What actually is the “Law of sin and death?”
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The law of sin and death is the 10 commandments.
The law that is holy and just and good is also the 10 commandments.
The spiritual law is also the 10 commandments.
The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is entirely different and yet the same. It is different in that we don't work at it, but Christ works in us. It is the same in that the fruit of the Spirit that is grown by Christ Jesus is the actual fruit of obedience to the law.
Romans 3:28-31
[FONT="]28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.[/FONT]
The solution isn't to try and separate the laws into what we can do and what we can't do. The solution is rest versus work. The solution is the Spirit vs the flesh.
2 Corinthians 3:6 [FONT="]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/FONT]
The law that is holy and just and good is also the 10 commandments.
The spiritual law is also the 10 commandments.
The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus is entirely different and yet the same. It is different in that we don't work at it, but Christ works in us. It is the same in that the fruit of the Spirit that is grown by Christ Jesus is the actual fruit of obedience to the law.
Romans 3:28-31
[FONT="]28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.[/FONT]
[FONT="]29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:[/FONT]
[FONT="]30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.[/FONT]
The solution isn't to try and separate the laws into what we can do and what we can't do. The solution is rest versus work. The solution is the Spirit vs the flesh.
2 Corinthians 3:6 [FONT="]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/FONT]
Galatians 3:21 [FONT="]Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
[/FONT]You must have a hard time understanding the New Testament.
Hebrews 7:18-19
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Romans 7:10-14
[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]You must have a hard time understanding the New Testament.
Hebrews 7:18-19
[FONT="]18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
Romans 7:10-14
[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
[/FONT]
The law that was given to Moses by GOD to give to the children of Israel Is GOD's perfect standard of righteousness,but men were not able to keep the law perfectly because of the weakness of the flesh,remember where Paul wrote,I delight In the law of GOD Inside but I see another law In my flesh warring against the law of my mind and bringing me Into captivity to the law of sin...
GOD's law Is perfect but man Is carnal and was coming short of the glory of GOD.
So then although GOD's law Is perfect,man was not,and trying to keep GOD's law showed man his sin and death followed.
GOD's law Is perfect but man Is carnal and was coming short of the glory of GOD.
So then although GOD's law Is perfect,man was not,and trying to keep GOD's law showed man his sin and death followed.
You may be misunderstanding this. The "cause" is within mankind, and that is the sin nature inherited from Adam. The Law of God (the Ten Commandments) simply exposes this through its every violation. And death is the consequence or penalty for sin.
The question which needs to be asked is why are death and the second death the penalties for sin? And the answer will be found in the absolute righteousness and holiness of God. Since God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all, sin cannot be tolerated in His presence or in the universe. And that is why God has made full provision for the eradication of sin through Christ and through the New Heavens and the New Earth. In the meantime sin and evil are being tolerated for a season, knowing that with God one thousand years are as one day.
What is happening presently in America and in the world is that evildoers are waxing worse and worse, which means we are very close to the final judgments of God against sin. Which also means that we are very close to the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church, after which Satan will literally take control of this world through the Antichrist. But once again, only for a season ( 3 1/2 years).
The question which needs to be asked is why are death and the second death the penalties for sin? And the answer will be found in the absolute righteousness and holiness of God. Since God is Light, and in Him is no darkness at all, sin cannot be tolerated in His presence or in the universe. And that is why God has made full provision for the eradication of sin through Christ and through the New Heavens and the New Earth. In the meantime sin and evil are being tolerated for a season, knowing that with God one thousand years are as one day.
What is happening presently in America and in the world is that evildoers are waxing worse and worse, which means we are very close to the final judgments of God against sin. Which also means that we are very close to the Resurrection/Rapture of the Church, after which Satan will literally take control of this world through the Antichrist. But once again, only for a season ( 3 1/2 years).
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Not misunderstanding at all. The law of sin and death is from the adversary (Satan) and the law of the spirit of life unto righteousness is from Jesus Christ, The Creator of all things including the spiritual law of His own Father, Almighty God. They (these 2 laws) are certainly 2 different laws that oppose each other. I totally agree with you.
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace." (Romans 8:2-6)
"Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin." (Romans 7:12-14)
I still feel there is a misunderstanding. So we must begin with the Law of Consequences or the Law of Cause and Effect (which God has embedded in this universe). What it simply means is that every effect has a cause, and nothing is merely "accidental". And also that every action has a consequence, whether intended or unintended.
We need to be perfectly clear that Satan is a mere creature, and he has neither the ability not the authority to put any law into place.
So let's go back to Eden, and see that it is God who put the Law of Sin and Death into effect when He gave Adam a command.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen 2:17)
So what do we see here?
CAUSE: Eating of the forbidden fruit = disobedience toGod's command
EFFECT: Certain death (which is ultimately eternal separation from God)
Now where is Satan in this scenario? Absent. And could Satan have compelled Adam and Eve to sin? No. And did Adam knowingly sin? Yes. And thereby he put the Law of Sin and Death into motion, and now every human being suffers the consequences.
We need to be perfectly clear that Satan is a mere creature, and he has neither the ability not the authority to put any law into place.
So let's go back to Eden, and see that it is God who put the Law of Sin and Death into effect when He gave Adam a command.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Gen 2:17)
So what do we see here?
CAUSE: Eating of the forbidden fruit = disobedience toGod's command
EFFECT: Certain death (which is ultimately eternal separation from God)
Now where is Satan in this scenario? Absent. And could Satan have compelled Adam and Eve to sin? No. And did Adam knowingly sin? Yes. And thereby he put the Law of Sin and Death into motion, and now every human being suffers the consequences.
That was the only way GOD would relate to man ,man would have to keep the law perfectly.Man could not keep the law,although the SPIRIT was willing,the flesh was weak,so then,who would be able to keep the law?GOD's perfect standard of righteousness.
Hebrews9:1-9
King James Version(KJV)
1.)Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2.) For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3.)And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4.)Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5.)And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6.) Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7.) But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8.) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9.) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
Hebrews9:1-9
King James Version(KJV)
1.)Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
2.) For there was a tabernacle made; the first, wherein was the candlestick, and the table, and the shewbread; which is called the sanctuary.
3.)And after the second veil, the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of all;
4.)Which had the golden censer, and the ark of the covenant overlaid round about with gold, wherein was the golden pot that had manna, and Aaron's rod that budded, and the tables of the covenant;
5.)And over it the cherubims of glory shadowing the mercyseat; of which we cannot now speak particularly.
6.) Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.
7.) But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:
8.) The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:
9.) Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;
God's law exposes the "law of sin and death." That law was there first, and then God's law entered because of these transgressions that cause sin and death. (why was the spiritual good and holy law added? Galatians 3:19) Far be it from our Lord to desire, and give us the recipe for "sin and death." The adversary of our Lord, and us, desires "sin and death," NOT God Almighty
For the purpose of understanding,follow with me on this,there Is only GOD's law,but GOD's law became a law of sin and death for man because man was not able to keep GOD's law on his own.
GOD's WORD was sent to the earth, manifested In the flesh(JESUS)to be a sacrifice on the behalf of man because after Adam fell,the only way for man to have a relationship with GOD was to be perfect and I mean perfect even In thought and anyone born with a sin nature were weak because of the flesh.The seed of JESUS was not from a man but from the HOLY SPIRIT.
GOD had mercy and Grace was provided and now we have access to this Grace through faith In the WORD that GOD sent manifested In the flesh.
GOD's WORD was sent to the earth, manifested In the flesh(JESUS)to be a sacrifice on the behalf of man because after Adam fell,the only way for man to have a relationship with GOD was to be perfect and I mean perfect even In thought and anyone born with a sin nature were weak because of the flesh.The seed of JESUS was not from a man but from the HOLY SPIRIT.
GOD had mercy and Grace was provided and now we have access to this Grace through faith In the WORD that GOD sent manifested In the flesh.
I like Paul's writings even if they are hard to understand according to Peter. Nevertheless, I do see the point you are making, yet I continue to believe we are talking about 2 opposing laws differing one from another, yet are connected by a discerning non-carnal mind. Let me quote Paul, and then I'll explain what I believe he is presenting.
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)
Obviously the "law of the spirit" conquers the "law of sin and death." Some might say that this is not the law (Torah) according to the Hebrew writings, yet, if we go back one chapter to Romans 7, we see that Paul says the law( Torah) is spiritual, holy (set apart), good and just. Jesus even told the Pharisees that if they didn't believe the writings of Moses they would not believe what He was saying. (John 5) I will add that keeping the law does not bring salvation, only by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. I wanted to make that very clear.
Romans 7:5-7
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Verse 5 is where I think you are coming from. Nevertheless, Paul clarifies that the law is "not" sin. Therefore it cannot be the same as the "law of sin and death." Then he explains that the spiritual aspects of God's law (Torah) illuminated his sin so he would recognize how far he was falling short.
Romans 7:21-25
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (vividly clear there are 2 laws defined)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul is talking about two different laws that are at war with each other, one in His "flesh", and another in his "mind" that serves God. One is the "law of God," and the other is the "law of sin." He makes it clear that the "law of God" exposes the "law of sin and death."
The law in Paul's mind is defined by his words in Acts 24:14..."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"
"For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death." (Romans 8:2)
Obviously the "law of the spirit" conquers the "law of sin and death." Some might say that this is not the law (Torah) according to the Hebrew writings, yet, if we go back one chapter to Romans 7, we see that Paul says the law( Torah) is spiritual, holy (set apart), good and just. Jesus even told the Pharisees that if they didn't believe the writings of Moses they would not believe what He was saying. (John 5) I will add that keeping the law does not bring salvation, only by the grace of God through Jesus Christ. I wanted to make that very clear.
Romans 7:5-7
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Verse 5 is where I think you are coming from. Nevertheless, Paul clarifies that the law is "not" sin. Therefore it cannot be the same as the "law of sin and death." Then he explains that the spiritual aspects of God's law (Torah) illuminated his sin so he would recognize how far he was falling short.
Romans 7:21-25
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. (vividly clear there are 2 laws defined)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP]I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Paul is talking about two different laws that are at war with each other, one in His "flesh", and another in his "mind" that serves God. One is the "law of God," and the other is the "law of sin." He makes it clear that the "law of God" exposes the "law of sin and death."
The law in Paul's mind is defined by his words in Acts 24:14..."But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:"
Read my post again and I pray GOD you will understand that there was only one law but man not able to keep GOD's perfect standard of righteousness(the law) caused another law that you quoted In Romans 7.
The law of the Spirit of life.—A phrase defining more fully the mode in which the union with Christ becomes operative in the believer. It begins by imparting to him the Spirit of Christ; this Spirit creates within him a law; and the result of that law is life—that perfect spiritual vitality which includes within itself the pledge of immortality.
From the law of sin and death.—The direct contrast to the foregoing. Not here the law of Moses, but the power of sin, the corrupt element in our nature, acting upon the soul, and itself erecting a kind of law, saying, “Thou shalt,” where the law of God says “Thou shalt not;” and “Thou shalt not,” where the law of God says “Thou shalt.” The effect of this reign of sin is death—spiritual death—bearing in itself the pledge of eternal death.
Transgression came before the law of God, not the other way around.
"Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions," (Galatinas 3:19a)
"Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come." (Romans 5:14)
"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." (1 John 3:4)
"sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death." (James 1:15b)
I don't know how scripture could make it any more clear.
We have to distinguish two meanings of law. In the stricter sense, it signifies the authoritative expressions of the will of a ruler proposed for the obedience of man; in the wider, almost figurative sense, it means nothing more than the generalised expression of constant similar facts. For instance, objects attract one another in certain circumstances with a force which in the same circumstances is always the same. When that fact is stated generally, we get the law of gravitation. Thus the word comes to mean little more than a regular process. In this context the word is used in a sense much nearer the latter than the former of these two. ‘The law of sin and of death’ cannot mean a series of commandments; it certainly does not mean the Mosaic law. It must either be entirely figurative, taking sin and death as two great tyrants who domineer over men; or it must mean the continuous action of these powers, the process by which they work. These two come substantially to the same idea. The law of sin and of death describes a certain constancy of operation, uniform and fixed, under the dominion of which men are struggling. But there is another constancy of operation, uniform and fixed too, a mighty antagonistic power, which frees from the dominion of the former: it is ‘the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus.’
The 10 commandments were called the ministry of condemnation and of death by Paul. We can trust the life of Christ in us to live godly in this world.
The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12
The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.
The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".
It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
The grace of God "teaches" now in the New Covenant how to deny ungodliness and to live sensibly, righteous and godly in this present age - NOT the law of Moses. Titus 2:11-12
The 10 commandments are called the "letter that kills" and the "ministry of death" - The New Covenant is called the "ministry of the Spirit" that brings Life.
The 10 commandments were called "the ministry of condemnation" - the New Covenant is called "the ministry of righteousness." This is Christ's righteousness given to us that believe.
2 Corinthians 3:6-9 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory.
The law of Moses including the 10 commandments are like an x-ray machine - they show up things that are wrong but the x-ray machine has no power to "fix it".
It just reveals what is wrong. It's the same here for Christ Himself and His life in our new hearts is the only thing that can "fix us" with a transformed live.
I won't deny that the law reveals our sin and guilt. And that which is in our flesh and carnal minds is a killer. If we didn't have the info, we would not have any incentive to reach out to the One who can save. What I believe is that the "law of sin and death" doesn't reveal the necessity to be saved because we don't see why we should. Where there is no law there isn't any sin. Romans 4:15
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