What will you do when God calls for civil disobedience?

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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#21
When you need to engage in civil disobedience, contact a Christian law firm that specializes in religious liberty. They will inform you of you rights and guaranteed liberties and help you create a plan of action. If you go about it properly, you might even influence laws to be changed. The important thing from a legal aspect is setting case precedent that furthers our cause. By acting foolishly or impetuously, you can set case precedent that sets us back and makes our liberties even harder to defend. You can send me a pm, and I can give you more information.
Misty...this is a great post:)

just a thought - perhaps a thread in Miscellaneous?
surely no one would want to give legal advice over the internet, but some basic legal education and resources would be cool to have at hand.
if you have some background/qualification etc, i say go for it.
just sayin'.
zone
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#22
to the OP: civil disobedience is necessary when the government restricts evangelism, discipleship, and fellowship. However, violence to gain those is not a Christ-like idea.
I would add when govt. is also involved in infanticide, genocide, geriatricide, democide etc. it needs to be resisted.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
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#23
There is a difference between acknowledging the authority of a Government, and obeying/participating in their Laws, especially when those Laws conflict with God's Law.

Me personally? I obey the Laws of my Government because Scripture says to......however, should a Law conflict with God's Law, I will obey God's Law, and I will joyously accept the punishment that my Government may bestow upon me for disobeying their Law. Did not the Apostles do the same? Did not Paul do this more than once? Were they not imprisoned for preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and when released from prison, instructed to not preach again, and they went directly out and began anew preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

I will FIRST AND ALWAYS obey God........and in obedience to Him, I will obey the Laws of my Government until they go against God's Law. I would think any believer would do the same would they not? Else are we not DENYING God?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#24
I would add when govt. is also involved in infanticide, genocide, geriatricide, democide etc. it needs to be resisted.
not to derail redtent - c.n.: i just heard 'obamacare' actually provides for 70-100,000 subsidized abortions anually (? true, don't know yet).
and we know obama and co. are for literal infanticide...so ya.

agree.
 

Huckleberry

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
1,698
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#25
I think all here need to know about "Clergy Response Teams"

So there you have it - Homeland Security are working with local police departments and religious leaders to prepare for the declaration of martial law and in particular developing techniques they will employ during the crisis to "quell dissent." Phony Christian leaders are brainwashing their congregations to accept the premise that the totalitarian police state is "of the Lord" and that they should get on their knees and lick jackboots while the round-ups take place as citizens are processed into quarantine zones and detention camps by the National Guard and U.S. troops returning from Iraq.

The precedent for mass gun confiscation and martial law in times of a real or manufactured emergency was set during Hurricane Katrina, when police and National Guard patrols forced home owners - even in areas unaffected by the hurricane - to hand over their legally owned firearms at gunpoint. This is a clear precursor for the imminent declaration of a state of emergency, a scenario that President Bush codified in his recent Presidential Decision Directive of May 9th, which states in the event of a "catastrophic event" the President can take total control over the government and the country, bypassing all other levels of government at the state, federal, local, territorial and tribal levels, and thus ensuring total unprecedented dictatorial power.​
The scope of the program is so secretive that even Homeland Security Committee member and Congressman Peter DeFazio was denied access to view the classified portion of the documents.
I quit worrying about this kind of stuff in '95, the year I got saved. Before that I was very concerned with "conspiracy theories", which back then were not as widely discussed. Now I understand that there is really only one conspiracy that matters; Satan conspiring against mankind. The Book's already been Written. We all know how It ends.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#26
I quit worrying about this kind of stuff in '95, the year I got saved. Before that I was very concerned with "conspiracy theories", which back then were not as widely discussed. Now I understand that there is really only one conspiracy that matters; Satan conspiring against mankind. The Book's already been Written. We all know how It ends.
there's nothing wrong with knowing if your pastor is colluding with gov't without the congregation's knowledge.
and being paid for it.
 
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Huckleberry

Senior Member
Aug 25, 2013
1,698
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#27
there's nothing wrong with knowing if your pastor is colluding with gov't without the congregation's knowledge.
and being paid for it.
Agreed, but how would you know?
I don't worry about such things.
Got enough to worry about.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#28
Agreed, but how would you know?
I don't worry about such things.
Got enough to worry about.
i don't worry either:)
i just like to be thorough.
i asked mine outright:rolleyes:
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
45
0
#29
Misty...this is a great post:)

just a thought - perhaps a thread in Miscellaneous?
surely no one would want to give legal advice over the internet, but some basic legal education and resources would be cool to have at hand.
if you have some background/qualification etc, i say go for it.
just sayin'.
zone
Thank you!

Since I am on the legal team at one of these firms, I'll have to think about what I am allowed to say without giving away which firm I work for or compromising attorney/client privilege. But I will certainly see how I can help.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
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#30
not to derail redtent - c.n.: i just heard 'obamacare' actually provides for 70-100,000 subsidized abortions anually (? true, don't know yet).
and we know obama and co. are for literal infanticide...so ya.

agree.
Don't be looking for me in the BOC line, I'll die in protest before going to that oven.
 

vic1980

Senior Member
Apr 25, 2013
1,653
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#31

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
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#32
L

LT

Guest
#33
Then we should share the Gospel more! These people aren't saved, or they wouldn't be making these laws.
Arguing about the laws will do no good. The world is destined for fire either way, and all men are destined for hell: unless they believe in Jesus Christ.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,707
3,650
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#34
Then we should share the Gospel more! These people aren't saved, or they wouldn't be making these laws.
Arguing about the laws will do no good. The world is destined for fire either way, and all men are destined for hell: unless they believe in Jesus Christ.
Why not all 3? Prayer-Share-and be a Bear. Grrrrrrr.
 

Apostol2013

Senior Member
Jan 27, 2013
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#35
Should we obey governments that are bad?

Romans 13:1 says, "Let every person be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God." If this is so, what about the bad governments like the Nazis or the communist regimes where they killed millions? If God is the one who sets up governments, are we supposed to obey those bad governments?

The answer is no.

We are to obey governments unless they violate Scripture. Acts 5:29 says, "We must obey God rather than men." Whenever a government violates biblical teaching, Christians are obligated to disobey that government. For example, if a government were to declare that we should kill all Asians, or immigrants, or people with Down's syndrome, we should disobey. Governments are run by people and often become corrupt. Furthermore, the Bible never tells us to obey governments in contradiction to the revealed word of God.

In the Old Testament, God sent the Israelites to destroy different nations. Technically speaking, we could say that God set up those various governmental systems that he told the Israelites to destroy. But when systems become ungodly and anti-Christian, they are no longer properly representing God and should not be obeyed.

Are we seeing a conflict or a contradiction? Not at all. Let's take, for example, Exodus 20, where we see two commandments: obey your parents and do not murder. We can see that our parents are the authorities above us, even as governments are, and we should obey them. But, what should we do it our parents tell us to murder someone? Should we obey? Of course not. Obedience to our parents is only proper when it's consistent with the rest of the Scriptures. Likewise, submission to the governmental systems is only proper when it is consistent with Scripture.

Finally, let's look at Rom. 13:6-7, "For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor." Notice that Paul says that the rulers are servants of God. This is the context of the submission that is mentioned at the beginning of the chapter. If these rulers are no longer servants of God, and if they contradict Scripture, they are not to be obeyed.
 
Sep 14, 2013
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#37
Ignoring the law because of faith? I'm sure when a Muslim does that it's got a certain name.

Be careful with this conversation.
 

loveme1

Senior Member
Oct 30, 2011
8,083
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#38
The behaviour of Daniel comes to mind.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
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#39
My gut feeling (supported by the ongoing deception concerning OBCare) is that OBC is on a fast track to Auschwitz and feeble attempts by the House will easily be derailed by R&R Reidroad.
As an Illinois state senator, Barack Obama twice opposed legislation to define as “persons” babies who survive late-term abortions. Obama said in a speech on the Illinois Senate floor that he could not accept that babies wholly emerged from their mother’s wombs are “persons,” and thus deserving of equal protection under the Constitution’s 14th Amendment.
The American Spectator : The Fourth Trimester Abortion

Abstract
Abortion is largely accepted even for reasons that do not have anything to do with the fetus' health. By showing that (1) both fetuses and newborns do not have the same moral status as actual persons, (2) the fact that both are potential persons is morally irrelevant and (3) adoption is not always in the best interest of actual people, the authors argue that what we call ‘after-birth abortion’ (killing a newborn) should be permissible in all the cases where abortion is, including cases where the newborn is not disabled.
http://jme.bmj.com/content/early/2012/03/01/medethics-2011-100411.full

Although Bill Gates’ desire for death panels seem frighteningly out of tune with the majority of Americans, these thoughts are very much in the mainstream of bioethics. As historian and researcher Anton Chaitkin has documented in great detail, the death panel discussions in bioethics relate directly to a very disturbing history, one that ties people like Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel–brother of former White House chief of staff and current mayor of Chicago, Rahm Emmanuel–to the ideology that incited some of the worst atrocities of the 20th century. In 2009, Chaitkin presented some of his research on the history of the bioethics euthanasia idea to a meeting of a federal council that was set up to propose funding priorities that would withdraw funding for health care procedures from the elderly.
The Corbett Report | Life and Death: Bioethics as crypto-eugenics
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,200
6,543
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#40
Ignoring the law because of faith? I'm sure when a Muslim does that it's got a certain name.

Be careful with this conversation.

Not sure about your comment.......it's a bit vague.......but: When man's law(s) directly contradict God's Law(s), we, as believers are to obey God's Law(s) are we not? There are so many examples in Scripture of His people doing just this.

Yes, we must be willing to accept the consequences that may befall us from man, however God will not forsake us in those times. Rather, He will "lift us up."

The comparison with radical Islamists doesn't apply in my opinion. Simply because ............ well, simply because.

How does one claim to be a disciple of Jesus, and then deny Him to obey man's law(s)? Don't see how that will work.