What constitutes a wolf in sheep's clothing?

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know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#61
Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done. (Mat 21:21)

It's Hebrew idioms you may be having trouble with. English has it's own idioms foreigners have trouble with but I wouldn't say God's Word is deceptive ...although our understanding of it comes often short.

I find true that it is not 'how much' faith we have but 'in Whom' have we faith in.

And perhaps Matt 21:21 is illustrating that we truly are those 'of little faith'.
Some of it might have been, but that fig tree was real enough and Jesus said, 'you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree'. Most haven't even done that, myself included. I have cursed lumps and growths in the name of Jesus and they went away, but not a plant to kill it.
The tree could not have been an idiom or metaphor.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#62
Can I ask where you see the double standard between these two verses? Also where do you see it is deceptive? In both verses Jesus is talking about having faith in God. In Matt 21:21 He is not saying literally you can move mountains but using that analogy as having great faith in God. It's an analogy He is using to overcome obstacles in our lives by having faith in God. John 5:24 having faith in Jesus will bring us eternal life. Jesus is actually talking about two separate things dealing with faith. One is actual one is an analogy. No double standard no deception.
I had a little time on my hands, so I wrote a little something up for your post.
How is it a double standard and deceitful?
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Everyone translates this literally. That Jesus meant exactly as it is written. Everlasting means forever. Shall not come into condemnation means no condemnationto them that believe on Jesus. No problem.
However, when it comes to anything above salvation, such as healings or miracles, everyong will automatically put the verse being interpreted in the allagory category.


For example:
Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree,...
I cut this truth short to raise a point.
Verily means truly, and truly means it can stand alone without adding to it to make it the whole council of God.
The promise of God says if you have faith and doubt not you shall do the same thing with a physical tree as Jesus did with the fig tree.
So if the fig tree represents Israel, then we shall do to Israel What Jesus did to the fig tree? I should think not.
The fact is, you haven't His word abiding in you. You are thinking like men, natural men, saying He couldn't mean a physical tree or especially a physical mountain. No that would be impossible.
That would also lay the responsibility on the so called believer. Which it is.


What about this one?
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
No problem, Jesus ment what He said. If you believe on Him you will have everlasting life, but He also said He is the bread of life.
So is the bread of life a type of something?


What about the below verse?
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Most would probably say, this is definitely a type or representation of some sort.
We cannot eat Jesus' flesh and drink His blood, can we? Surely He didn't mean we have to really eat His flesh and drink His blood, did He?
Why not? Are you thinking like men again?
Jesus is called the word of God, not because it is a type of something, but because He IS the word of the living God.
Is the flesh we are to eat and the blood we are to drink just types and kinds of things that make up Jesus in who He is? Or is the word of God really His flesh and the Holy Ghost really His blood, and that IS who He really is and how He is made? And that is what we are to both eat and drink, respectively.


What about this one?
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Here again it starts with a double verily, which cannot make it any more or be a more truthful statement or promise of God.
And Jesus makes a most profound promise to those who believe on Him. That being, that they SHALL do the very same things that He did and even GREATER works than He did, shall those who believe, do.
Please don't be so naive or gullible into thinking that getting people saved tops even some of the things Jesus did.
Greater really means greater, so stop trying to make excuses for your failure by changing what is written to make it fit your actual experiences, as though you are the most holy and righteous thing that walked the earth and that if it doesn't work that way in your life, then it couldn't possibly mean what it says, because it would have to be that way in your life if it was the truth.
Not only that, but He goes on to tell us that if we ask ANYTHING in His name, He will do it. Do you think anything means anything, or only those things that are of His will?
If you say, 'of His will', then you are applying double standard to the word of God. Again, either verily verily means exactly what is stated below it, or you are simply adding to the word what isn't there, thereby changing what it truly is saying. In effect, changing a truth to a lie.


What about this one below?
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
How many times does God have to say something to a person who doubts, before he really believes what He as God has actually said?
Can you paste this in the allegory category?
Could it be that God actually meant what He said, and that you don't have what you desire because you are missing what He said?


Here is yet another promise of God.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
When God says, 'everyone' does He really mean everyone?
When God says, 'shall be given you and receiveth' does He really mean everyone who asks, what they ask, shall be given to them and that they shall receive it, like it is written?
Or is this a type of something also?
Again, double standards and deceiptful to me.
God has said the same thing over and over again, many different ways, and you still don't believe what He said, and continue to make the word of God of none effect because you change the word of God or the truth of His word into a lie. Making it say something it does not say because you can't believe that He really meant what He said.
So how can you say that you are rightly dividing the word of God, when you are changing what He said into something He clearly did not say, making it a lie of the devil, rendering it powerless and making it useless to the believer.


I hear a lot about God will not answer prayer if it isn't in His will.
So what about this verse?
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Can anyone tell me whose will is involved in this promise?
Is this a truthful promise of God, or is it just another one of those half truths that you have to add to, to get the whole council of God?
Mark 11:24 says basically the same thing.
...What things soever ye desire,...
I don't see God's will written in that statement either.
Below is yet another.
Psa 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Psa 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
It is written again, that God WILL give us the desires of our hearts, not His.
When you stop trying to make the word of God say something it is not saying, then and only then can you even start to receive the actual truth of God's word.
It is written,
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
How many witnesses do you need before it is established within you, before you actually believe the word of God or what He said and stop changing it into a lie of the devil?
Again, I see what most of you are doing with the word of God as deceiptful, at the very least, but most certainly showing double standards when it comes to exegesis of the holy scriptures.


I find in scripture that most wolves see themselves as sheep, and not as wolves or wolves in sheep's clothing.
In fact, most don't even know they are wolves or wolves in sheep's clothing, BECAUSE they see themselves as sheep.
But this is where God said, you shall know them by there fruit.
To me, if you are UNKNOWINGLY changing the word of God, making it say what it is not, or basically into a lie, thereby rendering it useless, you are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If you are changing it KNOWINGLY and PURPOSEFULLY to be deceitful and to deceive others, then I see you as a wolf.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
113
#63
Some of it might have been, but that fig tree was real enough and Jesus said, 'you shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree'. Most haven't even done that, myself included. I have cursed lumps and growths in the name of Jesus and they went away, but not a plant to kill it.
The tree could not have been an idiom or metaphor.
I think I've lost track here. Since you started this thread, perhaps you can answer... how did we go from wolves in sheep's clothing to 'name it and claim it', except perhaps that it is an example of the teaching many wolves in sheep's clothing practice?
 

damombomb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2011
3,801
68
48
#64
What would be the solution? Can you help one or correct one?
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#65
I think I've lost track here. Since you started this thread, perhaps you can answer... how did we go from wolves in sheep's clothing to 'name it and claim it', except perhaps that it is an example of the teaching many wolves in sheep's clothing practice?
It's more like command it in Jesus' name and it's done.
I was simply responding to your post sir.
The wolf in sheep's clothing is in the post right above yours sir, or post 62.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#66
What would be the solution? Can you help one or correct one?
Would you mind being more specific please. I don't know who you are addressing or exactly what you are talking about ma'am.
 

sacraig67

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2014
455
8
0
#67
I had a little time on my hands, so I wrote a little something up for your post.
How is it a double standard and deceitful?
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Everyone translates this literally. That Jesus meant exactly as it is written. Everlasting means forever. Shall not come into condemnation means no condemnationto them that believe on Jesus. No problem.
However, when it comes to anything above salvation, such as healings or miracles, everyong will automatically put the verse being interpreted in the allagory category.


For example:
Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree,...
I cut this truth short to raise a point.
Verily means truly, and truly means it can stand alone without adding to it to make it the whole council of God.
The promise of God says if you have faith and doubt not you shall do the same thing with a physical tree as Jesus did with the fig tree.
So if the fig tree represents Israel, then we shall do to Israel What Jesus did to the fig tree? I should think not.
The fact is, you haven't His word abiding in you. You are thinking like men, natural men, saying He couldn't mean a physical tree or especially a physical mountain. No that would be impossible.
That would also lay the responsibility on the so called believer. Which it is.


What about this one?
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
No problem, Jesus ment what He said. If you believe on Him you will have everlasting life, but He also said He is the bread of life.
So is the bread of life a type of something?


What about the below verse?
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Most would probably say, this is definitely a type or representation of some sort.
We cannot eat Jesus' flesh and drink His blood, can we? Surely He didn't mean we have to really eat His flesh and drink His blood, did He?
Why not? Are you thinking like men again?
Jesus is called the word of God, not because it is a type of something, but because He IS the word of the living God.
Is the flesh we are to eat and the blood we are to drink just types and kinds of things that make up Jesus in who He is? Or is the word of God really His flesh and the Holy Ghost really His blood, and that IS who He really is and how He is made? And that is what we are to both eat and drink, respectively.


What about this one?
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Here again it starts with a double verily, which cannot make it any more or be a more truthful statement or promise of God.
And Jesus makes a most profound promise to those who believe on Him. That being, that they SHALL do the very same things that He did and even GREATER works than He did, shall those who believe, do.
Please don't be so naive or gullible into thinking that getting people saved tops even some of the things Jesus did.
Greater really means greater, so stop trying to make excuses for your failure by changing what is written to make it fit your actual experiences, as though you are the most holy and righteous thing that walked the earth and that if it doesn't work that way in your life, then it couldn't possibly mean what it says, because it would have to be that way in your life if it was the truth.
Not only that, but He goes on to tell us that if we ask ANYTHING in His name, He will do it. Do you think anything means anything, or only those things that are of His will?
If you say, 'of His will', then you are applying double standard to the word of God. Again, either verily verily means exactly what is stated below it, or you are simply adding to the word what isn't there, thereby changing what it truly is saying. In effect, changing a truth to a lie.


What about this one below?
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
How many times does God have to say something to a person who doubts, before he really believes what He as God has actually said?
Can you paste this in the allegory category?
Could it be that God actually meant what He said, and that you don't have what you desire because you are missing what He said?


Here is yet another promise of God.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
When God says, 'everyone' does He really mean everyone?
When God says, 'shall be given you and receiveth' does He really mean everyone who asks, what they ask, shall be given to them and that they shall receive it, like it is written?
Or is this a type of something also?
Again, double standards and deceiptful to me.
God has said the same thing over and over again, many different ways, and you still don't believe what He said, and continue to make the word of God of none effect because you change the word of God or the truth of His word into a lie. Making it say something it does not say because you can't believe that He really meant what He said.
So how can you say that you are rightly dividing the word of God, when you are changing what He said into something He clearly did not say, making it a lie of the devil, rendering it powerless and making it useless to the believer.


I hear a lot about God will not answer prayer if it isn't in His will.
So what about this verse?
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Can anyone tell me whose will is involved in this promise?
Is this a truthful promise of God, or is it just another one of those half truths that you have to add to, to get the whole council of God?
Mark 11:24 says basically the same thing.
...What things soever ye desire,...
I don't see God's will written in that statement either.
Below is yet another.
Psa 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Psa 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
It is written again, that God WILL give us the desires of our hearts, not His.
When you stop trying to make the word of God say something it is not saying, then and only then can you even start to receive the actual truth of God's word.
It is written,
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
How many witnesses do you need before it is established within you, before you actually believe the word of God or what He said and stop changing it into a lie of the devil?
Again, I see what most of you are doing with the word of God as deceiptful, at the very least, but most certainly showing double standards when it comes to exegesis of the holy scriptures.


I find in scripture that most wolves see themselves as sheep, and not as wolves or wolves in sheep's clothing.
In fact, most don't even know they are wolves or wolves in sheep's clothing, BECAUSE they see themselves as sheep.
But this is where God said, you shall know them by there fruit.
To me, if you are UNKNOWINGLY changing the word of God, making it say what it is not, or basically into a lie, thereby rendering it useless, you are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If you are changing it KNOWINGLY and PURPOSEFULLY to be deceitful and to deceive others, then I see you as a wolf.
From "what constitutes a wolf in sheep's clothing" to "name it claim it" and calling me a wolf. That's pretty good.
 
J

JesusIsAll

Guest
#68
Ever watch cooking shows on PBS? Burt Wolf in his wool overcoat?

Sorry. Maybe the devil made me do it... can't argue against my usefulness as a walking, breathing emetic...
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
63
#69
From "what constitutes a wolf in sheep's clothing" to "name it claim it" and calling me a wolf. That's pretty good.
Are you a wolf?
I said those who knowingly and purposefully alter the word of God or the truth to deceive. Is that what you are doing or did you just not understand what I wrote?
I thought I made it simple enough for everyone to understand. Maybe you should read it again.
Though I tend to be a bit long winded at times, I was responding to a post asking why I thought people were using double standards and being deceitful.
I was us the promises of God to show that when it come to the promises of God, outside that of salvation, there is a double standard used, in that it is referred to as a metaphor, idiom, kind, type, simile, allegory, parable, and the like, but never what it actually says.
I thought it was pretty easy to follow.
Seriously people. You really need to use scripture to make your point, instead of these worthless belittling comments.
I have yet to find anyone to disprove what I wrote.
All I heard was name it claim it talk, but did I pervert anything?
Can anyone prove contrary?
Can anyone show me where I misinterpreted or twisted scripture?
 
K

kennethcadwell

Guest
#70
I had a little time on my hands, so I wrote a little something up for your post.
How is it a double standard and deceitful?
Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Everyone translates this literally. That Jesus meant exactly as it is written. Everlasting means forever. Shall not come into condemnation means no condemnationto them that believe on Jesus. No problem.
However, when it comes to anything above salvation, such as healings or miracles, everyong will automatically put the verse being interpreted in the allagory category.


For example:
Mat 21:21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree,...
I cut this truth short to raise a point.
Verily means truly, and truly means it can stand alone without adding to it to make it the whole council of God.
The promise of God says if you have faith and doubt not you shall do the same thing with a physical tree as Jesus did with the fig tree.
So if the fig tree represents Israel, then we shall do to Israel What Jesus did to the fig tree? I should think not.
The fact is, you haven't His word abiding in you. You are thinking like men, natural men, saying He couldn't mean a physical tree or especially a physical mountain. No that would be impossible.
That would also lay the responsibility on the so called believer. Which it is.


What about this one?
Joh 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Joh 6:48 I am that bread of life.
No problem, Jesus ment what He said. If you believe on Him you will have everlasting life, but He also said He is the bread of life.
So is the bread of life a type of something?


What about the below verse?
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Most would probably say, this is definitely a type or representation of some sort.
We cannot eat Jesus' flesh and drink His blood, can we? Surely He didn't mean we have to really eat His flesh and drink His blood, did He?
Why not? Are you thinking like men again?
Jesus is called the word of God, not because it is a type of something, but because He IS the word of the living God.
Is the flesh we are to eat and the blood we are to drink just types and kinds of things that make up Jesus in who He is? Or is the word of God really His flesh and the Holy Ghost really His blood, and that IS who He really is and how He is made? And that is what we are to both eat and drink, respectively.


What about this one?
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Joh 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
Joh 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
Here again it starts with a double verily, which cannot make it any more or be a more truthful statement or promise of God.
And Jesus makes a most profound promise to those who believe on Him. That being, that they SHALL do the very same things that He did and even GREATER works than He did, shall those who believe, do.
Please don't be so naive or gullible into thinking that getting people saved tops even some of the things Jesus did.
Greater really means greater, so stop trying to make excuses for your failure by changing what is written to make it fit your actual experiences, as though you are the most holy and righteous thing that walked the earth and that if it doesn't work that way in your life, then it couldn't possibly mean what it says, because it would have to be that way in your life if it was the truth.
Not only that, but He goes on to tell us that if we ask ANYTHING in His name, He will do it. Do you think anything means anything, or only those things that are of His will?
If you say, 'of His will', then you are applying double standard to the word of God. Again, either verily verily means exactly what is stated below it, or you are simply adding to the word what isn't there, thereby changing what it truly is saying. In effect, changing a truth to a lie.


What about this one below?
Joh 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
Joh 16:24 Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.
How many times does God have to say something to a person who doubts, before he really believes what He as God has actually said?
Can you paste this in the allegory category?
Could it be that God actually meant what He said, and that you don't have what you desire because you are missing what He said?


Here is yet another promise of God.
Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:
Mat 7:8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
Mat 7:9 Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?
Mat 7:10 Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?
Mat 7:11 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him?
When God says, 'everyone' does He really mean everyone?
When God says, 'shall be given you and receiveth' does He really mean everyone who asks, what they ask, shall be given to them and that they shall receive it, like it is written?
Or is this a type of something also?
Again, double standards and deceiptful to me.
God has said the same thing over and over again, many different ways, and you still don't believe what He said, and continue to make the word of God of none effect because you change the word of God or the truth of His word into a lie. Making it say something it does not say because you can't believe that He really meant what He said.
So how can you say that you are rightly dividing the word of God, when you are changing what He said into something He clearly did not say, making it a lie of the devil, rendering it powerless and making it useless to the believer.


I hear a lot about God will not answer prayer if it isn't in His will.
So what about this verse?
Joh 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Can anyone tell me whose will is involved in this promise?
Is this a truthful promise of God, or is it just another one of those half truths that you have to add to, to get the whole council of God?
Mark 11:24 says basically the same thing.
...What things soever ye desire,...
I don't see God's will written in that statement either.
Below is yet another.
Psa 37:3 Trust in the LORD, and do good; so shalt thou dwell in the land, and verily thou shalt be fed.
Psa 37:4 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desires of thine heart.
Psa 37:5 Commit thy way unto the LORD; trust also in him; and he shall bring it to pass.
It is written again, that God WILL give us the desires of our hearts, not His.
When you stop trying to make the word of God say something it is not saying, then and only then can you even start to receive the actual truth of God's word.
It is written,
Mat 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
How many witnesses do you need before it is established within you, before you actually believe the word of God or what He said and stop changing it into a lie of the devil?
Again, I see what most of you are doing with the word of God as deceiptful, at the very least, but most certainly showing double standards when it comes to exegesis of the holy scriptures.


I find in scripture that most wolves see themselves as sheep, and not as wolves or wolves in sheep's clothing.
In fact, most don't even know they are wolves or wolves in sheep's clothing, BECAUSE they see themselves as sheep.
But this is where God said, you shall know them by there fruit.
To me, if you are UNKNOWINGLY changing the word of God, making it say what it is not, or basically into a lie, thereby rendering it useless, you are a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If you are changing it KNOWINGLY and PURPOSEFULLY to be deceitful and to deceive others, then I see you as a wolf.
These are all great verses, but what gets me is ones who believe osas or turn salvation into a mere belief system use the same scriptures you use. They however do not include the ones where Jesus says to repent to be save ( Luke ), baptized to be saved ( Matthew and Mark ), and that as a true follower of His how you should walk listed in all the gospels, and what follows a true believer.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#71
It's more like command it in Jesus' name and it's done.
I was simply responding to your post sir.
The wolf in sheep's clothing is in the post right above yours sir, or post 62.
Actually the 'wolf in sheep's clothing' is the subject and title of the OP, I was wondering how we got going on 'name it and claim it'.
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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#72
These are all great verses, but what gets me is ones who believe osas or turn salvation into a mere belief system use the same scriptures you use. They however do not include the ones where Jesus says to repent to be save ( Luke ), baptized to be saved ( Matthew and Mark ), and that as a true follower of His how you should walk listed in all the gospels, and what follows a true believer.
What I was showing in the verses I used was that the promises of Jesus were in and of themselves, complete and true. That it does not need another verse in scripture to make it the whole truth or council of God. If it did need need help to make it the truth, then what Jesus said was a half truth, which constitutes His promises as a lie. Which cannot be the case.
Jesus said, this is a true statement, I am not lying, I tell you the truth.
If that be the case, which it is, then the promises are good AS IS.
Again, can anyone show me where I have perverted scripture?
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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#74
Actually the 'wolf in sheep's clothing' is the subject and title of the OP, I was wondering how we got going on 'name it and claim it'.
I don't know sir. I think you were the first one to bring it up.
Now if you would read what I wrote you might understand what I was saying, which had to do with double standards and being deceitful, which had to do with a wolf or a wolf in sheep's clothing which was one who perverted scripture, which defined what a wolf was or the kind of person that would be a wolf or wolf in sheep's clothing.
Again, this is simple stuff and it's not hard to follow, if you read what I wrote.
I wasn't writing about name it claim it, even though it is scripturally sound. I used those promises to show the double standards used by most, when dealing with anything outside the salvation promises, which, by the way, no one has as yet even tried to show that I misinterpreted, twisted, or used double standards on the scripture verses in which I used.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#75
the catholic pope is a PERFECT EXAMPLE
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
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#76
Jan 6, 2012
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#78
What kind of person would you consider a wolf in sheep's clothing?
If any of you say the op, just to get some kudos from others, it might help to state why you think I might be considered a candidate.
Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


Most of you don't believe in prophets for today so lets remove the words false prophets. Now what kind of person would you put in the false prophet's place? What characteristic traits, knowledge, gift, ...etc,.
Good topic. What constitutes a false teacher-minister needs to be clearly understood rather than vague. I haven't read other replies on here (I will in a second), but since there are so many different levels of falsehood, I have to cut to the chase. Jesus' few words in that passage actually contain the complete definition of a wolf in sheep's clothing:

"Beware of false [ministers-teachers] who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves." The focus is that "inwardly" they are predators or are preying on people. Jesus isn't talking about teachers who preach false or errant doctrines; He is talking here firstly about teachers who know consciously that their motivation is to prey on innocent or unsuspecting people. These people will then use trickery (sheep's clothing), charm, and any number of things to deceive people, because their intention is to consciously and purposely use and gain from the sheep. This is why Jesus said they "come to you in sheep's clothing" (i.e. they know they are out to use and gain from people and so purposely put on an appearance to the contrary-- sheep's clothing), because under their Christian or kind veneer, they are predators or people consciously seeking to use or take advantage of the sheep.

That particular passage is talking about 'genuine wolves', not mistaken ministers or people who prophesy incorrectly. It is talking about people who consciously know they are among the sheep to take advantage of and hurt them. This particular brand of ministers is the type that 2Pet. 2 and Jude talk about.
 
Jan 6, 2012
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#79
Okay, I tried to read through all the comments but just couldn't. I just want to reiterate before I get to bed, since I am seeing it more clearly while reading through this thread, that the 'wolf in sheep's clothing' Jesus mentioned in the OP passage is the person who is in reality a predator or person who purposely plans to take from and use the sheep to his advantage.

Also, Jesus chose words purposely. He used the words "sheep's clothing... ravenous wolves". Their cover (clothing) to get around Christians is a veneer of spirituality (sheep's clothing) which allows Christians to receive and trust them. They need this 'clothing' because their motive and intention is to trick and therefore gain from the sheep. They have no other motive and no kind of goodwill toward the sheep or the people they oversee or pastor; this is why Jesus calls them "ravenous (voracious, hungry/desirous to kill and eat) wolves". While it may be hard to believe there are people like this out there, Jesus says they are out there, and some other NT writers mention the inescapable judgment reserved for such ministers.

Finally, Jesus said, "By their fruits you will know them." Since He is talking solely about the inner heart of a wolf, He cannot mean 'outward works or success' when He says one will know/recognize a wolf by his fruits. In light of the fact that Jesus is, in Matt. 7:15-16, talking about the 2Pet. 2 and Jude level of false ministry (ministers whose condemnation cannot be reversed precisely because their every motivation is to use and profit from the sheep), it might behoove some people to then ask what fruit He meant when He says, "By their fruits you will know them"?
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#80
Do you think he is purposely deceiving people?
yes they are ? They control the jesuit order the jesuit order has been centralize to restore the catholic control or is it a deeper plan ? The jesuits have been the masons in control they have succesfully infiltrated every protestant and set up purposely universities to deceive and break the faith of many scholars by the theologies that have been concocted to destroy sound doctrinal teaching to purposely destroy the genuine belief the schollars had had by the means of a false theological teachings crafted by dumbfounded men of seer thought because they belong to the great wretched dragon goverment , wich their free mason insignia is the star of chiun , hence the star of remphan the star of molech the star of saturn wich pronounced shaw tahn in greek soundi.g like satan also being the the known star of david wich is not the star of david but a hexagram used in dark arts and implanted in all major religions even Hinduism and budism even the christians are deceived in tge usage of it and it happens to have the numerical value of -666 - , wich can also be seen worn on the hat of the pope and disquised as the sun symbol of the scepter of the pope being the egyptian equivalent of it the star of satan is in all the usa money especially the one dollar bill every bank is controlled by these individuals to purpose a higher scheme , is there true freedom or an illusion of it ? Or is this the nwo at work ? Fruit for thought . I am a jew an abrahamic jew not a proselite of the judaian blood not an anti semite a true jew proven through geneology and family history and bloodwork , the antichrist goverment has been at work since the day of old now will you hold fast in the faith ? This is the call for endurance on behalf of the saints , you can chose to disaknowledge this info if you wich , but i say do not let anyone deceive you by any means for the son of perdution will come with all deceivables but those will believe him because the love and tuth in them was diminished therefore God had confounded them with the sporit of delusion that they perceive a truth for a lie because they had not loved the truth .