Were the old/first testament believers born again?

[4enlightment]

I have heard of a teaching that after Jesus died on the cross, before He rose, He went to Abraham's bosom/paradise or where the righteous were from the OT, there He revealed Himself and preached to them and set those captives free. So if this is so then to me that is when they were born again.

I'm just bringing in some understanding. The Jews had believed that Abraham was God, for they had thought that this world was the kingdom of God; that is why they had used Abraham as the one that Lazarus in his bosom and that is why that they had came up with the ideal that hell is a place that is underneath of the earth and which they has known about the molting lava underneath the ground also. So this tale has been spreaded throughout the land in which Rome was ruler over them. They all very much had thought that this is the kingdom of God that Abraham was going to send the messiah with whips and chains to judge the wicked and give them their land back and which they'll be comforted in the arms of Abraham. That is how far gone the scriptures that they has forgotten whom was God and whom was Abraham while they were in captivity.

 

[Graybeard]

I'm just bringing in some understanding. The Jews had believed that Abraham was God, .

where is it in Scripture that the Jews thought Abraham was God??

 

[A-Omega]

where is it in Scripture that the Jews thought Abraham was God??

.......

LOL

 

[4enlightment]

where is it in Scripture that the Jews thought Abraham was God??

Matthew 3:9And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

 

[A-Omega]

The Gospel was preached by GOD, in Genesis 3:15. And that was to the first 2 human beings ever created. Since that time, every person has the chance to put their faith in Chris for salvation.

 

[Graybeard]

Matthew 3:9And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

note that "father" is in small caps....The Jews believed(and rightly so)that they were descendants of Abraham, not that he was their God.

 

[homwardbound]

A question I still have questions on.

By Faith in God they were accounted to as righteous from God. The Spirit di not live in those of the Old, visited upon the Prophets that spoke of the coming savior. So we have an old and a new, but the same promise that was made to Abraham remained intact, and we had an Abraham's bosom before the cross ever took place and afterwards all that beleive as Abraham did are now in the presence oif the Lord forever more
Old Testament Saints waited in trust on the coming Savior Christ
Job
Job 19:25For I know that my Redeemer lives, And He shall stand at last on the earth;
King david
Psalm 100:4Enter into his gates with thanksgiving, and into his courts with praise: be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

These are just two of the Old Testament Saints that beleived God before the cross came and were looking forward to it.
Then we have this before the cross as Jesus walked tihs earth
[h=3]Luke 16:19-31[/h]King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day:
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:
[SUP]28 [/SUP]For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Now after the cross all is changed no more Abraham's bosom, For since he is risen as last verse states, for the christ is what all scripture has spoken of
No one was born again until the day of Pentecost, saved yes for all those that beleived God, put the Holy Ghost Babtism had not been put in place yet
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

the Babtism John spoke of is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost and this happened at Pentecost
[h=3]Acts 1:5[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”

Anyway jkust my twocents of what I see from Scripture

 

[4enlightment]

note that "father" is in small caps....The Jews believed(and rightly so)that they were descendants of Abraham, not that he was their God.

So if that is the case then why did Jesus had to informed them that from these stones, God can raised children for abraham; Shouldn't the Jews already should have known that, since they has known that we have came from the ground? Or did they had known that? If they were ruled by Rome and before that by two more kingdoms, maybe they had given up on God, or some of their sacred text has been destroyed while in captivity? remember they were slaves not royalty.They didn't even know how to speak their native tongue, because at the cross Jesus was calling out Eloi, Eloi and they had thought that He was calling out to Elijah in which it will sound the same to someone that didn;t know how to speak the language that the Hebrew ( Habiru) had spoken.

 

[Graybeard]

So if that is the case then why did Jesus had to informed them that from these stones, God can raised children for abraham; Shouldn't the Jews already should have known that, since they has known that we have came from the ground? Or did they had known that? If they were ruled by Rome and before that by two more kingdoms, maybe they had given up on God, or some of their sacred text has been destroyed while in captivity? remember they were slaves not royalty.They didn't even know how to speak their native tongue, because at the cross Jesus was calling out Eloi, Eloi and they had thought that He was calling out to Elijah in which it will sound the same to someone that didn;t know how to speak the language that the Hebrew ( Habiru) had spoken.

let us first establish that they(Jews)knew that they were descendants of Abraham:

Joh 8:33 They (the Jews) answered Him (Jesus), "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, 'You will be made free'?"
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
Joh 8:35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
Joh 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Joh 8:37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.

Here is what Barnes says about the verse you ask, which I think is a good explanation:

They regarded it as sufficient righteousness that they were descended from so holy a man as Abraham. Compare Joh_8:33-37, Joh_8:53. John assured them that this was a matter of small consequence in the sight of God. Of the very stones of the Jordan he could raise up children to Abraham. The meaning seems to be this: God, from these stones, could more easily raise up those who should be worthy children of Abraham, or be like him, than simply, because you are descendants of Abraham, make you, who are proud and hypocritical, subjects of the Messiah’s kingdom. Or, in other words, mere nativity, or the privileges of birth, avail nothing where there is not righteousness of life. Some have supposed, however, that by these stones he meant the Roman soldiers, or the pagan, who might also have attended on his ministry; and that God could “of them” raise up children to Abraham.

 

[RedTent]

They were the people God created to show us who God is. God says they are His chosen. There has been something strange about them, even since the resurrection. Their history is one of persecution ever since they denied Christ, yet we are told they were blinded for our sakes. They will figure prominently in the last days and we will follow them. It is all beyond the way that man thinks, God is the only one who knows their fate. They have stayed a separate race, never assimilated completely, even without a county all these years.

Even without knowing that God sent Christ for their salvation, their faithful have led the world in leading a holy life. The gentile life is lukewarm, you can hardly even tell their Sabbath from the rest of the week except for a church service. The faithful Hebrew includes everyday routines as part of his worship, we don't. I think we can absolutely bank on that God will be faithful to them.

They did not have Christ as he fulfilled God's promises 2,000 years ago, but they had atonement through a symbol of the blood of Christ.

 

[4enlightment]

let us first establish that they(Jews)knew that they were descendants of Abraham:

Joh 8:33 They (the Jews) answered Him (Jesus), "We are Abraham's descendants, and have never been in bondage to anyone. How can You say, 'You will be made free'?"
Joh 8:34 Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
Joh 8:35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
Joh 8:36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
Joh 8:37 "I know that you are Abraham's descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you.

Here is what Barnes says about the verse you ask, which I think is a good explanation:

They regarded it as sufficient righteousness that they were descended from so holy a man as Abraham. Compare Joh_8:33-37, Joh_8:53. John assured them that this was a matter of small consequence in the sight of God. Of the very stones of the Jordan he could raise up children to Abraham. The meaning seems to be this: God, from these stones, could more easily raise up those who should be worthy children of Abraham, or be like him, than simply, because you are descendants of Abraham, make you, who are proud and hypocritical, subjects of the Messiah’s kingdom. Or, in other words, mere nativity, or the privileges of birth, avail nothing where there is not righteousness of life. Some have supposed, however, that by these stones he meant the Roman soldiers, or the pagan, who might also have attended on his ministry; and that God could “of them” raise up children to Abraham.

They said that they weren't slave but Rome had control them and before Rome, it were the Persians and the Babylonians; in which proves they had lost records of their history. They has gotten so accustomed to the ways of the Romans that they didn't even know that they were in bondage. This shows that Rome ways were their ways also.

 

[4enlightment]

If a child is born in prison, they'll never know that they are in prison.

 

[Graybeard]

They said that they weren't slave but Rome had control them and before Rome, it were the Persians and the Babylonians; in which proves they had lost records of their history. They has gotten so accustomed to the ways of the Romans that they didn't even know that they were in bondage. This shows that Rome ways were their ways also.

If a child is born in prison, they'll never know that they are in prison.

knock youself out...I'v given you biblical facts......
and with the sayings of Forist Gump...."that's all I have to say about tha_at"

 

[4enlightment]

knock youself out...I'v given you biblical facts......
and with the sayings of Forist Gump...."that's all I have to say about tha_at"

If you cannot see what they were saying about them not being in bondage and which it is recorded in history in our time, and which we all know that they were in bondage; So the scriptures is showing that they didn't know nothing about their history and God. Can you even see that it doesn't make any sense why they were using Abraham as refuge.
And I've already know the spiritual concept of being free.

 

[crossnote]

In the OT was there any mention or teaching on'being born from above/again or they just were and didn't know ?
Was this why Nicodemus was unaware?
Was Pentecost's 'receiving/baptism of the Spirit' associated with being born again or was it an additional event?

Let me bump this up since it looks like only one person attempted to answer the third question.

 

[4enlightment]

If you cannot see what they were saying about them not being in bondage and which it is recorded in history in our time, and which we all know that they were in bondage; So the scriptures is showing that they didn't know nothing about their history and God. Can you even see that it doesn't make any sense why they were using Abraham as refuge.
And I've already know the spiritual concept of being free.

Matthew 22
23 That same day the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to him with a question.24 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses told us that if a man dies without having children, his brother must marry the widow and raise up offspring for him. 25 Now there were seven brothers among us. The first one married and died, and since he had no children, he left his wife to his brother. 26 The same thing happened to the second and third brother, right on down to the seventh. 27 Finally, the woman died.28 Now then, at the resurrection, whose wife will she be of the seven, since all of them were married to her?”
29 Jesus replied, “You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures or the power of God. 30 At the resurrection people will neither marry nor be given in marriage; they will be like the angels in heaven. 31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not the God of the dead but of the living.”

Why has they did not know anything about the resurrection?

Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead" (Isaiah 26:19).

2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

"I know that my redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And . . . in my flesh shall I see God" (Job 19:25-26).

 

[homwardbound]

When was the lamb of God slain? Was it in the 1st century as seen through man’s perspective?

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Or was He really slain “before the foundation of the world” as God’s Word demonstrates?

Remember even before the crucixion Christ expected Nicodemus to understand the principle of being born again. Why would Christ expect Nicodemus to understand thi before the crucifixion if one could not be born agin before the crucifixion?.

Joh 3:3-11 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.



Once again look at it from God’s perspective not man’s. If the lamb was slain before the foundation of the world, then why couldn’t the Holy spirit also have been given then too? It would be hard to deny the fact that Holy Spirit was in the world before Pentecost or that Old Testament saints couldn’t receive the Holy Spirit.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Isn’t the spirit of God the Holy Spirit?

Exo 31:2 See, I have called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah: And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Exo 35:30 And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah; And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;

1Sa 10:10 And when they came thither to the hill, behold, a company of prophets met him; and the Spirit of God came upon him, and he prophesied among them.

1Sa 11:6 And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly.

2Ch 15:1 And the Spirit of God came upon Azariah the son of Oded:

Job 27:3 All the while my breath is in me, and the spirit of God is in my nostrils;

And the list goes on and on………..

Aren’t those who are born again and filled with the spirit given a new heart or a circumcision of the heart?

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:
Eze 18:31 Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?
Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.






Isa 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
Sometimes we have to remember to look at things from God’s perspective, not man’s. Rest assured the Old Testament saints were born again and could receive salvation just like you and I can. Christ did not lie when He said only those born again will see the kingdom of God. It’s never been about adhering to the law, it has always been about placing ones faith in Christ. and 1Cor10:1-4 shows both Old and New Testaments drink and eat from the same Rock and that Rock is Christ!


1Co 10:1-4 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

The diffrance today I see is that in the Old testament the Spirit of God visited and did not live in them. Today after the cross the Holy Spirit lives in the ones that believe that God has accepted themby their true faith with no malice, all others just do a pretty good act Job of masquerading as if they belong and really do not. There are flesh works and Spiritual works from God.
Myself I choose God's Spiritual works to do the work needed through me, as in the Old God did not live in them yet they still heard God and all those were saved for the day of christ's physical actions here going to thecross and finishing the work, opening up the truth of God's Mercy to all here today

 

[Bookends]

The implications of Jesus' death and resurrection was proactive to those before the actual event to those who had faith in God, and IMO, even to those who didn't fully understand all the details (but the knew a deliverer was coming).

 

[homwardbound]

In the OT was there any mention or teaching on'being born from above/again or they just were and didn't know ?
Was this why Nicodemus was unaware?
Was Pentecost's 'receiving/baptism of the Spirit' associated with being born again or was it an additional event?

1 Peter 3:19by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison,
[h=3]God’s Righteousness Through Faith[/h][SUP]21 [/SUP]But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [SUP]22 [/SUP]even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; [SUP]23 [/SUP]for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [SUP]24 [/SUP]being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, [SUP]25 [/SUP]whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, [SUP]26 [/SUP]to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

So the whole world became justified all sins were taken away at the cross by the death, and life, new life inthe spirit of God came by the resurrection, which we that are alive today are to see this resurrection and thus we will walk in the newness of life, Born again into the Spirit of God, but first the death of christ had to remove the disease that caused death first, which was sin

 

[homwardbound]

Let me bump this up since it looks like only one person attempted to answer the third question.

The being born again woith the Spirit of god actually livinig in us is new and had never yet happened prior to the dayof Pentecost
Mark 1:8I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 1:5for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 11:16Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, ‘John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’