Which laws are and are not valid?

[Jeff_56]

just-me posted truth.

elin posted who knows what? no matter the pay grade, the words seem surgical, clinical, and soul-less.(like from a list of answers designed like a drop down menu for a call center phone specialist.) ..

it wouldn't matter so much, but elin keeps trying to refute those who post Scripture/Truth.... why? it doesn't help anyone .....

 

[Elin]

just-me posted truth.

Not according to the NT word of God written.

elin posted who knows what? no matter the pay grade, the words seem surgical, clinical, and soul-less.(like from a list of answers designed like a drop down menu for a call center phone specialist.) ..

Yes, it is simply NT truth without any human embellishment. . .probably showing signs of weariness at the unbelief which requires repeating it so many times.

it wouldn't matter so much, but elin keeps trying to refute those who post Scripture/Truth....

I've seen no Scripture truth which addresses what I post.

All I've seen is assertion of fallacious hermeneutics ignoring context (e.g., Heb 8:13)
for the sake of their false doctrine.

why? it doesn't help anyone .....

Then it's not meant for you. . .who can speak only for himself.

 

[Jeff_56]

yeah, right..... NOT! ... sorry, doesn't hold water.....
or more directly, if the NT is different to you than to others, which it has appeared to be the case for months now,
then the source of your teaching, who taught you, is the source of your troubles/differences. not the people here who know and post the truth.

a month ago I noted that the source of your differences/ troubles is way to 'deep' to go into here on this forum , for lack of time and space, and (mostly maybe) because you won't. it may be a very long and intertwined investigation, literally may take decades to unravel (for which yahweh is ready and able and has provided in yahshua.... but for here and now? probably not)....

 

[MarcR]

It is obvious that legality is a man made perquisite to being righteous and religious. Stay away from the "Hebrew Roots" thing even though the term isn't wrong but there are legalistic factions from within. You have described the burden of a law invented, and interpreted by man, not God. The Pharisees did that. Jesus didn't like it. Don't reject any part of the Bible. The feasts study can teach you a lot about what the church is supposed to be, not what it should be by blowing horns and building tents. They are a parable of sorts. Never reject any words in the Bible. They all mean something, and nothing God has ever spoken and given to us has been negated. Hang in there, and God bless you with wisdom and strength in His name.

Matthew 13:13-15
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

Isaiah 6:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.

I have one question for you. Does abolishing the law also abolish our carnal nature bringing us to trust in the fact that we need a Savior from the very nonexistent substance that shows that we need salvation? I certainly believe Hebrews 7:11-12

If, therefore, perfection had been by means of the priesthood of the Levites in which Torah was imposed upon the people, why was another priest required who should stand up after the likeness of Melchizedek? For it should have said, He shall be after the likeness of Aaron. But as there is a change in the priesthood, so also is there a change in the instruction (to the Levitial priests,)

The instructions relating to the Aaronic priesthood have been changed because that has now been completed in the priesthood of Christ. This does not include the instructions given to the people who were never affiliated with the Levites. Now the same Torah (God's holy word) is issued to us through Christ, being the same as what was given to Israel.

In both cases the priesthood administers Gods law. The instructions for the priesthood to carry out their duties have been totally fulfilled by Christ. The instructions for God's children haven't changed. We are still responsible for our own actions according to God's instructions. There are 2 parts in the law. One is for God's children, and the other is for the priesthood.

A doctrine that claims that God's instructions are now abolished to any extent, and has changed the order, (from the beginning of time), of His step by step plan, is a false doctrine. If we are to focus on what has changed or what has been abolished, we should be focusing on what happed to the born-again believer, saved from death unto life. To focus on a change or abolishment of God's instructions labels a God that is reconnoitering according to the original plan from the beginning.

Granted, God has always desired to have His only begotten Son to be our High Priest, but in order for us to know all of our Savior's glory and might, we needed a physical forerunner as a parable so that we could believe He was able to fulfill that promise for the reemission of our sins and not God's supposed error of burdensome laws.

If this doctrine is purposeful, then it stands to reason why deceptive dialog demands us to believe that Jesus came to somehow change His own Father's omniscience. That is clearly taking the Lord's name in vain. (Exodus 20:7) We should be focusing on our change, not His change. That is the good news. If we focus on God changing through Christ so we can escape the punishment of sin without any accountability, that is not good news, it's actually bad news.

"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:22-23

Heb 8:6-13
6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
KJV

 

[Elin]

I've seen no Scripture truth which addresses what I post.

All I've seen is assertion of fallacious hermeneutics ignoring context for the sake of false doctrine.

As in the fallacious hermeneutic that Heb 8:13 is"the old man" rather than "the old covenant," contrary to its context of "new covenant" in vv. 7-8.

Yeah, right..... NOT! ... sorry, doesn't hold water.....

Assertion without demonstration is without merit.

or more directly, if the NT is different to you than to others, which it has appeared to be the case for months now, then the source of your teaching, who taught you, is the source of your troubles/differences. not the people here who know and post the truth.

Again, assertion without demonstration is without merit.

a month ago I noted that the source of your differences/ troubles is
way to 'deep' to go into here on this forum,

Nice excuse. . .

for lack of time and space, and (mostly maybe) because you won't. it may be
a very long and intertwined investigation, literally may take decades to unravel

The thing about the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers
is that they don't have to be "unraveled". . .nor would it take "decades" to do so.

They simply have to be believed, as in Heb 8:13 in light of its context in vv. 7-8.

"Decades" sounds more like how long it took to weave the convoluted mish-mash of doctrine you present, which is so contrary to the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers; e.g., Heb 8:13.

 

[Jeff_56]

i think i Taw a Puddy Tat! ...... i mean a hot air balloon!

i did ! i did ! it just went up and UP and UP .........




maybe next week or sooner or later it will come down..... yahweh willing....

right up front long ago i said it would probably take a lot of time, and i was right.....

might not even be possible. yahweh knows. we hope it is possible. yahweh willing.

 

[Elin]

for lack of time and space, and (mostly maybe) because you won't. it may be
a very long and intertwined investigation, literally may take decades to unravel

The thing about the words spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers
is that they don't have to be "unraveled". . .nor would it take "decades" to do so.

They simply have to be believed, as in Heb 8:13. . .in light of its context in vv. 7-8.

"Decades" sounds more like how long it took to weave the convoluted mish-mash of
doctrine you present, which is so contrary to the words spoken by the Son
in these last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers; e.g., Heb 8:13.

i think i Taw a Puddy Tat! ...... i mean a hot air balloon!

i did ! i did ! it just went up and UP and UP .........

maybe next week or sooner or later it will come down..... yahweh willing....

right up front long ago i said it would probably take a lot of time, and i was right.....

might not even be possible. yahweh knows. we hope it is possible. yahweh willing.

And that's digging "deep" into the well of your Scriptural truth. . .it took decades to find that? . . .
spare me.

Non-responsive. . .as usual.

 

[just-me]

I can see that when there is no one left to fight with, that the adversary finds new ground to say the same thing over and over just to point out that it's God's fault for speaking the law into existence in the first place. For that mistake (as Satan would want us to believe), God had to send His Son to void out what He previously established. Satan never wants us to look at our sins, but replaces our sins with God's law instead by making God out to be the bad guy. Then we can say we are saved from the law rather than saved from our own sin that brings a certain death. How tragic. That's not Gospel at all. That's putting the blame on something that appears to be God's mistake, and then putting His mistake on Christ instead of our sins.

The Pharisees consistently approached Jesus predetermined to trap Him in arguments they started. It's a tactic. Usually I tend to not take people very seriously who do the same thing. See my signature. When arguments begin, it is wise to know how it happens, and who is behind it. Seems that this thread has been derailed by this tactic. After months of seeing this, I'm under the impression that it's on purpose.

 

[Elin]

I can see that when there is no one left to fight with, that the adversary finds
new ground to say the same thing over and over just to point out that it's God's fault for speaking the law into existence in the first place. For that mistake (as Satan would want us to believe),
God had to send His Son to void out what He previously established.

Like saying the same thing over and over here. . .that the old covenant is not obsolete--old and waxing away, as the NT word of God reveals in Heb 8:13. . .

The Pharisees consistently approached Jesus predetermined to trap Him in arguments they started.
It's a tactic.

The Judaizers did the same thing to Paul. . .and continue to do so here.

Same old same old. ..

 

[just-me]

Rest assured, Satan follows and attacks God's children first, because that's where Christ administers His strength, and blessings. Jesus quoted the law 3 times to Satan when He was temped in the wilderness. The law has strength and Satan wants it gone from the church. Once it's gone, the devil has his own way with no one to fight against the principalities of darkness. Resistance vanishes along with the law.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

 

[Elin]

Rest assured, Satan follows and attacks God's children first, because that's where Christ administers His strength, and blessings. Jesus quoted the law 3 times to Satan when He was temped in the wilderness.

Subtle diversion. . .Jesus quoted from the OT three times, because that was the only Scripture in existence.

And by that logic, Satan quoted the Psalms, so we should never quote them.

 

[just-me]

James 4:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

 

[Jeff_56]

Rest assured, Satan follows and attacks God's children first, because that's where Christ administers His strength, and blessings. Jesus quoted the law 3 times to Satan when He was temped in the wilderness. The law has strength and Satan wants it gone from the church. Once it's gone, the devil has his own way with no one to fight against the principalities of darkness. Resistance vanishes along with the law.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

the wicked just keep trying to wear down the saints.... notice she doesn't care what scripture says - just quips from whatever school, if any, 'taught' her... with no apparent goal or motive or result(growth) in christ jesus.

happen to know how many times yahshua hamashiach quoted written TORAH and spoke TORAH ? ....

(gentiles / pagan nations/ heathens never know)

 

[Biblelogic01]

Subtle diversion. . .Jesus quoted from the OT three times, because that was the only Scripture in existence.

And by that logic, Satan quoted the Psalms, so we should never quote them.

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you just say we should never quote psalms? Or am I reading something wrong?

 

[just-me]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, did you just say we should never quote psalms? Or am I reading something wrong?

Psalm 119 excerpts
1. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed art thou, O Lord: teach me thy statutes.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.
[SUP]77 [/SUP]Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.
[SUP]85 [/SUP]The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.
[SUP]105 [/SUP]Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

 

[KohenMatt]

I'm going to make one valid right now.....

Have a great Sabbath everyone!

 

[Jeff_56]

I'm going to make one valid right now.....

Have a great Sabbath everyone!

ABBA's Sabbath Peace! Shabbat Shalom in YAHSHUA to all who love Him, who are called according to His Purpose...

 

[Jeff_56]

Psalm 119 excerpts
1. Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Blessed art thou, O Lord: teach me thy statutes.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Open thou mine eyes, that I may behold wondrous things out of thy law.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Remove from me the way of lying: and grant me thy law graciously.
[SUP]44 [/SUP]So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]And I will walk at liberty: for I seek thy precepts.
[SUP]53 [/SUP]Horror hath taken hold upon me because of the wicked that forsake thy law.
[SUP]77 [/SUP]Let thy tender mercies come unto me, that I may live: for thy law is my delight.
[SUP]85 [/SUP]The proud have digged pits for me, which are not after thy law.
[SUP]105 [/SUP]Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Tremendous Choice in Grace!

Psalm 119 complete eliminates every argument against you by the catholic heresy and those who trust it,
and the so-called '2 commandments but forget the rest' group.... (and others!)

SHEER GRACE ! PERFECT TRUTH! IN YAHSHUA ! AMEN!

 

[Elin]

James 4:11-12
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge.

As you judge the NT word of God in Heb 8:13?

 

[Elin]

Jesus quoted the law 3 times to Satan when He was temped in the wilderness.

Subtle diversion. . .Jesus quoted from the OT three times, because that was the only Scripture in existence.

And if quoting the OT demonstrates its authority over the NT, then
by that logic, Satan quoted the Psalms. . .showing the OT has no authority?
Your logic fails. . .

the wicked just keep trying to wear down the saints.... notice she doesn't care what scripture says -

Notice your marvelous grasp of the obvious. . .

Would it be unusual for Jesus to quote their own Scriptures?

Did you expect him to quote the writings of, say, the Koran instead?

So, the significance of your point?

Or are you just using the obvious as a thinly-veiled false or non-point. . .
you know, like smoke and mirrors?

just quips from whatever school, if any, 'taught' her... with
no apparent goal or motive or result(growth) in christ jesus.

Notice the irritation. . .at facts which illuminate the subtle diversion to the false gospel. . .
which does not grow anyone in Christ, only in pious self-righteous self-precedence and superiority.

happen to know how many times yahshua hamashiach quoted written TORAH and spoke TORAH ? ....

(gentiles / pagan nations/ heathens never know)

Well, yeah. . .what else would he quote from?

Is there an informative point in here somewhere instead of just smoke and mirrors?

State your point and its significance in a clear and concise manner,
without shrouding in all the smoke and mirrors.