What is Truth ?

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Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
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#1
When Pilate asked this of Jesus, Jesus in scripture did not answer back. I wondered about this for many years. I often thought Jesus, being God, just ignored a man who did not believe in Him. I always believed that Pilate was just being an arrogant Roman leader. For this reason God had hardened his heart and this was part of God's plan for our salvation through Jesus. It reminded me of Pharaoh, when Moses and God's people fled Egypt. Was Jesus ignoring Pilate because He already knew that Pilate would not believe? Did Jesus not answer Pilate because Pilate's heart was hardened and would refuse to believe? So many things made me wonder why Jesus would not answer Him. If He did it was not recorded in scriptures.

The truth cannot be simply told to an adult and then be expected to be believed. It was evident that Jesus was already not believed among those whom He had already been around in His ministry. That even the miracles that He had performed had no affect on them that witnessed them. He had preached, He had taught using the simplest of language to tell them of God and His love. Yet, there were those who chose not to believe.

In His ministry Jesus said that we must come to Him as little children. (Mark 10:15) What did this mean? What could He have possibly meant by coming to Him as a child? Faith of a child. I had always heard it, but never really thought about it. Children come to believe in things because of a need to believe in something. This need comes from the evidence of their trust in people and things they do not know or understand. The belief that whatever someone tells them, must be true. I think of Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and many others as a child. What was the need to believe? As a child we are taught that we will get presents if we are good. That the Easter Bunny would come and give us candy and eggs if we were faithful enough to go look for them. Rewards you might say was the need. I realized that it was something deeper. It was a need for attention, a need for trust. I knew what Faith was as a child, I had realized that faith as child was something God required of us to come to know Him.

What happened when you were young and your dad asked you to jump into his arms? He caught you. You just did it because he asked you to. You knew that your dad would catch you. Why? Why did you believe? Had he never not caught you before? Had he promised you that he would not catch you? Something, for the first time, your dad asked you to do, you did out of trust. Where did this trust come from? Why would you simply believe him? You did not know doubt. There was no evidence of doubt, there was no reason to believe he would not catch you.

What would have happened if you had reason enough to believe that he would not catch you? You would not have jumped into his arms.
It was a simple belief that let you jump. Your dad would not have let you jump if he had a doubt he could catch you. You knew because he asked you to and you wanted to jump into his arms. Out of love, out of trust and out of the need for him and his attention. You had to trust him. He already loved you even before you knew what love was. He gave to you this devotion before you even knew why or even what it meant. It was out of pure love you jumped into his arms. It was out of pure love that he asked you to jump into his arms. The result was him catching you and you getting that big hug of love. The reward was a building of trust from that day forward that when he asked you to jump, you did. It was security in knowing that you would be caught. That your safety was assured if he did ask you to do something, and you did it, that he would be there for you.

Later as you grew up, you learned more of love, you learned of trust. You thought about why your dad might love you. You learned that even in correction your dad loved you. That even when he seemed "out of touch" with you that he still loved you. Through times of patience waiting for an answer, even when you felt you did everything right, that trust was there. The biggest result of that first jump came in many steps. That jump would lead to riding a bike, to driving a car, to helping with homework. It would even culminate into the two of you talking about your relationship with someone you would one day fall in love with. The years of learning and the years of trust you developed became the norm for your relationship. It became simple to trust your dad. To believe what he told you. You simply came to understand that in times of need, you could trust your dad to always be there for you.

I go back to the original question asked of Pilate. What is truth? Could Pilate trust Jesus? Could Pilate understand as a child could? Could Pilate simply be told what the truth was of God and be expected to believe it? Let me put it this way, if Jesus told Pilate to set Him free because He was the Son of God, would Pilate have done it? Pilate was already asking Jesus what the truth of Him was. Pilate, I am sure was an intelligent man. A man of position because of his leadership, because of his devotion to the Roman Empire. A man whom we know was involved with many aspects of the legalities of his job. Pilate was involved also with the aspects of the people around him. Already living in a world where trust was of no use to him or those whom he served.

The culture was evident in his everyday position of his governorship. He allowed the Jewish Laws to be involved in the criminal aspects of the Roman Empire. Although Roman law was absolute, there was the issue of the day that political reasoning was just as important in the running of a society that the Romans had conquered. Pilate and the Roman Empire needed the influence of the leaders of those societies to make it more practical to govern. The Jews in this case were no different. It was not that they allowed the Romans to be there, it was out of necessity that they became involved with Roman politics. Corruption is a partnership. All of these things contributed to Pilate and his meeting with Jesus that day. Influence, politics, corruption. All things that an adult mind, and not a child's mind, would be privy to and able to understand.
 
Pilate would not believe. Pilate was already hardened by the life he lived. He was already influenced by what was around him. I do, however, want to believe that Pilate was curious of Jesus. That these people came to him to have someone executed for reasons he did not understand or believe in. The Jewish people had their own Laws. The Romans viewed them as religious laws. Why then would they be bringing a man to be judged by Pilate to be executed for a set of laws that he (Pilate) neither believed nor was subject to? These accusations were of an internal religious and/or political nature and did not conflict with Roman Law. After questioning Jesus, Pilate could find no evidence against Jesus that conflicted against the Roman laws. (John 18:38) This is evidence of Pilate's logic in the arrest, trial and execution of Jesus as a political and/or religious motive. This is the reason Pilate stated that he could not charge Jesus with any crime. And why they began to shout for Jesus to be executed, that he gave in to them and their demands. Therefore, for a man to stand before him claiming to be who He was, was surely evidence of something he did not want to be involved with politically. Pilate also was not a Jew, was not religious and was not willing to take part in this accusation. This would further enhance the civil unrest already growing under his role as Governor.

Pilate could not believe. He could not believe because he was unwilling to take that first step of faith. The fact that God already knew what action Pilate would take is of no consequence. Pharaoh's act of pursuit of God's people out of bondage led to his army's destruction which in turn allowed God's people to witness the miracle of God allowing them to escape that bondage. Pilate's act of allowing Jesus to be crucified because of his unbelief allowed God's people once again to be saved from bondage. This time the bondage was sin. The miracle was our salvation.

To show belief, you must be willing to do something in order to prove what you believe to be the truth. What evidence did Pilate have that Jesus was who He said He was? What evidence could Jesus give? Was Pilate willing to research this and find out? Was Pilate willing to go and ask of those people who believed? Was Pilate ready to go and seek evidence? Was Pilate ready to jump into Jesus arms? Where was Pilates faith? Pilate could not and would not believe because he was unwilling to seek the truth. Can you believe in something without evidence; yes. Can you have faith in something you do not trust; no. How could you, or how would you jump into your dad's arms if you did not believe he would catch you to begin with? Where then is faith? Faith is evidence, faith is proof of something. (Hebrews 11:1) True or False faith will prove it. Belief alone enables faith to happen. (Mark 9:23) Belief alone causes many to do things they otherwise would not have done. Like jumping into your father's arms without ever having done it before.

Why then would a child jump into a father's arms just because the father asked them to? The need for the truth. If you are unwilling to believe, then you will never know the truth. Once that truth is revealed, then your relationship becomes one of faith and trust. Faith is evidence of things you do not yet know. (Hebrews 11:1) This leads to the truth in whatever it is you first believed in to begin with. Without belief nothing is possible. This is why salvation is possible, because of belief. Faith leads you to the truth. Without first believing, then nothing else you do will be possible. (Mark 9:23) Believe and you will be saved. (John 3:16)

What is truth? Believe in Jesus as who He said He was. Seek Him out and have Faith enough to trust Him and the truth will be revealed to you. Belief is a choice. Belief requires no proof. Belief may save you, but until you believe, faith is impossible. Without Faith, then the truth will be an unknown. The truth in who God is comes from you, your belief. Your faith will reveal that truth. Seek the truth and you will find it. (John 8:31-32)
 
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Aug 12, 2010
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#2
When Pilate asked this of Jesus, Jesus in scripture did not answer back.
I only read this far at the moment.....would you mind posting the scripture, thanks.

Welcome to the forum!
 

Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#3
John 19:38

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
 
Aug 12, 2010
2,819
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#4
John 19:38

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.
Oh 18:38..

uhm...

Pilate didnt really wait around for an answer.

So..whats the gist of the rest of your post?

You wanna know what the truth is or summink?
 

Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#5
Why ask and then immediately leave? Even if he did not wait for an answer...Jesus still did not answer him. If He did then it would have been recorded.

The gist is...that it is something that has been on my mind for a while.

And in the post, I am thinking on What Truth is...not in the asking of the question.
 
I

Israel

Guest
#7
Look at it from Pilate's perspective. If I were him, looking at a man who I knew did nothing wrong or atleast deserving of death, but because of "circumstances", politics, and forces he was subjected to, Jesus is truly a victim of the system. Pilate feared losing his status in controlling the Jews, who would have undoubtedly caused a riot because they feared losing their power and control. He knows Jesus is innocent, the Jews know Jesus is innocent, but where was THIS TRUTH indeed!

For the bible states that NO man, is justified by the law.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#8
What is truth? Believe in Jesus as who He said He was. Seek Him out and have Faith enough to trust Him and the truth will be revealed to you. Belief is a choice. Belief requires no proof. Belief may save you, but until you believe, faith is impossible. Without Faith, then the truth will be an unknown. The truth in who God is comes from you, your belief. Your faith will reveal that truth. Seek the truth and you will find it. (John 8:31-32)
wow there is so much logical fallacies in your statement it makes my eyes cross.

I'll just name a few...



we have this one above concerning the loving earthly father image, what about the kids who grew up without a father or who had a father who raped and abused them?

after the first paragraphed I skimmed and don't have time to address the other flaws in reasoning and skimmed to your conclusion which since it is founded on shaky foundation would have been questioned, however I was hopeful you might in the end reach the gospel message.

however your message is not the Gospel of the Bible but a pick and chose your own God type scenario.

False Statement "the truth in who God is comes from you, your belief"

No if you have faith in YOU and YOUR beliefs then you have just created your own God and can now dress him or her up as you like. It is called idolatry.

Truth comes from GOd and God alone. Having faith in a being called JESUS is not enough. It takes repentance of sin and sound doctrine which is found from Hearing the Word of God and allowing GOD to write His commandments in the NEW heart and spirit He gives because of faith in JESUS who DIED for your sins on the cross and rose again...

as for Pilate not getting an answer it has more to do with a prophecy concerning Jesus then the state of Pilate's heart. Its in the OT somewhere, don't feel like digging it up at the moment.

Mark 15: 5
King James Bible
But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.


ask yourself if he was NOT touched by the testimony of Jesus why did he feel the need to wash his hands of His death?

oh why not here are the scriptures...

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth.

Matthew 27:12 When he was accused by the chief priests and the elders, he gave no answer.

Matthew 27:14 But Jesus made no reply, not even to a single charge--to the great amazement of the governor.

Mark 15:4 So again Pilate asked him, "Aren't you going to answer? See how many things they are accusing you of."

Luke 23:9 He plied him with many questions, but Jesus gave him no answer.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#9
Whenever I think of Pilates question I see it as he being in power knew quite well how the system works from a political viewpoint, to him he couldn't comprehend that Jesus would have a clue to the actual truth of politics. Also Pilate had no interest in the law of the pharasies but only roman law.
My 2cents :)
 
Dec 19, 2009
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#10
What is truth? Everything that Jesus says in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John is truth.
 

Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#11
TO AnandaHya:

People can believe in anything, it does not make it true. However, the truth CAN be believed. And therefore FAITH will reveal it to us. UNLESS we believe in the truth of something, then NO AMOUNT of FAITH will make it true. (responfing to your original quote)

NOW to respond:


we have this one above concerning the loving earthly father image, what about the kids who grew up without a father or who had a father who raped and abused them?

RESPONSE: (This is an example only. It is one of many that could have been used. If I offended then sorry. But the message and the allegory is there.)

after the first paragraphed I skimmed and don't have time to address the other flaws in reasoning and skimmed to your conclusion which since it is founded on shaky foundation would have been questioned, however I was hopeful you might in the end reach the gospel message.

RESPONSE: (If you believe there are flaws then please point them out. It is a discussion forum, not a pick out the flaws forum. I would like legitimate responses. Also, just skimming it might lead you to some of these questions. Instead of dismissing it autmatically and calling it flawed.)

however your message is not the Gospel of the Bible but a pick and chose your own God type scenario.

RESPONSE: (Can we not use our own lives as ways of explaining or discussing thoughts of scripture? Or use our own lives as ways of communicating in a discussion forum? Is this not done everyday in churches and on radio, etc?)

False Statement "the truth in who God is comes from you, your belief"

RESPONSE: (UNLESS we believe in GOD as who He said He is then what truth are we looking for or seeking? Unless we BELIEVE in God (JOHN 3:16, then what truth are we looking for?)

No if you have faith in YOU and YOUR beliefs then you have just created your own God and can now dress him or her up as you like. It is called idolatry.

RESPONSE: (NOWHERE did I say that I had faith in ME. I said Faith in GOD. And the above statement (as it is also there in the original) is there to be read. AND no where have I statede anything about idolatry. I am speaking of GOD. Not a made up god. Surely putting Faith into something false would lead you to the TRUTH of it not being true. Putting our TRUST in God (the Truth) will lead us to the TRUTH of God)......)

Truth comes from GOd and God alone. (AS I stated our SEEKING the TRUTH of God) Having faith in a being called JESUS is not enough. It takes repentance of sin (Is this not a part of Faith?) and sound doctrine which is found from Hearing the Word of God and allowing GOD to write His commandments in the NEW heart (Jesus said that the Commandments ARE written in out hearts, Paul said that once we are saved, that the LAW (Commandments will come naturally-repentance....) and spirit He gives because of faith in JESUS who DIED for your sins on the cross and rose again...(The HOLY SPIRIT leads us to the truth and understanding and I never said that I did not believe, I said it begins with belief as FAITH pleases God which is in our trust and HOPE in Him.)

I was hoping to discuss and not have a "flaw checking" discussion.
 
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C

Consumed

Guest
#12
Welcome to cc forums, where threads always can have the tendency to go off thread at times. Amazing how God uses things to teach us patience, even a forum.

Bless you
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#13


RESPONSE: (Can we not use our own lives as ways of explaining or discussing thoughts of scripture? Or use our own lives as ways of communicating in a discussion forum? Is this not done everyday in churches and on radio, etc?)

Yes you can use your life to explain and discuss scripture BUT everything you hear and see in some churches and some radio stations are not truth and that is why GOD tells us to test the spirits, discern between GOOD and BAD.

False Statement "the truth in who God is comes from you, your belief"

RESPONSE: (UNLESS we believe in GOD as who He said He is then what truth are we looking for or seeking? Unless we BELIEVE in God (JOHN 3:16, then what truth are we looking for?) People make up their gods all the time and they never realize they are deceived and come to the truth and die in that sin.

RESPONSE: (NOWHERE did I say that I had faith in ME. I said Faith in GOD. And the above statement (as it is also there in the original) is there to be read. AND no where have I statede anything about idolatry. I am speaking of GOD. Not a made up god. Surely putting Faith into something false would lead you to the TRUTH of it not being true. Putting our TRUST in God (the Truth) will lead us to the TRUTH of God)......) nope doesn't work like that YOU have to hear the TRUE Gospel message of Christ's death for sins and resurrection or do you not think that is need to "know god"?

...(The HOLY SPIRIT leads us to the truth and understanding and I never said that I did not believe, I said it begins with belief as FAITH pleases God which is in our trust and HOPE in Him.) no but neither did you state WHAT was necessary to believe in. like the gospel message of Christ, that would be nice....

I was hoping to discuss and not have a "flaw checking" discussion.


what do you consider a discussion?

I tell you what I agree with and believe, show where our thoughts are different and ask you to elaborate for me to see if we believe the same or if we are in a differing opinion on the topics set forth.

If I find you being illogical I point it out. If you want me just to sit back and say amen to everything you post and not tell you what I really think then just tell me and I won't waste my time reading and responding to you in the future.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#15
Welcome to cc forums, where threads always can have the tendency to go off thread at times. Amazing how God uses things to teach us patience, even a forum.

Bless you
haha consumed. I thought the topic was Pilate and why Jesus remained silent yet no comment on what I actually posted concerning that.... interesting....

So what are you thoughts on my assertion that Jesus did not respond in fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah that He was Passover lamb slaughter for the sin of the world.

Colossians 2:13-15
New King James Version (NKJV)
13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.


"as for Pilate not getting an answer it has more to do with a prophecy concerning Jesus then the state of Pilate's heart. "

Mark 15: 5
King James Bible
But Jesus yet answered nothing; so that Pilate marvelled.

Isaiah 53:7 He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his mouth; he was led like a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is silent, so he did not open his mouth


lol anyway welcome to CC.
 

Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
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#16
what do you consider a discussion? YOUR WORDS wow there is so much logical fallacies in your statement it makes my eyes cross.) Just your use of FALLICIES; It is an allegory not a lie. To automatically call it a fallacy and JUST pointing out a few seems more of a flaw checking thing rather than a legitimate discussion.

I tell you what I agree with and believe, show where our thoughts are different (I pointed them out) and ask you to elaborate for me to see if we believe the same or if we are in a differing opinion on the topics set forth.

If I find you being illogical I point it out. LOGIC was not the point If you want me just to sit back and say amen to everything you post and not tell you (No, we can disagree without calling someones post an ILLOGICAL FALLACY) what I really think then just tell me and I won't waste my time reading and responding to you in the future. (PLEASE respond, just not starting out calling something post a FALLACY as it implies it is a purposeful lie. Whcih is not what I was doing.)



Let's discuss and not autmatically call out someones posts ILLOGICAL, FALLACIES, etc
 

Messenger_T

Senior Member
Apr 4, 2011
179
3
18
#17
So what are you thoughts on my assertion that Jesus did not respond in fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah that He was Passover lamb slaughter for the sin of the world.


The prophecy in Isiah still does not give the reason why Jesus did not answer...As you also posted in several other scriptures that jesus did not answer. He WAS led away as a LAMB to slaughter. But the question asked (having been giving no answe) IS to what i am referring to. Is it that TRUTH has to be sought as Jesus said in HIM and belief in the heart of who He said He is required?
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#18
ahh Messenger, I think I hurt your feelings and for that I apologize. I normally try and be more tactful but of late people have told me I'm a "man pleaser" and "suck up" and it has caused me to be more blunt and less accommodating.

I never got the impression that you were trying to lie or deceive someone.

I was just trying to warn you that some people you might encounter would react negatively to your story and giving you the reason why (you assuming everyone has a good and happy childhood and loving father would push away the group of people who did not and make them feel isolated and alone)

I just imagined someone giving such statements from the pulpit and the reaction it would have on many of my friends who would not be able to relate to such statements of faith and would and have wanders far from God's truth because of such vague messages.

anyway sorry for hurting your feelings.
 
C

Consumed

Guest
#19
So what are you thoughts on my assertion that Jesus did not respond in fulfillment of the prophecy of Isaiah that He was Passover lamb slaughter for the sin of the world.


The prophecy in Isiah still does not give the reason why Jesus did not answer...As you also posted in several other scriptures that jesus did not answer. He WAS led away as a LAMB to slaughter. But the question asked (having been giving no answe) IS to what i am referring to. Is it that TRUTH has to be sought as Jesus said in HIM and belief in the heart of who He said He is required?
Gift of salvation, gift of repentance, who seek who out to get given truth?? Who reveals the truth?? Jesus said to Pilate he couldn't do anything less the Father allowed him to, not sure what your leading to.
 
A

AnandaHya

Guest
#20
The prophecy in Isiah still does not give the reason why Jesus did not answer...As you also posted in several other scriptures that jesus did not answer. He WAS led away as a LAMB to slaughter.
all the scriptures have to do with the same event. JUST before Jesus was cruxified.

Isaiah tells the world that JESUS did not answer because HE was the passover Lamb and when Lambs are slaughter they do not Speak.

the foreshadowing is there and the event reveals the Truth, what more are you seeking?

Yes God tells us to SEEK the kingdom of God but that is not what is happening at this point of the gospel narrative.

Perhaps you would like these verses better to build your case on the importance of Seeking God....

Matthew 6:32-34
New King James Version (NKJV)
32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you. 34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.