Whoever cares to answer

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

Grace gives us eternal life. Being judged, remakes us into spiritual images of Jesus. Because of God's application of grace and judgment in our past, we don't normally see ourselves of being guilty of sins that were worthy of the death penalty, which is where grace came into play. but when God began judging us, we were similar to the useless pieces of human vermin that are now found in the Muslim faith. Most of them are human rejects, who if they don't soon get the idea of compassion and forgiveness, are going to experience the "second death." Where God refuses to save them for another chance at the kingdom when they die, and their souls will be allowed to just dissipate and vanish, not being worthy of even returning as pigs or monkeys, something that Muhammad warned them of, but it fell on the ears of a stiff necked people.
That is the reason we have both. Grace gives us eternal life, when we don't deserve it. Judgment slowly makes us into better people who will deserve eternal life.

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Gary Sechler
[FONT=&quot]With knowledge on loan from God[/FONT]

Jimbone · Sep 7, 2014

LEPIDUS said:

I saw a lot of really long answers to the original question, but yours is closest to what I felt. When I read the question the first time one word came to mind. Gratitude. Gratitude for the completely unearned, undeserved, unfathomable gift of mercy only a God as great and holy as ours would even think of giving such a wretched bunch of beings. The miracle of the Holy Spirit is unlike anything the world could offer or is even willing to accept exist. Once He's inside you, you understand.

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

ELECT said:

Because we are judged. As we have done, we will be done unto, until we desire to never treat someone in that way again.

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Gary Sechler
[FONT=&quot]With knowledge on loan from God[/FONT]

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

know1 said:

Well, let's see if this can be straightened out. The fire, is the trials and tribulations that we go through in life. Not a burning fire that goes on forever after we die. God wants us to change and stop sinning, He is not a sadist. Hell is very real, someone who is addicted to alcohol or dope, is in a very real hell. Anyone born into a Muslim country is in a lifetime of hell. Africa with its venomous snakes, crocodiles, hippos, lions, wild dogs,etc. was the original hell, with many variations of it spread all over the world, mostly in Southeast asia, although South America was close in the running. Today, hell is as urban as Detroit or anywhere the Democrats and mafia (unions) run the government, (New York, Boston, Washington DC, etc.) People born without arms, legs, are paralyzed, blind or deaf, are in a partial hell, that they must learn to deal with and have compassion for those who are also that way, in order to escape it. Some are in a civilized hell, like a penitentiary, well almost civilized. Some are close to exiting hell, like the people who live in Israel, who seek peace and are willing to forgive and forget, but their neighbors just want to kill them. All they have to do is realize that God didn't give them that land, they stole it from the Canaanites, (Ezra lied). The whole world is the kingdom of God, if God rules your life, and you are willing to live under His rule. Abraham showed them what to do when Sarah died, he bought a piece of land to bury her in. when they left Egypt, they left with enough gold to buy any land they needed. The reason they spent 40 years in the wilderness, is because when they came to the land, instead of wanting to buy it from the owners, they wanted to kill them and take their land. God was so mad at them. He killed them all off, and made them enter as their grandchildren, and left them with a legacy of war and hate, which was their judgment for their evil.

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Gary Sechler
[FONT=&quot]With knowledge on loan from God[/FONT]

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

FireHeart said:

Not just "reminded," but become devoted to never sinning that way again, which usually means being the victim of a similar sin by someone else, who is being tried with the same temptation you failed.
If you have a kid who went out to your car, took a knife from the kitchen and stuck it in all four tires just to smell the air as it came out. are you gonna forgive him? of course, but you definitely don't want him to do it again, so you figure out a way for him to pay for the tires, one way or another, that is what God does to us when we sin. We are His children.

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Gary Sechler
[FONT=&quot]With knowledge on loan from God[/FONT]

weepingprophet · Sep 7, 2014

LEPIDUS said:

God does this in order to be glorified. Those deeds we do in life have been ordained by God and they are the by-product of our salvation. It is not a judgment to decide salvation, but judgment that gives God the glory for those deeds are ordained by7 God:

Ephesians 2:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

dcontroversal · Sep 7, 2014

Elin said:

I agree and will add...any righteous works done by anyone is done by Jesus dia the Holy Spirit in YOU and it is Christ that does the work and not we ourselves!

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

Kenneth, this is not just bad theology, it is horrible theology. go to the parable of the sower, did Jesus say that any of the soil that would not grow a crop was dug up and burned? no, He said that soil that was properly prepared, would return a good harvest! Who was in charge of preparing the soil? God of course. So God is going to burn up all who have not had time to be properly prepared to accept the seed? I'm glad my God is not yours, but more than that, that no such God as yours exists. He doesn't. You did not understand the parable from Matthew 3:9. And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. We all began as stones, that were not capable of bearing a harvest. When a stone is properly crushed and pulverized, and turned into the good soil that will grow a crop, an excellent harvest will result. Thank God your theology is false, or else you wouldn't be here.

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Gary Sechler
[FONT=&quot]With knowledge on loan from God[/FONT]

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

Flamingspirit said:

Man the false theology that flourishes in this thread is amazing. Yes if we are deserving of death, we die, but most people have not committed any sin that has a death sentence attached to it, and placing a death sentence on stealing a $1.00 candy bar is an outrageous miscarriage of justice, even if it's done on a weekly basis. God has one law that all of His laws are based upon, "do unto others, as you would have them do unto you." The dark side of that being, "as you do, God will see to it, that you will be done unto, by someone else who fails the test of not stealing, until such time as you decide to commit yourself to never stealing again. Please correct your false theology accordingly.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

kennethcadwell said:

Boy the theology of Jesus sure does take a beating in this crowd. once we have been judged by God for a sin, and we have determined, through the experiencing of being sinned against as we have sinned, to never treat someone that way again, yes, the sin is forgiven, and will never darken our memories again, unless we find ourselves sitting in judgment of someone who has sinned in a similar way. Then we will recall it to temper our judgment on another, with compassion. Only someone like Hitler and Musolini, and their cohorts face the second death, which is spiritual death. Our modern Muslim terrorists will also find themselves in that predicament.

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Gary Sechler
[FONT=&quot]With knowledge on loan from God[/FONT]

Sec · Sep 7, 2014

LEPIDUS said:

Ignore Vernon, he's drifting around in a Twilight Zone created by the false prophets. There were two steps needed for atonement for sins, a blood sacrifice which was to feed the victim of the sin, and then restitution for the victims loss. Jesus' sacrifice replaced the need for a blood sacrifice. the Eucharist replaced the shared meal with sinner and victim, and God executes judgment replacing the need for restitution. The judgment of Justification creates a desire in the sinner to never treat someone that way again, and all is forgiven.

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Gary Sechler
[FONT=&quot]With knowledge on loan from God[/FONT]

VCO · Sep 7, 2014

Sec said:

I assume you are referring to this scripture:

Isaiah 10:18 (ESV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] The glory of his forest and of his fruitful land the LORD will destroy, both soul and body, and it will be as when a sick man wastes away.

BUT OUR LORD gives us more details where this will take place:

Matthew 10:28 (NKJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

NOW that word in Math. 10:28 that we translate "destroy", does mean to be totally consumed as if by FIRE.

ONE MORE POINT, you missed. HELL is forever, and nowhere in Either of those verses does it say that the unbeliever's human spirit will be destroyed too, IT WILL BE IN HELL IN TORMENT FOREVER:

Matthew 25:41 (ASV)
[SUP]41 [/SUP] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:

Isaiah 33:14 (NIV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The sinners in Zion are terrified; trembling grips the godless: "Who of us can dwell with the consuming fire? Who of us can dwell with everlasting burning?"

Revelation 21:8 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Revelation 14:9-11 (NKJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, "If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name."

THERE is NO such thing as completely going into NOTHINGNESS. I was saved after three attempts at suicide. If you had come to me during any one of those attempts, and told me that unsaved sinners, "their souls will be allowed to just dissipate and vanish", YOU WOULD HAVE PUSHED ME OVER THE EDGE, and You would have heard the gunshot before you got to your car, and you would have found my brains splattered all over the wall.

PLEASE do not ever tell that theory to ANYONE, especially one who is thinking about suicide. MY WHOLE DESIRE WHILE I HAD THAT PISTOL AGAINST MY HEAD, WAS TO CEASE TO EXIST. It was the SHEAR TERROR of KNOWING that Hell was for real, and that it would last FOREVER, that stopped me from finishing pulling that trigger, both times that I had that pistol against my head. Body and Soul (psyche' in the GreeK), may be consumed by the Fires of Hell, but the unsaved human spirit will be there in torment FOREVER.

just-me · Sep 7, 2014

LEPIDUS said:

Salvation is centered around faith. Faith then becomes the motivator of our deeds. The judgment of God are blessing a cursings. Judgment, therefore is not to be seen only as condemnation.
James 2:18-26
18 Yea, a man may say , Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe , and tremble .
20 But wilt thou know , O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect ?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith , Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified , and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Elin · Sep 7, 2014

SeaBass said:

Saving grace is conditioned only on faith.

Elin · Sep 7, 2014

DiscipleDave said:

The blood of Christ cleanses those who believe in him.

True belief in him produces righteous behavior.

No righteous behavior means there was no true belief; ergo, they are not saved.

But they are not saved because of their lack of good deeds,
they are not saved because of their lack of faith. . .which would have resulted in good deeds.

Elin · Sep 7, 2014

Sec said:

Grace gives us eternal life. Being judged, remakes us into spiritual images of Jesus. Because of God's application of grace and judgment in our past, we don't normally see ourselves of being guilty of sins that were worthy of the death penalty, which is where grace came into play. but when God began judging us, we were similar to the
useless pieces of human vermin that are now found in the Muslim faith.
Most of them are human rejects, who if they don't soon get the idea of compassion and forgiveness, are going to experience the "second death." Where God refuses to save them for
another chance at the kingdom when they die,
and their souls will be allowed to just dissipate and vanish, not being worthy of even returning as pigs or monkeys, something that Muhammad warned them of, but it fell on the ears of a stiff necked people.
That is the reason we have both. Grace gives us eternal life, when we don't deserve it. Judgment slowly makes us into better people who will deserve eternal life.

Pure baloney.

kennethcadwell · Sep 7, 2014

Sec said:

Read the scriptures again.
Matthew 25 shows a different seen of those being sent to eternal punishment, the second group in this chapter are sent to eternal punishment for not doing good deeds toward others in need, not for unbelief.

This goes along with the scripture given in Titus;

Titus 1:16
They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate

JesusIsAll · Sep 7, 2014

Sec said:

Not to change the subject, but how long ago did your lease expire?

VCO · Sep 7, 2014

Elin said:

BUT, even that faith is NOT of ourselves, it was poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit:

Romans 5:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.

just-me · Sep 7, 2014

VCO said:

Yes, faith is a gift of the Spirit.

To another faith by the same Spirit 1 Corinthians 12:9a

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