What is a pastor?

[Depleted]

Probably should have asked this before asking about salary.

But, I've been thinking we all have the same eye for what he is, and I should know better coming from a denomination that doesn't even use the term beyond using it as a title. (Like Mr. or Mrs., Pastor is just a word of respect before someone's name. That kind of title.) We really don't all agree on what a pastor is supposed to do with that job, so thought I'd start there.

What is the pastor supposed to do? Teach? Only teach? Visit the sick? Minister to the flock? And, with minister to the flock, what does that entail? Only minister? Evangelize too?

It can be a lot of work for one fellow to handle. He'd need 72 hours a day to get it all done, and sleep would be something he should do only on holiday. AND, if he does his job right, there should be no holidays. lol

So, seriously, what is expected, in your mind for the word "pastor?" Can we come up with some generalized idea? I do get pastoring a church with 50 people is much different than pastoring a church with 1500. And pastoring in the country is much different than being an urban pastor, but what is the commonalities that form the word "pastor?"

 

[trofimus]

For me, pastor is one of possibly many elders. The one being the "main" of them.
- this would make him presbyteros in the NT terms

Or the guardian of the teaching in the church.
- this would make him episcopos (bishop) in the NT terms.

---

Its quite hard to find the NT term for some American pastors who seem to be like "leaders of everything" in the church, the main face of the church, the main or the only teacher, the guardian, president, prophet, healer, inventor of doctrines etc etc.

 

[plainguy]

I know this answer. A pastor is the opposite of a futureor. Gimme a harder one

 

[Joidevivre]

To me a pastor is one who "shepherds" the people in the sense of bringing them sound teaching, and working to build up the body of Christians which are in his congregation. A pastor must know the scriptures and continue in the Word daily to gain even more insight. A man of The Word.

What bothers me has been mentioned earlier - he should not be the one who runs around visiting the sick, leading every meeting during the week and be the one who counsels everyone. This should be done by the people in his church with their various gifts which have been strengthened and affirmed by the pastor. He should take notice of those who seem to have a word of wisdom or counsel for others, those who are comforting to the hurting or sick, and those who seem to not only know the word, but are able to expound and bring understanding to others. These people he encourages and creates opportunities for them to build up their functions in the body.

This does not happen enough. I see pastors doing everything in so many churches. Why? Is it control? Is it a lack of not valuing the gifts that others have? Is it just easier? Or is it just not understanding the role he could play in encouraging and developing the strengths in others?

 

[notuptome]

1Tim chapter 3. The KJV calls them bishops we now call them pastors. They are the overseers of the NT church assemblies.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Dino246]

Joiedevivre... I tried to rep you, albeit unsuccessfully. Great post!

The word "pastor" (Greek root "poimen", shepherd) is used surprisingly few times in Scripture in the sense of a leadership role. Paul ties it together with "teacher" in Ephesians 4; Luke uses it as "shepherd" in Acts 20:28, and Peter uses it as "shepherd" in 1 Peter 5:2. Whether Paul intended to conflate the two roles is, at first glance, unclear. I would suggest that in reality, some people are gifted in both areas, some in only one, and many in neither.

So what does a shepherd do? He (or she!) knows the sheep individually, leads them to good pasture and clean water, protects them from wolves and other carnivores, guides them to safe haven in times of trial, and generally cares for them, seeing that their needs are met. He will seek one sheep that has strayed, but will also break its leg so it learns not to stray. In return the sheep know, trust, and follow him.

Likewise, a pastor should know the people personally, having a general awareness of what is happening in their lives. The pastor ensures that their basic needs are being met, and that they are being fed good "food" and are protected from error and falsehood. This does not require that the pastor does all the teaching, but that all the teaching is sound.

In over 25 years in various congregations, I have only met one person who, titled and paid as a pastor, fulfilled this role well. The others were teachers, evangelists, or elders with other giftings (I consider "preaching" a gifting, not a role). I've met others who were/are pastors in the sense of their calling and responsibility, but not in their title or position.

Our church recently recognized one of our administrative personnel; she now heads up our prayer and care coordination. It's her role to encourage and model prayer and visitation ministries, because she is gifted to do these things well, from the heart. I would call her a pastor in the biblical sense.

In general terms, I think the role of pastor is confused and conflated with all eldership, leadership, administration and church-maintenance responsibilities. To echo what I said in the salary thread, if a church needs a "pastor", they should be very specific in documenting the requirements that person must fulfill. Too often, congregants assume what the role is or should be, asking far too much of one person, and condemning that person when (not if!) they don't do what is expected but unwritten.

One side note; I don't use the term "pastor" as a title except to distinguish that person from others with the same name. I never address Bob the pastor as "Pastor Bob". To me that would be a violation of Matthew 23:8.

 

[star]

IMO a pastor is a Shepherd, leader, teacher, of the flock he has under his care. If a pastor of a large church, he made need assistants, who are also under his care. Preaching is only part of a pastor's job description. A flock needs help in time of need, leadership to grow in grace, guidance for godly matters.

I believe if one takes on the role of pastor, they will be held accountable for all of the above and for their flock, as they should be.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It can be a lot of work for one fellow to handle. He'd need 72 hours a day to get it all done, and sleep would be something he should do only on holiday. AND, if he does his job right, there should be no holidays. lol

We have two options here -- either go by man-made ideas of "a pastor" or go by what the Scripture teaches.

1. In the New Testament the shepherds of the churches were called elders, and the spiritual gifts were those of evangelists, pastors, teachers, governments, and helps.

2. There was always a plurality of elders in each church, and the presbytery was within the local church, not outside as a denominational body.

3. Among the elders there would be a variety of spiritual gifts, but the responsibility for the church would be a shared responsibility. Therefore everything could not possibly fall on one man's shoulders.

4. The elders were all from within the local church, and not "imported" from seminaries or disqualified because they had not gone through some formal academic program. Paul told Timothy to teach faithful men so that they in turn would teach other faithful men within the assembly.

5. Some of the elders would probably be compensated for their services, while others would not. But they were not employees of the church but servants of the Lord.

6. In order to understand their responsibilities we have the following Scriptures: And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church...Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. (Acts 20:17,28).

So the elders were to take oversight of the flock (which meant watching over each of the sheep) and also to feed the flock, which meant providing both milk and meat from the Word of God. Peter adds further instructions: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. (1 Peter 5:2,3).

So this was not be be a career position for mounds of cash, and the elders were not to lord it over the flock, but be servants of the church. and watch over each individual sheep's spiritual welfare.

 

[Depleted]

Joiedevivre... I tried to rep you, albeit unsuccessfully. Great post!

The word "pastor" (Greek root "poimen", shepherd) is used surprisingly few times in Scripture in the sense of a leadership role. Paul ties it together with "teacher" in Ephesians 4; Luke uses it as "shepherd" in Acts 20:28, and Peter uses it as "shepherd" in 1 Peter 5:2. Whether Paul intended to conflate the two roles is, at first glance, unclear. I would suggest that in reality, some people are gifted in both areas, some in only one, and many in neither.

So what does a shepherd do? He (or she!) knows the sheep individually, leads them to good pasture and clean water, protects them from wolves and other carnivores, guides them to safe haven in times of trial, and generally cares for them, seeing that their needs are met. He will seek one sheep that has strayed, but will also break its leg so it learns not to stray. In return the sheep know, trust, and follow him.

Likewise, a pastor should know the people personally, having a general awareness of what is happening in their lives. The pastor ensures that their basic needs are being met, and that they are being fed good "food" and are protected from error and falsehood. This does not require that the pastor does all the teaching, but that all the teaching is sound.

In over 25 years in various congregations, I have only met one person who, titled and paid as a pastor, fulfilled this role well. The others were teachers, evangelists, or elders with other giftings (I consider "preaching" a gifting, not a role). I've met others who were/are pastors in the sense of their calling and responsibility, but not in their title or position.

Our church recently recognized one of our administrative personnel; she now heads up our prayer and care coordination. It's her role to encourage and model prayer and visitation ministries, because she is gifted to do these things well, from the heart. I would call her a pastor in the biblical sense.

In general terms, I think the role of pastor is confused and conflated with all eldership, leadership, administration and church-maintenance responsibilities. To echo what I said in the salary thread, if a church needs a "pastor", they should be very specific in documenting the requirements that person must fulfill. Too often, congregants assume what the role is or should be, asking far too much of one person, and condemning that person when (not if!) they don't do what is expected but unwritten.

One side note; I don't use the term "pastor" as a title except to distinguish that person from others with the same name. I never address Bob the pastor as "Pastor Bob". To me that would be a violation of Matthew 23:8.

1. I repped Joi before I read your post. Sorry. Not quite up with giving a rep for you, but at least you know she got one.

2. You had me all the way until the last sentence. I don't get the reference to last sentnece though. Pastor may be a teacher or may not be a teacher, (depending on how your church and understanding goes), so why not call a pastor a pastor? To me, it's a title, like Doctor or Misses. I feel kind of funny calling the person a reverend, because what if he is cracking jokes at the moment? Not very reverend. (Writer. Literalist. I really get stuck on words. lol) But pastor seems to acknowledge the role the person has and the calling. I've also called guys I know missionaries and evangelists because that's what they did.


I've mentioned this too, but my denom doesn't have pastors. We call ours "Elders." And we have two kinds -- Teaching Elders and Ruling Elders. Wild guess what the teaching elder does. At least we aren't calling him Teacher. lol

Ruling Elders are the ones who organize shepharding in the NT version of that word. They do whatever ministry fits them. (The one I knew did mercy ministry, since we are/were both into the mercy ministry. Others are into organizing the student/teacher ministries. Others the homeless, etc.) But they're more the go-to guys when members want to minister in some way. Either they'll point the member to the right group already doing that, or they work toward finding others interested in what the member wants to do so it's not just one person going it alone. And, when something goes wrong, or right, keep the Elder in the loop, so he knows if resources can be added to the effort.

It is expected that if you're a Christian, you're supposed to be ministering in some way.

And if you minister a lot, then the word "deacon" comes along. Deacons are the Stephens in our denom.

(Presbyterian, so we're all about "orderly" when we do stuff. lol)

 

[Depleted]

IMO a pastor is a Shepherd, leader, teacher, of the flock he has under his care. If a pastor of a large church, he made need assistants, who are also under his care. Preaching is only part of a pastor's job description. A flock needs help in time of need, leadership to grow in grace, guidance for godly matters.

I believe if one takes on the role of pastor, they will be held accountable for all of the above and for their flock, as they should be.

But what kind of help? Like if I'm moving and could use help, should I be calling the pastor for an extra pair of hands, and a strong back? Is it individual help or group help? And if either or both, what kind of help?

 

[Dino246]

...
2. You had me all the way until the last sentence. I don't get the reference to last sentence though.

What I meant is that I don't address the pastor (lower-case 'p') as Pastor (upper-case 'P') as though it were a title of rank or authority like Doctor or Captain. Similarly, I don't address any of the teachers in our congregation as Teacher So-and-So, and I don't get addressed as Musician Dino. It's not that I don't respect the role, but I don't think the role warrants an elevated title. I don't agree with the clergy/laity split. Rather, I believe in a plurality of elders, one of whom is in the role of senior pastor. I hope that makes sense. If the person in that role demanded to be addressed as Pastor, I would conclude that he definitely didn't warrant it.

 

[NayborBear]

That's a word used in "parting." "If I don't see ya in the near future?" "I'll catch ya in the far pastor!"
No?

 

[Beez]

If I called my place of worship and asked to speak to the pastor, after they got through laughing at me (because I should know better), they would inform me that I could reach Him -- the Senior Pastor -- through prayer. The five (or is it six?) who otherwise lead don't have special titles we are to call them by, except for the two who serve as "Computer Geeks" "

 

[Hizikyah]

A pastor is a leader of a religious group.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."

G4166 ποιμήν poimen (poi-meen') n.
a shepherd.
{literally or figuratively}
[of uncertain affinity]
KJV: shepherd, pastor
[/FONT]

 

[MarcR]

Probably should have asked this before asking about salary.

But, I've been thinking we all have the same eye for what he is, and I should know better coming from a denomination that doesn't even use the term beyond using it as a title. (Like Mr. or Mrs., Pastor is just a word of respect before someone's name. That kind of title.) We really don't all agree on what a pastor is supposed to do with that job, so thought I'd start there.

What is the pastor supposed to do? Teach? Only teach? Visit the sick? Minister to the flock? And, with minister to the flock, what does that entail? Only minister? Evangelize too?

It can be a lot of work for one fellow to handle. He'd need 72 hours a day to get it all done, and sleep would be something he should do only on holiday. AND, if he does his job right, there should be no holidays. lol

So, seriously, what is expected, in your mind for the word "pastor?" Can we come up with some generalized idea? I do get pastoring a church with 50 people is much different than pastoring a church with 1500. And pastoring in the country is much different than being an urban pastor, but what is the commonalities that form the word "pastor?"

Eph 4:11-12
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
KJV


For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry

If there is any commonality of expectation it is the expectation that the pastor preach on Sunday; but Eph 4:12 suggests that other things may be more important to God, if not to an individual congregation.

Eph 4:11-12 seems to be saying that the primary responsibility for the work of the ministry of the church belongs to the members (saints). Ti is the role of the Pastor and the gifted men of the church to prepare and equip (perfect) the congregation at large for the work of evangelism and spiritual ministry to both believers and unsaved members of the community.

 

[Johnny_B]

I agree with N6 a pastor is part of the eldership that leads the Church and as Epesians 4:11-16

“And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds/pastors and teachers,to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.Rather, speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in every way into him who is the head, into Christ,from whom the whole body, joined and held together by every joint with which it is equipped, when each part is working properly, makes the body grow so that it builds itself up in love.”

A pastor/teacher is one of the gift that the Lord gave to the body for the building up and equipping of the saints to help bring the bobdy to maturity in the Son, that we are not blown about by every wind and wave of doctrine. He is also one of the elders that shepherd the flock of God, the pastor/teacher has more of a teaching role that the others, in the fellowship that I attend has five elders that all teach with one teaching more then the others because he has a gift to teach, not that the others don't, but he is more of the lead pastor, but is not the final word as do senior pastors do in other fellowships that govern the body with the pastor being the lead position of the Chruch in their view.

Elders are under shepherds I Peter 5:1-5


“So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed:shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly;not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock.And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of gloryLikewise, you who are younger, be subject to the elders. Clothe yourselves, all of you, with humility toward one another, for “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.”

There is not a one man leader like the Gentiles as Jesus stated to His disciples in Matthew 20:25-28


“But Jesus called them to him and said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their great ones exercise authority over them.It shall not be so among you. But whoever would be great among you must be your servant,and whoever would be first among you must be your slave,even as the Son of Man came not to be served but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

This is one of the problems with todays Church, they govern it as the Gentiles govern. I remember watching a video and this pastor was stepping down because he said it was to much for him, that he could not be an alpha leader and that is what Jesus set up. But today we have nothing, but alpha pastors the buck stops here yes they have boards because of the tax laws, but if you go against the flow they are looked down on and get pushed out or resign do to pressure put on them, I've seen it to many times.

This newe trend that I see is not Biblical at all, this idea that the one pastor is the leader of the Church and starts new satellite Churches that are set up with video and the one pastor does all the teaching from one of the satellites and if someone else does teach they bring in someone and once in a while an assistant will teach. It's this idea of the mega-church model which is non-biblical each fellowship in the Bible had elders leading the Church with the apostles coming by to teach at times or visit.

The reason people do not like this is because like the doctrine of salvation, they like the teachings of the RCC. The reformation was to reawaken the Church to the Scriptures, but people now a days lean towards philosophies of doctrine rather then Scriptural doctrine. The idea of one lead pastor is like each Church having it's own mini pope.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The reason people do not like this is because like the doctrine of salvation, they like the teachings of the RCC. The reformation was to reawaken the Church to the Scriptures, but people now a days lean towards philosophies of doctrine rather then Scriptural doctrine. The idea of one lead pastor is like each Church having it's own mini pope.

That's right. It is the RCC which promoted "Scholasticism" in the Middle Ages, following which they had "Doctors" of Divinity, and then began to use the titles of "Father", "Reverend", "Right Reverend" etc. for their clergy.

The priests were treated as surrogate Christs with the power to hear the confession of sins and absolve those sins. After the Reformation, the Reformers did NOT revert back to the New Testament pattern, but continued to promote the same ideas, and even had their clergy wearing clerical robes and clerical collars, and calling the ordinances of the Church "sacraments".

After that the evangelical churches did not repudiate these ideas but firmly held on to the notion that their pastors (one man) were to be seminary trained and at the minimum have a Bachelor of Divinity degree. Today most evangelical churches refuse to talk to anyone without a Master of Divinity degree. So Scholasticism has now permeated both evangelical and fundamentalist churches, where the preachers proudly display the title of "Doctor" (whether honorary or not does not matter). This maintains the divide between clergy and laity.

But the Lord already anticipated this and sternly told the apostles what you have quoted from Matthew 20:25-28 as well as what is in Matthew 23:8-12:

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

 

[posthuman]

After that the evangelical churches did not repudiate these ideas but firmly held on to the notion that their pastors (one man) were to be seminary trained and at the minimum have a Bachelor of Divinity degree. Today most evangelical churches refuse to talk to anyone without a Master of Divinity degree. So Scholasticism has now permeated both evangelical and fundamentalist churches, where the preachers proudly display the title of "Doctor" (whether honorary or not does not matter). This maintains the divide between clergy and laity.

we shouldn't let opposition to education and training as a requirement minimize the value of education and training. it's certainly Biblical to acknowledge supernatural gifts of knowledge and understanding, but it's equally Biblical to study and to be trained up and to seek out and take hold of wisdom and understanding, and for those qualities and attributes to be desired in any kind of leadership position.



you know what's ironic, is how so many modern 'pastors' go through so much education, being introduced ((i assume?)) to deep and complex argumentation and theological basis for doctrine -- but then so many of those same men, week after week, stand up and give soliloquies that are purposefully and often quite radically 'dumbed down'
what's the good of that kind of knowledge if you ain't gonna transmit it to your flock?? why should supposedly highly educated and trained pastors 'teach to the lowest common denominator' ?

perhaps the answer to that objection is part of the point you're making, Nehemiah, that there are many meetings every week all over the land where people who don't actually have any spiritual gift to teach and possibly don't really have any God-given understanding to teach, are standing behind teacher's pulpits, because instead of by the gift of the Spirit, teachers are being chosen by scholasticism, and that a scholasticism & church structure that doesn't quite discern between a 'teacher' and a 'pastor' but assumes that a man called 'pastor' will fill both these roles, and often many more.

 

[Beez]

we shouldn't . . . often many more.

I agree with much of what you wrote above, but I am not experienced with this kind of leadership. From what I've read, however, it appears that what you have written.

If the preachers/teachers "

'teach to the lowest common denominator,' I would understanding some of them doing this, in order to reach everyone, if classes are also offered, to teach those on a different level.

My experience of continuing in a place of worship that continuously taught above my level of understanding, however, was to listen hard, take notes, and study all week what had been taught. People can often take in more of this type of teaching than teachers assume.
​

 

[posthuman]

the nominal 'pastor' at the congregation we've been attending 'preaches' a majority of weeks ((though this church has a number of people who fairly regularly 'preach')), but tbh ((and talking to him he volunteers to concede the point)) he's not a teacher.

notwithstanding i do think of him as a 'pastor' -- who he is, to me, is the person you would go to when you had a need, any need, in the congregation. not necessarily because he could fill it, but because he probably knows best who to direct you to. he is the one who is always visiting the sick, the poor, and the lonesome. he 'keeps a finger on the pulse' of everyone in the congregation, as much as he can, and when he sees needs, physical and spiritual, he pulls strings and makes connections to try to see them filled. in that sense he's like an overseer, and an organizer - not because he is the 'spiritual head' of the local congregation - he's actually not ((of course, Christ is, but insomuch as the spiritual leadership of elders there)). but because he is the one who fills the 'management' role, and i really do think he is gifted in the spirit to do so.

does that make sense? do i have the right idea of what a 'pastor' is?
it's so conflated with 'teacher' in our culture.