When does the rapture occur?

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A

Abiding

Guest
#61
#61
Sir GRA,

Hey i spose i was just being defensive. But heres my theory good or bad.
And it wasnt my first or even 10th theory either.

We have the Old Testament Prophets, we have Revelation, Matt 24, Jesus words(He was a Prophet) etc.
The new Testament Apostles were given deeper insite in many ways. Paul is the greatest one but not the
only one. We also have Peter, Jude, Acts etc.

Ive heard opposing views to 1 cor 15. My way to test is always to find many opposing views before
pulling the trigger and going with something, and even then my feet dont go into concrete.

But Paul would not have said anything misleading. Although it may not completely cover it all.
Its totally clear on the order of both the resurrection and things that must happen before Jesus
gathers us. It tells us when the "end" will be. Not in total detail but a rough sketch, a base.

The reason i cant take Revelation as a base, is that who it was written to were grown up having heard
both prophetic language and understood alot of the book. I have to reach into the Old testament for help.
And for sure what Jesus and the Apostles said.

Matt 24 the same. Paul expanded on that just as Jesus said the Apostles would. But Matt 24 has little
to explain the second coming unless you consider it as a duel prophecy.

Here was my point except it or not i rarely see, if ever 1 Cor 15 used for the echatological theme it has.
Maybe one of the best also.

And quit pointing out my typos:p
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#62
#62
nathan3 said:
Christ is coming her to establish His kingdom on earth , why would He have the need to take anyone anywhere, when all the scriptures state, He is coming here? .

After all that, there are still scriptures that need to be read and taught, that clearly teach, there is no such thing as rapture, and Christ never taught it. No one did.

The word is not even in the Bible, nether is the thought... Why is it so hard to follow the subject of what is being read?
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Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#63
#63
Abiding said:
Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.
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His kingdom was of heaven at the time He stated that,Now, He is at the right hand of God, and when He returns, this is His world also.. When He returns this world is His to do with as we wants. Christ was on a mission, God sent Him. So He would not stop that, but if He wanted to He could have called down thousands of angels and destroyed everyone there. But He stood on The Father's business.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#64
#64
Blain said:
Actually the rapture itself is taught in the bible, the word rapture is just mans name for the event but it is very real my friend as you will soon see
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The scriptures don't show rapture. You need to stretch the scriptures to fit it. and it will not fit, Unless you ignore all the subject matter those verses are used in.
 
Radius

Radius

Senior Member
#65
Feb 11, 2013
1,138
180
63
#65
nathan3 said:
The scriptures don't show rapture. You need to stretch the scriptures to fit it. and it will not fit, Unless you ignore all the subject matter those verses are used in.
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So are you saying Christians will have to suffer through the Great Tribulation and the 7 Bowl Judgment and be martyred?
 
G

GRA

Guest
#66
#66
Radius said:
So are you saying Christians will have to suffer through the Great Tribulation and the 7 Bowl Judgment and be martyred?
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'suffer tribulation' and 'be martyred' - YES
'suffer wrath of God' (7 vials) - NO

The scriptures do show rapture - according to the "minimum" definition (only 'who' and 'what'). See 1 Corinthians 15:52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

:)
 
A

Abiding

Guest
#67
#67
nathan3 said:
His kingdom was of heaven at the time He stated that,Now, He is at the right hand of God, and when He returns, this is His world also.. When He returns this world is His to do with as we wants. Christ was on a mission, God sent Him. So He would not stop that, but if He wanted to He could have called down thousands of angels and destroyed everyone there. But He stood on The Father's business.
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Thats not what it says
Colossians 1:13


13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love,

1 cor 15:even so in Christ all shall be made alive. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ’s at His coming. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father,

So where did you say the Kingdom was? And where is He taking it?


 
E

Elin

Banned
#68
Jan 19, 2013
11,909
141
0
#68
nathan3 said:
The scriptures don't show rapture. You need to stretch the scriptures to fit it. and it will not fit, Unless you ignore all the subject matter those verses are used in.
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peacefulbeliever said:
Just a side note: The Greek word for caught up is harpazo meaning to seize, carry off, to snatch out and away.

The Latin from the Vulgate is rapio with the same meaning. Rapio would be where the word "rapture" comes from.
Also, there is a bird - raptor - that snatches away it's prey . . .

:)
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Greek------>Latin--->English

harpazo--->rapio--->rapture

1Th 4:16-17 - "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of he archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first (i.e., before the rapture).
After that, we who are still alive and who are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

The only "stretching to fit" and "ignoring the subject matter those verse are used in" is your own.

It couldn't be any plainer.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#69
#69
Elin said:


Greek------>Latin--->English

harpazo--->rapio--->rapture

1Th 4:16-17 - "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of he archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first (i.e., before the rapture).
After that, we who are still alive and who are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

The only "stretching to fit" and "ignoring the subject matter those verse are used in" is your own.

It couldn't be any plainer.
Click to expand...
your not going to get a subject in that verse. the subject starts in verse 13..... Not 16..... Paul's 2nd Letter has to be listened to also... What people are doing with rapture, is try, to build something from nothing.
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#70
#70
Radius said:
So are you saying Christians will have to suffer through the Great Tribulation and the 7 Bowl Judgment and be martyred?
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you dont even know what the tribulation is all about. or is happening. Christ told you..... What suffering are you talking about ?????......
 
J

jgrig2

Guest
#71
#71
I do not believe Scripture teaches Jesus will return two more times. The Rapture and the second coming are clearly one single event. It makes no sense for dispensationalists to try to have an odd 7 year tribulation thing from scripture. Historically those who have affirmed a literal 1000 year millenial reign have agreed that the Return of Jesus is imminent, and there will be a judgement then followed by a final judgment at the end with the Resurrection.
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#72
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#72
Elin said:


Greek------>Latin--->English

harpazo--->rapio--->rapture

1Th 4:16-17 - "For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of he archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first (i.e., before the rapture).
After that, we who are still alive and who are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air."

The only "stretching to fit" and "ignoring the subject matter those verse are used in" is your own.

It couldn't be any plainer.
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Excuse me . . .is the above addressed to me? I believe in the rapture. . As in what I posted it was just like an FYI thing. . .
Just a side note: The Greek word for caught up is harpazo meaning to seize, carry off, to snatch out and away.

The Latin from the Vulgate is rapio with the same meaning. Rapio would be where the word "rapture" comes from.
Also, there is a bird - raptor - that snatches away it's prey . . .
Click to expand...
:)
 
N

nathan3

Guest
#73
#73
reading is a lost art. :(
 
G

GRA

Guest
#74
#74
nathan3 said:
reading is a lost art. :(
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And, so is writing... And, there be precious few on here (relatively speaking) who seem to know how to do it properly... :eek:

OUCH! :p

( If you feel insulted by this - then, surely, you are not one of those 'few'... ) ;)

EDIT: ( ...because you "know it" subconsciously. )

:)
 
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N

nathan3

Guest
#75
#75
GRA said:
And, so is writing... And, there be precious few on here (relatively speaking) who seem to know how to do it properly... :eek:

OUCH! :p

( If you feel insulted by this - then, surely, you are not one of those 'few'... ) ;)

EDIT: ( ...because you "know it" subconsciously. )

:)
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well no ones perfect. I cant write very well, i cant even read that well... But. I can at least follow a subject.....OOOO ! :)
 
G

GRA

Guest
#76
#76
nathan3 said:
your not going to get a subject in that verse. the subject starts in verse 13..... Not 16..... Paul's 2nd Letter has to be listened to also... What people are doing with rapture, is try, to build something from nothing.
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[SUP]13[/SUP] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. [SUP]14[/SUP] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[SUP]15[/SUP] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [SUP]16[/SUP] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [SUP]17[/SUP] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [SUP]18[/SUP] Wherefore comfort one another with these words. ~ 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

I see the phrases 'them which are asleep' and 'them also which sleep in Jesus' as generally being 'identity' based descriptions - and refer to those who have "died in Christ" - whose souls God will 'bring with him' when He comes. So then, they apply to the 'soul and spirit' (which is "the real person").

I see the phrase 'the dead in Christ' as 'soul and spirit' - in terms of 'identity' - but the physical body also - because of the phrase "shall rise first", which specifically implies the "coming to life" of the physical body.

By the most simple definition, 'rapture' refers to the "catching up" of those whose bodies have been transformed - and rests in the phrase highlighted in red.

:)
 
G

GRA

Guest
#77
#77
nathan3 said:
well no ones perfect. I cant write very well, i cant even read that well... But. I can at least follow a subject.....OOOO ! :)
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It is true that none of us are perfect... :eek:

It is also true that my previous post was not directed at you specifically.

Do you see - how that, without using your name - my previous post was aimed "at the crowd" (at large) and not at you specifically - even after having made reference to something you said? - yet, this post is "talking to you" specifically?

all:

Remember: A quote is a quote is a quote... <----- Click

I am not trying to criticize anyone - just trying to get you thinking... ;)

:)
 
peacefulbeliever

peacefulbeliever

Senior Member
#79
Feb 21, 2012
3,794
199
63
#79
GRA said:
It is true that none of us are perfect... :eek:

It is also true that my previous post was not directed at you specifically.

Do you see - how that, without using your name - my previous post was aimed "at the crowd" (at large) and not at you specifically - even after having made reference to something you said? - yet, this post is "talking to you" specifically?

all:

Remember: A quote is a quote is a quote... <----- Click

I am not trying to criticize anyone - just trying to get you thinking... ;)

:)
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Geez. . .I made a mistake. . .Give me a break,lol. . .:)
 
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