Why did John Baptize with water?

Adstar · Sep 9, 2022

Well if you read a passage from Paul::

(1 Corinthians 1:12-17) "Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. {13} Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? {14} I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; {15} Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name. {16} And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other. {17} For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

Water baptism has never saved anyone.. If it is anything then it is an outer symbolic sign of an inner baptism that has already happened.. So is there value in performing an outer symbolic baptism? Yes. It's a public statement of Faith in the LORD Jesus..

Lifted_by_the_word · Sep 10, 2022

people had to be convicted of their sins and repent before they receive the free gift on the cross.When people expected Elijah and it was John,you need to look at the story of Elijah and his successor,Elisha.
Elijah was the water and Elisha was the blood.He was the foreshadowing of Jesus.Just read the things Elisha had done.

The cloak of Elijah is actually the temple veil.the veil itself is also in the image of the covenants.When Jesus said it is finished and the temple veil was split, he made a way for us to see his face.He is behind the veil.
If you want to walk into the Holy of Holies and know Jesus,you do that through the word of God.Spirit(you),water,(old covenant)blood,(new covenant)

The 144,000 will have the cloak of Elijah.

Lifted_by_the_word · Sep 10, 2022

Lifted_by_the_word said:

You can see it again in the story of Moses when God places him in the cleft of the rock and covers himself with his hand till he removes it as he passed by.It's Jesus passing by Moses.A cleft is a split.Left is the old covenant and right is the new covenant.Moses was only allowed to see his back parts because he was washed only with the water and not the blood.That means that the hand Jesus used to cover Moses was the left hand.(water)
If you look at the palm of your hands and place them side by side you'll see a line make straight and passover to your right hand.And by doing that you also just made the bible hand sign.The covenants are at the beginning and the end.

John146 · Sep 10, 2022

CorrectiveLens said:

It was a physical show of repentance for God's physical people Israel, preparing the way for their Messiah. They had no understanding of the cross. The Lord's spiritual people, the body of Christ, are spiritually baptized into Christ's body.

Pilgrimshope · Sep 10, 2022

Adstar said:

Paul’s wuote there doesn’t even touch on baptism …. And doesn’t support anything your saying about baptism . the first thing Paul did was get baptized after he believed the gospel like everyone else

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

before the hypergracers distortion they believed what Jesus said and acted in faith

whether you repent and get baptized forst and then after receive the Holy Spirit like this

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭

why did they get baptized ? For remission of sins right ?

“be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,”

did baptism change ? That’s after the cross and this is before

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

hmm it seems like the only thing that changes is now Jesus name is revealed for baptism but it’s function ? Definately not “ symbolic “ but has a function and purpose remission of sins based on what ? Why get baptized ? Because I believe Jesus died for remission of my sins

I believe this

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And so I gladly get baptized in his name because I believe the promise he made it’s an act of faith in Christs death and resurrection

My point is this is all just something you’ve learned from the hyoergrace wraser doctrine that makes anything Important irrelevant because “ grace means nothing else applies “

so of course one’s going to come to this conclusion

“Water baptism has never saved anyone.. If it is anything then it is an outer symbolic sign of an inner baptism that has already happened..”

and will always do that like “communion “

just as you can’t accept what the Bible clearly teaches about baptism you would then do the same thing with this truth

I understand already how you would interpret this also Because of past discussions with you

“For I have received of the Lord that which also I delivered unto you, That the Lord Jesus the same night in which he was betrayed took bread: and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me. After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come. Wherefore whosoever shall eat this bread, and drink this cup of the Lord, unworthily, shall be guilty of the body and blood of the Lord.

But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of that bread, and drink of that cup. For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body. For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭11:23-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

see the hypergrace doctrine can’t accept anything that’s why i don’t really communicate much with those who hold that “interpretation “of the Bible I’m the opposite I think it says what it says to teach us what we need to know

no offense or anything intended but the hyoergrace doctrine is like smoke in my eyes and I have no agreement with the grace eraser doctrine I’m always going to let the Bible say what it says and let that be what I believe about things like baptism , communion and anything else in the gospel

CorrectiveLens · Sep 12, 2022

Pilgrimshope said:

The Christian Jews of the time at first believed that Gentiles were not included in salvation through Jesus Christ, that Christian Gentiles had to be circumcized, where and how to worship, that Gentiles had to obey the Jewish Laws and rituals including the belief that being baptized with water while confessing your sins and repenting, resulted in the forgiveness or remission of sins. That is probably why Jews came from all over to get baptized by John. This belief is contrary to salvation through belief in Christ and is promulgated even now. That is also why in Scripture, Jewish Christians at first felt the need to baptize with water to show repentance. It is God who grants repentance and the water baptism of repentance is not necessary because God already knows. All the baptisms done with water in the New Testament were done by Christian Jews who thought that was the way to show their repentance.

CS1 · Sep 12, 2022

CorrectiveLens said:

the prepare the way of one to come John 1:6-9

6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. 8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9 That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world.

15 John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me [f]is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ”

26 John answered them, saying, “I baptize with water, but there stands One among you whom you do not know. 27 It is He who, coming after me, is preferred before me, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose.”

30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who [k]is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ 31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. 33 I did not know Him, but He who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘Upon whom you see the Spirit descending, and remaining on Him, this is He who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and testified that this is the Son of God.”

GRACE_ambassador · Sep 12, 2022

op: Why did John baptize with water?
Not what I think; What Saith The Scripture?:

1) About Christ:

Joh_1:31 And I knew Him not: but that He should be made

manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.

2) About the nation Of Israel, His people, and requirements for
their priesthood, a "kingdom of priests Unto God" (Exodus 19:6):

a1) they could have "no blemish" (Leviticus 21:21)

a2) Christ and the twelve "healed all in Israel"

(Matthew 4:24; Acts 5:16)

b1) "washing with water"

(Exodus 29:4; Leviticus 8:6; Numbers 8:7)

b2) "Jerusalem, all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,"

(Mat 3:5), came to John's baptism "For the remission of sins, in

the river Jordan" (Mat 3:6; Mar 1:4-5: Luk 3:3, 7:29-30)

c1) "anointing with oil" (Exodus 29:7; Leviticus 8:10-12)

c2) Christ's "anointing With The Holy Spirit" (Acts 2:38)

More here:
Israel's 12 baptisms

GRACE and Peace...

Lanolin · Sep 13, 2022

Because baptising with slime doesnt have the same effect?

Randy4u2c · Oct 8, 2022

My take on it is that John baptized with water, symbolic of washing and cleansing away your sins that you repented for. When Christ was to come, He would baptize you with the Holy Spirit making you a new creation, forgiving your sins, and granting you eternal life. if you believe in God's word. Baptizing today is a witness that you believe Jesus died and was raised up by God to everlasting life. Symbolic of death by going down into the water and raised to life when you are risen out of the water.

Pray_without_ceasing · Oct 8, 2022

CorrectiveLens said:

To give knowledge of salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited them, to give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide our feet into the way of peace.

CorrectiveLens · Oct 11, 2022

Nehemiah6 said:

Greetings brother. Would you kindly provide the scripture which states that water baptism symbolizes death, burial, and resurrection.
Thanks.

FredVB · Oct 11, 2022

There was a long standing tradition in Judaism with submergence with water for being ceremonially washed. John was called and set apart, and used this baptism with a call to everyone who came to repent. That baptism is not necessary among us, that we would be saved. But repentance is necessary, that we would turn in faith in Christ to God to be delivered from sin, its occurrence and its consequences, for salvation with redemption to be in everlasting relationship with God who seeks that with God's creatures.

Nehemiah6 · Oct 11, 2022

CorrectiveLens said:

ROMANS 6: WHAT BAPTISM SIGNIFIES
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

JohnDB · Oct 11, 2022

Old Testament Laws tells us what we need to know about WHY the ordinance of Baptism was created and upheld.

And it is with the Levites. The priests.

Leviticus 8:6, 16:4 & Exodus 40:31.

The common man was not allowed to personally ask God for the remission of his sins or to handle scriptures without a Priest there to actually be the handler of the scriptures. Priests offered the necessary sacrifices, prayed for forgiveness and handled the scriptures...the common man might know the scriptures and indeed the learned them in Bethgashepher (elementary through middle school) . Even the women learned them.

John's Baptism allowed the common man to directly ask God for forgiveness of his sins without the formerly requisite offerings. Deuteronomy 16:16

And instead of the customary exclamation of "Know The Lord" which was used extensively by the common man when encountering someone committing a sin the baptized individuals could now recite and explain the scriptures to the offensive individual.

Jews to this day have all sorts of pithy expressions which bandy about the scriptures but do not quote them directly...unless they are a Rabbi. Even then a Rabbi won't quote scriptures to a Goyim.

So...that was the reason why John used water baptism.

Water Baptisms in/around something other than a Mikveh (which had a laundry list of regulations) was always done by a water source that was flowing(double entendre with "living") or a spring which served the same function in Jewish life.

A Baptism usually had another role of significance in Jewish life of an ordinance performed as someone joined into a particular sect of Judaism. The Essenes, which John was raised by after his parents deceased, practiced baptisms more than any other sect...often on a weekly basis. They also strictly wore white. (John wore camel hair...tan)

DJT_47 · Oct 27, 2022

ResidentAlien said:

It was actually the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins (Luke 3:3), exactly like Acts 2:38 except Acts 2:38 is in the name of Jesus Christ.

Luke 3:3

3And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

mailmandan · Oct 27, 2022

Matthew 3:11 - As for me, (John) I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.

Now was this baptism "for" (in order to obtain) repentance? or was it "for" (in regards to/on the basis of) repentance? Obviously the latter.

Franc254 · Oct 28, 2022

John baptized with water because

John 1:29-31 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is He of whom I said, ‘After me comes a Man who [k]is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ 31 I did not know Him; but that He should be revealed to Israel, therefore I came baptizing with water.”

CorrectiveLens · Oct 31, 2022

The Jewish Roots of Christian Baptism
Taken from the School of Biblical and Jewish Studies
Jewish Awareness Ministries
Jewish Baptism was practiced long before the New Testament. The idea of dipping, plunging, or immersing comes from the Jewish word "taval". In the New Testament we have the Greek word "baptizo". They mean the same thing. Taval is used in 2Kings5 when Elisha told Naaman to "wash" or "dip" himself 7 times in the Jordan River.

The Hebrew word "Mikveh" refers to the place where the baptism is done. It is used in Gen 1:10 for "gathering together of the waters", in Exodus 7: 19 for "pools of water".
Leviticus 11 cites all the different land and sea creatures that are unclean.They are not to be eaten and their carcasses are not to be touched. To do so will cause the person to become ritually unclean. Chapters 12 through 15 explain how the children of Israel become unclean. Anyone touching an unclean person also becomes unclean. Verse 36 of Chapter 11 is a shining light amidst all this uncleaness. Nevertheless a fountain or pit, wherein there is plenty of water, shall be clean; The phrase " plenty of water" is the Hebrew word "mikveh". There came out of this passage a practice , and a tradition, and a teaching within Judaism that is Levitically biblical. If you had something that was unclean, you can take it to a fountain or pit wherein there was a body of water, you can wash it, and even though it might still have some germs or residue of the dead carcass, the item will become ritually clean before God.

The mikveh is used for ritual purification. The idea of the Mikveh and the idea of baptism is an outward expression of an inward truth. If you want to make something clean before God, it wasn't the water that made it clean before God. It was the persons obedience and desire to be ritually clean before God. Numerous mikvehs consisting of rectangular pools with steps have been excavated in and around the Temple. In modern Judaism it is common for mikvehs to be constructed in synagogues because baptism is still a common practice in the Jewish religion. Mikvehs are used in Jewish conversions, before marriages, women's monthly cycles, to commemorate personal transitions, to mark changes or challenges, to combat illnesses, to prepare spiritually for the shabbat and Yom Kippur ( the day of Atonement), or before an ordination.

John the Baptist was preparing the people's hearts for the Messiah. He is crying out for them to get ready, for them to repent because the Messiah is coming. That is the reason why people were coming to him from all the regions about the Jordan and were baptized by him as they confessed their sins. The context of the mikveh had to do with ritual uncleaness. What they were doing in coming to John was getting ritually clean by confessing their sins ( their uncleaness )and repenting to get right with God because the Messiah was coming. The water did not cleanse them of their sins because salvation in both the old testament and the new testament era always comes by faith and so these actions did not bring them salvation, but their hearts were shown through their actions to prove their repentance. They ritually bathed just like it spoke of in Leviticus as the mikveh. In Matthew 3: 7-8, the fruit meet for repentance is some type of action, some type of outward evidence that you have a repentant heart and that is what the water baptism did. It showed outwardly, publicly what was going on in their hearts (on the inside ). That is similar to a believing Christian getting water baptized. Neither the water nor the action of getting baptized will save you. Salvation only comes through faith in Jesus Christ. What occurs in the process of salvation? 1) The person recognizes that he is a sinner, is unworthy, repents, and turns to God for forgiveness. 2) Through the process of preaching, Jesus and salvation through Him is revealed. When he believes, his sins are forgiven, and he receives the gift of the Holy Spirit which perfects his heart by filling it with love. When the motivation of your thoughts and actions is love for God first and love for everyone else second, you are walking in the Spirit and obeying the Spirit of the Law.

Magenta · Oct 31, 2022

SomeDisciple said:

Cut off your hand, gouge out your eye, if it offends you (causes you to sin).

Why did John Baptize with water?

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