad forit is not bad. The Lawis true, just and holy. The problem with the Law is that my flesh that I wasborn with is weak and cannot obey the law in its entirety. You know our carnal nature might get9 out of ten Laws down, yet the requirement of the Law is miss none get all ofthem right and human flesh can’t. Itis like trying to hold ten apples under water at the same time using only oneshands. So do you agree it isimpossible to be perfect from Human flesh?
So how doesone make perfection this is what the disciples were hearing from Jesus if youwant to go to heaven become perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect? All theway down to the rich man that said he had obeyed the Law from birth, and Jesussaid he lacked one thing give up his riches and follow him.
Now let uslook at the Matthew 5:47-48 again and notice it Jesus states therefore you shall be perfectjust as your Heavenly Father in Heaven is perfect
Okay Ialready have found out that there is no way I can be perfect through trying tobe perfect.
Using theten apples as an example I could get nine apples under the water at one time,and every time I would go for the tenththe other nine, sometimes less would pop back up and I would be back at squareone trying to be perfect to get God to acceptme, for I knew that in order to get to Heaven I had to be perfect. What a ridethis was to get to perfection as our heavenly father who is in Heaven is!!!
I finally gaveup trying to accomplish perfection; I just could not complete it, how about anyof you reading this? I still want to and yet can’t so what did Jesus mean whenhe said THEREFORE YOU SHALL BE PERFECT. Now again this was before the cross thedeath of Christ. And the Law was still in place and through this understandingof cut off your hand, foot, gouge out your eye and obey the law in its entiretyand there was one that said he did, but he could not give up his worldlytreasures, and left very sad.
Now the disciples hearing all this are destroyed inthinking about ever going to heaven seeing they are not perfect and wonderinghow can they ever be?
So theyasked Jesus straight out how is it possible for anyone to get into heaven?
Jesus’sanswer: Matthew 19:25-26
New KingJames Version (NKJV)
25 When Hisdisciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can besaved?”
26 But Jesuslooked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”
So by and through God the Father it is possiblefor one to be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect.
So now whatdo you think, since we now know that no one no not one can be perfect ofthemselves for it is impossible with man to be perfect as Jesus said?
But all itis possible with God, WOW! Let us look at other scripture before the death ofChrist
Matthew 5 NewKing James Version (NKJV)
TheBeatitudes
5 And seeingthe multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciplescame to Him. 2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:
3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessedare those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessedare the meek,
For they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessedare those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessedare the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessedare the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessedare the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessedare those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 “Blessed are you when they revile andpersecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for sothey persecuted the prophets who were before you.
None ofthese things Jesus said to the people were filled in them as of yet, for he saidshall be filled, and then when filled they will know they are blessed, so doyou desire any or all of the sayings above? Then let us move on to be filledand perfect as our heavenly Father is perfect in heaven.
First let ussee scripture showing us where we are at today in history. We are after thecross right? Now what took place at the cross? First the death and what tookplace at the death?
Hebrews9:15-17 New King James Version (NKJV)
15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the newcovenant, by means of death, for the redemptionof the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

TheMediator’s Death Necessary for the new covenant

16 For wherethere is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of thetestator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has nopower at all while the testator lives.
What is thisnew covenant? How are we the believers being viewed from God the Father in thisnew covenant? Are we being dealt with under the Old Covenant since the cross ofChrist by God the Father?
NewCovenant:
Hebrews9:23-28
23 Thereforeit was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should bepurified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrificesthan these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands,which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us;25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the MostHoly Place every year with blood of another— 26 He then would have had tosuffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put awaysin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointedfor men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear thesins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart fromsin, for salvation.
Christ tookit all at the cross all the sin so nowunder this new covenant God the Father of Christ does what on the day youbelieve what do you receive?
Hebrews 10 NewKing James Version (NKJV)
AnimalSacrifices Insufficient, and one’s conscience needs purged
10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things tocome, and not the very image of the things, can never with these samesacrifices, which they offer continually year by year,make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified,would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But inthose sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it isnot possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
Neither willrepenting over and over take away sins having a conscience of sins just keepsthem coming day after day after day, until Christ purges your conscience fromsin through the new covenant provided for you through the cross
Christ’sDeath Fulfills God’s Will
5 Therefore,when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrificeand offering you did not desire,
But a body youhave prepared for Me.
6 In burntofferings and sacrifices for sin
You had nopleasure.
7 Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it iswritten of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”

8 Previouslysaying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin you didnot desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law),9 then He said, “Behold, I have come to do your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establishthe second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of thebody of Jesus Christ once for all.
Are any ofyou hearing what the Spirit is saying, He at the cross took away the first thathe may establish the second and by this we those that believe have been sanctifiedby the body of Jesus once and for all. So please give up trying to be good andreceive the sanctification by faith in Christ Jesus and thus by no effort ofyour own, you ask by Faith in Christ God the Father to live through you now andforever more instead of just in you, as what has happened to most of us, by usworking for our salvation, our flesh being in the way for God the Fatherthrough the Holy Ghost when we are doing this can’t live through us, becauseFather is not a tyrant, he lo9ves us and gave us all free choice, so it is yourfree choice to ask Father to not only live in you but better than that through youand then you can rest in him, not worried any longer about what or how you are todo, for in this one’s conscience is purged from sin.
Christ’sDeath Perfects the Sanctified

11 And every priest stands ministering daily andoffering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice forsins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting tillHis enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those whoare being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnessesto us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with themafter those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and intheir minds I will write them,” 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds Iwill remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there isno longer an offering for sin.
There is nomore offering at all for any sins committed whether willful or not it is doneGod the Father has put all sins behind his back never to see again. This wayFather can deal with each one on the basis of a new nature that he has plantedin you via the Holy Ghost. He is now your teacher listen if you believe toFather via the Holy Ghost and you shall know this is truth and this will setyou free all of those sayings in Matthew 5 are now available to receive afterthe death of Christ where this new covenant took place.
If youhunger and thirst for righteousness, today under this new covenant that took placeat the cross at the death of Christ is available for you to have by belief notby your works, by belief that all the bible is filled in Christ who is the headof all principalities and powers, and you by Faith (belief) in Christ are safeno matter what this world throws at you, God promised to supply al your needsnot necessarily your wants, your actual needs.
Are you andme going to trust God no matter what this world throws at us, no matter whatothers say. Do you believe that God by his Love has accomplished salvation foryou through his Son Jesus Christ?
Do you still or did you ever believe that you have todo the work to be perfect and pleasing to God? Thisis only true under the First Covenant
Or do you nowbelieve that through your Faith in Christ that God will and does perform thework through you, you being God’s vessel?
This is thenew covenant where God by your belief made you perfect in his sight by and throughhis Son Christ Jesus.
Love you allhoping for all to come to this miraculous salvation in appreciation to such awonderful God.
Homwardbound
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#2
In a nut shell, the exchanged life is Christ living His life through us, rather than us trying to make life work through our own efforts and resources. It is made possible by the believer's union with Christ in His death, burial and resurrection (Romans 6-8).

God created man with certain essential, or basic, needs. Among them are the need to be loved and accepted and to have value and worth. The moment you are born, you are driven to get these needs met. The unique ways in which you try to meet your basic God-given needs for love, acceptance, value and worth is your "flesh."

Your particular versions of flesh are the unique ways that you have lived by and depended on to meet your needs. Your flesh "patterns" were developed based on the messages that you received about yourself as you were growing up. These messages helped form your "identity."

It is you trying to meet your needs independent of Christ with the only resources you have available to you: your mind, will, emotions and your physical body. The flesh is the primary thing that hinders us from knowing and experiencing the victorious Christian life. Living in the flesh is also known as the self-life.

Because we are all born in Adam, born without the life or God in our spirits and thus spiritually dead to God, we are forced to live out of our resources. As a result of dealing with the impossibility of getting our needs met, we are driven to make up for this deficiency. The desire to have our needs met is so great that it consumes our energy; we become solely focused on that longing. We become thoroughly and intensely self-centered in our quest for love, acceptance, value and significance.

The final result of being born spiritually dead is the loss of identity. We were created to have the life of God within us, (in our human spirit) yet are brought into the world without it. Therefore, our very reason for existence is not apparent to us. We are born in a condition of not knowing who we are, but being driven to find out.

There are only 2 kinds of inner life, Adam-life or Christ-life (Romans 5:14-19). All of us are born with Adam-life; a spirit without the life of God. It was the life of God that Adam lost in the garden. Therefore, our sins are not our only problem, but rather the dead spirit within. The blood of Christ washes away our sin, but it does not wash away the Adam-life.

How can this inner life be changed? Our dead spirit is not to be patched up but put to death and exchanged for a new life. That inner dead spirit cannot be changed. It has been exchanged. Galatians 2:20 states, "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and delivered Himself up for me."

This is what happens when a person is born again; he receives the life of Christ. He is no longer the same type of human, possessing Adam-life, but is a child of God, acquiring the life of Christ, and thus a new creation, and one with a new identity.

We believe the Scriptures that Christ was crucified for us. Do we not also believe the same Scriptures that teach we were crucified with Christ? God has created something completely new inside of you. This is a spiritual reality, not just positional truth. That is your true identity.

"If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake, he is the one who will save it." Jesus says the way to life is through death, and if anyone is to follow Him, they must deny self.

Note: Here's the link to the website where I found this article. I have not yet fully researched this site or it's operators in order to give it a personal endorsement. However, the article itself is sound.

Exchanged Life Ministries Texas
 
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Semaj

Guest
#3
So in summary you're all saying that Jesus dying on the cross replaces his teachings because his teachings were Old Covenant?

If we just believe in Jesus and what he did then we don't have to worry about actually doing all the stuff he said to do like plucking out the eye and cutting off the hand?

We just trust that we're perfect already.

This is kind of an interesting teaching.
 
C

Crossfire

Guest
#4
So in summary you're all saying that Jesus dying on the cross replaces his teachings because his teachings were Old Covenant?

If we just believe in Jesus and what he did then we don't have to worry about actually doing all the stuff he said to do like plucking out the eye and cutting off the hand?

We just trust that we're perfect already.

This is kind of an interesting teaching.
Not at all. In fact, I don't see where you are getting that from. The concept is simply this: that if we are going to obey all of Jesus' teachings, that we must be empowered by Christ (the indwelling Holy Spirit) to do so. There's not an ounce of hyper / greasy grace implied in what we are suggesting.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,100
124
63
#5
So in summary you're all saying that Jesus dying on the cross replaces his teachings because his teachings were Old Covenant?

If we just believe in Jesus and what he did then we don't have to worry about actually doing all the stuff he said to do like plucking out the eye and cutting off the hand?

We just trust that we're perfect already.

This is kind of an interesting teaching.
What Jesus's purpose was to fullfill, the Old Covenant law and bring in a new covenant where God the Father can now live in us and teach us through love that gets shed abroad in our hearts. We have a before and an after the cross. Now please understand that the Old covenant the Law was never given to us the Gentile it was given to the first chosen and Jesus came to fill this law for them because not a one of them could ever be perfect for the law of Moses showed them this by sacrifices they did year after year. We do not even do sacrifices or shedding of blood for forgiveness they did. But we do continuously sin because we have been so vigorously made consciously aware of sin that all we do is continue in it in the privacy of our own homes mostly and in our consciences a lot. I just said why this is because we are aware and try to not, therefore we do sin Romans 6, 7, and 8 do a good job explaining this.
Christ came to take away the sin of the world John 1:29 is the witness that this was to take place, first in his Father's sight so Father through the Holy Ghost could come and live in you the day you believed (Ephesians 1:13) in God and shed his love abroad in your heart and thus you react in thank you, thank you and praise you oh Lord!!!! but then the worldly way creeps in and your thoughts (focus) goes back to being aware of sin and your conscience is convicted by the devils of this world and thus because of the flesh which is weak sin takes occassion by the commandment by one accepting the thought of law in ones mind, this is one of the firey darts from the devil, put on the armor, participate in it (Ephesians 6) and quit participating in the thought of sin, for from God's vantage point has taken it all away so you can have a new life in him thanking and praising him for what he did through his Son, now knowing that no matter what your needs will somehow by God be taken care of so quit the worry and cast all cares upon him, and you will work out of love knowing that alll needs will be supplied. no more worries because you now have faith in him to carry on the good work he began in you,no more faith in self will.
Here is scripture fullfill Matthew 5:17 then he went out and prooved whom he was by the miracles and prooved that no one can obey the law and make it to heaven yet it was still required to be perfect, so through the cross the dividing line of human history before and after new covenant after / old covenant law before now through belief in the finished work of the fullfillment of law and prophets Christ yells this from the cross (John 19:30) and then gives up the Ghost and dies. What took place at the death? A new covenant Hebrews 9:15-17. where are all sin and lawless acts today for the ones that have come to belief in Christ Jesus from God the Father's vantage point? Hebrews 10:17
Is this good news? so how will you react thankfully and then what? forget about it? aprreciate it until the end of your life here on earth and be forever with him then as he stayed with you here on earth never forsaking you or leavinng you. Or just say who cares I got a life here and now. These all are each and everyone's free choice. Mine is I am overwhelmed by this love that is poured out for all to recieve carrying it with me every day in thankfulness, and passing this onto you in glory for God. If ones conscience is purged from sin by God at the cross of Christ then one will be so busy with the love that there is no time for the old man any longer. Now the devils of this world will do there best to break in and cause one to sin or have iniquity and can only do this through ones thought(s) of sin or iniquity, and these demoms that do this have strongholds on the body (flesh) through puberty that came on all of us when we became of age. So no wonder God says to humble ourselves back as a child. This would be before puberty came upon us. All sorts of evil springs forth from the day of physical maturity. many control it, except behind closed doors, and many have gone to God and have had their minds renewed by God not man
Romans 12 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. [SUP]2 [/SUP]And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
Now i know that I can't present my body Holy and acceptable to God because I am not Holy. But , you or anyone else can just give him our body as it is and trust him to fix it here and now,
guess what once anyone does this then their mind is being renewed as well at the same time, for God through ones belief fixes you immediately, then over time as you grow in renewing your mind you see this love shed abroad about in you and you just can't help but to love. Therefore there is no law against love LOVe goes on FOREVER AND EVER
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
15,100
124
63
#6
Not at all. In fact, I don't see where you are getting that from. The concept is simply this: that if we are going to obey all of Jesus' teachings, that we must be empowered by Christ (the indwelling Holy Spirit) to do so. There's not an ounce of hyper / greasy grace implied in what we are suggesting.
Thank you Crossfire, yes
By no means are we flaunting grace to be taken advantage of, for God by belief implants his righteousness in us those that believe ans we are to work us getting out of the way soGod does not only live in us but more importantly thorugh us and there is where God gets all the glory