Who can add to the finished work of Christ for their salvation?

[Stephen63]

We must remember that the epistles are to the church about the church. They will help to expose fakes..... but when most of the epistles speak about problems, it's about true believers that are sinning that need to repent..... not fakes that were never saved. When they do, they say so. Example:
1 John 2:18-19 (KJV) [SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. [SUP]19 [/SUP]They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

 

[ChristInUs]

What can I add to the finished work of Christ. Absolutely nothing.

 

[JesusMyOnly]

I think when you understand you aren't doing the work, you understand you arent maintaining your salvation.

God is faithful to finish the work He started within you.
Look at Philippians 1:6. You don't begin the work and you sure don't maintain it apart from God working within you.
You have been crucified with Christ and it isn't you, but it is Christ living within you. See Galatians 2:20. You can do nothing apart from Christ, which means you can't do anything without Him. Which indicates, you aren't maintaining but it is He. See John 15:5. Also read Ezekiel 26:21-29, count the number of times God says He will do something and see how many it says His people will do.

Ultimately God gives Life, God maintains it and sees it through til the end. Now don't get me wrong, faith will produce works. A true faith must produce works, otherwise it wasn't a true faith. But it isn't that you did so many good works that you can enter heaven. God's people will obey Him and will repent and will follow Christ. Philippians 2:12-13 states it beautifully, God commanding thst we work out our salvation in fear and trembling and to continue in obedience, for it is God working within us to will and act for His good purpose. So from a human perspective we are doing works, we are obedient to God. But as Christians we know it isn't us, but He who dwells within us. And God will see His people through til the end, even when we go astray. He will draw us back, and we will see that in repentance and walking with Christ through faith.

This is my understanding of Scripture and God's hand in things. I will try to bring it in love and humility. If there is anything I was incorrect on, please inform me! I'm am open to correction and learning. But I do truly believe this is what Scripture teaches and is true. Thank you for hearing me out!

Hello Nico07, to what you said here : 'You can do nothing apart from Christ, which means you can't do anything without Him.' I agree all the way, 100%.


As I like to say, I do not believe I am saved because of anything I have done alone. There is nothing work wise that I have done, that I could do now or that I could ever do that would save me apart from Christ. My works are as filthy rags to God. And to bribe the Father and Judge of everything in existence by my works alone to get me into heaven would be the biggest joke ever. I can not boast about my works because I am worthless without Christ. But this does not mean I am not to be obedient and work to receive and maintain salvation.


With the verse you have shared, Philippians 1:6, I use to believe this verse meant salvation could never be lost. I believed like you did at one time. But go back to verse 5 and notice what it says. In view of your participation in the gospel from the first day until now. Paul was addressing those in the church in the book of Philippians but this specific verse can be directed to Christians of all ages, anywhere. In verse 5 we notice that it speaks about their participation in the gospel and the 'until now' part shows that they were still (present tense) being participants of the gospel, they were being obedient to Christ. And yes, as verse 6 states God will finish the work He has started within us IF we continue on in participation of the gospel. IF we are obedient unto Christ.


Also take a look at Philippians 2:12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling;


Why does Paul tell us to work out our own salvation with fear and trembeling if the work we do is all by God and God alone?


Now for John 15:5 Jesus is talking strictly to the Apostles. And the Apostles only. Carefully read through John 14, 15 and 16 and get the context and who Jesus is talking directly to.


And in no way am I trying to sound mean but your 'Ezekiel 26:21-29' must be a typo because Ezekiel 26 only has 21 verses.


James chapter 2, verses 14-26 is very important for any Christians to read over, study and meditate on. Especially I need to do this more. Verses 17, 20 and 24 are very strong verses showing that without works your faith is non existent.

 

[Nico07]

Ezekiel 36, sorry lol!

 

[Nico07]

No John 15, can be applied to all believers I believe in this context I believe he is talking directly to the disciples but applying to believers as whole. The disciples are the only ones that bear fruit?

 

[Nico07]

If you work to receive and maintain your salvation, who is able to boast? You or God?

 

[JesusMyOnly]

There are certain things said by Jesus (or certain things in the Scriptures in general) that are directed to a group of people and that specific group of people only. I too once believed that this chapter could be directed to all Christians and not just the Apostles. The fruit of the Apostles here was being that they were to go out and to help people become Christians. Jesus is the vine, the Apostles were the branches and the Christians that would be taught by and converted because of the Apostles doctrine were the 'fruit' of the Apostles' work.

 

[Nico07]

And as far as Philippians 2:12, you have to go on to verse 13 to explain it. You are going to have to explain why Paul says God is working within you? I would say there is simply a human perspective and a godly perspective. God knows who is saved and who isnt, we dont. God gives us commands and guidelines to follow, and even calls us to test things and examine ourselves daily. So to a human we are living it day by day, but God knows the outcome. He is working within His people, and we see it on a day to day basis. God already knows, and is working within His people. Those who hear God's word and obey, and run the race and have a true faith. That is who God is working within, and His work is being made complete within them. I tried my best to word it, but I'm not so good at at lol. Thank you for your post miss!

 

[JesusMyOnly]

If you work to receive and maintain your salvation, who is able to boast? You or God?

No one can/should boast 'show off' because they are being obediant to Christ, doing as Christ has said to do. Luke 6:46 "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?


If someone is boasting for their obedience/works they need to center themselves and realize they are nothing without God, they are nothing without/apart from Christ. I can not boast because I am worthless without Christ. But I must be obedient to Him as He has asked.

 

[kedge]

But the Truth is the Truth and it will offend some people.

But that is the thing you see, what exactly is the truth?, is there really one truth or is it people make their own truth?.

 

[Nico07]

And I would simply reply, you can do nothing apart from Christ. You can't obey Him, if it wasn't for Him. We don't have the ability to obey part from Him.

 

[Nico07]

There are certain things said by Jesus (or certain things in the Scriptures in general) that are directed to a group of people and that specific group of people only. I too once believed that this chapter could be directed to all Christians and not just the Apostles. The fruit of the Apostles here was being that they were to go out and to help people become Christians. Jesus is the vine, the Apostles were the branches and the Christians that would be taught by and converted because of the Apostles doctrine were the 'fruit' of the Apostles' work.

And as for John 15, what specific parts would apply to just the disciples and not to believers as well?

 

[Nico07]

Christ simply put it, He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.

 

[JesusMyOnly]

And I would simply reply, you can do nothing apart from Christ. You can't obey Him, if it wasn't for Him. We don't have the ability to obey part from Him.

When you said we can not do anything apart from Christ I agreed (in another post on here before) not exactly thinking before posting. I do agree that apart from Christ our works, everything we do is nothing if we are apart from Christ. We do not need to be saved to be obedient tho. How would one ever come to Christ to be saved if we had to be saved to be obedient.


Scriptures show one has to be obedient to be saved, even before salvation. It does not show that we can not be obedient unless we are saved. Obedience comes before salvation.








Example verses (not my writen out work) : What must a man do to be saved? Jesus answers:


Hear and Obey: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life” (John 5:24); “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice” (John 18:37). “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man” (Matthew 7:24).


Believe: “I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins” (John 8:24).


Repent: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17); “I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3, 5).


Confess: “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32, 33).


Be Baptized: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5); “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you” (Matthew 28:19, 20); “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16).


Remain Faithful: “Be Faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:24).

 

[kedge]

But what is the works?, Jesus commanded his followers to preach the good news of God's kingdom. I believe in God, i am a proponent of intelligent design, i observe purposeful design in natural phenomena so i accept the designer, design commands a designer, evolution can not account for purposeful design found in nature because of evolutions blind unguided random chance processes, natural phenomena such as that found in nature can not come from evolutionary natural processes such as natural laws forces or causes, neither can it come into existence from nothingness, it is impossible, so the point is proven beyond doubt.


But i don't class myself as a Christian, i don't attend churches or places of worship (Hebrews 10:25) just because i believe in God and that Jesus is the saviour of sinful mankind, i'm not 100% sure what makes a christian a christian, folk can learn basic truths from the Holy Scriptures but i think there is more to it than to just simple 'believe'.

 

[Nico07]

When you said we can not do anything apart from Christ I agreed (in another post on here before) not exactly thinking before posting. I do agree that apart from Christ our works, everything we do is nothing if we are apart from Christ. We do not need to be saved to be obedient tho. How would one ever come to Christ to be saved if we had to be saved to be obedient.


Scriptures show one has to be obedient to be saved, even before salvation. It does not show that we can not be obedient unless we are saved. Obedience comes before salvation.








Example verses (not my writen out work) : What must a man do to be saved? Jesus answers:


Hear and Obey: “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life” (John 5:24); “Everyone who is of the truth hears My voice” (John 18:37). “Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine, and acts upon them, may be compared to a wise man” (Matthew 7:24).


Believe: “I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins” (John 8:24).


Repent: “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matthew 4:17); “I tell you, no, but, unless you repent, you will all likewise perish” (Luke 13:3, 5).


Confess: “Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. But whoever shall deny Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 10:32, 33).


Be Baptized: “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God” (John 3:5); “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Teaching them to observe all that I commanded you” (Matthew 28:19, 20); “He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved” (Mark 16:16).


Remain Faithful: “Be Faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life” (Revelation 2:10). “God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth” (John 4:24).

If our works are nothing but filthy rags before a Holy God, if we are dead in our sins, if our hearts our deceitful and wicked, if we did not love God......then I am pretty perplexed on how we could be obedient apart from God working within us first?

 

[Nico07]

And I would still like to hear your thoughts on Ezekiel 36, it doesn't sound like we do anything and that He is doing it for His name's sake.

 

[JesusMyOnly]

If our works are nothing but filthy rags before a Holy God, if we are dead in our sins, if our hearts our deceitful and wicked, if we did not love God......then I am pretty perplexed on how we could be obedient apart from God working within us first?

You are saying that we can not obey God unless we are saved (correct me if I'm not getting what you are saying)? But how could one be obedient and go to God to be saved (as He has asked us to do) if they are not already saved, because you seem to be saying we can't be obedient at all unless we are saved. There is that choice to not just believe in God but believe Him, to do as He has asked us to do and trust all He says. You can very well do this before salvation.

 

[Nico07]

You are saying that we can not obey God unless we are saved (correct me if I'm not getting what you are saying)? But how could one be obedient and go to God to be saved (as He has asked us to do) if they are not already saved, because you seem to be saying we can't be obedient at all unless we are saved. There is that choice to not just believe in God but believe Him, to do as He has asked us to do and trust all He says. You can very well do this before salvation.

I would say without God first working within us, I'm not sure how we have the desire to obey Him. You still didn't answer, how if all those things are true how we can be obedient?

 

[JesusMyOnly]

I would say without God first working within us, I'm not sure how we have the desire to obey Him. You still didn't answer, how if all those things are true how we can be obedient?

We can be obedient because of that choice making right we have. Free will. Everyone has a choice to deny/reject Christ or to live for and with Him. You are saying we don't have a desire to be obedient to God unless He is working in us. But what about all of those who are lost? Did God not work within them?