What is the definition of "sin"?

[HitchensGuy]

I was raised in the northeast to a non-religious family amongst a generally non-religious community, though a considerably accepting one respectful of everyone's beliefs. It's not that my parents raised me atheist, I was just raised without any mention of god. Of course I was aware of the word god and the concept of "a god", but I was largely left to understand god through my own experience and reason. I'm curious to see how "sin" might be defined or described, where it comes from and who is qualified to judge sins/ appropriate repentance?

“An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.” Proverbs 18:15
"Prove all things: hold fast that which is good." I Thessalonians 5:21

 

[dcontroversal]

The base definition is to miss the mark (God's mark) and fall short of what he requires!

 

[p_rehbein]

Well, you could ask Hitchens........uh, er, no, wait.......he ain't around anymore................oops.........


Do you know there are rumors that he saw the error of his ways prior to his passing and repented? Probably just rumors.

 

[Magenta]

Welcome to Christin Chat!

If you look up the word sin in a dictionary, it will say something akin to: it is a transgression against a divine law or decree. Most sin is probably firstly considered to be against God, and secondly against others, or could be looked at conversely, since any sin against another person would also be a sin against God. The ten commandments are a good primer on what is considered sin, i.e., not stealing, lying (bearing false witness), coveting etc.

 

[KennethC]

Short definition: Anything that is against His teachings/way in the bible !!!


If you want to get into longer and more in depth understanding then it will lead into things such as if know the speed limit is 65 mph, and you purposely continue to drive that stretch of road doing 80 mph knowing you are speeding. Then that also is committing sin !!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Welcome to Christin Chat!

If you look up the word sin in a dictionary, it will say something akin to: it is a transgression against a divine law or decree. Most sin is probably firstly considered to be against God, and secondly against others, or could be looked at conversely, since any sin against another person would also be a sin against God. The ten commandments are a good primer on what is considered sin, i.e., not stealing. lying (bearing false witness), coveting etc.

Amen and I will add a thought for you to ponder.....

When David had sinned with the Daughter of Sheba and then had Uriah killed he stated....Against thee and thee only have I sinned (God) as it was God's law that he had transgressed.....just a point to onder...

 

[Magenta]

Amen and I will add a thought for you to ponder.....

When David had sinned with the Daughter of Sheba and then had Uriah killed he stated....Against thee and thee only have I sinned (God) as it was God's law that he had transgressed.....just a point to onder...

Thank you!

 

[HitchensGuy]

So it could be considered sin to drive 80 in a 65, I imagine this comes from the fact that you would know its against the law and therefore its wrong. This is the point I find very curious because sure the commandments give us the lying, cheating, stealing but that covers so little compared to the decisions and situations we're faced with every day! Could it be truely sin because you "know its wrong" because anyone could so easily disagree that something is wrong. Sticking to that example, say youre driving down the freeway at 3 am and you are the only one on the road, you're really tired so driving faster will get you home sooner which makes everyone safer since an extremely tired person behind the wheel could be dangerous. I realize any hypothetical situation could be made to fit any idea but my point is who's to say what's really wrong? I imagine god has no concern over man made governments or their arbitrary laws dictated by the times.

 

[dcontroversal]

So it could be considered sin to drive 80 in a 65, I imagine this comes from the fact that you would know its against the law and therefore its wrong. This is the point I find very curious because sure the commandments give us the lying, cheating, stealing but that covers so little compared to the decisions and situations we're faced with every day! Could it be truely sin because you "know its wrong" because anyone could so easily disagree that something is wrong. Sticking to that example, say youre driving down the freeway at 3 am and you are the only one on the road, you're really tired so driving faster will get you home sooner which makes everyone safer since an extremely tired person behind the wheel could be dangerous. I realize any hypothetical situation could be made to fit any idea but my point is who's to say what's really wrong? I imagine god has no concern over man made governments or their arbitrary laws dictated by the times.

Actually, Romans teaches that God ordains worldly governments and uses them to work his will........

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I was raised in the northeast to a non-religious family amongst a generally non-religious community, though a considerably accepting one respectful of everyone's beliefs. It's not that my parents raised me atheist, I was just raised without any mention of god. Of course I was aware of the word god and the concept of "a god", but I was largely left to understand god through my own experience and reason. I'm curious to see how "sin" might be defined or described, where it comes from and who is qualified to judge sins/ appropriate repentance?

“An intelligent heart acquires knowledge, and the ear of the wise seeks knowledge.” Proverbs 18:15
"Prove all things: hold fast that which is good." I Thessalonians 5:21

Trying to keep GOD's law by/with the flesh.GOD is a Spirit and must be worshiped in spirit and truth.
+++++++++
Romans 3:20
king James version(KJV)

20.)Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

 

[HitchensGuy]

I get the stealing, lying, killing but what about such commandments and decrees as keeping the sabbath? Should we really consider working on a sunday to be such a damnable offence which God tells us deserved the punishment of death? Should we take sin to be limited to these things? People understnad that eating meat with cheese, or shellfish, or wearing linens and these types of sins may have been relevant durring the time when the bible was written but doesn't really apply to our modern world. I understand the concept of hermeneutics, that values should be applied to the times but then how can we judge what should or shouldnt be a sin in our modern era?

 

[HitchensGuy]

Does that include sharia governments in the middle east or the dictatorial system in north korea where the kim jong family portrays themselves as gods to be worshiped by the people? Governments around the world can and often are pretty contradictory of eachother

 

[Angela53510]

So it could be considered sin to drive 80 in a 65, I imagine this comes from the fact that you would know its against the law and therefore its wrong. This is the point I find very curious because sure the commandments give us the lying, cheating, stealing but that covers so little compared to the decisions and situations we're faced with every day! Could it be truely sin because you "know its wrong" because anyone could so easily disagree that something is wrong. Sticking to that example, say youre driving down the freeway at 3 am and you are the only one on the road, you're really tired so driving faster will get you home sooner which makes everyone safer since an extremely tired person behind the wheel could be dangerous. I realize any hypothetical situation could be made to fit any idea but my point is who's to say what's really wrong? I imagine god has no concern over man made governments or their arbitrary laws dictated by the times.

Your example is called "situational ethics." That means that you think you have the right and authority to make up your own rules, to suit what you want, feel or need. But you need to try and convince the police, not me, when they pull you over for speeding, (even at 3 am) that you should be let off from the speeding ticket. Or you could take it to a higher court, and demand the judge let you make the decisions about which law to obey, and which law you can break at will.

God is like this, except unlike human law, police and judges, God is always right, true and pure. So when we break his laws (including breaking the laws of the land) we are offending a perfect and holy God. Sad to say, we ALWAYS break the law of God, sooner or later.

So there is a punishment we are all going to face.

But the good news (which is the meaning of the word - gospel!) is that Jesus has gone into the court of God, and has presented himself in our place. Because that is what his death on the cross is all about. Jesus died for our sins, in our place.

You too, can know the wonder of salvation, if you walk away from these silly hypothetical situations, and realize that God is the absolute authority, and that you are answerable to him, regardless of your upbringing, personal situation or beliefs.

I pray that you will come to understand that God is a living God, just and holy. But he is also loving, and will forgive our sins, when we turn and repent and follow Jesus Christ.

 

[p_rehbein]

I get the stealing, lying, killing but what about such commandments and decrees as keeping the sabbath? Should we really consider working on a sunday to be such a damnable offence which God tells us deserved the punishment of death? Should we take sin to be limited to these things? People understnad that eating meat with cheese, or shellfish, or wearing linens and these types of sins may have been relevant durring the time when the bible was written but doesn't really apply to our modern world. I understand the concept of hermeneutics, that values should be applied to the times but then how can we judge what should or shouldnt be a sin in our modern era?[/QUOTE]

Ok, so you are ONLY 22, did not grow up in a Christian family, had no exposure to Biblical Scripture.......and yet you are versed on such things as you mention above?

Seriously? Yeah, I'm not buying what you are selling.......have a nice day

 

[dcontroversal]

Does that include sharia governments in the middle east or the dictatorial system in north korea where the kim jong family portrays themselves as gods to be worshiped by the people? Governments around the world can and often are pretty contradictory of eachother

Did God use the Egyptians, Assyrians, Babylonians, Persians and Romans to work his will....?

Egypt-->Put Israel to slavery
Assyria-->Destroyed Northern Kingdom of Israel
Babylon--->Destroyed and carried away captive the Southern Kingdom of Judah
Persia-->Cyrus wrote the decree to allow the Jews to return to the land
Rome-->crucified Jesus

Not that God brings online wicked, violent kingdoms, but rather God uses them to further his will...both good and bad (kingdoms that is).........and does not God use the 10 HORNS to BURN the great whore in Revelation.....?

It is a deep thought for sure.....and requires a proper insight to understand and grasp, but at the end of the day..both good and bad kingdoms can be utilized by God to work his will........

 

[Angela53510]

PS In answer to your post about North Korea, there is an exception to obeying the laws of the land. That is when it directly contradicts God's laws. So reading a Bible in N. Korea is against the law, but God will honour those who chose to read the Bible, so they can better know how to follow him.

"27 And when they had brought them, they set them before the council. And the high priest questioned them, 28 saying, “We strictly charged you not to teach in this name, yet here you have filled Jerusalem with your teaching, and you intend to bring this man's blood upon us.” 29 But Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men." Acts 5:27-29

As far as Old Testament ceremonial law, as Christians we do not need to follow it. The laws we need to obey are the 10 commandments and follow the teachings of Jesus Christ as revealed in the New Testament. The ceremonial laws were about being clean, and set apart in that culture. Jesus came to set us free from the bondage of those laws, and he condemned the Pharisees who thought that obeying those ritual laws was pleasing to God.

 

[KennethC]

So it could be considered sin to drive 80 in a 65, I imagine this comes from the fact that you would know its against the law and therefore its wrong. This is the point I find very curious because sure the commandments give us the lying, cheating, stealing but that covers so little compared to the decisions and situations we're faced with every day! Could it be truely sin because you "know its wrong" because anyone could so easily disagree that something is wrong. Sticking to that example, say youre driving down the freeway at 3 am and you are the only one on the road, you're really tired so driving faster will get you home sooner which makes everyone safer since an extremely tired person behind the wheel could be dangerous. I realize any hypothetical situation could be made to fit any idea but my point is who's to say what's really wrong? I imagine god has no concern over man made governments or their arbitrary laws dictated by the times.

Actually, Romans teaches that God ordains worldly governments and uses them to work his will........

Well like Dcon said here in Romans it does show we are to obey the laws of the land given by man, and the bible also shows that if they do contradict God's ways then they are not to be followed.

Do you think a tired person is safer if they drive faster to get home???

You are thinking in terms of safer for others, but in safety for your own health and life no that would not be the case as driving faster could lead to a more serious situation then if doing the speed limit or lesser. God does set people in place good or bad to have His whole will play out on earth.

Unlike some teachings I have seen, God does not force us to love Him or come to Him.
We come to Him by the free will He gave us, and by that free will we learn to love Him the way we should because He loved us enough first to send His Son to die for us. Could you put your child to death knowing it would save others lives ???

 

[HitchensGuy]

Respectfully, I'm not selling anything. I realize having my username bear Hitchens's name could, in itself, be seen as sort of hostile or anti-christian, especially I suppose when I start threads like this but I assure you I am not against any religion or god. I'm asking questions for my own sake as well as for anyone who might read and consider my questions for themself. Certainly I am ignorant to the majority of scripture but I also am familiar with some. I ask how to determine sin because i legitimately don't fully know how I could. If I take the word litterally I'd be murdering most people i know so dont i then have to judge for myself how to live and which actions to take and not to take?

 

[Angela53510]

I get the stealing, lying, killing but what about such commandments and decrees as keeping the sabbath? Should we really consider working on a sunday to be such a damnable offence which God tells us deserved the punishment of death? Should we take sin to be limited to these things? People understnad that eating meat with cheese, or shellfish, or wearing linens and these types of sins may have been relevant durring the time when the bible was written but doesn't really apply to our modern world. I understand the concept of hermeneutics, that values should be applied to the times but then how can we judge what should or shouldnt be a sin in our modern era?[/QUOTE]

Ok, so you are ONLY 22, did not grow up in a Christian family, had no exposure to Biblical Scripture.......and yet you are versed on such things as you mention above?

Seriously? Yeah, I'm not buying what you are selling.......have a nice day

Good call! And, as you pointed out, he knows who Christopher Hitchens is. Anthony Flew, the noted atheist, who used to debate Christians came to believe in God before he died. I guess those debates really hit home! Sad they do not seem to have for Hitchens.

Here is a link to a youtube video debate with Hitchens and William Lane Craig, which even according to atheists, Craig won!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4KBx4vvlbZ8

But then, if you are just here to troll, and think you can put doubt in our minds, you have obviously won't bother to watch a video which would challenge your basic assumptions - that Christians are stupid and have blind faith, and that you can sow doubt and discord here.

In fact, I challenge you to watch the video, and come back and apologize for trolling here. You may not believe in Jesus, to your eternal detriment, but at least you can acknowledge that Christians do have strong reasons to believe what we do!

 

[HitchensGuy]

Thank you kennethc, dcon, and angela. I feel more or less satisfied with those responses. I've been told before that Jesus's revelation frees us from those things but apparently that information slipped my mind. This is why I'm here asking these questions, trying to get a better understanding