Why im not a calvinist (but want to be)

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Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#141
Feb 10, 2017
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#141
I knew the but's would appear...:p
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#142
#142
Locutus said:
I knew the but's would appear...:p
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Okay, let's go with your interpretation on the verse.

If God desires every person should come to repentance, is he incapable of bringing what he desires to happen? Because we read, "Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases" (Ps. 115:3). You now have a condradiction. We both must agree that "whatever the Lord pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps" (Ps. 135:6). Even Job said, "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2).

So what's going on?
 
Issachar92

Issachar92

Banned
#143
Jan 21, 2017
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28
0
#143
Spokenpassage said:
Okay, let's go with your interpretation on the verse.

If God desires every person should come to repentance, is he incapable of bringing what he desires to happen? Because we read, "Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases" (Ps. 115:3). You now have a condradiction. We both must agree that "whatever the Lord pleases, He does, In heaven and in earth, in the seas and in all deeps" (Ps. 135:6). Even Job said, "I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted" (Job 42:2).

So what's going on?
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No contradiction no problem. He desires all to be saved, but all are not saved because He has given us FREE WILL. (you can add Sovereignly chosen to give us free will, yall like the word sovereign so)
 
V

valiant

Senior Member
#144
Mar 22, 2015
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#144
Locutus said:
1 Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

I'm sure Calvin had a but, but!! for this scripture.
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I should hope he had. A look at the context shows that it means 'all kinds of men'.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#145
#145
Issachar92 said:
No contradiction no problem. He desires all to be saved, but all are not saved because He has given us FREE WILL. (you can add Sovereignly chosen to give us free will, yall like the word sovereign so)
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How do you have free will when the Lord Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin" (John 8:34)? Slaves aren't free, Christ came to set us free from sin's dominion and power, but before that we are held captive and condemned in it.
 
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valiant

Senior Member
#146
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
124
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#146
Issachar92 said:
No contradiction no problem. He desires all to be saved, but all are not saved because He has given us FREE WILL. (you can add Sovereignly chosen to give us free will, yall like the word sovereign so)
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no one has yet given me a verse from Scripture which says we have freewill.

We choose on the basis of our prejudices, upbringing, etc.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#149
#149
Someone who opposes election explain to me this passage...

"So the Jews gathered around him and said to him, 'How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Christ, tell us plainly.' Jesus answered them, 'I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.'"

- John 10:24-30

Jesus could have said, "You are not among my sheep, because you do not believe." But instead he said, "You do not believe because you are not among my sheep."
 
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Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#150
Feb 10, 2017
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#150
Of course he know his sheep, that's all part of Omniscience which I doubt any Christian would deny, but that does not validate Calvin's claims.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#151
#151
Locutus said:
Of course he know his sheep, that's all part of Omniscience which I doubt any Christian would deny, but that does not validate Calvin's claims.
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In this context he knows them personally, not merely their existence.

But you avoided my highlights, where Jesus said they did not believe for the reason being not his sheep.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#152
Feb 10, 2017
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#152
Your "highlights" are covered in my response - you need to point out why it wasn't.
 
Issachar92

Issachar92

Banned
#154
Jan 21, 2017
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#154
Spokenpassage said:
How do you have free will when the Lord Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin" (John 8:34)? Slaves aren't free, Christ came to set us free from sin's dominion and power, but before that we are held captive and condemned in it.
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Another easy one. You are a slave to WHOM YOU OBEY.
Romans 6:16
[FONT=&quot]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?[/FONT]
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#155
#155
Issachar92 said:
Another easy one. You are a slave to WHOM YOU OBEY.
Romans 6:16
[FONT=&quot]Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?[/FONT]
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Affirmation to Total Depravity, you obey your inward corruption
 
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V

valiant

Senior Member
#157
Mar 22, 2015
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#157
Locutus said:
Of course he know his sheep, that's all part of Omniscience which I doubt any Christian would deny, but that does not validate Calvin's claims.
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I you do not know the difference between to know about and to know personally you ae not well versed in Scripture.
 
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Spokenpassage

Guest
#158
#158
Wait! Isscar you have not quoted the rest!

"But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness."

vv. 17, 18

Wow, haha!
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#160
Feb 10, 2017
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#160
I've been predestined to wash me car .....so it's off to wash I go, heigh ho, heigh ho...:p
 
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