Yes, Jesus taught, proof of ones love for him was by listening to him--listening entails--learning and applying every single teaching. God even showed all how utterly important it is to accomplish that--At Jesus' baptism, God spoke from heaven( a rarity) and stated-- This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM.
What is the true Gospel Message?
- Thread starter iwant2serve
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Yes, Jesus taught, proof of ones love for him was by listening to him--listening entails--learning and applying every single teaching. God even showed all how utterly important it is to accomplish that--At Jesus' baptism, God spoke from heaven( a rarity) and stated-- This is my son the beloved in whom I am well pleased--LISTEN TO HIM.
There is no difference between the phrase Kingdom of God and Kingdom of heaven. This borne out by the fact that different Gospels use both expressions in exactly the same accounts depending on which one you read. The main
message in all the Gospels is that Jesus is the Messiah and that salvation is only possible through him.
message in all the Gospels is that Jesus is the Messiah and that salvation is only possible through him.
that is your opinion but the Understanig of the Godhead no man or women can fully know. Jesus is God because HE said so, HE recieved worship, and HE has all POWER 
sounds like God to me
sounds like God to me
The reality of the matter
At John 1:1--the only word for God-god= Theos in greek--in the oldest writings--Ho theos is in the 2 line at John 1:1= The God--but only Theos in the last line= god( small g) it was not calling the Logos( word) The God in the last line. Otherwise in simple English this is what is taught by Trinitarians--In the beginning the God was and the God was with God and the God was God---its impossible for the God to be with God--there is only one God. Proving a small g goes in the last line--which carries the biblical meaning- has godlike qualities--because this is how it works-Acts 2:22--Gods power goes through Jesus.
The greek word Proskenau, carries 5 different meanings from greek to English-1) worship to God--2) obeisance to a king, plus 3 others-- In trinity translations it has followers bowing in worship to a mortal Jesus( made lower than the angels while on earth-Heb 2:7-9)--Gods word is clear no worship to angels even, thus not to one lower either--bowing in obeisance to their king is the correct usage of Proskenau for Jesus, Gods appointed king( Daniel 7:13-15)--as well God is king of eternity, if Jesus were God he already would be king, but he had to be appointed by the (ancient of days( the only true God)--Then after his millennial reign, Jesus hands back the kingdom to his God and Father and subjects himself-forever( 1Cor 15:24-28)
I respect your thought but you are using John 1 out of context try with Gen 1:3, 6, 9 read the first three words of each verse it says AND GOD Said= that is the Logus = The Word John 1 the Word = Logus which means the Very Expression of God. Jesus is God who became flesh. Yes you can show in the Greek five different meaning however, You have to use the the one which is closet to the Authorial intent . and Context
Last edited:
I agree with Tanakh, but to clarify a little more.
Kingdom of Heaven = Kingdom of God
The kingdom of Heaven is found mostly in Matthew. The reason is because Matthew wrote for a Jewish audience, and Jews were not allowed to say the sacred name of God. Even Jews today say "G-d" which is sort of like cheating to not get caught! (Although there are a few verses in Matthew that use "Kingdom of God.")
Kingdom of God is found elsewhere in the gospels, and Acts, Romans 1 Corinthians, Galatians, Colossians and 2 Thessalonians.
I think as Americans, you do not have a full understanding of "kingdom" because you have never lived under a "king." Well, in the case of England, our venerable Queen, who was crowned just before I was born - a long time ago.
The Kingdom IS the King! For instance, when we sing "God save the Queen" the Queen does not stand, because it is about her. When she speaks publicly, she can use the royal "we." Even though she is talking about herself, singular first person. All the blessing and the problems of the Kingdom, in a real kingdom, (not a figurehead, like QEII) fall onto the Queen. True, she can delegate - but in the end, she is answerable to everything in her Kingdom. Or HIS Kingdom, in the case of Jesus.
So yes, we are to speak of the Kingdom. But that Kingdom has a King - Jesus! I remember when my second son was two, I asked him who Jesus was. He answered "He is the King." Out of the mouths of babes!
Kingdom of Heaven = Kingdom of God
The kingdom of Heaven is found mostly in Matthew. The reason is because Matthew wrote for a Jewish audience, and Jews were not allowed to say the sacred name of God. Even Jews today say "G-d" which is sort of like cheating to not get caught! (Although there are a few verses in Matthew that use "Kingdom of God.")
Kingdom of God is found elsewhere in the gospels, and Acts, Romans 1 Corinthians, Galatians, Colossians and 2 Thessalonians.
I think as Americans, you do not have a full understanding of "kingdom" because you have never lived under a "king." Well, in the case of England, our venerable Queen, who was crowned just before I was born - a long time ago.
The Kingdom IS the King! For instance, when we sing "God save the Queen" the Queen does not stand, because it is about her. When she speaks publicly, she can use the royal "we." Even though she is talking about herself, singular first person. All the blessing and the problems of the Kingdom, in a real kingdom, (not a figurehead, like QEII) fall onto the Queen. True, she can delegate - but in the end, she is answerable to everything in her Kingdom. Or HIS Kingdom, in the case of Jesus.
So yes, we are to speak of the Kingdom. But that Kingdom has a King - Jesus! I remember when my second son was two, I asked him who Jesus was. He answered "He is the King." Out of the mouths of babes!
Jesus is the Savior and He is called God.
Luke 1:47 (NASB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
1 Timothy 2:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Titus 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
2 Peter 1:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
Matthew 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
Luke 1:47 (NASB)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
1 Timothy 2:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
Titus 2:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
2 Peter 1:1 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ:
Matthew 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "BEHOLD, THE VIRGIN SHALL BE WITH CHILD AND SHALL BEAR A SON, AND THEY SHALL CALL HIS NAME IMMANUEL," which translated means, "GOD WITH US."
S
God created all things through Christ. Therefore Christ cannot be created. It's simple.
Besides the many Scriptures which identify Christ with YHVH, and explicit statements regarding Christ's deity.
If you have read the NT, there are many quotes in the NT from the OT that are talking about Christ. These verses use the word "Lord" in reference to him. Go back to the OT and read the source verses. You will see that MANY of them refer to LORD in capital letters, which is referring to YHVH, the personal name of the one true God of Deuteronomy 6:4.
There aren't just a few; there are MANY verses like this. For example, compare Romans 10:13 with Joel 2:32:
Romans 10:13 [SUP]13 [/SUP]For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
This is quoted from Joel 2:32:
Joel 2:32 [SUP]32 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls
Note the word LORD in capitals. This convention is used for referring to YHVH, the personal name of the one true God of Deuteronomy 6:4.
Deuteronomy 6:4 [SUP]4 [/SUP]“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.[SUP][a][/SUP]
No one disputes that YHVH is the personal name of the one true God, so this proves Christ is fully God (the mixed case form, Lord, is generally used for the Hebrew word Adonai, which is used to refer to God in a title sense, but is also used to refer to human beings, so it is less conclusive, however YHVH is indisputably the personal name of God).
By doing such comparisons, one can see that there are TONS of references to Christ's deity in the NT. This is besides the explicit statements.
I'm glad you posted. It gives me an opportunity to recommend this series of videos refuting anti-Trinitarians. It's excellent:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnzCuBYVJm7bPkqpjGW0RrtGX-M2aQSI
This playlist covers references to Christ's deity in the Old and New Testament, as well as refuting some of the "Council of Nicea" nonsense the anti-Trinitarians spout. In addition, it shows the problems with verses they attempt to use to refute the Trinity.
I'd also recommend a few books:
Forgotten Trinity, James White
Putting Jesus in His Place: The Case for the Deity of Christ, Rob Bowman
By the way, I used to be an anti-Trinitarian due to hanging out with the wrong crowd, although I never denied the deity of Christ. I found out that my "teachers" were blind, contentious fools.
Here's also some good remarks on John 1:1 from the ESV Study Bible:
From the Patristic period (Arius, c. AD 256—336) until the present day (Jehovah’s Witnesses), some have claimed that “the Word was God” merely identifies Jesus as a god rather than identifying Jesus as God, because the Greek word for God, Theos, is not preceded by a definite article. However, in Greek grammar, Colwell’s Rule indicates that the translation “a god” is not required, for lack of an article does not necessarily indicate indefiniteness (“a god”) but rather specifies that a given term (“God”) is the predicate nominative of a definite subject (“the Word”). This means that the context must determine the meaning of Theos here, and the context clearly indicates that this “God” that John is talking about (“the Word”) is the one true God who created all things (see also John 1:6, 12, 13, 18 for other examples of Theos without a definite article but clearly meaning “God”).
I was just reading John 1 and John 2 in depth this morning
The God of Christianity cared enough about us to come down and tabernacle amongst us and die a painful death on our behalf so we can be forgiven of our sins. The atonement is beautiful...it demonstrates that God does not compromise with sin, but that he also is merciful in that he provided for us to be forgiven. The cross is tangible evidence of God's love for us.
I think denying the Triune nature of God and the deity of Christ does severe violence to this most important manifestation of God's love for us. I think it reduces Christianity to the level of Islam...which has an indifferent, solitary non-involved god who forgives without demanding payment for sin. This sort of theology doesn't do justice to a just and loving God.
By the way, I really like the NET Bible because it places quotations from the OT in bold print so it is easy to identify them. MacArthur's Study Bible capitalizes them, I believe, so that's pretty handy. I'd highly suggest reviewing such quotations from the OT using the same reasoning process above. Christ's deity pops out everywhere.
Besides the many Scriptures which identify Christ with YHVH, and explicit statements regarding Christ's deity.
If you have read the NT, there are many quotes in the NT from the OT that are talking about Christ. These verses use the word "Lord" in reference to him. Go back to the OT and read the source verses. You will see that MANY of them refer to LORD in capital letters, which is referring to YHVH, the personal name of the one true God of Deuteronomy 6:4.
There aren't just a few; there are MANY verses like this. For example, compare Romans 10:13 with Joel 2:32:
Romans 10:13 [SUP]13 [/SUP]For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
This is quoted from Joel 2:32:
Joel 2:32 [SUP]32 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be those who escape, as the LORD has said, and among the survivors shall be those whom the LORD calls
Note the word LORD in capitals. This convention is used for referring to YHVH, the personal name of the one true God of Deuteronomy 6:4.
Deuteronomy 6:4 [SUP]4 [/SUP]“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.[SUP][a][/SUP]
No one disputes that YHVH is the personal name of the one true God, so this proves Christ is fully God (the mixed case form, Lord, is generally used for the Hebrew word Adonai, which is used to refer to God in a title sense, but is also used to refer to human beings, so it is less conclusive, however YHVH is indisputably the personal name of God).
By doing such comparisons, one can see that there are TONS of references to Christ's deity in the NT. This is besides the explicit statements.
I'm glad you posted. It gives me an opportunity to recommend this series of videos refuting anti-Trinitarians. It's excellent:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLKnzCuBYVJm7bPkqpjGW0RrtGX-M2aQSI
This playlist covers references to Christ's deity in the Old and New Testament, as well as refuting some of the "Council of Nicea" nonsense the anti-Trinitarians spout. In addition, it shows the problems with verses they attempt to use to refute the Trinity.
I'd also recommend a few books:
Forgotten Trinity, James White
Putting Jesus in His Place: The Case for the Deity of Christ, Rob Bowman
By the way, I used to be an anti-Trinitarian due to hanging out with the wrong crowd, although I never denied the deity of Christ. I found out that my "teachers" were blind, contentious fools.
Here's also some good remarks on John 1:1 from the ESV Study Bible:
From the Patristic period (Arius, c. AD 256—336) until the present day (Jehovah’s Witnesses), some have claimed that “the Word was God” merely identifies Jesus as a god rather than identifying Jesus as God, because the Greek word for God, Theos, is not preceded by a definite article. However, in Greek grammar, Colwell’s Rule indicates that the translation “a god” is not required, for lack of an article does not necessarily indicate indefiniteness (“a god”) but rather specifies that a given term (“God”) is the predicate nominative of a definite subject (“the Word”). This means that the context must determine the meaning of Theos here, and the context clearly indicates that this “God” that John is talking about (“the Word”) is the one true God who created all things (see also John 1:6, 12, 13, 18 for other examples of Theos without a definite article but clearly meaning “God”).
I was just reading John 1 and John 2 in depth this morning
The God of Christianity cared enough about us to come down and tabernacle amongst us and die a painful death on our behalf so we can be forgiven of our sins. The atonement is beautiful...it demonstrates that God does not compromise with sin, but that he also is merciful in that he provided for us to be forgiven. The cross is tangible evidence of God's love for us.
I think denying the Triune nature of God and the deity of Christ does severe violence to this most important manifestation of God's love for us. I think it reduces Christianity to the level of Islam...which has an indifferent, solitary non-involved god who forgives without demanding payment for sin. This sort of theology doesn't do justice to a just and loving God.
By the way, I really like the NET Bible because it places quotations from the OT in bold print so it is easy to identify them. MacArthur's Study Bible capitalizes them, I believe, so that's pretty handy. I'd highly suggest reviewing such quotations from the OT using the same reasoning process above. Christ's deity pops out everywhere.
Last edited:
S
I think we need to allow for the fact that the Gospels are an earlier stream of revelation than the other apostolic writings.
Christ did not fully develop the idea that Gentiles would be saved, for example. That didn't occur until some time after Christ's death.
The concept of "kingdom of God" is already known to include multiple facets. One aspect is that Christ himself is the king, and that he establishes his rule in individuals now within the Church, and that there is a future aspect where he will reign over all in a redeemed creation. He is reigning now from heaven...all authority has been given to him per Matthew 28:18-20.
I would also point out that Christ didn't reveal every aspect clearly when he was here. He revealed a lot of things to the apostle Paul, who recounted these things in his apostolic writings, as well as progressively revealing other aspects to the church itself, as recorded in the book of Acts. An example is the availability of salvation to Gentiles. Christ only hinted at this in his teachings..it was not fully revealed to the Apostles until Peter's vision.
Anyways, I think the "already but not yet" aspect of the Kingdom is something many Christians already understand. I know my fellowship has discussed it in depth.
Christ did not fully develop the idea that Gentiles would be saved, for example. That didn't occur until some time after Christ's death.
The concept of "kingdom of God" is already known to include multiple facets. One aspect is that Christ himself is the king, and that he establishes his rule in individuals now within the Church, and that there is a future aspect where he will reign over all in a redeemed creation. He is reigning now from heaven...all authority has been given to him per Matthew 28:18-20.
I would also point out that Christ didn't reveal every aspect clearly when he was here. He revealed a lot of things to the apostle Paul, who recounted these things in his apostolic writings, as well as progressively revealing other aspects to the church itself, as recorded in the book of Acts. An example is the availability of salvation to Gentiles. Christ only hinted at this in his teachings..it was not fully revealed to the Apostles until Peter's vision.
Anyways, I think the "already but not yet" aspect of the Kingdom is something many Christians already understand. I know my fellowship has discussed it in depth.
I was not saying there is a difference in the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven. I was saying that is what Jesus preached and even gave the commandment to his disciples to preach the same thing when he sent them out. I agree Jesus is the only way to enter the Kingdom but I ask do we just preach Jesus only and leave it at that. Because for most of my life that is all I heard was Jesus and nothing about the Kingdom.
What I think the gospel message is about is that God made a way for reconciliation the only way it could be done. The gospel is about God still loving us when we don't deserve it....and by all intents and purposes could have just dropped kicked us all into hell. The gospel is repairing brokenness and disconnection.
R
A great Question. Here is the Answer. Jesus told his Apostles to begin His Church in Jerusalem (Luke 24 verses 44-49 KJV.
That was on The Day of Pentecost according to the Jewish Church.
It begins with Acts Chapter One, and The First Christian Service began in Acts Chapter Two, verse . Apostle Peter Preached the very first message to all those gathered, who heard his message, and received Spiritual Conviction in Verse 37: "...Now when they heard this, THEY WERE PRICKED IN THEIR HEART ( Total Conviction) and said unto Peter, and to the rest of the Apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?"
Here is what Spirit filled Peter told them they must do to be truly be Born Again Christians, according to The Doctrine Jesus himself taught rhem: Verse 38.."Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST".
That is the one and only message told by any of the Apostles of Jesus to qualify to becoming a True child of Jesus Christ.
That was on The Day of Pentecost according to the Jewish Church.
It begins with Acts Chapter One, and The First Christian Service began in Acts Chapter Two, verse . Apostle Peter Preached the very first message to all those gathered, who heard his message, and received Spiritual Conviction in Verse 37: "...Now when they heard this, THEY WERE PRICKED IN THEIR HEART ( Total Conviction) and said unto Peter, and to the rest of the Apostles, Men and brethren, WHAT SHALL WE DO?"
Here is what Spirit filled Peter told them they must do to be truly be Born Again Christians, according to The Doctrine Jesus himself taught rhem: Verse 38.."Then Peter said unto them, REPENT, and BE BAPTIZED EVERYONE OF YOU, IN THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS, AND YOU SHALL RECEIVE THE GIFT OF THE HOLY GHOST".
That is the one and only message told by any of the Apostles of Jesus to qualify to becoming a True child of Jesus Christ.