What was the LAW that was added?

[Eccl12and13]

OK Readers...now that we know that it was Paul and ALL of his writings we have been warned about....let's ask some questions. Let's get into some meat of the word.


Paul tells us that a law was ADDED because of transgressions. Let's read....

Gal.3
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

And I know there are some that believe a law was not added, so let's read another scripture from Paul.

Rom.5
[13] For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


Again we have Paul telling us a law was added AND removed. But take note that SIN was not removed.


Now let's understand something here before going on. Let's ask the question; What is SIN?

1 John 3
[4] Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.



Now let's try to put TWO and TWO together to come up with a correct answer. Let's start with Rom.5:13 and break it down;


"For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

So until the law... What law is this that Paul is speaking about? Well....whatever law it is, SIN was still here.

And what is SIN? It is the breaking of God's laws. So what do we have? Until whatever law Paul is speaking about came, there was still the BREAKING of God's laws.

Do we not have TWO laws being spoken of above? The one that was "UNTIL", and those that were being broken; SIN! Let's continue.....

"...but sin is not imputed when there is no law."

So 'sin', the breaking of God's laws...are NOT done away with when there is no law!
So which law is it that is 'no law'?
What is it that is trying to be conveyed by Paul?

The breaking of God's laws (Sin) was around before (UNTIL) a law came AND the breaking of God's laws (Sin) does not stop happening when the law that came is no more.

Peter was RIGHT! Understanding Paul's writings can be hard. Now let's move on to Gal.3:19.

No matter how you look at it Paul tells us that SIN, the breaking of God's laws does not stop when some other law is no more. It is clear that Paul speaks of TWO sets of laws.

How many sets of laws do you have spoken of above?


Well SIN is yet being committed. And sin is the breaking of God's laws. That's one set!

Then Paul tells us that "...there is no law." Well whatever law Paul is speaking about cannot be those that continue to be broken... now we have ANOTHER set of laws. That's TWO!


Now let's combine what Paul says in Rom.5:13 with what he tells us below in Gal.;


Gal.3
[19] Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


Paul asks the question; What purpose did the law serve?
His answer; It was added because of transgressions. Now let's break this down;

It was added... What was added? The law that Paul asked what purpose it served. So what we have is something ADDITIONAL to something that is already in place.

Now WHY was this law added? Paul tells us a it was added BECAUSE of transgressions. And what does it mean to transgress? We already know that from 1 John 3:4; "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."

So we have a law that was ADDED because of sin, or because man sinned, which is the breaking of God's laws!

Readers.....how many laws do we have here? We have the set of laws that Paul tells us were ADDED and we have the laws of God that were being broken, which is WHY Paul tells us a law was added. We have TWO laws being spoken of here.

Let's continue.....

"...till the seed should come to whom the promise was made..."

So how long was this law that was added because of sin to be around? "...till the seed should come to whom the promise was made..."

And who was the seed that would some and who were promises made? Let's find out...

Gal.3
[22] But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
[23] But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[24] Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[25] But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

So the seed that was to come was Jesus Christ. And the promises were made to those that believe.


So...getting back to verse [19];


Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


So we have a set of laws that were ADDED because God's other laws were being broken/transgressions!

And this law that was ADDED was ONLY to be around until Christ came. Until Christ came the people were held, 'kept under the law'!

But WHICH law was it that the people were kept under? The law that was ADDED, not the laws that were being transgressed.

And which law was it that was their schoolmaster? The law that was ADDED; " Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ..."

And what happened when Christ was revealed to them for what He was and came to do? What happened to the law that was ADDED?


" But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."


Let's review:

First Rom.5:13

For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

- There was (SIN) the breaking of God's laws until a law came.
- The breaking of God's laws (SIN) continued to happen when there was no law.

How many laws are spoken of above? TWO! The laws that continue to be broken AND the law that is no more.


Next, Gal.3

- We have a set of laws that were added because of transgressions/sin, which is the breaking of God's
laws.
- This set of laws that were added was only to be, "...till the seed should come..."
- We know this seed to be Jesus Christ.
- This law that was ADDED was to be a schoolmaster to the people.
- When Jesus came, the people were no longer under a schoolmaster, they were no longer under the set of
laws that were ADDED. This law that was ADDED is no more.

How many laws are being spoken of by Paul in Gal.3? TWO! The laws that were ADDED, and those being broken causing God to ADD laws!


Now were any of the laws that were being transgressed done away with? Were any of the laws that caused a need for God to ADD more laws done away with? In other words....was there still sin in the world? Was man still breaking God's laws AFTER Jesus came and died? Let's go AGAIN to Rom.5:13


Rom.5
[13] (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


YES! For until the law sin was in the world AND after the law that was ADDED was no longer needed, sin, the breaking of God's laws was YET in the world!


Readers.....how many laws does Paul speak of? TWO!


Now let's put TWO and TWO together;

We have a set of laws that were ADDED because of sin. And this law was only to be around until Jesus came. Then we have another set of laws that did NOT get rid of sin, or the breaking of God's laws by man, when it was no more.


Could Paul be speaking about the same laws? The one that was added and the one that was no more but did not remove sin?


Ok readers.....Here is the next set of questions.


What was this law that was ADDED because of (SIN) transgressions? Gal.3"19

What was the law that did NOT get rid of sin when it went away? Rom.5:13

How do we know WHICH law it is that Paul speaks of when we are reading his writings?



.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Just one continuous law from the beginning that encompasses all others.
Do not manifest harmful thoughts. Don't even let them become contemplation.

"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

And Eve did not "add" that second part to the word. She cited correctly, even if it was not previously recorded. Otherwise, she would have already sinned before eating by bearing false witness.

 

[Eccl12and13]

Just one continuous law from the beginning that encompasses all others.
Do not manifest harmful thoughts. Don't even let them become contemplation.

"But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die."

And Eve did not "add" that second part to the word. She cited correctly, even if it was not previously recorded. Otherwise, she would have already sinned before eating by bearing false witness.

It could not have been one continuous law for we have the following verse;

Heb.7
[12] For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

For the set of laws that God added, He also had to make a change in it. If Paul is speaking about one continuous law that that would mean ALL of God's laws have been changed AND nailed to His cross.

But we know that there is still the breaking of idolatry, lying, stealing, killing, coveting, fornication and the rest of God's laws that He will return to punish mankind for the breaking thereof. These laws have not been changed nor done away with.



The law that was added and had to be changed came many years after Abraham;

Gal.3
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

The law that God added was done so 430 AFTER the covenant was made with Abraham. This law did not exist during Abraham's day.

Exod.12
[40] Now the sojourning of the children of Israel, who dwelt in Egypt, was four hundred and thirty years.
[41] And it came to pass at the end of the four hundred and thirty years, even the selfsame day it came to pass, that all the hosts of the LORD went out from the land of Egypt.

This law that God added was given to Moses. It was to keep them in hope until the one would come to whom the promises were made.

It was to be a schoolmaster to them. And once Jesus came and accomplished what He came to do, this law that was added was no longer needed. It was nailed to His cross.

There was a law that was added to God's already existing laws. It was because of the breaking of these existing laws, from day one, that God had to add this law given to Moses.


.

 

[celestemekent]

Wolfinoxhide writes "And Eve did not "add" that second part to the word. She cited correctly, even if it was not previously recorded."

The problem I have with your assertion is that; who was there in the garden to know what was said? Certainly not you. If there was only God, Adam and Eve, then who made the mistake not to include this phrase. It is beyond ridiculous to think of that conversation as quoted as though some tape recorder was there to make sure everything was precisely quoted. If you assume that it was literally God who spoke to Moses and dictated the first five books of the Pentateuch then you can only blame God Himself for leaving it out of the record. Anyone offering anything else must offer a very good reason for correcting God Himself. You wont find any prophets contradicting God so it can only come from Satan himself that comes up with your assertion.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

Otherwise, she would have already sinned before eating by bearing false witness.

Best I can do.

 

[Grandpa]

What was this law that was ADDED because of (SIN) transgressions? Gal.3"19

What was the law that did NOT get rid of sin when it went away? Rom.5:13

How do we know WHICH law it is that Paul speaks of when we are reading his writings?



.

#1 The Law written on tablets of stone.

#2 The Law written on tablets of stone.

#3 Not so difficult... The Law written on tablets of stone.

 

[feedm3]

What was this law that was ADDED because of (SIN) transgressions? Gal.3"19

All Law in general, God's commands. Is started in Gen. Yet man needed more Laws to guide him.

If there is no violation of a command, then there is no sin - I Jn 3:4

Notice Satan did not come to deceive EVE until there was a law given. "thou shalt not eat of the tree.."

He had nothing until this, because before their were no laws, there was nothing to temp her with.

But after the law was given, we read "did God say you shall not eat of the tree?", then the lie, "thou shalt not surely die".

So we see what Paul means here:
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead

Of course man would do what he pleases without God's laws, things that are not after the image of God. SO he gave us laws, and with those laws, sin takes it's opportunity in any dispensation. The patriarchal, the Mosaic, and even in the Christian dispensation.

What was the law that did NOT get rid of sin when it went away? Rom.5:13

The Law of Moses, Col 2:14-f.

When this was done away with the only sin that left, was the sins of not keeping parts of the law.

Yet the world was not left with nothing at this time(Gal 4:4).
The NT has many commands it gives us, therefore many laws, so many sins as well.

I know teaching we are under any laws is not popular, as some want to believe grace did away with all law in general. That is not what the Bible teaches.

How do we know WHICH law it is that Paul speaks of when we are reading his writings?

By considering the immediate context, and the remote context.

Example:
"The law" is stated many times in Romans. What is the message. Christians do not have to abide under the law Moses, and to do so is sin. Same message in Gal how had false teachers trying to bind circumcision on Christians.

But even in Gal, in chapter 6, the immediate context shows verse two is not speaking of the laws of Moses.

Gal 6:2 ....fulfill the law of Christ..."

James speaks of the "perfect law of liberty" 1:25.

We know he cannot be speaking of the law of Moses, it was the opposite of liberty, it is called the law of "bondage".

Bound to ordinances, that were only a shadow of what was to come - Heb 10:1

 

[loveme1]

Exodus 24

And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off. 2And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him.
3And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, All the words which the LORD hath said will we do. 4And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD. 6And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient. 8And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

9Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel: 10And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness. 11And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

12And the LORD said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. 13And Moses rose up, and his minister Joshua: and Moses went up into the mount of God. 14And he said unto the elders, Tarry ye here for us, until we come again unto you: and, behold, Aaron and Hur are with you: if any man have any matters to do, let him come unto them. 15And Moses went up into the mount, and a cloud covered the mount. 16And the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud. 17And the sight of the glory of the LORD was like devouring fire on the top of the mount in the eyes of the children of Israel. 18And Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights.

Deuteronomy 31

1And Moses went and spake these words unto all Israel. 2And he said unto them, I am an hundred and twenty years old this day; I can no more go out and come in: also the LORD hath said unto me, Thou shalt not go over this Jordan. 3The LORD thy God, he will go over before thee, and he will destroy these nations from before thee, and thou shalt possess them: and Joshua, he shall go over before thee, as the LORD hath said. 4And the LORD shall do unto them as he did to Sihon and to Og, kings of the Amorites, and unto the land of them, whom he destroyed. 5And the LORD shall give them up before your face, that ye may do unto them according unto all the commandments which I have commanded you. 6Be strong and of a good courage, fear not, nor be afraid of them: for the LORD thy God, he it is that doth go with thee; he will not fail thee, nor forsake thee.
7And Moses called unto Joshua, and said unto him in the sight of all Israel, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou must go with this people unto the land which the LORD hath sworn unto their fathers to give them; and thou shalt cause them to inherit it. 8And the LORD, he it is that doth go before thee; he will be with thee, he will not fail thee, neither forsake thee: fear not, neither be dismayed.

9And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel. 10And Moses commanded them, saying, At the end of every seven years, in the solemnity of the year of release, in the feast of tabernacles, 11When all Israel is come to appear before the LORD thy God in the place which he shall choose, thou shalt read this law before all Israel in their hearing. 12Gather the people together, men, and women, and children, and thy stranger that is within thy gates, that they may hear, and that they may learn, and fear the LORD your God, and observe to do all the words of this law: 13And that their children, which have not known any thing, may hear, and learn to fear the LORD your God, as long as ye live in the land whither ye go over Jordan to possess it.

14And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thy days approach that thou must die: call Joshua, and present yourselves in the tabernacle of the congregation, that I may give him a charge. And Moses and Joshua went, and presented themselves in the tabernacle of the congregation. 15And the LORD appeared in the tabernacle in a pillar of a cloud: and the pillar of the cloud stood over the door of the tabernacle. 16And the LORD said unto Moses, Behold, thou shalt sleep with thy fathers; and this people will rise up, and go a whoring after the gods of the strangers of the land, whither they go to be among them, and will forsake me, and break my covenant which I have made with them. 17Then my anger shall be kindled against them in that day, and I will forsake them, and I will hide my face from them, and they shall be devoured, and many evils and troubles shall befall them; so that they will say in that day, Are not these evils come upon us, because our God is not among us? 18And I will surely hide my face in that day for all the evils which they shall have wrought, in that they are turned unto other gods.

19Now therefore write ye this song for you, and teach it the children of Israel: put it in their mouths, that this song may be a witness for me against the children of Israel. 20For when I shall have brought them into the land which I sware unto their fathers, that floweth with milk and honey; and they shall have eaten and filled themselves, and waxen fat; then will they turn unto other gods, and serve them, and provoke me, and break my covenant. 21And it shall come to pass, when many evils and troubles are befallen them, that this song shall testify against them as a witness; for it shall not be forgotten out of the mouths of their seed: for I know their imagination which they go about, even now, before I have brought them into the land which I sware. 22Moses therefore wrote this song the same day, and taught it the children of Israel.

23And he gave Joshua the son of Nun a charge, and said, Be strong and of a good courage: for thou shalt bring the children of Israel into the land which I sware unto them: and I will be with thee.

24And it came to pass, when Moses had made an end of writing the words of this law in a book, until they were finished, 25That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. 27For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death? 28Gather unto me all the elders of your tribes, and your officers, that I may speak these words in their ears, and call heaven and earth to record against them. 29For I know that after my death ye will utterly corrupt yourselves, and turn aside from the way which I have commanded you; and evil will befall you in the latter days; because ye will do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger through the work of your hands.

30And Moses spake in the ears of all the congregation of Israel the words of this song, until they were ended.

 

[Grandpa]

All Law in general, God's commands. Is started in Gen. Yet man needed more Laws to guide him.

If there is no violation of a command, then there is no sin - I Jn 3:4

Notice Satan did not come to deceive EVE until there was a law given. "thou shalt not eat of the tree.."

He had nothing until this, because before their were no laws, there was nothing to temp her with.

But after the law was given, we read "did God say you shall not eat of the tree?", then the lie, "thou shalt not surely die".

So we see what Paul means here:
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead

Of course man would do what he pleases without God's laws, things that are not after the image of God. SO he gave us laws, and with those laws, sin takes it's opportunity in any dispensation. The patriarchal, the Mosaic, and even in the Christian dispensation.

That would make sense if Adam and Eve had transgressed BEFORE the commandment was given. But they didn't.

The nation of Israel transgressed against God and AFTER that transgression the Law was given.

The Law of Moses, Col 2:14-f.

When this was done away with the only sin that left, was the sins of not keeping parts of the law.

Yet the world was not left with nothing at this time(Gal 4:4).
The NT has many commands it gives us, therefore many laws, so many sins as well.

I know teaching we are under any laws is not popular, as some want to believe grace did away with all law in general. That is not what the Bible teaches.

Your first sentence is correct. The rest is confusion. Just read your 2nd sentence again and see if it makes any sense.

The NT commands are the Laws of God MAGNIFIED. This is what the Lord Jesus did. He didn't water God's Laws down so that men could appear to keep them. He magnified them so we would know what we are up against.

By considering the immediate context, and the remote context.

Example:
"The law" is stated many times in Romans. What is the message. Christians do not have to abide under the law Moses, and to do so is sin. Same message in Gal how had false teachers trying to bind circumcision on Christians.

But even in Gal, in chapter 6, the immediate context shows verse two is not speaking of the laws of Moses.

Gal 6:2 ....fulfill the law of Christ..."

James speaks of the "perfect law of liberty" 1:25.

We know he cannot be speaking of the law of Moses, it was the opposite of liberty, it is called the law of "bondage".

Bound to ordinances, that were only a shadow of what was to come - Heb 10:1

The perfect law of liberty is FREEDOM from the law of Moses written on stone tablets.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

When we abide in Christ He produces this fruit in us. We are not under law when we abide in Christ, we are under His Grace.

If you think you are under law this is what happens;
Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

 

[feedm3]

[/size]

That would make sense if Adam and Eve had transgressed BEFORE the commandment was given. But they didn't.

How would it make sense for them to transgress before a command was given?????

There would have been nothign to transgress BEFORE the command was given.

I think you need to read again what I wrote, because your the one not making sense here.

The perfect law of liberty is FREEDOM from the law of Moses written on stone tablets.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

What's your point? Of course there is no law AGAINST meekness and temperance. What law could be against such Godly characteristics?

Are you saying this means there is no law at all concerning anything?

If you think you are under law this is what happens;
Romans 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead

.


So your saying you are not under any law at all? So then there is no such thing as sin for you, sense you have no law? I Jn 3:4

So NT commands are just suggestions? NOT LAWS?

 

[Eccl12and13]

#1 The Law written on tablets of stone.

#2 The Law written on tablets of stone.

#3 Not so difficult... The Law written on tablets of stone.

We still have those laws that were written on stone. There will people that will be punished for breaking those laws that were written in stone, therefore they cannot be the ones that Paul speaks of that are no more. Nor can they be the laws that were added since they ALL were around since the beginning.


.

 

[WolfInOxHide]

The only change in the law was how we are to perceive it.

Edenistic: outward and inward practice
Torah: outward practice modifies inwardly
Messianic: inward practice modifies outwardly

But all the laws themselves are the same, and arguing over which we must "obey" is moot, because if you "love as I have loved", then you won't willingly commit those transgressions.

Will you?

 

[Eccl12and13]

So we see what Paul means here:
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead

Paul was speaking about sin being dead to him in the above verse.

Before Paul new, read or was taught of God's laws, sin was running rampant in his life. Paul did not know what sin was before he read God's laws, thus sin, for him, was dead.

Now let's read what happened when Paul read God's laws;

Rom.7
[9] For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Above when Paul says he was alive, he means he was alive doing whatever it was he wanted to do. But when he received that knowledge of God's laws, it brought with it the knowledge of sin. And that old Paul that was running rampant committing all sorts of sins died.



.

 

[Eccl12and13]

All Law in general, God's commands. Is started in Gen. Yet man needed more Laws to guide him.

]

The law that was added was done so 430 years AFTER the promises were made to Abraham;


Gal.3
[17] And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
[18] For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.



.

 

[Grandpa]

How would it make sense for them to transgress before a command was given?????

There would have been nothign to transgress BEFORE the command was given.

I think you need to read again what I wrote, because your the one not making sense here.

I guess you weren't following along. What was the Law that was added because of transgressions was the question.


Galatians 3:18-19
18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

That's the Law written on stones. The Israelites had transgressed against God by murmuring and complaining against Him.

What's your point? Of course there is no law AGAINST meekness and temperance. What law could be against such Godly characteristics?

Are you saying this means there is no law at all concerning anything?.

I'm showing this is the reasoning behind Christians not being under the law. The Law is for transgressors.


.

So your saying you are not under any law at all? So then there is no such thing as sin for you, sense you have no law? I Jn 3:4

So NT commands are just suggestions? NOT LAWS?

That is correct, I am not under Law. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The reason why there is no condemnation is because the Lord makes our spirit alive. We are alive to Christ and He produces fruit in our lives.

The NT commands are God's Law magnified. I thought I already explained all that.

 

[Grandpa]

We still have those laws that were written on stone. There will people that will be punished for breaking those laws that were written in stone, therefore they cannot be the ones that Paul speaks of that are no more. Nor can they be the laws that were added since they ALL were around since the beginning.


.

They are no more for those who are in Christ Jesus. For everyone else they are still in effect.

1 Timothy 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

The Laws written on stone were added because of transgression. You'll have to go back and read your bible to verify it. God didn't give the 10 commandments to Adam.

 

[Eccl12and13]

God didn't give the 10 commandments to Adam.[/COLOR]

Really? So it was ok to worship false god's, kill, lie, steal, covet, commit adultery, disrespect parents during Adams day with no consequences?

Do really believe that NONE of God's laws existed until they were given to Moses?

God destroyed ALL of His creation except for the animals on the ark and 8 people because man did not keep His laws.

God destroyed 2 cities and the surrounding suburbs because of the sins of men.

Let's read some of the laws that men knew of and were punished for BEFORE they were given to Moses;

Gen. 4
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Notice what God said ‘lieth at the door’ for Cain….SIN! And sin is to break Gods law. And did Cain sin?

[8] And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Now do we have any record telling us this law was written down? No! But yet Cain still knew it was wrong. How? God told him so. That is how everybody knew what was wrong and what was right. If it wasn’t written down it HAD to be passed by word of mouth. God spoke to His children and they, in turn, told the rest of mankind.

So we have MURDER BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [13]Thou shalt not kill. Let’s read more.

Gen. 12
[13] Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
[17] And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
[18] And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
[19] Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

Now how did the Pharaoh know this was wrong? Was it written or did somebody tell him? Either way, the fact remains that he KNEW! And not only did he know...he knew it was wrong in the eyes of the true and living God.

So we have ADULTERY BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [14] Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Gen. 30
[31] And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock:
[32] I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.
[33] So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come, when it shall come for my hire before thy face: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the sheep, that shall be counted stolen with me.

So we have STEALING BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [15] Thou shalt not steal.

Josh. 24 [2] And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

Notice when they served ‘other gods’. It was on the ‘other side of the flood’!

So we have IDOLATRY BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [3] Thou shalt have no other gods ` before me.


Just because we do not find God's written anywhere BEFORE they were given to Moses does not mean they did not exist.


ALL of God's laws were given to ALL of mankind and they were to be obeyed!


.

 

[Eccl12and13]

They are no more for those who are in Christ Jesus. For everyone else they are still in effect.

Was Paul in Christ Jesus?

When he read God's laws did he not do his best to keep them and tell those he taught to keep them?

Rom.7
[7] What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

1 Cor.5
[10] Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
[11] But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Cor.6
[10] Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph.5
[3] But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
[5] For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Col.3
[5] Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
[6] For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:


This does not sound like Paul is saying God's laws are no more for those that are in Christ Jesus.

If anything....it sounds as though Paul is telling those that are trying to BE in Christ Jesus they need to stop breaking God's laws and commandments.


.

 

[Grandpa]

Really? So it was ok to worship false god's, kill, lie, steal, covet, commit adultery, disrespect parents during Adams day with no consequences?

Do really believe that NONE of God's laws existed until they were given to Moses?

God destroyed ALL of His creation except for the animals on the ark and 8 people because man did not keep His laws.

God destroyed 2 cities and the surrounding suburbs because of the sins of men.

Let's read some of the laws that men knew of and were punished for BEFORE they were given to Moses;

Gen. 4
[6] And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
[7] If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

Notice what God said ‘lieth at the door’ for Cain….SIN! And sin is to break Gods law. And did Cain sin?

[8] And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.

Now do we have any record telling us this law was written down? No! But yet Cain still knew it was wrong. How? God told him so. That is how everybody knew what was wrong and what was right. If it wasn’t written down it HAD to be passed by word of mouth. God spoke to His children and they, in turn, told the rest of mankind.

So we have MURDER BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [13]Thou shalt not kill. Let’s read more.

Gen. 12
[13] Say, I pray thee, thou art my sister: that it may be well with me for thy sake; and my soul shall live because of thee.
[17] And the LORD plagued Pharaoh and his house with great plagues because of Sarai Abram's wife.
[18] And Pharaoh called Abram, and said, What is this that thou hast done unto me? why didst thou not tell me that she was thy wife?
[19] Why saidst thou, She is my sister? so I might have taken her to me to wife: now therefore behold thy wife, take her, and go thy way.

Now how did the Pharaoh know this was wrong? Was it written or did somebody tell him? Either way, the fact remains that he KNEW! And not only did he know...he knew it was wrong in the eyes of the true and living God.

So we have ADULTERY BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [14] Thou shalt not commit adultery.

Gen. 30
[31] And he said, What shall I give thee? And Jacob said, Thou shalt not give me any thing: if thou wilt do this thing for me, I will again feed and keep thy flock:
[32] I will pass through all thy flock to day, removing from thence all the speckled and spotted cattle, and all the brown cattle among the sheep, and the spotted and speckled among the goats: and of such shall be my hire.
[33] So shall my righteousness answer for me in time to come, when it shall come for my hire before thy face: every one that is not speckled and spotted among the goats, and brown among the sheep, that shall be counted stolen with me.

So we have STEALING BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [15] Thou shalt not steal.

Josh. 24 [2] And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other gods.

Notice when they served ‘other gods’. It was on the ‘other side of the flood’!

So we have IDOLATRY BEFORE MOSES! Exod. 20 [3] Thou shalt have no other gods ` before me.


Just because we do not find God's written anywhere BEFORE they were given to Moses does not mean they did not exist.


ALL of God's laws were given to ALL of mankind and they were to be obeyed!


.

The Law was not given to Adam. It was given to Moses.

It was never ok to transgress against God. God punished those who did so.

You won't be able to understand Paul if you don't know what the Law is, who it was given to and what it is designed to do.

 

[feedm3]

That is correct, I am not under Law. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. The reason why there is no condemnation is because the Lord makes our spirit alive. We are alive to Christ and He produces fruit in our lives.

The NT commands are God's Law magnified. I thought I already explained all that.

So your free to live how please despite the commands of the NT?

Do we have commands in the NT?

If yes, are we under them?

If no, then please explain how their is still sin.