Who is receiving the Spirit?

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Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,334
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#81
those 2 verses i have memorized! a person becomes a born again Christian & at that second, the Holy Spirit moves into your life & is with you forever.
He usually does, unless the believer rebels.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,922
793
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#82
He usually does, unless the believer rebels.
being born again is a 1 time deal. you said: "He usually does". that's incorrect. HE ALWAYS ENTERS THE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS LIFE! if someone refuses the H.S., that's blasphemy & is not born again. blasphemy is receiving, ridiculing & rejecting the H.S.
 

Edify

Well-known member
Jan 27, 2021
1,334
518
113
#83
being born again is a 1 time deal. you said: "He usually does". that's incorrect. HE ALWAYS ENTERS THE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS LIFE! if someone refuses the H.S., that's blasphemy & is not born again. blasphemy is receiving, ridiculing & rejecting the H.S.
Sorry, I meant He always does until one rebels. Is that better?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,219
4,952
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#84
If the Bible is all we needed, then how come there are still so many factions among believers just from reading the Bible. No, the "completeness" is about us. When WE are complete, we won't need those gifts because we will be all in agreement with each other.


🚀
We need to apply the things we learn in the Bible to our real life that’s what the bible actually teaches

“Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls. But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.”
‭‭James‬ ‭1:21-22‬ ‭

when we read this knowledge in the Bible

“But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We shouldnt then think “ I believe it ! now I don’t need to do what it’s saying or it doesn’t apply to me “ we should just believe it which would automatically lead us to start applying it to our lives and ways in life towards others because we just believed in the one teaching it who is himself the very judge appointed for all people

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

what happens if I start learning what Jesus the judge said about judgement and applying that to how I live ? What’s my judgement going to be like when I face Jesus for all my deeds good and bad if I’ve heard him and believes and followed after this applying it to me because I believe ?

But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:35-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

can you see how if I heard about this and then disregarded it that’s different than if I hear it and believe and begin applying it in my actions ?

For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I can not bother acting on
Believing in Jesus is more than a mental exercise. It was Jesus who said to those Jews which believed on him, IF ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.? (John 8:31-32) What Jesus was referring to initially became a reality for those at Pentecost. They continued in His word and were made free; they received their spiritual rebirth. Whom the son sets free is free indeed. (John 8:36)


"Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." Acts 2:36-41



"But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,
To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ." Gal 4:4-7
“a son, then an heir of God through Christ."


“But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:12-13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:26-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
12,219
4,952
113
#85
being born again is a 1 time deal. you said: "He usually does". that's incorrect. HE ALWAYS ENTERS THE BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS LIFE! if someone refuses the H.S., that's blasphemy & is not born again. blasphemy is receiving, ridiculing & rejecting the H.S.
there’s alot of good scriptire about being born again as a child of God in the Bible which also says if we hear and accept believe his word we’ll have everlasting life

The concept of bieng “born again “ came from Jesus teachings in the gospel of the kingdom like this

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh;( we all are )


and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.”( we need to be born of Jesus the only begotten son of Gods spirit to be his children )
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It is the spirit that quickeneth;

the flesh profiteth nothing:

the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬

in other words we need to receive Jesus the sons spirit in our hearts

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus taught this in the gospel and said if we believe we’ll have everlasting life as an example

“After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:9‬ ‭

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Jesus is teaching his disciples this stuff and saying believe me


“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭

We often want to reject what the only begotten son of God taught his disciples about the father in heaven , but we should believe him even if it doesn’t agree with what we thought beforehand

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,779
1,038
113
#88
those 2 verses i have memorized! a person becomes a born again Christian & at that second, the Holy Spirit moves into your life & is with you forever.
The six scriptures referenced confirm what is involved in becoming born again. The records also reveal the second the Holy Ghost came to dwell INSIDE of the individuals.
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,779
1,038
113
#89
Yes, again corporate empowerment from the Holy Spirit as entire groups receive Him, rather than individual indwelling in question. I will agree to disagree.
To receive the Holy Ghost means He comes to dwell inside individuals. It's part of the NT rebirth. This truth was established on the day Jesus shed forth the Holy Ghost:

"And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.

And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.

And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance." Acts 2:2-4
 

Wansvic

Well-known member
Nov 27, 2018
4,779
1,038
113
#90
those 2 verses i have memorized! a person becomes a born again Christian & at that second, the Holy Spirit moves into your life & is with you forever.
Which 2 verses?
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
1,922
793
113
#91
Sorry, I meant He always does until one rebels. Is that better?
thanks for your clarification. this is a reminder that when the H.S. calls us & we neglect to respond, He may give another call or 2 & then He will stop because of our refusal to answer His promptings.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,047
1,029
113
New Zealand
#93
Ok, what are they? It's commonplace to just post them. It might make your argument more ironclad.:)
Another scripture is Ephesians 4. Like 1 co 13... alone it isn't enough to support cessationism, but together with other scripture it does support it.

So.. like 1 co 13...there is a point at which the gifts (in this case supernaturally empowered ministry gifts) come to a point of finishing and completing. This case it is 'the knowledge of the unity of the faith ' ..the 'measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ '

The completed Canon is these things.

So that is another part.
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
1,258
613
113
#94
Right. "Then THAT which is complete (perfect = complete) has come." Not "Who which is perfect" (as applicable to Christ or even perfected saints).
So what's "Perfect" about the "Visible Church"???
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,047
1,029
113
New Zealand
#95
Whatever is perfect completes that partial..it is the complete swallowing up or finishing something partial. In this passage, it is the gifts of prophecy, tongues and knowledge. The biblical meaning of perfect is also maturity, completion. That is how it is in English grammar in tenses-- 'the perfect tense' is something that is finishing or finished.

So 'the perfect' completes prophecy, tongues and knowledge gifts. Knowledge.. not meaning general knowledge.. but supernaturally empowered special knowledge.

Now.. of course at the 2nd coming.. these pass away. But before the 2nd coming we have: the completed canon.. the death of the apostles and the destruction of the Jewish temple.

The canon is also not the just the books.. but the process that led to the establishing of these books and also building of the early NT churches through the apostles.

The foundation is built.. then you put away the tools to build the foundation.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,471
12,943
113
#96
So what's "Perfect" about the "Visible Church"???
Nothing. I was referring to the perfect written Word of God. Please note that Scripture says "that which is perfect" (or "complete" depending on context), not "who which is perfect" (referring to Christ or Christians).

New International Version
but when completeness* comes, what is in part disappears.

*Strong's Concordance
teleios: having reached its end, i.e. complete, by ext. perfect

Original Word: τέλειος, α, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: teleios
Phonetic Spelling: (tel'-i-os)
Definition: having reached its end, complete, perfect
Usage: perfect, (a) complete in all its parts, (b) full grown, of full age, (c) specially of the completeness of Christian character.
 

wattie

Senior Member
Feb 24, 2009
3,047
1,029
113
New Zealand
#98
Yup that's the standard cessationist rationalization. But since the published Bible(s) isn't "Perfect" where does that leave us???
First thing.. 'perfect' in the bible.. usually has the meaning of 'lacking nothing necessary for completeness' or 'maturity' rather than sinless/imperfectionless

Next thing-- what are you saying isn't perfect? For Paul.. the inspired scriptures.. completed would most certainly be perfect! In the sinless/imperfectless meaning!
 

FollowerofShiloh

Well-known member
Jan 24, 2024
2,406
351
83
#99
First thing.. 'perfect' in the bible.. usually has the meaning of 'lacking nothing necessary for completeness' or 'maturity' rather than sinless/imperfectionless

Next thing-- what are you saying isn't perfect? For Paul.. the inspired scriptures.. completed would most certainly be perfect! In the sinless/imperfectless meaning!
Inspired by God is not written by God. Major difference.