-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
- Status
first off, it is an all inclusive commandment. secondly, some might think that it it the old commandment, to love our neighbor as ourself, but this is false, because jesus is the expression of god's love for the world, and we are to love each other just as he has loved us. this love comes through us only by the holy spirit.
G
If I may be so bold as to reply to this thread, since I am a Sabbath observer. I know I am a newbie, but none the less ... this is a topic that lies very close to my heart.
I have read the entire thread, and no one actually acknowledges the fact that God COMMANDED to keep a DAY holy.
Yes, Jesus is our Sabbath rest. He is the fulfillment of the law. He is the meaning why the types and shadows were given to us. But God commanded us to keep the DAY holy, not the idea, not the shadow or type. THE DAY.
And before someone says that it was a command given to the Jews. Think again! The commandments were given to the ISRAELITES, they were not jews by then. They had not entered the promise land by then. In fact, even before the commandment was written down in STONE (shows what level of importance it had to God) God showed the israelites HOW to observe the Sabbath. Remember the manna and quail?? God taught them before He confirmed it in STONE (with His own finger).
In fact, this command was given even BEFORE then. This command has it's origin in the Garden of Eden. Gen 2:3 says "And God BLESSED the seventh day and made it holy,....". HE (GOD) made it HOLY. I often wonder, how it is that God says something and then we humans (His creation) turns around and says "oh, but this or that replaces what God says". The God I serve does not change His character or His plan, like us humans do. He created a day of rest FOR US, and made it HOLY and there are many reasons why. Yes, the word Sabbath means rest/ peace. Because God is outside of time, He KNEW that we were going to be caught up in a RAT RACE, the way we are. This is ONE of the reasons He created a day of rest for us. A day to rest from the world. To withdraw to a 'cool oasis', and to spend time with Him and replenish our souls with the Living Water He is and to spend time doing His work. Visit the sick, the prisoners, the elderly - making a difference in this chaotic world we live in. Letting our light shine.
I guess many will say "oh but this is what we are suppose to do everyday". And yes, it is. But the reality is, we don't. Simply because we don't have the time. God created a time for us. THANK YOU, JESUS!! In fact, He created a SPECIFIC day for us. Not just any day, not the day we chose - the day HE chose and sanctified. It's all about HIM!! ( .... or it should be)!
Jesus is our Sabbath rest, I agree with this wholeheartedly!! And I am so thankful to Him for it. But we should not neglect to hear the voice of God calling us to obedience in the smallest thing. This may not be a salvation issue, but I can't help but remember the words of Jesus in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command". Jesus is GOD and He is the Alpha and Omega - let's not forget who the author of the Sabbath is. Let's adhere to His call to obedience.
I have read the entire thread, and no one actually acknowledges the fact that God COMMANDED to keep a DAY holy.
Yes, Jesus is our Sabbath rest. He is the fulfillment of the law. He is the meaning why the types and shadows were given to us. But God commanded us to keep the DAY holy, not the idea, not the shadow or type. THE DAY.
And before someone says that it was a command given to the Jews. Think again! The commandments were given to the ISRAELITES, they were not jews by then. They had not entered the promise land by then. In fact, even before the commandment was written down in STONE (shows what level of importance it had to God) God showed the israelites HOW to observe the Sabbath. Remember the manna and quail?? God taught them before He confirmed it in STONE (with His own finger).
In fact, this command was given even BEFORE then. This command has it's origin in the Garden of Eden. Gen 2:3 says "And God BLESSED the seventh day and made it holy,....". HE (GOD) made it HOLY. I often wonder, how it is that God says something and then we humans (His creation) turns around and says "oh, but this or that replaces what God says". The God I serve does not change His character or His plan, like us humans do. He created a day of rest FOR US, and made it HOLY and there are many reasons why. Yes, the word Sabbath means rest/ peace. Because God is outside of time, He KNEW that we were going to be caught up in a RAT RACE, the way we are. This is ONE of the reasons He created a day of rest for us. A day to rest from the world. To withdraw to a 'cool oasis', and to spend time with Him and replenish our souls with the Living Water He is and to spend time doing His work. Visit the sick, the prisoners, the elderly - making a difference in this chaotic world we live in. Letting our light shine.
I guess many will say "oh but this is what we are suppose to do everyday". And yes, it is. But the reality is, we don't. Simply because we don't have the time. God created a time for us. THANK YOU, JESUS!! In fact, He created a SPECIFIC day for us. Not just any day, not the day we chose - the day HE chose and sanctified. It's all about HIM!! ( .... or it should be)!
Jesus is our Sabbath rest, I agree with this wholeheartedly!! And I am so thankful to Him for it. But we should not neglect to hear the voice of God calling us to obedience in the smallest thing. This may not be a salvation issue, but I can't help but remember the words of Jesus in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command". Jesus is GOD and He is the Alpha and Omega - let's not forget who the author of the Sabbath is. Let's adhere to His call to obedience.
Those who insist that we keep the Sabbath are like the Judaizers who caused Paul so much grief in Antioch. This question was settled by the Apostles at the Jerusalem conference. A letter was penned to the church at Antioch, letting them know that they were not under the Mosaic Law (10 commandments).
Acts 15: 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23 With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
This letter was intended to put to rest the divisive opinion of those Jews who wished to force a law which was done away with onto the Gentiles. The part that was imposed was actually the Noahic covenant. The Mosaic covenant is done away with (fulfilled).
Mathew 5: 17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Definition of fulfill from thefreedictionary.com:
ful·fill also ful·fil (f
l-f
l
)
tr.v. ful·filled, ful·fill·ing, ful·fills also ful·fils 1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.
Do not be like the Pharisees and impose burdens on people that are beyond that which is required by God.
Acts 15: 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23 With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
This letter was intended to put to rest the divisive opinion of those Jews who wished to force a law which was done away with onto the Gentiles. The part that was imposed was actually the Noahic covenant. The Mosaic covenant is done away with (fulfilled).
Mathew 5: 17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Definition of fulfill from thefreedictionary.com:
ful·fill also ful·fil (f
tr.v. ful·filled, ful·fill·ing, ful·fills also ful·fils 1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.
Do not be like the Pharisees and impose burdens on people that are beyond that which is required by God.
Those who insist that we keep the Sabbath are like the Judaizers who caused Paul so much grief in Antioch. This question was settled by the Apostles at the Jerusalem conference. A letter was penned to the church at Antioch, letting them know that they were not under the Mosaic Law (10 commandments).
Acts 15: 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23 With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
This letter was intended to put to rest the divisive opinion of those Jews who wished to force a law which was done away with onto the Gentiles. The part that was imposed was actually the Noahic covenant. The Mosaic covenant is done away with (fulfilled).
Mathew 5: 17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Definition of fulfill from thefreedictionary.com:
ful·fill also ful·fil (f
l-f
l
)
tr.v. ful·filled, ful·fill·ing, ful·fills also ful·fils 1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.
Do not be like the Pharisees and impose burdens on people that are beyond that which is required by God.
Acts 15: 22 Then the apostles and elders, with the whole church, decided to choose some of their own men and send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They chose Judas (called Barsabbas) and Silas, two men who were leaders among the brothers. 23 With them they sent the following letter: The apostles and elders, your brothers, To the Gentile believers in Antioch, Syria and Cilicia: Greetings. 24 We have heard that some went out from us without our authorization and disturbed you, troubling your minds by what they said. 25 So we all agreed to choose some men and send them to you with our dear friends Barnabas and Paul-- 26 men who have risked their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 27 Therefore we are sending Judas and Silas to confirm by word of mouth what we are writing. 28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: 29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
This letter was intended to put to rest the divisive opinion of those Jews who wished to force a law which was done away with onto the Gentiles. The part that was imposed was actually the Noahic covenant. The Mosaic covenant is done away with (fulfilled).
Mathew 5: 17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
Definition of fulfill from thefreedictionary.com:
ful·fill also ful·fil (f
tr.v. ful·filled, ful·fill·ing, ful·fills also ful·fils 1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.
Do not be like the Pharisees and impose burdens on people that are beyond that which is required by God.
I tell you the truth, until Heaven and earth disappear not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen will by any means disappear from the law until all is accomplished
Only some say this means the whole law must be followed. Obviously that cannot be the case. As you corrctly say the Apostles at Jerusalem did not demand this
G
First of all, the judaizers who caused Paul so much grief in Antioch (as superdave says) was insisting that the new believers be CIRCUMCISED.
I think it is important if we want to quote scripture, that we do it in context. Acts 15:1 starts off with these words: Some men came fown from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved" This brought Paul and Barnabas in sharp dispute with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this.
The 10 commandments ARE NOT the Mosaic Laws. The mosaic laws were stored on the OUTSIDE of the ark of the covenant (signifying their temporal status) and the 10 commandments were stored on the INSIDE of the ark (signifying the permanent status they have). What the letter from Jerusalem to Antioch DID do was to clarify which of the laws (health and moral) was to be adhered to. It was never even ADDRESSING the 10 commandments, because that was not the dispute. The dispute was over CIRCUMCISSION which was a moral law.
I agree, it was to put to rest that ideaology which was done away with - THE CIRCUMCISSION.
Jesus said ..Matt5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have NOT come to abolish them but to fulfill them. It would seem that JESUS says He has not come to do away with it. So I will rather listen to Jesus and what He teaches than listen to the world and what they teach.
The meaning of the GREEK word for FULFILL, that is used in the passage above is
ginomai
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made
Let us not focus on one meaning, but let us focus on the bigger picture of what is being taught here.
Jesus DID come to fulfill the LAW ... He came to give it its PROPER MEANING. Not to do away with it. The remainder of that scripture reads as follows:
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Isa 58:13,14 .."If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the Lord, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the Lord has spoken.
To God be the Glory. Forever and ever. AMEN
I think it is important if we want to quote scripture, that we do it in context. Acts 15:1 starts off with these words: Some men came fown from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the brothers: "Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved" This brought Paul and Barnabas in sharp dispute with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this.
The 10 commandments ARE NOT the Mosaic Laws. The mosaic laws were stored on the OUTSIDE of the ark of the covenant (signifying their temporal status) and the 10 commandments were stored on the INSIDE of the ark (signifying the permanent status they have). What the letter from Jerusalem to Antioch DID do was to clarify which of the laws (health and moral) was to be adhered to. It was never even ADDRESSING the 10 commandments, because that was not the dispute. The dispute was over CIRCUMCISSION which was a moral law.
I agree, it was to put to rest that ideaology which was done away with - THE CIRCUMCISSION.
Jesus said ..Matt5:17 Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have NOT come to abolish them but to fulfill them. It would seem that JESUS says He has not come to do away with it. So I will rather listen to Jesus and what He teaches than listen to the world and what they teach.
The meaning of the GREEK word for FULFILL, that is used in the passage above is
ginomai
1) to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being
2) to become, i.e. to come to pass, happen
a) of events
3) to arise, appear in history, come upon the stage
a) of men appearing in public
4) to be made, finished
a) of miracles, to be performed, wrought
5) to become, be made
Let us not focus on one meaning, but let us focus on the bigger picture of what is being taught here.
Jesus DID come to fulfill the LAW ... He came to give it its PROPER MEANING. Not to do away with it. The remainder of that scripture reads as follows:
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Isa 58:13,14 .."If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the Lord, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the Lord has spoken.
To God be the Glory. Forever and ever. AMEN
Can I ask you what your interpretatoion of Isiaihs words are
Bind up the testimony, seal up the law among my disciples Isiaih8:16
Also
Your covenant with death will be annulled
your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isiaih28:18
In regards to the Ten Commandments. My understanding is that the law was one 'whole law'
And the Apostle Paul said he could not obey the Ten Commandments when he tried to follow them, the result for him was disaster if you read the passage in Rom ch7
Bind up the testimony, seal up the law among my disciples Isiaih8:16
Also
Your covenant with death will be annulled
your agreement with the grave will not stand
Isiaih28:18
In regards to the Ten Commandments. My understanding is that the law was one 'whole law'
And the Apostle Paul said he could not obey the Ten Commandments when he tried to follow them, the result for him was disaster if you read the passage in Rom ch7
G
I neglected to comment on this section of the post.
How can something which was created as rest be a burden? Since when is rest a burden to anyone? Rest has never been a burden in my life. And I am sure when God created the day for rest, He didn't intend it to be a burden but a delight.
Further more, if God did not require it, why did He write in STONE with His own FINGER ... 'REMEMBER the Sabbath Day" ?
ISA 58:13, 14 .. "If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the Lord, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the Lord has spoken.
We serve an AWESOME, LOVING God, who cares for us - very much!!!
How can something which was created as rest be a burden? Since when is rest a burden to anyone? Rest has never been a burden in my life. And I am sure when God created the day for rest, He didn't intend it to be a burden but a delight.
Further more, if God did not require it, why did He write in STONE with His own FINGER ... 'REMEMBER the Sabbath Day" ?
ISA 58:13, 14 .. "If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the Lord's holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the Lord, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob." The mouth of the Lord has spoken.
We serve an AWESOME, LOVING God, who cares for us - very much!!!
The part of the verse you quoted to look at is (until all is accomplished). If I promise to pay you $20 at some future date, but don't say when, that promise is binding forever. However, if I then pay you the $20, then the promise is fulfilled, or accomplished. Can you then say that I still owe you the money?
The Law of Moses was meant to point and prepare the people for the coming of Jesus Christ, our Messiah. God promised that if we obeyed His laws, that He would always be faithful to us and to be our God. God knew that we would be unable to obey His law perfectly, so He set in motion a plan to pay our part of the debt for us. This culminated in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, to pay our debt for us. Once that debt was paid in full, in Jesus on the cross, the contract was completed or fulfilled, or accomplished.
Acts 15: 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
The Jews were unable to fulfil their part of the covenant, i.e. obeying the Law, so Jesus sacrificed Himself to fulfil it for them. If the Jews were unable to follow the law perfectly, why impose it on the Gentiles? In any case, if a contract is satisfied or accomplished, then it is no longer binding.
We now have a new covenant which requires our faith and obedience to Jesus Christ, and not to the Law of Moses.
The Law of Moses was meant to point and prepare the people for the coming of Jesus Christ, our Messiah. God promised that if we obeyed His laws, that He would always be faithful to us and to be our God. God knew that we would be unable to obey His law perfectly, so He set in motion a plan to pay our part of the debt for us. This culminated in the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, to pay our debt for us. Once that debt was paid in full, in Jesus on the cross, the contract was completed or fulfilled, or accomplished.
Acts 15: 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? 11 No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
The Jews were unable to fulfil their part of the covenant, i.e. obeying the Law, so Jesus sacrificed Himself to fulfil it for them. If the Jews were unable to follow the law perfectly, why impose it on the Gentiles? In any case, if a contract is satisfied or accomplished, then it is no longer binding.
We now have a new covenant which requires our faith and obedience to Jesus Christ, and not to the Law of Moses.
G
you had obviously not read what I posted about the law in the previous post. Therefor I will ask you to please go back there and re-read what I posted.
Jesus overcame death. He has ARISEN!! Jesus defeated death and the grave! Hallelujah!!!!!
Maybe the words of Jesus will help you here ... Mat 22:34 -40 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Jesus made a CLEAR distinction between the law and the Commandments.
I suppose I can only answer you with what Paul also said in the SAME chapter:
Romans 7:12, 13 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
Jesus overcame death. He has ARISEN!! Jesus defeated death and the grave! Hallelujah!!!!!
Maybe the words of Jesus will help you here ... Mat 22:34 -40 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Jesus made a CLEAR distinction between the law and the Commandments.
I suppose I can only answer you with what Paul also said in the SAME chapter:
Romans 7:12, 13 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. Did that which is good, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through what was good, so that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
I completely agree the law itself is holy and good, but sin used it to condemn Paul. He said
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death.
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been releassed from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the4 old way of the written code Rom7:5&6
For when we were controlled by the sinful nature the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in our bodies so that we bore fruit for death.
But now, by dying to what once bound us we have been releassed from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit and not in the4 old way of the written code Rom7:5&6
It is you who take things out of context. Circumcision IS the law and represented the Law to the Judaizers. The Mosaic covenant includes the 10 commandments. If they were only discussing circumcision, then why in verse 15:10 does Paul speak of a yoke that even the Jews could not bear? The Jews had no problem with circumcision. All Jews were circumcised. The following is the dedication of the Mosaic covenant.
Exodus 24: 1 Then he said to Moses, "Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, 2 but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him." 3 When Moses went and told the people all the LORD's words and laws, they responded with one voice, "Everything the LORD has said we will do." 4 Moses then wrote down everything the LORD had said. {including the 10 commandments} He got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, "We will do everything the LORD has said; we will obey." 8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words."
Hebrews 9: 15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. 16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."
Exodus 24: 1 Then he said to Moses, "Come up to the Lord, you and Aaron, Nadab and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel. You are to worship at a distance, 2 but Moses alone is to approach the Lord; the others must not come near. And the people may not come up with him." 3 When Moses went and told the people all the LORD's words and laws, they responded with one voice, "Everything the LORD has said we will do." 4 Moses then wrote down everything the LORD had said. {including the 10 commandments} He got up early the next morning and built an altar at the foot of the mountain and set up twelve stone pillars representing the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 Then he sent young Israelite men, and they offered burnt offerings and sacrificed young bulls as fellowship offerings to the Lord. 6 Moses took half of the blood and put it in bowls, and the other half he sprinkled on the altar. 7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it to the people. They responded, "We will do everything the LORD has said; we will obey." 8 Moses then took the blood, sprinkled it on the people and said, "This is the blood of the covenant that the LORD has made with you in accordance with all these words."
Hebrews 9: 15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance--now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant. 16 In the case of a will, it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every commandment of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, "This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep."
To me there is an under used scripture
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Nott at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom3:31
Also
For sin shall not ber your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14
To Paul I believe the law caused the sinful passions in him(or at least increased them) So as he said. He died to the law. Sins power is the law. 1Cor15:56
But because he died to the law, sin lost its power in his life, and by living a life of faith in Christ and the Holy Spirits power he actually upheld the law that he could not uphold when he was under it
So strictly speaking we are not under the law(including the commandments) But by not being under it we do actually uphold it. Does this make sense to you?
Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Nott at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom3:31
Also
For sin shall not ber your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom6:14
To Paul I believe the law caused the sinful passions in him(or at least increased them) So as he said. He died to the law. Sins power is the law. 1Cor15:56
But because he died to the law, sin lost its power in his life, and by living a life of faith in Christ and the Holy Spirits power he actually upheld the law that he could not uphold when he was under it
So strictly speaking we are not under the law(including the commandments) But by not being under it we do actually uphold it. Does this make sense to you?
Last edited:
G
There is a lot of banter and a lot of people defending why they believe what they believe, but when I read:
Romans 14: 5
5. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
This passage tells us that we all have a unique relationship with the Holy Spirit, and that some people to the glory and honor of the Father will keep the Sabbath day as holy and others will not, and if each do it to the glory of their Father in heaven, then who are we to change the other person.
God bless you all!
Romans 14: 5
5. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
This passage tells us that we all have a unique relationship with the Holy Spirit, and that some people to the glory and honor of the Father will keep the Sabbath day as holy and others will not, and if each do it to the glory of their Father in heaven, then who are we to change the other person.
God bless you all!
It is not required of us to keep the Sabbath, for that covenant has been fulfilled. We can exercise our Christian liberty to choose to do that which is not sinful. It is not sinful to follow the 10 commandments, if any can do it. It is not sinful to follow the Saturday sabbath. That is a choice that can be made and not be at odds with God. However, it is sinful to try to impose that onto others as if it were a binding commitment under the new covenant, when in fact it is not.
- Status