Were the Pharisees questioning Food or the Tradition of Washing?

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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#1
There are only a few scriptures people have tried to used to say God’s Dietary laws were done away with. The vision that Peter had is one of them. But upon close examination of the scriptures you will find that Peter’s vision had NOTHING to do with God's dietary laws. Here is just a sample below;


“…but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.”


Now how in the world can someone come away with God's dietary laws being done away with, from the above scripture?

At no point was Peter’s vision ever about doing away with God’s dietary laws. But that is another post.

For now let's deal with the question presented;

Did the question the scribes and Pharisees asked of Jesus have anything to do with God's dietary laws, or was it just about His disciples not washing their hands? Some will try to say God has done away with His dietary laws based upon the conversations about the washing of hands. But as we will learn from this post, that is just not the case. Let’s read, with understanding, just what was being discussed.

Matt.15
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

From the very beginning we can clearly read that the topic being discussed here is NOT about food. The problem the Pharisees have with Jesus disciples is the fact that they are eating bread without washing their hands. Let’s confirm this in yet a different book;

Mark 7
[1] Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
[2] And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

So Mark concluded that the conversation also had nothing to do with God's dietary laws. Again we see the problem is not with WHAT they are eating, but with the fact that the disciples are not washing their hands. Now let’s look at the 2nd verse closer;

“And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.”

Above we are given what the word “defiled”, means according to the context of this verse. Defiled - “that is to say, with unwashen hands.” At NO point was their discussion EVER about food. Now let’s confirm it just one more time;

[3] For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

So ALL of the Jews held this practice of washing their hands “oft”, or often, or they did not eat their food. Now was this a tradition of God? NO! Just as the verse said; “holding the tradition of the elders.” So this was NOT something that God told them must be done. This was a tradition of “man”. Now let’s read to see if it was just the washing of hands that had become a tradition of the “elders”.

[4] And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

So it wasn’t just hand washing these Jews of the day was consumed with. The Jews of the day had made a big deal about washing EVERYTHING; “…cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.”

But at what point is FOOD ever mentioned? In all of this conversation at what point did God’s dietary laws ever come up? At what point did FOOD ever come up? It DIDN’T!

Can the scriptures be any more clear on the topic of conversation of the Pharisees and the problem they had with Jesus disciples?

“Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.”

Can the scriptures be any more plain about how the word “defiled” is used?

“…some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands,…”

Now that we know the subject of the conversation AND the definition of the word “defiled”, as used in the context of the verse, let’s now read Jesus reply;


Matt.15
[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

We know the subject here is about, “unwashed hands”. So is Jesus speaking about the type of food being consumed, or the fact that a man eating with unwashed hands does not harm him? The answer is obvious. Jesus is speaking about the very thing the Jews of the day had made a big deal about, the washing of hands. But let’s confirm this. Let’s see if Jesus told His disciples something different when they came to Him in private about the same matter;

[12] Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

It seem the Pharisees got a little upset when Jesus put them in their place and said all of their tradition of washing everything meant nothing. Let’s continue;

[15] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

Understand that Peter and the rest of the disciples had been doing all of these “washing” traditions also, so they wanted to know just what did Jesus mean when he said what He said. Let’s read;

[17] Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

So the things that go into a man’s mouth are expelled.

[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

But it’s what comes out of the mind that defiles man; evil thoughts, murders, adulteries etc. Now let’s read Jesus answer concerning the subject of unwashed hands;

[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Again….eating with unwashed hands does not defileth a man.

Now at what point did Jesus say ANYTHING about His dietary laws being done away with? At what point did Jesus answer include the mentioning of ANY type of food?

A question was asked of Jesus;

“Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.”

And Jesus answered the question; “…but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.”



The subject matter from the very start was about unwashed hands, and that is how Jesus ended and answered the question.

“…but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.”

So...... was the conversation the Pharisees hand with Jesus concerning food, or unwashed hands?

Let's do a quick review;

- Question asked; "Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread." No food mentioned!

- The traditions; "For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders." No food mentioned!

- More traditions; "And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables." No food mentioned!

- Jesus reply; "Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?" No mention of dietary laws being done away with!

- Jesus continued reply; " But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:" No food mentioned!

- Jesus final answer; "These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." No food mentioned! No mentioning of God's dietary laws being done away with!


So how are people getting the notion that God’s dietary laws have been done away with from a conversation about the washing of hands?


Like I said in the beginning....there are only a few places in scripture where people go to try to say God's dietary laws have been done away with.

We just read one of those places above.....but at NO time did Jesus EVER mention God's dietary laws.

That leaves just (2) other places; the vision of Peter and the writings of Paul. And we already know that MOST get the writings of Paul wrong.

Let's read what Peters vision was really about. Post coming soon.



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E

Eccl12and13

Guest
#2
What? No replies? But I thought this was one of those places that people try to use and teach that God's dietary laws have been done away with?


Guess I was wrong!



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L

Laodicea

Guest
#3
There are only a few scriptures people have tried to used to say God’s Dietary laws were done away with. The vision that Peter had is one of them. But upon close examination of the scriptures you will find that Peter’s vision had NOTHING to do with God's dietary laws. Here is just a sample below;


“…but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.”


Now how in the world can someone come away with God's dietary laws being done away with, from the above scripture?

At no point was Peter’s vision ever about doing away with God’s dietary laws. But that is another post.

For now let's deal with the question presented;

Did the question the scribes and Pharisees asked of Jesus have anything to do with God's dietary laws, or was it just about His disciples not washing their hands? Some will try to say God has done away with His dietary laws based upon the conversations about the washing of hands. But as we will learn from this post, that is just not the case. Let’s read, with understanding, just what was being discussed.

Matt.15
[1] Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
[2] Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

From the very beginning we can clearly read that the topic being discussed here is NOT about food. The problem the Pharisees have with Jesus disciples is the fact that they are eating bread without washing their hands. Let’s confirm this in yet a different book;

Mark 7
[1] Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.
[2] And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.

So Mark concluded that the conversation also had nothing to do with God's dietary laws. Again we see the problem is not with WHAT they are eating, but with the fact that the disciples are not washing their hands. Now let’s look at the 2nd verse closer;

“And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.”

Above we are given what the word “defiled”, means according to the context of this verse. Defiled - “that is to say, with unwashen hands.” At NO point was their discussion EVER about food. Now let’s confirm it just one more time;

[3] For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

So ALL of the Jews held this practice of washing their hands “oft”, or often, or they did not eat their food. Now was this a tradition of God? NO! Just as the verse said; “holding the tradition of the elders.” So this was NOT something that God told them must be done. This was a tradition of “man”. Now let’s read to see if it was just the washing of hands that had become a tradition of the “elders”.

[4] And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.

So it wasn’t just hand washing these Jews of the day was consumed with. The Jews of the day had made a big deal about washing EVERYTHING; “…cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables.”

But at what point is FOOD ever mentioned? In all of this conversation at what point did God’s dietary laws ever come up? At what point did FOOD ever come up? It DIDN’T!

Can the scriptures be any more clear on the topic of conversation of the Pharisees and the problem they had with Jesus disciples?

“Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.”

Can the scriptures be any more plain about how the word “defiled” is used?

“…some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands,…”

Now that we know the subject of the conversation AND the definition of the word “defiled”, as used in the context of the verse, let’s now read Jesus reply;


Matt.15
[11] Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

We know the subject here is about, “unwashed hands”. So is Jesus speaking about the type of food being consumed, or the fact that a man eating with unwashed hands does not harm him? The answer is obvious. Jesus is speaking about the very thing the Jews of the day had made a big deal about, the washing of hands. But let’s confirm this. Let’s see if Jesus told His disciples something different when they came to Him in private about the same matter;

[12] Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?

It seem the Pharisees got a little upset when Jesus put them in their place and said all of their tradition of washing everything meant nothing. Let’s continue;

[15] Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.
[16] And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

Understand that Peter and the rest of the disciples had been doing all of these “washing” traditions also, so they wanted to know just what did Jesus mean when he said what He said. Let’s read;

[17] Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?

So the things that go into a man’s mouth are expelled.

[18] But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
[19] For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

But it’s what comes out of the mind that defiles man; evil thoughts, murders, adulteries etc. Now let’s read Jesus answer concerning the subject of unwashed hands;

[20] These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Again….eating with unwashed hands does not defileth a man.

Now at what point did Jesus say ANYTHING about His dietary laws being done away with? At what point did Jesus answer include the mentioning of ANY type of food?

A question was asked of Jesus;

“Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.”

And Jesus answered the question; “…but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.”



The subject matter from the very start was about unwashed hands, and that is how Jesus ended and answered the question.

“…but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.”

So...... was the conversation the Pharisees hand with Jesus concerning food, or unwashed hands?

Let's do a quick review;

- Question asked; "Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread." No food mentioned!

- The traditions; "For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders." No food mentioned!

- More traditions; "And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables." No food mentioned!

- Jesus reply; "Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?" No mention of dietary laws being done away with!

- Jesus continued reply; " But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:" No food mentioned!

- Jesus final answer; "These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man." No food mentioned! No mentioning of God's dietary laws being done away with!


So how are people getting the notion that God’s dietary laws have been done away with from a conversation about the washing of hands?


Like I said in the beginning....there are only a few places in scripture where people go to try to say God's dietary laws have been done away with.

We just read one of those places above.....but at NO time did Jesus EVER mention God's dietary laws.

That leaves just (2) other places; the vision of Peter and the writings of Paul. And we already know that MOST get the writings of Paul wrong.

Let's read what Peters vision was really about. Post coming soon..
Yes, these texts are talking about washing of hands and traditions. These texts mentioned by Jesus does not do away with the dietary Laws.