Who does the Temple Mt belong to?

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Lafftur

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2017
6,739
3,556
113
#21
What does it matter? It's just a piece of dirt.
I love this answer! It's such a reminder of how heaven asks God why He care about us so much - we're just dirt!

However, God loves us - His little pieces of dirt on planet Earth and we are His temple on Earth and we totally belong to HIM!

This little piece of dirt, which happens to be God's Temple is madly in love with Jesus!! LOL!!:)
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#22
Uh..... some of you Zionists might not want to get too carried away on that one. The word, "covenant" has always stood for an agreement between two parties. If one party violates the terms of the covenant, it no longer stands. Try stopping the payments on your house, and see how fast you learn that truth. Israel blew it. That covenant is no longer in effect.
So what does everlasting imply?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,260
431
83
#23
So what does everlasting imply?

Here are 2 of several everlasting covenants God cuts with/by Himself

Gen 9:13 13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
(NOTE: God cut the rainbow covenant with Himself)

Gen 15:17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:
(NOTE: Here again The LORD cuts this covenant by Himself. See vs 12 Abram is sleeping)
 

davida

Senior Member
Sep 9, 2017
115
1
0
#25
@willi e. The covenant was unilateral. Abraham was sleeping
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
#26
I do not consider myself a "Zionist" by any means. However, I do believe God made a covenant, an everlasting covenant with a people called the Jews. I do believe they are a special people to Him.

That in no way crosses out the "plan of salvation" for all men.

God can make everlasting and keep everlasting.
 

prove-all

Senior Member
May 16, 2014
5,977
400
83
63
#27
The Romans. It was a Roman fortress and the Temple never stood on it.

History is not really your subject is it?
If the question was, what is the Wailing Wall today ?


Temple Mount
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount

The present site is dominated by three monumental structures from the early Umayyad period:
the al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock and the Dome of the Chain, as well as four minarets.

Herodian walls and gates with additions dating back to the late Byzantine and early Islamic
periods cut through the flanks of the Mount. Currently it can be reached through eleven gates,
ten reserved for Muslims and one for non-Muslims, with guard posts of Israeli police in the
vicinity of each.

According to the Bible, the Jewish Temples stood on the Temple Mount.

-
As Christ wept over Jerusalem (Luke 19:41), He prophesied that the city would
be completely destroyed.“For the days shall come upon thee [Jerusalem], that
thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep
thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children
within thee; and they shallnot leave in thee one stone upon another …” (v43-44).

In the prophecies of Jesus, not only the stones that made up the temple and its
OUTER walls were to be torn down, but He also included within that destruction
the stones that comprised the totality of the city of Jerusalem.


Since the temple and all its walls were destroyed, what then is the edifice we
call the Temple Mount today? Why are those massive walls still standing?

-
Eleazar, the Jewish resistance leader, wrote, “Where is this city that was
believed to have God Himself inhabiting therein? It is now demolished to
the very foundations, and hath nothing left but that monument of it preserved,
I mean the camp of those [Romans] that hath destroyed it, which [camp] still
dwells upon its ruins ….”

Eleazar said the only thing unscathed from the war and still standing was
a facility located just beyond the border of ancient Jerusalem.

“That facility known as the Haram [or what is called the Temple Mount] was
officially reckoned as being beyond and outside the limits of Jewish Jerusalem.


That’s where the Dome of the Rock is today. It was not reckoned as being
part of the municipality of Jerusalem.”

Josephus said the Romans set fire to the whole city, demolishing even the walls.
Much of the destruction of the city of Jerusalem came after the war had ceased.

the Jews themselves helped destroy the temple so that it not be polluted
is reflected in an early Jewish work called Second Baruch.

-

f those rectangular walls of the Haram are those which surrounded the
Temple Mount, as we are informed by all authorities today, why did Josephus
and Titus leave out any mention about this magnificent Haram structure?
That is, where the Dome of the Rock is, and the Wailing Wall.

-
the dome of the rock now sits on the temple mount.
the Temple Mount today was actually a Roman building located
at the edge, but outside, of ancient Jerusalem.


“the worshipers of the Wailing Wall are directing their present devotions
and venerations to a Roman edifice that their ancestors in Herod’s time
held in utter contempt.” before the 16th century “there was not a Jew in
the world who paid the slightest respect to that western Wailing Wall,”
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#29
If the question was, what is the Wailing Wall today ?


Temple Mount
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount

The present site is dominated by three monumental structures from the early Umayyad period:
the al-Aqsa Mosque, the Dome of the Rock and the Dome of the Chain, as well as four minarets.

Herodian walls and gates with additions dating back to the late Byzantine and early Islamic
periods cut through the flanks of the Mount. Currently it can be reached through eleven gates,
ten reserved for Muslims and one for non-Muslims, with guard posts of Israeli police in the
vicinity of each.

According to the Bible, the Jewish Temples stood on the Temple Mount.

-
As Christ wept over Jerusalem (Luke 19:41), He prophesied that the city would
be completely destroyed.“For the days shall come upon thee [Jerusalem], that
thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep
thee in on every side, And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children
within thee; and they shallnot leave in thee one stone upon another …” (v43-44).

In the prophecies of Jesus, not only the stones that made up the temple and its
OUTER walls were to be torn down, but He also included within that destruction
the stones that comprised the totality of the city of Jerusalem.


Since the temple and all its walls were destroyed, what then is the edifice we
call the Temple Mount today? Why are those massive walls still standing?

-
Eleazar, the Jewish resistance leader, wrote, “Where is this city that was
believed to have God Himself inhabiting therein? It is now demolished to
the very foundations, and hath nothing left but that monument of it preserved,
I mean the camp of those [Romans] that hath destroyed it, which [camp] still
dwells upon its ruins ….”

Eleazar said the only thing unscathed from the war and still standing was
a facility located just beyond the border of ancient Jerusalem.

“That facility known as the Haram [or what is called the Temple Mount] was
officially reckoned as being beyond and outside the limits of Jewish Jerusalem.


That’s where the Dome of the Rock is today. It was not reckoned as being
part of the municipality of Jerusalem.”

Josephus said the Romans set fire to the whole city, demolishing even the walls.
Much of the destruction of the city of Jerusalem came after the war had ceased.

the Jews themselves helped destroy the temple so that it not be polluted
is reflected in an early Jewish work called Second Baruch.

-

f those rectangular walls of the Haram are those which surrounded the
Temple Mount, as we are informed by all authorities today, why did Josephus
and Titus leave out any mention about this magnificent Haram structure?
That is, where the Dome of the Rock is, and the Wailing Wall.

-
the dome of the rock now sits on the temple mount.
the Temple Mount today was actually a Roman building located
at the edge, but outside, of ancient Jerusalem.


“the worshipers of the Wailing Wall are directing their present devotions
and venerations to a Roman edifice that their ancestors in Herod’s time
held in utter contempt.” before the 16th century “there was not a Jew in
the world who paid the slightest respect to that western Wailing Wall,”


Since the temple and all its walls were destroyed, what then is the edifice we
call the Temple Mount today? Why are those massive walls still standing?


“the worshipers of the Wailing Wall are directing their present devotions
and venerations to a Roman edifice that their ancestors in Herod’s time
held in utter contempt.” before the 16th century “there was not a Jew in
the world who paid the slightest respect to that western Wailing Wall,”
True prove-all and Mr. Martin makes those points in his book.

"Once this southern location for the Temple is recognized, an historical account by Josephus now makes sense. He said that before the war, Agrippa the Second would customarily recline at dining in a veranda room at his place with his friends. From that spot they could look at what was happening within the Temple courts. For Agrippa to see the interior of the Temple the elevated part of his palace (where he would dine with his friends) must have been in the Upper City and at an elevation higher than the western wall of the Temple. When the religious authorities heard that Agrippa was entertaining his friends in such a manner (viewing the religious activities within the Temple courts), they decided to prevent this by constructing a new wall on top of the western colonnade 699. This additional height obscured Agrippa's view.

Look at this incident carefully.700 In no way could Agrippa have seen inside the Temple courts if the temple was located over the Dome of the Rock within the Haram. That area in the north is much higher in elevation and would have been far too elevated for Agrippa to look over the Temple walls into the courts where the worshippers assembled. This again shows that the Haram can in no way be considered the site of the Temple of Herod." (Ernest L. Martin, The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot, pg.467).

699-Antiquities XX.8,11.
700-I am indebted to the Israeli architect Tuvia Sagiv for pointing it out to me on his Web Site. Indeed, with the actual Temple being 600 feet south of the southern wall of the Haram, the observation of Tuvia Sagiv makes even better sense (War VI.2,6).


 
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FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,260
431
83
#31
A partial list of Gods land covenant w/Israel

Jerusalem is a unique city, & is the "Capital of Israel" (Ps 87:1-2, Ps 132:13-14

God established that the land of Israel belongs to Him (Lev 25:23, Deut 11:12

God has placed His name in Jerusalem (II Chronicles 6:6, I Kings 9:3

God established His covenant with Abraham & promises to bless those who bless Israel: (Gen 12:2-3, 13:14, 15:17-18

God gives the exact boundaries of the promised land in Num 34:1-15 (also: Deut 1:8, Ex 2:24, Ex 6:4, 8 & Ps 105:8-11

King David "bought" the threshing floor (37 acre Temple Mt area) from Araunah the Jebusite. & built an altar to the Lord so that a “plague may be held back from the people” (2 Sam 24:18, 21 & 1 Chron 21

(PAY SPECIAL ATTENTION TO: Num 34:1-15)
(George Bush tried to give away Israel's land. Barack Obama want's to give away Israel's land. It's not their's to give or negotiate away. God gave it to Israel in a "Everlasting Covenant"

God states that the covenant of the Land is based on "His" eternal character, "Not" on Israel's own righteousness. He makes clear that even when they forsake His will, He will "NEVER" forget His covenant (Lev:26:42-45, Jer 31:35-37, Ps 89:30-37

God will restore Israel (After 2000 yrs DONE 1948) for the sake of His holy name: (Eze. 37:17-23, 39:25-29, Jer 33:23-26)

God says He will gather the exiles & bring them home to Israel (Began in 1948 & continues today) (Isa 11:1-12 & many other scriptures)

The national, physical restoration of Israel In the last days (THATS US NOW) is a necessary and prophesied step towards restoration and ultimate redemption for the entire world:
(Ezek 36:24-29, 37:11-14, Jer 3:1:8-10, 31:31­34, Amos 9:14-15)

All The Above Are True because GOD Is NOT a man that He should lie. Num 23:19

In Nov, 9 2012 The UN recognize Palistine (a bunch of Jordanian squatter's in 1948) as a state. & proclaimed East Jerusalam to belong to them. Like Bush & Obama the UN can't give away God's gift to Israel either

Behold, I (God) will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling & a burdensome stone for all people. (Zec 12:2

Zec 12:3 says that those nations that “burden themselves” with this City (those that “lift it up”; those that take sides with its people) “shall be cut in pieces” (or, by doing so “they shall grievously hurt themselves”

nyone that takes part in giving away Israelie land is begging for a world of Hurt!

NOTE: to the Donald: DON'T EVER TRY TO DO IT!

In Genesis, Abraham buys a piece of the promise land for 400 pieces of silver.

It is also recorded that Jacob bought another piece of the promise land.

So 1st the true owner GOD gives it to the Israelites. Then also recorded Abraham, Jacob & David buy parts.
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#32
Who owns the Temple Mt. in Jerusalem?

More importantly, Who owns Jerusalem?



Answer: Israel has a 3500 year claim on it plus the Title has God's Name on it as the Owner and Leasee.

It matters not right now. God is fixing to take it back... Israel is God's timepiece. Look to the events there to escalate into what I believe to be the Psalm 83 War. A prophecy 3000 years old.

 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#33
Well I didn't want to get into this.....but ....well here it goes.

The temple mount...the wailing wall ect are all wrong placement. Yes indeed it is part of the fortress , but don't tell the Jews or Muslim that it won't be pretty.
You then say Potter you are crazy...but listen to what Jesus prophesied......not one stone shall be left on another......is he a liar?

The dome of the rock is a clue but not the spot. Josephus who was a eye witness talked about a 70 ft tall rock and from the top of that rock gave detailed description of where the temple stood. The fortress had bridges that connected to the temple in a way so that the Roman guard could observe what was going on in the temple at all the. If a uprising was to take place they would have means to enter the temple and halt the trouble.
The wailing wall is part of that structure....ssshhhh.
There is a model today that is on display but that model was built in the 1960s I believe and has been proven to be in error but as tradition would have it.....well....that's why God said his people are stiff necked.
Remember Jesus said completely destroyed..... Josephus was a eye witness.....even the underground waterways that flow still today that fed the temple
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#34
Uh..... some of you Zionists might not want to get too carried away on that one. The word, "covenant" has always stood for an agreement between two parties. If one party violates the terms of the covenant, it no longer stands. Try stopping the payments on your house, and see how fast you learn that truth. Israel blew it. That covenant is no longer in effect.


Wrong again Willie-T,,,the covenants were unconditional.. Meaning at least by normal standards, that there is nothing that could happen to overturn the contents of the covenant.




p.s. there is quite a bit of differences in God's Covenant(s) to Israel and any local real-estate mortgage company. Don't you think so?
 
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K

kaylagrl

Guest
#35
It would have been nice if you two had asked me what I was talking about instead of running me down.


Quote "The Romans. It was a Roman fortress and the Temple never stood on it."

Why would anyone have to ask what you were talking about when you already stated it? I didn't run you down at all. People these days can't seem to separate from their opinion,disagreeing with your opinion isn't personal and isn't running you down.
 

ComeLordJesus

Senior Member
Dec 26, 2017
372
39
28
#36
Well I didn't want to get into this.....but ....well here it goes.

The temple mount...the wailing wall ect are all wrong placement. Yes indeed it is part of the fortress , but don't tell the Jews or Muslim that it won't be pretty.
You then say Potter you are crazy...but listen to what Jesus prophesied......not one stone shall be left on another......is he a liar?

The dome of the rock is a clue but not the spot. Josephus who was a eye witness talked about a 70 ft tall rock and from the top of that rock gave detailed description of where the temple stood. The fortress had bridges that connected to the temple in a way so that the Roman guard could observe what was going on in the temple at all the. If a uprising was to take place they would have means to enter the temple and halt the trouble.
The wailing wall is part of that structure....ssshhhh.
There is a model today that is on display but that model was built in the 1960s I believe and has been proven to be in error but as tradition would have it.....well....that's why God said his people are stiff necked.
Remember Jesus said completely destroyed..... Josephus was a eye witness.....even the underground waterways that flow still today that fed the temple

This is where the Temple really was.


http://askelm.com/tdetail.htm
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#37
Well I didn't want to get into this.....but ....well here it goes.

The temple mount...the wailing wall ect are all wrong placement. Yes indeed it is part of the fortress , but don't tell the Jews or Muslim that it won't be pretty.
You then say Potter you are crazy...but listen to what Jesus prophesied......not one stone shall be left on another......is he a liar?

The dome of the rock is a clue but not the spot. Josephus who was a eye witness talked about a 70 ft tall rock and from the top of that rock gave detailed description of where the temple stood. The fortress had bridges that connected to the temple in a way so that the Roman guard could observe what was going on in the temple at all the. If a uprising was to take place they would have means to enter the temple and halt the trouble.
The wailing wall is part of that structure....ssshhhh.
There is a model today that is on display but that model was built in the 1960s I believe and has been proven to be in error but as tradition would have it.....well....that's why God said his people are stiff necked.
Remember Jesus said completely destroyed..... Josephus was a eye witness.....even the underground waterways that flow still today that fed the temple
The temples were below and at the end of the temple Mount..The Bible tells us the temple was NOT on top of the Hill. No Stone was un-turned did happen. In fact all of Jerusalem was buried and built over. Only the Temple Mount where the Roman Soldiers were quartered was left intact.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,471
12,943
113
#38
That's an easy one: Jesus. :)
That's it in a nutshell. But many prophecies will need to be fulfilled before God established His true and undefiled temple in Jerusalem after the second coming of Christ
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,265
5,624
113
#39
Exact location isn't really an issue. God gave that land to those Jews. What's it to us? Why should we be troubling them over it?
He said he would bring them back from all the lands where he scattered them. He said he would restore them to their land.
Far be it from me to try to get in the way!
 

Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#40
Exact location isn't really an issue. God gave that land to those Jews. What's it to us? Why should we be troubling them over it?
He said he would bring them back from all the lands where he scattered them. He said he would restore them to their land.
Far be it from me to try to get in the way!
He already has brought them back to their land