Where The Holy Spirit Will Not Be

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Dec 21, 2012
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#1
For those that hear & for the little ones that He may prune in the knowledge of Him:

How will we know the Holy Spirit personally?

John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

How will we know that the spirit is NOT the Holy Spirit?

1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world....4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

The Holy Spirit will not be giving the sensation of being around you or felt outside of you. What would be the point other than to take your eyes off of and away from seeking the face of our Lord Jesus Christ in worship to sensational signs in the flesh?

The Holy Spirit has no need to be felt in the place of worship. Only seducing spirits would want to draw believers attention to themselves & thus away from the Son in worship from honouring the Son.

Remember this self examination in regards to the faith in Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Most often misuse of scripture is Matthew 18:20, but if a believer reads verse 19 with verse 20, they would realize that the Son of God was referring to Himself in being the Mediator between God and man.

Matthew 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

The Son of God is talking here and so when He says "I", then He is referring to Himself. Jesus had always referrred to the Holy Spirit as seperate from Himself by referring to the Spirit as "he" or "him" and not "I" or "me".

Yes: God the Father, the Son of God, & the Holy Spirit are One, but Jesus is making a promise here in regards to His future role as our only Mediator between God and man.

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Only the Son of Man Whom is also the Son of God can be the only Mediator between us. The risen Saviour is our only Mediator out of this Triune God.

The phrase "in the midst of them" is rendered from the Greek text "mesos" as it is used in context of those two verses is meaning inbetween us & God.

This"among them" which is not aligning with the message of those two verses is how believers are using the phrase "in the midst them" today in that verse as implying a presence outside of us in the worship place.

So regardless of your "good feeling" experience, that was not the Holy Spirit. That was seducing spirits at work in seducing you to seek after them for that sensation in the flesh again.

Consider this: to say that it was the Holy Spirit that you had felt outside of you, then you have made the line of discernment in 1 John 4:4 of "greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world" null & void of meaning.

There would be no point for Jesus informing us in how we would know the Holy Spirit personally as being in us.

The real indwelling Holy Spirit would always lead believers to honour the Son in worship by testifying of the Son in seeking His glory.

Only seducing spirits will be at work to take your eyes off of the Son in worship in seeking that presence again to feel and to worship them in with their visiations of signs and lying wonders, therefore the Holy Spirit has no reason to be oustide of you where the spirits of the antichrist dwell otherwise, how then can anyone test any spirits to KNOW the Holy Spirit from seducing spirits which are in the world?

What about Pentecost?

Read what it actually says and don't ignore the rest of scripture in favour of what you are reading into it just because you want to believe that what you felt was from God.

Acts 2:2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

A sound of a rushing mighty wind filled the place: that is not the same thing as saying the Holy Spirit came and filled the place. BIG DIFFERENCE! The Holy Spirit filled the believers: not the place where they were meeting. It was the sound of a rushing mighty wind that filled the place.

Errant believers contend that you can't put God in a box, but by ignoring that line of discernment, then no one can test the spirits if the Holy Spirit would manifest outside of the believers to be felt in the worship place, but the fact that we can test the spirits MEAN that the Holy Spirit WILL NOT BE FELT outside of us for us to be seeking after.

1 Chronicles 16:11Seek the Lord and his strength, seek his face continually.

Psalm 27:8When thou saidst, Seek ye my face; my heart said unto thee, Thy face, Lord, will I seek.

Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

There is no other way to honour God the Father other than by honouring the Son which is what the indwelling Holy Spirit is leading us to do. So when supernatural phenomenons occur, do not believe every spirit, but test them:

If you are feeling them outside of you or coming over you, even to induce speaking in tongues that comes with no interpretation? Then that is not the Holy Spirit when He is already within you leading you to keep the spotlight on the Son to glorify the Son.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me:

John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

So when supernatural phenomeon occurs in the worship place with visitations of signs & lying wonders, then that is not the Holy Spirit. He would never steal the spotlight away from the Son nor share in that spotlight for He will not speak of Himself in order to seek to glorify the Son & those led by the Spirit of God will do the very same thing.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: 27 And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.

Those that hear will know the importance of not believing every spirit and why the Holy Spirit will not be manifesting to be felt outside of us when the real indwelling Holy Spirit is leading us to testify of the Son to glorify the Son in honouring God the Father.

With the Holy Spirit within us, no believer can get any closer to God than that.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: 28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? 20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

No manifestation of the real indwelling Holy Spirit will bring any other report than this below.

1 Corinthians 14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

To say otherwise is to testify of the spirit of the antichrist which is in the world.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

So when any believer confess that spirit coming in the worship place presently thus to the meaning of "is come", that is the spirit of the antichrist that is in the world.

Many believers & educated scolars have misread 1 John 4:2 as meaning a denial of Jesus ever having come in the flesh and thus alluding to some false teaching in the early church's past which did occur, but John was not talking about that false teaching. John was instructing us in how to test the spirits so when you read 1 John 4:2,

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christis come in the flesh is of God:

... it is the same thing as saying this below.

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

How important is this issue?

2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. 8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

There can be no rationalization nor blurring of this line of discernment as to where the Holy Spirit will be and where the Holy Spirit will not be so that we can test the spirits, and keep the faith in Jesus Christ which is the good fight. May the Good Shepherd help us to keep our eyes on Him to be found abiding in Him when the Bridegroom comes, and may the Good Shepherd restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake. Amen.
 
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kenisyes

Guest
#2
1. The Holy Spirit will not be giving the sensation of being around you or felt outside of you. What would be the point other than to take your eyes off of and away from seeking the face of our Lord Jesus Christ in worship to sensational signs in the flesh?

The Holy Spirit has no need to be felt in the place of worship. Only seducing spirits would want to draw believers attention to themselves & thus away from the Son in worship from honouring the Son.


2. Consider this: to say that it was the Holy Spirit that you had felt outside of you, then you have made the line of discernment in 1 John 4:4 of "greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world" null & void of meaning.


3. Only seducing spirits will be at work to take your eyes off of the Son in worship in seeking that presence again to feel and to worship them in with their visiations of signs and lying wonders, therefore the Holy Spirit has no reason to be oustide of you where the spirits of the antichrist dwell otherwise, how then can anyone test any spirits to KNOW the Holy Spirit from seducing spirits which are in the world?

4. Errant believers contend that you can't put God in a box, but by ignoring that line of discernment, then no one can test the spirits if the Holy Spirit would manifest outside of the believers to be felt in the worship place, but the fact that we can test the spirits MEAN that the Holy Spirit WILL NOT BE FELT outside of us for us to be seeking after.


5. So when supernatural phenomeon occurs in the worship place with visitations of signs & lying wonders, then that is not the Holy Spirit. He would never steal the spotlight away from the Son nor share in that spotlight for He will not speak of Himself in order to seek to glorify the Son & those led by the Spirit of God will do the very same thing.


6. With the Holy Spirit within us, no believer can get any closer to God than that.
1. So the real test of authentic worship is I don't feel anything? Because only a bad spirit would ever want you to feel happy praising God?

2. So since God is bigger than me, He would never come down to my level?

3. So God always avoids wherever evil spirits are, so we don't confuse who is who?

4. I hope you and God are happy in your box.

5. So God would never do a miracle, because it might confuse you?

6. So I should be married and never look at my spouse, never enjoy any time with my spouse? All I should do is be grateful for the marriage license and the the kids who will inherit my name, and all the work I do to pay the bills? That's how you have Jesus treating His bride.

What has so turned you against the love of God being expressed in the physical, as well as in the spiritual? THREE bear witness, and the THREE are one. The Holy Spirit is God, you know.

I'm sorry, but I watched everything you are condemning by this whole evening's series of posts create a whole new system of churches and a new generation of young people. Without it, there would be almost no one in church today and no churches with any power to reach three consecutive alienated generations. If you have seen so many counterfeits, we can credit the power of satan for making them, but there are far more genuine believers who pray in tongues and enjoy God from time to time when they worship Him. Condemn the counterfeits if you like, but don't confuse them with the fire-tried works of God.
 
P

Powemm

Guest
#3
God Is triune in nature
God the Father
God the Son
God the holy Spirit ...

We either believe God or don't
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#4
1. So the real test of authentic worship is I don't feel anything? Because only a bad spirit would ever want you to feel happy praising God?
What purpose would the Holy Spirit have for making a believer feel happy or joyful when he really isn't? What would the end result of that be other than to take your eyes off of the Son in fellowship & worship to seek that again?

What is the purpose of seducing spirits other than to lure you away from relating to God the Father through the Son, as in "instead of Christ" which is what the antichrist means as applied in scripture?

2. So since God is bigger than me, He would never come down to my level?
Jesus did that already as testified in Philippians 2:5-11 of which our minds should be so set on the Son.

And with Him dwelling within us: you can't get any closer to Him than that other than by grwoing in the knowledge of the Son so that your love may abound more and more.

3. So God always avoids wherever evil spirits are, so we don't confuse who is who?
No. Jesus told us how we would know the Holy Spirit personally as dwelling within us. John 14:16-17 The apostle John drew the line in the sand as to where the spirit of the antichrists dwells... outside of us as in the world. Now why would the Holy Spirit be playing around out there for and how can any believer test the spirits if He really is fooling around out there? Would there not be a danger of sinning against the Holy Spirit? Thus no one would dare test the spirits and just go with the flow..... and thus the falling away of the faith has begun with no one willing to stop it because we void that truth as to where the Holy Spirit will be for us to know the difference between Him and the spirit of the antichrist.

4. I hope you and God are happy in your box.
I am thankful for His promise & content thanks to the Son, Jesus Christ.

5. So God would never do a miracle, because it might confuse you?
That all depends what the miracle is doing and thus leading believers to do.. take their eyes off of the Son to the "spirit" to seek more of that miracle or because of the miracle, they seek the Son to give thanks to the Father in worship.

6. So I should be married and never look at my spouse, never enjoy any time with my spouse? All I should do is be grateful for the marriage license and the the kids who will inherit my name, and all the work I do to pay the bills? That's how you have Jesus treating His bride.
The Son, Jesus Christ is the Bridegroom. Would you like it if your bride was spending intimate time with a stranger in relating to you?

What has so turned you against the love of God being expressed in the physical, as well as in the spiritual? THREE bear witness, and the THREE are one. The Holy Spirit is God, you know.
The term seducing spirist and what the spirit of the antichrist means... leading you away from the Son, as in instead of Christ. They do not have to remove Him entirely as that would be broadening the way in the worship place, but as long as they get their moment of fame while the Son takes to the limelight, the better insult they are making believers committing to God the Father.

You can only honour the Father by honouring the Son. That is how every believer will be judged by so take heed: John 5:22-23 Makes no mistake: The Father is glorified only through the Son: John 13:31-32 This is to be our mind in Christ in worship Philippaisn2:5-11 and in songs: Colossians 3:16-17 and in fellowship 1 Corinthians 2:2

I'm sorry, but I watched everything you are condemning by this whole evening's series of posts create a whole new system of churches and a new generation of young people. Without it, there would be almost no one in church today and no churches with any power to reach three consecutive alienated generations. If you have seen so many counterfeits, we can credit the power of satan for making them, but there are far more genuine believers who pray in tongues and enjoy God from time to time when they worship Him. Condemn the counterfeits if you like, but don't confuse them with the fire-tried works of God.
From the Nicene creed to the here & now, John testified that the spirit of the antichrist was already in the world and thus consequently, they have been infesting the churches throughout the centuries when they included the Holy Spirit in the spotlight to be honoured and worshipped with the Father & the Son, and yet the role of the Holy Spirit in the scriptures testifies that He would never do that in leading believers to speak of Himself in seeking the glory of the Holy Spirit. The real indwelling Holy Spirit would lead believers to testify of the Son in seeking His glory. John 15:26-27 & John 16:13-14

The falling away from the faith has been present intermittently throughout the times of the Gentiles, but has gotten to be a dominant iniquity here in these latter days where faith is hard to find which is indicative of the Bridegroom coming soon.

So I am not interested in starting a new church, but calling wayward believers to go before that throne of grace for help in discerning their standing with the Lord Jesus Christ to help return them to their first love in getting ready before He comes.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#5
Where The Holy Spirit Will Not Be


James 3
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

Galatians 5
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[SUP][c][/SUP] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, revelries, and the like;

EVIDENCES that the HOLY SPIRIT is present:


Galatians 5
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

James 3
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#6
What purpose would the Holy Spirit have for making a believer feel happy or joyful when he really isn't?
to remind them of the peace, joy and rest that will be theirs when they are in New Jeresalem. to remind them that is world is temporal and fleeting and that eternity with God will be a place without tears.

what's wrong if God places His happiness and joy in a person's heart?
 
K

kenisyes

Guest
#7
So I am not interested in starting a new church, but calling wayward believers to go before that throne of grace for help in discerning their standing with the Lord Jesus Christ to help return them to their first love in getting ready before He comes.
You are assuming 1. believers are never happy, 2. knowledge is the only path to God 3. the Holy Spirit only lives in believers and 4. promise without visible fulfillment is all God wants to give. These sound like the statements of a person who has been hurt emotionally. You sound heart-broken in a love affair. God not only loves you, He's still passionately in love with you.

Your arguments in all four or five of these threads amount to, you have seen some bad stuff called the Holy Spirit, so to play it safe, you are going to assume that anything you are not sure of involving the name "Holy Spirit" is wrong for you...(up til here, I can pray for you and know God will fix it. You will heal from your wounds, and He will add to your life eventually. But then you go on)...and everybody else. That's why I spend so many hours every Sunday getting back to you.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
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#8
Maybe just maybe we are to have emotion for the one we love?

Psalm 27

[SUP]4 [/SUP]One thing I ask from the Lord,
this only do I seek:
that I may dwell in the house of the Lord
all the days of my life,
to gaze on the beauty of the Lord
and to seek him in his temple.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For in the day of trouble
he will keep me safe in his dwelling;
he will hide me in the shelter of his sacred tent
and set me high upon a rock.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Then my head will be exalted
above the enemies who surround me;
at his sacred tent I will sacrifice with shouts of joy;
I will sing and make music to the Lord.

Psalm 95

Come, let us sing for joy to the Lord;
let us shout aloud to the Rock of our salvation.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Let us come before him with thanksgiving
and extol him with music and song.


[SUP]3 [/SUP]For the Lord is the great God,
the great King above all gods.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]In his hand are the depths of the earth,
and the mountain peaks belong to him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]The sea is his, for he made it,
and his hands formed the dry land.


[SUP]6 [/SUP]Come, let us bow down in worship,
let us kneel before the Lord our Maker;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]for he is our God
and we are the people of his pasture,
the flock under his care.


Psalm 98

[SUP]1 [/SUP]Sing to the Lord a new song,
for he has done marvelous things;
his right hand and his holy arm
have worked salvation for him.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]The Lord has made his salvation known
and revealed his righteousness to the nations.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]He has remembered his love
and his faithfulness to Israel;
all the ends of the earth have seen
the salvation of our God.


[SUP]4 [/SUP]Shout for joy to the Lord, all the earth,
burst into jubilant song with music;
[SUP]5 [/SUP]make music to the Lord with the harp,
with the harp and the sound of singing,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]with trumpets and the blast of the ram
 
Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
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#9
Where The Holy Spirit Will Not Be


James 3
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But if you have bitter envy and self-seeking in your hearts, do not boast and lie against the truth. [SUP]15 [/SUP]This wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where envy and self-seeking exist, confusion and every evil thing are there.

Galatians 5
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,[SUP][c][/SUP] fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, [SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, [SUP]21 [/SUP]envy, murders,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, revelries, and the like;
Actually that is wrong to apply that to where the Holy Spirit will not be because He will always be abiding in us, but because He is dwelling within us, we should not sow to the works of the flesh.

Ephesians 4:And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So how will we know the Holy Spirit from the spirit of the antichrist?

1 John 4:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That is why I say where the Holy Spirit will not be.

EVIDENCES that the HOLY SPIRIT is present:

Galatians 5
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

James 3
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, willing to yield, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality and without hypocrisy.
The question is how will we know Him personally?

John 14:[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

That is why I say where the Holy Spirit will not be... outside of us where the spirit of the antichrist dwell. There is no way to know that it is the Holy Spirit outside of us, and yet Jesus plainly stated how we will know the Holy Spirit and that is by Him dwelling within us.

To remove that line of discernment is to remove the testing of the spirits.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#10
you can still have internal thoughts and influences that are caused by ones sinful flesh. Testing should go beyond if the inspiration is internal or external.

There is stories in the BIBLE where angels spoke with the prophets externally. Revelation has John speaking with an angel externally that is NOT the Holy Spirit.

therefore just saying it is internal or external does not show you that the Spirit is from God or not.

Yes the HOLY Spirit will always be with you but HE will not lead you into bitter envy, self serving actions, adultery, anger/outbursts of wrath, fornication, lewdness, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, heresies, murder, etc.

If you speak of discernment than one must discern what the HOLY SPIRIT wants to cultivate in your mind and heart and what is of the Flesh or the world or the unclean spirits that would lead you away from walking with the Holy Spirit and bearing the fruits therein of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness and self control.

besides most people don't see the whispers of demons as external but just thoughts heard in their mind that sometimes plant tares in their hearts.

added to the fact you do not consider you WHOLE audience. what if there are some who have not Jesus as their savior and do not have the Holy Spirit but an unclean spirit?

for them Jesus would be standing at the door of their heart knocking as it says in Revelation.
 
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Dec 21, 2012
2,901
39
0
#11
you can still have internal thoughts and influences that are caused by ones sinful flesh. Testing should go beyond if the inspiration is internal or external.

There is stories in the BIBLE where angels spoke with the prophets externally. Revelation has John speaking with an angel externally that is NOT the Holy Spirit.
besides most people don't see the whispers of demons as external but just thoughts heard in their mind that sometimes plant tares in their hearts.
That is why scripture is needed to test every new message or new revelation, and to cast down every though & imagination that goes against the knowledge of God.

therefore just saying it is internal or external does not show you that the Spirit is from God or not.
Then 1 John 4:4 has been made void and of no effect for testing the spirits. You might as well cut it out of the Bible along with John 14:17 about knowing Him as dwelling within us. What would be the point if He is out there putting on a show of manifesting sensations in the flesh?

If we are to prove all things & abtsain from all appearances of evil, then the Holy Spirit will not be after the fashion of a ghost conjured up in a room where a seyance is being performed.

added to the fact you do not consider you WHOLE audience. what if there are some who have not Jesus as their savior and do not have the Holy Spirit but an unclean spirit?

for them Jesus would be standing at the door of their heart knocking as it says in Revelation.
The Holy Spirit has no need to be in the worship place. If any manifestation was to occur, it will bring about only this good report.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]24 [/SUP]But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: [SUP]25 [/SUP]And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

There will be no report that will testify of God being in a place. We are warned to stay away from such places.

Most believers credit the Holy Spirit as drawing men unto the Son, but scripture does not support that.

John 6:[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. [SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So the Holy Spirit does not need to be felt in the worship place, because He is in us in reaching the sinners.

John 16:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Jesus was testifying of the Holy Spirit in believers testifying of the Good News to sinners.

Now note how the Holy Spirit will speak for which the credit goes to the Father.

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Matthew 10:[SUP]19 [/SUP]But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So the Holy Spirit is sent only when the sinners believe in Jesus Christ just as He had promised. He will not be sent to be manifesting parlour tricks to get them to believe when it is by hearing the gospel message is how anyone can believe.

Romans 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! [SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
 
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#12
*Sigh* It's always the same. Someone comes out of a snake handling or headbanging or gold dusting or jibber jabbering place called a church, and immediately they are professionals at knowing the work of the Holy Ghost. They immediately have all knowledge that the Holy Spirit won't let you feel anything, there are no gifts anymore to edify the body, that basically the Holy Ghost don't do nothin' no more because we have a complete word! I just want to ask those people this one question: if you were gullible enough to believe you were saved when you were in one of those cults, how do you know that you're even saved right now?
True Spirit filled believers know that just as Jesus Christ is always the same, so is the Father, and so is the Holy Spirit. They cannot be in full agreement with one another unless they are all stay the same. If the Holy Spirit doesn't work the same today as he did in the early church, then God is a liar, because he said his spirit would be poured out upon all believers.
By the way, yes you can feel the Spirit of God. I've known of sinners that felt His presence and left the building. every time the Holy Spirit convicts (convinces) us of sin, or of the truth, we feel it! When God's people get into true worship, God's presence is felt so powerfully that even the hardest of hearts are melted.
Never judge the actions of the Holy Spirit until you have personally knowingly experienced Him! Otherwise, you may find yourself teeter tottering on the edge of blasphemy.
 
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Abiding

Guest
#13
You can quench Him and you can grieve Him...but a little skepticism isnt tottering on the edge of blasphemy.
But i agree about melting the heart....i need that all the time. And how can you keep feelings and emotions
out of it? You cant. They are part of us.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#14
*Sigh* It's always the same. Someone comes out of a snake handling or headbanging or gold dusting or jibber jabbering place called a church, and immediately they are professionals at knowing the work of the Holy Ghost.
1 John 4:1Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I am pointing out that believers are too quick to believe every spirit as being of God, and how we test them is by the scripture.

They immediately have all knowledge that the Holy Spirit won't let you feel anything,
How can we discern from seducing spirits if the Holy Spirit manifests feelings that can be the same as these seductions by these spirits?

there are no gifts anymore to edify the body, that basically the Holy Ghost don't do nothin' no more because we have a complete word!
The gift of prophesy was exalted over all spiritual gift to such a point that if all prophesy, this good report would come.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]24 [/SUP]But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: [SUP]25 [/SUP]And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

But if all spoke in tongues, the person coming in would think them all mad.

It is troubling to see such defense of tongues which comes with no interpetation as something to be exhorted to seek after when that was not the exhortation given.
I just want to ask those people this one question: if you were gullible enough to believe you were saved when you were in one of those cults, how do you know that you're even saved right now?
I have not raised the topic of judging believers that practise tongues without interpreation as not being saved, because you are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ, but it was prophesied that some will depart from faith and give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils for which is the cause for alarm in discerning the supernatural tongues.

There is a falling away from the faith for which will signal the end of the times of teh Gentiles when God will have to judge His House first to restore the wayward to the path of righteousness for His name's sake by leaving them behind from the pre tribulational rapture event when the Bridegroom comes for the bride.

True Spirit filled believers know that just as Jesus Christ is always the same, so is the Father, and so is the Holy Spirit. They cannot be in full agreement with one another unless they are all stay the same. If the Holy Spirit doesn't work the same today as he did in the early church, then God is a liar, because he said his spirit would be poured out upon all believers.
But the tongues without interpretation is not the manifestation of the Spirit that was manifested in the early church.

By the way, yes you can feel the Spirit of God. I've known of sinners that felt His presence and left the building. every time the Holy Spirit convicts (convinces) us of sin, or of the truth, we feel it!
If you are referring to conviction by way of the spoken word, then yes, but that is not the same thing as feeling a supernatural presence in the worship place.

When God's people get into true worship, God's presence is felt so powerfully that even the hardest of hearts are melted.
Your words do testify of that which we are to beware of, because God is not manfesting anything for anyone to report that they feel God in that place of worship. That is not a good report at all.

Believers misread John's line of discernment in testing the spirits because he was not talking about anyone teaching that Christ has never come in the flesh, but John was showing how to test the spirits by anyone saying that the Spirit of Chrost was here in the worship place. The use of the term "is come" means presently, not in past tense. See how it leads into drawing that distinction between the spirit of the antichrist as being in the world as not of Him that dwells within us.

1 John 4:[SUP]3 [/SUP]And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That line of iscernment in verse 3 & 4 is what Paul was here for examining ourselves in the faith below.

2 Corinthians 13:[SUP]5 [/SUP]Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

So yes: in keeping the faith which is the good fight, we can know which is the spirit of the antichrist because it is in the world from the real Holy Spirit because He dwells within us.

Never judge the actions of the Holy Spirit until you have personally knowingly experienced Him! Otherwise, you may find yourself teeter tottering on the edge of blasphemy.
We are to not believe every spirit but test them because there are seducing spirits in the world.

1 Timothy 4:1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; [SUP]2 [/SUP]Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

John 14:[SUP]16 [/SUP]And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

It is not written that we will know the Holy Spirit after these signs. Flopping all over the floor like a fish out of the water is liable to get the believer pegged as insane, and these be the ones that seek to receive the "Holy Spirit" again & again & again after a sign as there are various sensational signs in the flesh being given.

It is written that we will know the Holy Spirit as being in us. What would be the point of saying that as a matter of fact unless it is for us to be able to test the spirits as well as keep the faith that is in Jesus Christ?
 
A

AtonedFor

Guest
#15

Where He will NOT be? ... Time for a new thread.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#16

Where He will NOT be? ... Time for a new thread.
That is the thread here. Note the title.

So that believers can test the spirits and know the difference between the spirit of the antichrist which is IN the world and the real indwelling Holy Spirit that we can know because He is IN us.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#17
That is why scripture is needed to test every new message or new revelation, and to cast down every though & imagination that goes against the knowledge of God.



Then 1 John 4:4 has been made void and of no effect for testing the spirits. You might as well cut it out of the Bible along with John 14:17 about knowing Him as dwelling within us. What would be the point if He is out there putting on a show of manifesting sensations in the flesh?

If we are to prove all things & abtsain from all appearances of evil, then the Holy Spirit will not be after the fashion of a ghost conjured up in a room where a seyance is being performed.
seances are forbidden in the Bible. God had some strong words to say about King Saul asking a medium to call forth Samuel's ghost. therefore the whole ghost conjuring thing would not be an outward manifestation of the Holy Spirit...

The Holy Spirit has no need to be in the worship place. If any manifestation was to occur, it will bring about only this good report.

1 Corinthians 14:[SUP]24 [/SUP]But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: [SUP]25 [/SUP]And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.

There will be no report that will testify of God being in a place. We are warned to stay away from such places.

Most believers credit the Holy Spirit as drawing men unto the Son, but scripture does not support that.
so you are saying that the Father draws people to Jesus and not the Holy Spirit?

the Holy Spirit is needed every where because He guides His children.
John 6:[SUP]44 [/SUP]No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Matthew 11:[SUP]25 [/SUP]At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. [SUP]27 [/SUP]All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

So the Holy Spirit does not need to be felt in the worship place, because He is in us in reaching the sinners.
the Holy Spirit should be felt by everyone in the worship place because the Holy Spirit should be felt by born again Christians at ALL times in the life. Yes He is in us and wants us to reach the sinners but I'm still trying to see your point. i'll keep reading...

John 16:[SUP]7 [/SUP]Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]Of sin, because they believe not on me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Jesus was testifying of the Holy Spirit in believers testifying of the Good News to sinners.
true....lets see where you go with it...

Now note how the Holy Spirit will speak for which the credit goes to the Father.

John 16:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Matthew 10:[SUP]19 [/SUP]But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

So the Holy Spirit is sent only when the sinners believe in Jesus Christ just as He had promised. He will not be sent to be manifesting parlour tricks to get them to believe when it is by hearing the gospel message is how anyone can believe.
ok no parlour tricks, but you see that is MEN who do those tricks, not some external spirit but men possessed by unclean spirits.

Romans 10:[SUP]13 [/SUP]For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [SUP]14 [/SUP]How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? [SUP]15 [/SUP]And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! [SUP]16 [/SUP]But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
i get the feeling we are referring to two totally different things. must be a miscommunication going on some where.
 
Dec 21, 2012
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#18
seances are forbidden in the Bible. God had some strong words to say about King Saul asking a medium to call forth Samuel's ghost. therefore the whole ghost conjuring thing would not be an outward manifestation of the Holy Spirit...
Which is why the Holy Spirit would not be felt outside of us in the worship place where the spirit of the antichrist dwells.

so you are saying that the Father draws people to Jesus and not the Holy Spirit?
Correct because scripture specifically mentions the Father as doing so and plainly too.

The problem with some believers is that because the Three Re One, they attribute specific roles that are of the Father's and of the Son's as being the Holy Spirit's role too and that cannot be so, because the Father nor the Holy Spirit had died on the cross, but the Son of Man/Son of God did.

Just as there is only one Mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus, therefore the Father is not the Mediator and neither is the Holy Ghost.

So when scripture specified that the Father is the One that draws men unto the Son, as He is the One that reveals the Son as He is also the One that gave them unto the Son to keep, John 6:39, then let's testify what the scriptures says and not run away with how believers like to put the Holy Spirit in the spotlight and keep Him there as if the Father & the Son are in the limelights now.

the Holy Spirit is needed every where because He guides His children.
The Son, Jesus Christ, is the Good Shepherd as He guides us through the Holy Spirit within us so the Holy Spirit only needs to be within us, not outside of us playing parlour tricks ... touching someone here or there and taking their eyes off of seeking the face of the Son Whom we are to seek continuously in worship.

the Holy Spirit should be felt by everyone in the worship place because the Holy Spirit should be felt by born again Christians at ALL times in the life. Yes He is in us and wants us to reach the sinners but I'm still trying to see your point. i'll keep reading...
The spirit of the antichrist is in the world which is why the line of discernment in His words tests the spirits by "greater is He that is in us than he that is in the world" ( 1 John 4:3-4 )

true....lets see where you go with it...

ok no parlour tricks, but you see that is MEN who do those tricks, not some external spirit but men possessed by unclean spirits.
1 John 4:1 says to believers not to believe every spirit but test them as there is a prophesy in the latter days when some will depart from faith and give heed to seducing spirits & doctrines of devils. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 So the discernment here is that no doctrine of Christ is going to mimick the doctrines of devils of feeling a spirit in the place or speaking in tongues that does not come with interpretation but is just babbling nonsense.


i get the feeling we are referring to two totally different things. must be a miscommunication going on some where.
Keeping the faith is the good fight as Jesus Christ dwells in us ( 2 Corinthians 13:5) and so when a believer testify of the Spirit of Christ being in the worship place, then they have departed from faith by doing so, because that is the spirit of the antichrist. The Holy Spirit has no need to be in the worship place when He dwells within us. Only seducing spirits wishing to take our eyes off of the Son in worship would do that. The real indwelling Holy Spirit would keep the spotlight on the Son in worship so as to glorify the Son and by Him, glorify the Father as well. John 5:22-23 & John 13:31-32
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#19
When I first visited the Christian church up the hill from me when I was seven years old, I remember feeling something in the sanctuary that was good and pleasant. It wasn't the air-conditioning, either.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#20
Enow, if you're not feeling the presence of God in the church you attend, there are several reasons for that, and anyone of them will do it.